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Topic: Raw Milk
2 Like(s)   


Beajulsha

3/21/2012 9:51:38 AM
Member since:
Nov 2008
Total posts:349
Raw Milk

I am wondering if there is anyone who knows where to find non-homogenized, low-temp-pasteurized cows or goat milk.  
 
I am exploring different milk alternatives

 
 
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acidbasement

3/21/2012 10:40:22 AM
Member since:
Aug 2011
Total posts:457
.

According to this story, you might be able to get it if you own part of a cow in a co-op situation: http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2009/01/27/f-health-raw-milk.html  
 
Probably provincially regulated though, which could mean convincing a farmer to go to court to argue the same thing as was argued in Ontario. Good luck.

katwalk1909

3/21/2012 2:53:33 PM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:7088
Two Farm Kids

I have a Litre of Kefir from Two Farm Kids that I use on my cereal instead of milk.  
 
There are numerous sources for Goat Milk which is closer to human breast milk than cow milk and is easier to digest but still full of nutrients that milk provides.  
 

gtdmilliontoone

4/6/2012 2:04:34 PM
Member since:
Jan 2012
Total posts:44
raw milk

I have knowledge of raw milk  
 
call 721-3664

DRR

4/8/2012 11:09:05 PM
Member since:
Jan 2010
Total posts:34
Raw milk

Goats milk is available at Safeways, Sobeys and Coops under the Oak Island Acres Goat Dairy Ltd. label. To be sold it must be pasteurised. It's supplied fresh to the stores each week, sold in 2 litre containers.

The quiet one

4/9/2012 12:27:21 AM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:864
Raw milk

Is unpasturized so you get the good and bad bacteria however to be sold it must be pasteurized. Asking a dairy farmer to sell raw milk is putting the farm at risk for fines and/ or losing its Manitoba milk producers permit. Raw milk sales ( and cheese )were clamped down on (effectively) in the 90's  
 
Edited by The quiet one, 2012-04-09 00:30:14

don brown

4/9/2012 8:04:26 AM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4341
Sad fact

It is sort of a sad fact that if you want to drink raw milk you will likely have to buy a piece of property, buy a cow and milk it yourself, which to me is complete nonsense.  
 
In the 90's there was this big push against the sale of raw milk,and I'm still not sure who was doing all the pushing, was it the milk marketing board, was it the health department or was it revenue Canada, really I don't think that anyone really came forward and it was up to the individual to guess.  
 
If it was a health safety issue, what does that say about the dairies that are producing milk, does it say that they are not producing milk in a sanitary way, I highly doubt that. By making it illegal to sell raw milk to people it may have forced people to the alternative of milking their own cow which would be more of a threat to a persons health than buying milk from a dairy that is operated under strict standards.  
 
I apologize for my rant about this but government allows the sale of so many products that are truly dangerous to our health and yet something that is good for us we are not allowed to buy because of safety concerns.

Flutterby

4/9/2012 9:29:12 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1041
In my fridge!

  
The quiet one said "Is unpasturized so you get the good and bad bacteria however to be sold it must be pasteurized. Asking a dairy farmer to sell raw milk is putting the farm at risk for fines and/ or losing its Manitoba milk producers permit. Raw milk sales ( and cheese )were clamped down on (effectively) in the 90's  
 
Edited by The quiet one, 2012-04-09 00:30:14"

If you want unpasteurized cheese, you can buy it legally if it is aged past 60 days and has been stored or aged at the correct temperatures. By this time, the bad bacteria that may have been in it will have been killed off by the acidity of the cheese. You can find unpasteurized cheese at Two Farm Kids and in Superstore. PC makes a great unpasteurized cheddar in mild, medium and old. There is no modified milk ingredients in it all all...just real milk products. It is good stuff and aside from homemade, is our first choice. It may cost more, but you are also paying for real ingredients, not cheap unhealthy ingredients like most contain (talking about modified milk ingredients, specifically). So if you wish to buy raw milk, but can't legally, you can at least legally get unpasteurized cheese.  
 
Unfortunately, scoopie, no one in MB can legally sell raw milk, although a lot still "secretly" do. We are fortunate to have a bit of land and find a good Jersey. We have been discussing the possibility of getting a milking goat as well for teaching how to milk, but haven't fully decided yet. If we could legally sell you some milk, we would. But unfortunately, we can't as the law stands. We tend to use up all of the milk anyway through drinking, cheese making, making pudding, baking, ice cream, sour cream, yogurt, etc. We make good use of what we get. The excess, if there is any, goes to our other animals.  
 
I would not want to ever go back to bought milk. With raw, I have lost weight that does not come back and enjoy the flavor that much more. With bought, I gained weight. It has also saved our family a lot of money. We have found as well that the bought milk goes rancid, the raw goes sour, which of course is a testament to the contents and also the lack of other things in the milk.  
 
After researching more on the how raw milk can affect weight loss, I found that it comes from the lack of change of size of fat molecules that comes along with homogenization which makes it hard for your body to absorb and digest. Also, pasteurization kills all of the enzymes needed to digest milk properly, but when milk contains these, your body can digest it properly and so it can be used in the way it was intended. Pasteurization kills both the good and bad (the test for effective pasteurization is the total lack of any enzymes), leaving the processed milk open to growing bad bacteria with no checks or balances that the raw milk naturally has. I thought that that was very interesting. I have read this in many places, but it was most clearly explained at a goat site that I recently viewed. Pasteurization is not fully effective in killing all bad bacteria either, as is widely believed. Some still live through the process, but no good bacteria does. There is a lot more said on the site, but I was specifically researching the connection with weight loss and also goat information. Here is the site if you want to read more: <:A target="_blank" HREF="http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/rawmilk.htm">:http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/rawmilk.htm<:/A>:  
 
Edited by Flutterby, 2012-04-09 09:31:57

Flutterby

4/9/2012 10:05:01 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1041
...

  
don brown said "It is sort of a sad fact that if you want to drink raw milk you will likely have to buy a piece of property, buy a cow and milk it yourself, which to me is complete nonsense.  
 
In the 90's there was this big push against the sale of raw milk,and I'm still not sure who was doing all the pushing, was it the milk marketing board, was it the health department or was it revenue Canada, really I don't think that anyone really came forward and it was up to the individual to guess.  
 
If it was a health safety issue, what does that say about the dairies that are producing milk, does it say that they are not producing milk in a sanitary way, I highly doubt that. By making it illegal to sell raw milk to people it may have forced people to the alternative of milking their own cow which would be more of a threat to a persons health than buying milk from a dairy that is operated under strict standards.  
 
I apologize for my rant about this but government allows the sale of so many products that are truly dangerous to our health and yet something that is good for us we are not allowed to buy because of safety concerns. "

I just wanted to quote only part of your post, but am unsure how to go about that. :S  
 
I wanted to address being forced to milk your own cow as being more of a threat to a persons health than buying from a dairy, which is not quite accurate.  
 
First of all, a lot more rural people had cows at that point. Many sold them off because they could no longer use the sale of the milk and cream to support the cost of them having one or more cows. It was a cruel hit to many small farms and farm families who did rely on their sales of clean, safe, raw milk to help support their families. I'm not saying they all followed safe practices, but many did and got hit unfairly by the legislation.  
 
I know of people on both sides of the producer spectrum, dairy producers and private that have great sanitary practices, and those who do not. It is all in the cleanliness of the barn, health of the cow, how the milk is handled from beginning to end (including the cleanliness of all the equipment from pails to milk machines, to storage, etc.) and what temperature the milk is even stored at in your fridge. The ideal temp. is between 0* and 4*C. Most people have their fridge at too high a temperature. It has no bearing on what setting it is at (I've heard..."Mine is at the 4 setting which is cold, so I am okay"...things like that). It is the temperature, not the setting that is important. So, safety is not only the producer's responsibility, it is also up to the consumer.  
 
Today there is enough good information in books and online about safety and handling of raw milk, there is no excuse for bad practices no matter who you are.  
 
I do agree with you on the rest of your post. It is just too bad that they punished the farming sector by outlawing these sales.

new here

4/9/2012 10:53:26 AM
Member since:
Oct 2010
Total posts:169
We have a dairy and I know it is ILLEGAL

to sell our raw milk. In the 90s we had many neighbors buying from us. Our industry is striclty monitored and I doubt there are any unsanitary barns...we get checked yearly as well our milk is tested every pickup for quality issues and you find out fast if there is something wrong! We have so much more paper work and guidelines in past 5 yrs that many have quit instead of being forced into HASCIP.  
On side note when my kids were young the public health nurse had a "bird" when I told her I was planning on feeding them unpasturized milk when they turned 1....and on the first child she had me all worried (you know how first time parents are) so I boiled it to standards etc. Well my son did nothing but throw up from that milk so I gave him straight out of the tank and he kept it down ever since. I can tell you after that I no longer took my PHN words to heart about anything. We were all raised on cows milk and turned out AOK so no amt of research can prove it is harmful to us! All the hormones etc they inject into animals in the states is far more dangerous and they let that pass no problem. So I am not sure why they made the sale of raw milk illegal. They said if someone drank it and got sick we would be sued, but I think personally it was more that they didnt want us selling they wanted to get it all (on side note did you know if we ship over we get penalized? So it is better for us to throw out in that situation than ship....this we could sell or give to someone in need...such a waste but that is our govt's wisdom at it's best!!) Anyways, I do not know of any dairy farmer willing to risk the penalty of selling raw milk for this reason!!

JamaicaMeCrazy

4/9/2012 3:28:36 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:413
That's so sad

when we can't get raw milk. I hear so much about bad bacteria and the possibility of getting sick. Both my parents grew up on farms, as did my husband. They grew up as healthy as a horse and living a long time. Of course they did everything they could to keep the conditions sanitary as well. I have a lot of problems drinking milk and not-so-nice side effects; yet I can drink raw milk with no side effects as I've tried it in the past. People have been drinking raw milk since the beginning of time, and were healthier for it than we are today. Fatty milk you buy in the store is a big issue.  
Sorry I don't know anywhere now to get raw milk. I mostly stay away from it.

don brown

4/9/2012 5:38:49 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4341
hi Flutterby

I guess I should have worded my comment a little differently than I did. Our family milked cows for cream many years ago and after we quit that there was always a milk cow around, well up to the year 1998, and I don't ever recall anyone getting sick from the raw milk that we drank. I will say that I wasn't always confident that the were never going to be any bugs in it since we would send beef cattle to PFRA pastures, and not having a closed herd at times made me feel a little nervous.  
 
I guess the point that I wanted to come across was that any of the raw milk that we bought from dairies sort of came with a built in safety feature because of how the actual milk industry is run. New here mentioned about all the testing that the people, who produce the milk, have to go through and that was why I mentioned about why I couldn't understand why there would ever be a health issue buying from a dairy.  
 
I would like to say thanks to both Flutterby and new here for your comments, enjoyed reading them both especially the parts about the healthy aspects of raw milk, and new here's opinion of the headaches that government causes many of us. It really irks me at times when government legislates things, when maybe a more practical approach would be leaving it open to litigation, because I somehow doubt that there would ever be many against dairy producers.

Milky Whey

4/9/2012 6:03:40 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:454
also in my fridge

I got the cow. I hand milk, get a bit of dirt in the pail as well, take it to the house, strain it, use it. I grew up on raw milk. When raw milk goes sour, you can still use it, not like the yuck from the store that goes rancid. I do not have to buy anything dairy, I make the cheese, butter, have the fresh cream, make the kefir (love that stuff). Have a big bowl of butter on the counter I made this morning and am going to make ghee, I use this in any recipe that calls for oil, so I don't even have to buy cooking oil anymore, this stuff is wonderful, and I use it for stir fry.  
 
On that note, it is milking time. Time to go out and tell my cow how wonderful and beautiful she is and spoil her.

The quiet one

4/9/2012 7:36:17 PM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:864
Well

  
Flutterby said "
  
The quiet one said "Is unpasturized so you get the good and bad bacteria however to be sold it must be pasteurized. Asking a dairy farmer to sell raw milk is putting the farm at risk for fines and/ or losing its Manitoba milk producers permit. Raw milk sales ( and cheese )were clamped down on (effectively) in the 90's  
 
Edited by The quiet one, 2012-04-09 00:30:14"

If you want unpasteurized cheese, you can buy it legally if it is aged past 60 days and has been stored or aged at the correct temperatures. By this time, the bad bacteria that may have been in it will have been killed off by the acidity of the cheese. You can find unpasteurized cheese at Two Farm Kids and in Superstore. PC makes a great unpasteurized cheddar in mild, medium and old. There is no modified milk ingredients in it all all...just real milk products. It is good stuff and aside from homemade, is our first choice. It may cost more, but you are also paying for real ingredients, not cheap unhealthy ingredients like most contain (talking about modified milk ingredients, specifically). So if you wish to buy raw milk, but can't legally, you can at least legally get unpasteurized cheese.  
 
Unfortunately, scoopie, no one in MB can legally sell raw milk, although a lot still "secretly" do. We are fortunate to have a bit of land and find a good Jersey. We have been discussing the possibility of getting a milking goat as well for teaching how to milk, but haven't fully decided yet. If we could legally sell you some milk, we would. But unfortunately, we can't as the law stands. We tend to use up all of the milk anyway through drinking, cheese making, making pudding, baking, ice cream, sour cream, yogurt, etc. We make good use of what we get. The excess, if there is any, goes to our other animals.  
 
I would not want to ever go back to bought milk. With raw, I have lost weight that does not come back and enjoy the flavor that much more. With bought, I gained weight. It has also saved our family a lot of money. We have found as well that the bought milk goes rancid, the raw goes sour, which of course is a testament to the contents and also the lack of other things in the milk.  
 
After researching more on the how raw milk can affect weight loss, I found that it comes from the lack of change of size of fat molecules that comes along with homogenization which makes it hard for your body to absorb and digest. Also, pasteurization kills all of the enzymes needed to digest milk properly, but when milk contains these, your body can digest it properly and so it can be used in the way it was intended. Pasteurization kills both the good and bad (the test for effective pasteurization is the total lack of any enzymes), leaving the processed milk open to growing bad bacteria with no checks or balances that the raw milk naturally has. I thought that that was very interesting. I have read this in many places, but it was most clearly explained at a goat site that I recently viewed. Pasteurization is not fully effective in killing all bad bacteria either, as is widely believed. Some still live through the process, but no good bacteria does. There is a lot more said on the site, but I was specifically researching the connection with weight loss and also goat information. Here is the site if you want to read more: <:A target="_blank" HREF="http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/rawmilk.htm">:http://fiascofarm.com/dairy/rawmilk.htm<:/A>:  
 
Edited by Flutterby, 2012-04-09 09:31:57"

Being in the dairy and beef industry at the time I can only speak from experience...  
 
A colony got caught selling homemade cheese, and got shut down( the 90's), too bad too, they did make a really good Gouda and caraway.  
 
And yes fresh out of the tank, nothing beats it, never had to worry our somatic cell and plate loop counts were always low.  
 
Been around long enough to see cream quota go bye bye and milk quota sky rocket.

Flutterby

4/10/2012 10:31:11 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1041
unpasteurized milk cheese

I at first wondered when I found this cheese at Two farm Kids. I didn't know that it could be done legally. I read the information that they had posted right there at the fridge section, and it looked official. I looked up the link given and although there were guidelines, it is legal to do so...if you keep to the guidelines. I thought that I would have bookmarked the site, but somehow I can't seem to find it.  
 
I also heard about the Hutterite colony that had those hassles. I also heard that their cheese was great. Maybe they didn't follow those guidelines?  
 
I have read time and time again that the best cheeses are made from raw milk and the best most flavorful old world cheeses are done from raw milk. I found that to be a very interesting thing.  
 
Milky Whey, do you use your whey for soup bases, in baking, and such too? We think it makes for the most satisfying soup. We don't generally like soups here because they all so often leave us hungry, but this solved that issue. I have heard that it makes a great meat tenderizer, but I haven't tired that out yet.

J.J. Bratts

4/10/2012 11:08:56 PM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:27
Feds

The government deems many natural products illegal. Its not legal until the government can add crap and make money. Years ago my family used real milk. There has never been an actual case won by "bad real milk". Like everything else regulated, the consumer is screwed.

james33

4/10/2012 11:34:18 PM
Member since:
Feb 2009
Total posts:111
i was raised on a farm

and also grew up on raw milk. and to anyone that has not tried raw milk it taste great. I also worked on a dairy for years and know how much work it is to keep things sanitary. and here is a interesting fact. not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet but many people that are lactose intolerant are not lactose intolerant to raw cows milk. it does anger me that the govt put a stop to selling it. I can buy eggs from a farmer. I can buy a cow or a pig or a chicken for meat from a farmer and all is good. I can buy it already butchered or alive and have it done a govt inspected shop. but I cant buy milk or cheese from a farmer that is also govt inspected. so yes something stinks when the govt did this and its not the pile behind the cow lol

nicemoustache

4/10/2012 11:40:56 PM
Member since:
Apr 2012
Total posts:47
Ahhhh...

The banning of raw milk sales had ONLY to do with the Milk Control Board (government) seeing they were missing some of their cut by farmers selling directly to the consumer. Regardless of the reasoning they gave at the time, in reality it had nothing to do with health concerns.  
Such fond memories of my older brothers seeing if they could squirt milk directly from the cow into my mouth about 4 feet away! And we licked salt from the same salt block in the pasture right beside the cows... Never felt better! Ah the good old days!!!

Beajulsha

4/10/2012 11:45:30 PM
Member since:
Nov 2008
Total posts:349
milk and butter

Growing up my whole life in the city, I have never had the opportunity to try fresh raw milk nor home churned fresh butter......I keep hearing country folk who say there is nothing better, but boy I would sure like to have that experience in my lifetime.  
 
Thanks to all for the cheese info. I have seen kefir in the stores in the international foods sections and have thought about buying as it would be a milk fat without the protein.  
 
I wonder how many rural folk in Mb who have cows or goats for personal milk consumption.

Milky Whey

4/11/2012 6:49:39 AM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:454
.

flutterby, I have not done the whey in the soup yet, I don't have enough fridge or freezer to keep everything and when I make cheese, I am not making soup or the opposite. I tried the whey in my bread and I didn't care for how it turned out, have tweak the recipe a bit. I have also learned how to make a homemade version of Cheese Whiz. Was a good day when I didn't have to buy that for my husband anymore. I also have a cheese recipe that does not have to age, you make it and use it. Works well for me because I have yet to buy the wax.  
 
scribble, the homemade butter actually has some taste to it. I was at a friends for lunch on day and she was quite happy because she had switched from margarine to butter. I have never been a fan of margarine, but when I had some of the "store bought" butter I thought she had made a mistake and put margarine on the table, that is how much of a difference I found in the taste.  
 
Also had another friend visiting and she was surprised at how much the homemade yogurt agreed with her, she totally avoids the store bought because it upsets her system. She had another lady she was travelling with and this lady as well could not believe the difference in taste of the homemade.  
 
It is amazing how much food you can make with a pail of milk twice a day.  
 
Looking forward to getting my chickens again this year and they will eat all the leftover.

Flutterby

4/11/2012 8:13:07 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1041
Milky Whey

I pm'd you.

Flutterby

4/11/2012 8:25:41 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1041
yogurt

The closest tasting yogurt to homemade that we have found is Olympic Krema Greek Style. It is super high fat, and that might be what helps. It is the only bought yogurt that I can eat plain. All others taste too sour, in my opinion. I think you can find it in Safeway.

oldcowgirl

4/11/2012 9:11:24 AM
Member since:
Nov 2010
Total posts:514
laws

We used to donate (25 years ago) raw milk to community functions until the milk board found out and they threatened to shut us down. The only thing that saved us was we were donating and not selling. We had one of these wonderful immigrant citizens ccme in after this and wanted to buy milk. We said no it was against the law and he threatened us with racism charges. We had to call the cops to get him to leave the yard.  
 
As for farmers keeping a single milk cow around there aren't many as they have to be milked twice a day and every day and with most farmers with an off farm job it is too time consuming or to find someone to come in to relief milk would be extremely hard.  
 
I know of someone who used to drink raw milk and when they got rid of their cows they couldn't drink store milk was told lactose intolerant.  
 
Noticed once we quit shipping milk that raw milk would only keep 4 or 5 days before going "sour" versus store milk that can have up to 2 week expiry date on it and goes "rotton". I have been out of school for a long time but pasurization was developed to kill bad bacteria in the milk that caused sickness (Open for someone to correct me on this) and that is why the rules were put in place. I believe that it is the preservatives in milk that people can't digest not the milk.

Wolfie

4/11/2012 9:16:21 AM
Member since:
Jan 2008
Total posts:127
love raw milk

I used to run a goat dairy in BC and had so many loops to jump through it was not worth it. I did give milk away labelled not for human consumption if someone drank it, it would not come back to me as they drank it at their own risk. I will say goat’s milk is naturally pasteurized and by pasteurizing it again it takes all the good nutrients out and then you get crap for milk. I cannot drink cow’s milk or goat’s milk bought from a grocery store but give me fresh and I have no problem. People have been drinking raw milk for centuries and they never died from it. The only reason the government says it is bad is so that they can reap the profits. The farmers never get the profits and many are poor because it is not an easy life. It time we say enough to the governments and let’s get back to reality. How many people are dying from cancer that I am sure is linked to all the chemicals in our foods today, natural is better all the way around.

Milky Whey

4/11/2012 9:43:48 AM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:454
causing sickness

if it were really about food safety, I think there would be lot more of foods taken off the shelf. How many times do you read about food recalls because of listeria, ecoli and whatever else make you sick. What about the batch of milk about one month ago in Ontario that had the cleaners not rinse out properly and get into the milk.  
 
It is all about money. If you have a clean environment for your cow, you will not get sick. You cannot catch what you cow doesn't have.  
 
But,,,saying that, if they legalized the sale of raw milk again there would always be some moron who would have a cow tied up to a tree, knee deep in mess and no fresh water. When people were getting sick from raw milk (in the cities) it was because the cows were being fed sludge from the breweries and they were very, very unhealthy. I have read that the milk was blue, it was so bad. So it always go back to the same old stuff, look after your animals and they will look after you.  
 
I grew up on raw milk and we did not have running water or electricity to heat and wash with. We washed everything with soap and water, we hand milked, some dirt did indeed fall into the pail. We were never sick. So the government can say what they want about the food safety, they are blowing lots of smoke.  
 
nicemoustache:- I can relate to the licking of the salt block. We shared with the cows and the horses, makes me laugh just thinking about it and the fit some mothers would have watching their kids do that today. Maybe that is why I am bit off. We also ran barefoot through the barnyard, right through the cow poo, when it was time to go into the house, go get a bar of soap, head for the dugout, wash your feet and in you go. We also had contests on how high you get the poo to squish through your toes before it would fall over, it had to be a couple of days old to that with it. Aaaaaand I am here to tell about it. :o)


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