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Topic: 8th street bridge: Four options
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Adam

3/21/2012 3:01:42 PM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:14823
8th street bridge: Four options

An open house was held yesterday that presented four options that are being considered for the 8th street bridge and was to gather public feedback on each of them. Below are those options and the points that were presented on each....  
 
* * * * * * * *  
 
Option A - Rehab/Replace Structure "As-is"  
To replace the 1934 bridge and rehabilitate the 1968 bridge in the same location, with the same vertical alignment  
- lower cost  
- lower property impact at south end of bridge  
- minor improvement to driver and pedestrian safety  
- narrow sidewalk remains  
- bicyclists must dismount to cross bridge  
- bridge closed during construction period  
- bridge slopes remain very steep for vehicles and pedestrians  
 
Option B - Rehab/Replace plus Pedestrian Bridge  
- new pedestrian bridge improves safety for all users  
- existing vehicle lanes widened  
- lower property impact at south end of bridge  
- bridge closed during construction period  
- bridge slopes remain very steep for vehicles  
 
Option C - New Bridge Aligned with 9th Street  
To build a new bridge that lines up on the south end at 9th street (and intersecting with 8th street N)  
- improved traffic flow  
- wide sidewalk is good for pedestrians and cyclists  
- steep slopes reduced and safety improved  
- Negative impacts to several businesses North and South of the bridge  
- Bridge closed during construction period  
- Higher cost of construction  
- Stickney and Pacific must be raised to meet new bridge  
- Several residences at North end of bridge impacted  
 
Option D - New Bridge at 5th Street  
To demolish the bridge at 8th Street and build a new bridge at 5th street  
- bridge moved closer to edge of neighbourhood rather than in the middle  
- steep slopes reduced and safety improved  
- wide sidewalk is good for pedestrians and cyclists  
- negative impacts to several businesses south of bridge  
- higher cost of construction  
- Pacific must be raised to meet new bridge  
 
* * * * * * * *  
 
The primary rank has Option D (new bridge aligned with 5th street) as 1st, C as 2nd, B as 3rd and A as 4th. The plan is for there to be a recommended option by April and a preliminary design later in the spring or into the summer. Is there an option that you prefer based on the above descriptions and points? Is there an option that you think would be a mistake?  
 
After commenting, for anyone that didn't have a chance to go to the open house please check out the survey thats been posted at http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/8th_Street_Bridge_Open_House_2_Survey  
which will be used as part of the process to assess the public's priorities. There's also more information at 8thsteetbridge.com

 
 
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RonHart

3/21/2012 3:13:57 PM
Member since:
Nov 2011
Total posts:510
new bridge

any money put in to this old girl is just a waste.

Trevor B

3/21/2012 3:20:35 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7454
Wonder

how many more years of life Option A will extend the life of the bridge. It's going to have to be replaced eventually.

sokolovic

3/21/2012 3:30:22 PM
Member since:
Oct 2009
Total posts:1435
...

And I say replace it before we have to redo the Daly Bridge.

NoCares

3/21/2012 9:31:43 PM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:2781
...

Option D sounds like the best option. No businesses or residents will be negatively affected by it!

Trevor B

3/21/2012 9:37:50 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7454
A

new bridge would also allow fire trucks to use it.

Mr. Smith

3/21/2012 9:45:21 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:82
Option D WILL impact a number of residents

Option D will most certainly require the city to expropriate all the homes on 5th street North, including ours. You need to take a better look at the mock up before you make incorrect assumptions about impact.

Degenerate108

3/21/2012 9:47:56 PM
Member since:
Dec 2008
Total posts:3689
.

I like option D personally.

Trevor B

3/21/2012 9:58:18 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7454
Looks like

all the plans affect property in some way. Probably the only ways not to affect property is to leave it or get rid of entirely and have no bridge.

Doug

3/21/2012 10:03:20 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6715
Options

I did my visit there yesterday. Option A was one that one the presenters figure may be the one they suggest. They know what happened last budget!!  
 
I Like D for several reasons. It will be the only one that leaves the current bridge opened while construction goes on. The talk was with the other options it could be up to two years being closed! That is a long time for only one of four routes over the tracks! One being 26th being block by trains for far too long!  
 
I also like the the fact that both North and South of the 5th street link the area is prime for improvement. Yes some houses will need to go. Just like the other choices where some will be affected but wow I see possiblities.  
 
South-- The Brandon Sun building is near end of life!  
 
North is problematic but if handled well can give us a route that is above flood level and Riverside. Current residents and shops can have first dibs on new areas opened up!  
 
Cost will be a driver but with increased property values on both sides there is some payback!  
 
I guess option d will cost double option a. Yet we will Have brand new. Not a refurbed bridge.  
 
My second choice is option C.  
 

Bob George

3/21/2012 10:25:59 PM
Member since:
Oct 2009
Total posts:463
Ideas are great...

But the city keeps forgetting that we as taxpayers would like to know "How much does it cost"?  
 
It's hard to look at the options without having an idea of what the overpass solutions would cost.

Ain't that nice

3/21/2012 10:27:11 PM
Member since:
Dec 2010
Total posts:340
Option D!

City planner's along with the rail companies need to start thinking outside the current framework and relocate the whole railway line and switch station outside the downtown core! This would clean up the downtown area, end the 100 plus yrs of a segregated city due to planning that was built upon convenience for that era! Times have changed and relocating the tracks would end the problems that are never going to end with these bridges for the short and long term future! It is also a benefit regarding the shipping of dangerous goods on the line through the core of the city and the answer to the response time of our brave firefighters as a result of the new location to the firestation which is impacted to a certain degree by the problem of the tracks!!

Trevor B

3/21/2012 10:35:04 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7454
The

  
7of10 said "City planner's along with the rail companies need to start thinking outside the current framework and relocate the whole railway line and switch station outside the downtown core! This would clean up the downtown area, end the 100 plus yrs of a segregated city due to planning that was built upon convenience for that era! Times have changed and relocating the tracks would end the problems that are never going to end with these bridges for the short and long term future! It is also a benefit regarding the shipping of dangerous goods on the line through the core of the city and the answer to the response time of our brave firefighters as a result of the new location to the firestation which is impacted to a certain degree by the problem of the tracks!! "

odds of this happening are slim to nil. You must of read what a Winnipeg MP wants to happen to one of the Winnipeg yards.  
 
Edited by Trevor B, 2012-03-21 22:35:55

RonHart

3/21/2012 10:39:07 PM
Member since:
Nov 2011
Total posts:510
cost

will be the cost of the new bridge anyway.Now if they wait the cost will increase as the life of the bridge is over plus the bandaids they put on the old bridge to keep it going until the new one goes in.

Ain't that nice

3/21/2012 10:45:25 PM
Member since:
Dec 2010
Total posts:340
Nope

I read your quote about the money doing a R&R being an absolute wast, I agree with you 100%! And the chances of what I'm proposing happening are nil simply due to human nature of we'll put a band aid on it for now until we come up with a solution for the future! If the removal of the yard was to happen now the offsetting of the bridge repairs over the next 200 yrs would more them pay for it, could you imagine if there was ever a serious accident with dangerous goods or god forbid someone died because of the location and response time for the firefighters! It's all about perception and convincing the current council to be bold and take a major leap forward now, with the costs of materials and labour and the certainty of inflation this is totally feasible!

black ice

3/21/2012 11:11:19 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:7
area resident

As a resident of the area, I can assure you that many houses will be lost if Option D is chosen. The majority of residents on 5th St. N. will be forced to sell their homes. (many of them being seniors and families who have lived on their street for many years.)  
 
Those on 8th St. N. with the bridge in their backyard currently chose to purchase those properties knowing that. Residents of the streets affected by Option D purchased homes that are not under or beside a bridge and should not be forced to relocate, have their property values depleted or reside bridge side.  
 
The housing market and rental situation in Brandon is outrageous right now, so where are the dislocated residents to find a home of equal value and quality that they have now. They will be facing sky high prices!! And 6th St. N. residents will be stuck with the option of selling their homes(with depleted property values) or living beside a bridge.  
 
5th St. N is a beautiful, quiet, scenic street with gorgeous mature trees and it should not have to be sacrificed, especially when the city has the option to repair or rebuild on the current site.  
 

Doug

3/21/2012 11:31:53 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6715
Black Ice

The houses will have to go no doubt.If that option is chosen the time frame is in years not months so there will be further talks and time for finding a new home!. I wonder what you mean by the 8th street shops and House owners? They may have expected closures and some changes as Option A would do but the rest is also out of the blue for them. Some May have owned property there far longer than the owners around option d.  
 
Some ones nose will be out of joint no matter what option other than A) is chosen.  
 
As far as the owners on sixth?. I suggest if that whole flats area gets its due their property value can jump. Maybe not as a House but as location.  
 
Overall though the residents concerns need to be addressed. This decision is not happening next year. Council is supposed to move on a choice in the fall. If you do not like it-- get active!!

black ice

3/21/2012 11:58:26 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:7
bridge

Doug, there are a few of us who plan on rallying the troops!! LOL You would be surprised at the number of residents (especially the seniors) who have no idea about what is happening or how they would be affected.  
 
We are just very worried and concerned about the options we may be facing. Ourselves, as well as many of our neighbors, hope to retire in the homes we have. The neighborhood is so quiet, so many trees, almost park like sometimes.  
 
Am glad the city will be making its decision sooner rather than later. The unknown is the hardest part.

snowman5

3/22/2012 12:14:33 AM
Member since:
Nov 2009
Total posts:796
Option D -but another location

I would suggest that the plan on replacing the 8th street bridge be modified, maybe the money would be better spent on having a bridge at 26th or 34th. Why should we re-build something that we could do without? Wouldn't traffic flow north/south be more efficient if a bridge be set-up on a street that has more vehicles traveling on it? Why have a bridge join a neighbourhood that is growing slowly to a downtown that is near death? Close the 8th street bridge to traffic and make it pedestrian only and focus on a new north/south corridor.

ICYMI

3/22/2012 6:28:04 AM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:3133
Option D

Option D.  
 
Do it right.  
 

Mr. Smith

3/22/2012 7:06:33 AM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:82
Option D

It is pretty easy to give an opinion on what you think is the best option, if you don't own property in the affected area. As Black Ice mentioned, parts of the North End are a diamond in the rough. Our home was built to take advantage of an un-obstructed view looking north towards the ACC campus framed by the river. We have deer, racoon, birds and other wildlife to enjoy right outside our bedroom window. I can pick up my kayak and be on the water 30 seconds after opening my back gate. Our home could not be purchased with similar surroundings for less than $400,000 in any prairie city. This is the home that we want to live in until we die. If we were forced out of our home by the city, I don't think our family would choose to live in Brandon anymore. Before you give your opinions, I suggest taking a drive and seeing how many people on 5th N will loose their homes. One woman on this street has live in her home for >:80 years.

Doug

3/22/2012 7:23:25 AM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6715
snowman5

Good idea but engineers in their wisdom say it can not be done on 34th. Too much of a height change and would cost tons. I think the same as 26th  
 

NoCares

3/22/2012 7:34:34 AM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:2781
...

When something new comes in, or when the city needs something new, there is usually always something that needs to be lost (in this case, housing, which, in a few years, can be found elsewhere).  
 
Now, I was looking at a map of Brandon, and I was thinking, could they build a bridge from 4th street to Assiniboine Av? From what I see, they could scrap the parking lot on 4th Street by that strip mall, start at Rosser and put an incline going up (think 8th street bridge), and then have the bottom at Assiniboine Av? Almost where the two apartment/townhouse buildings are. Again, suggestion. Probably will cost more.

Doug

3/22/2012 7:37:45 AM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6715
nope

  
7of10 said "City planner's along with the rail companies need to start thinking outside the current framework and relocate the whole railway line and switch station outside the downtown core! This would clean up the downtown area, end the 100 plus yrs of a segregated city due to planning that was built upon convenience for that era! Times have changed and relocating the tracks would end the problems that are never going to end with these bridges for the short and long term future! It is also a benefit regarding the shipping of dangerous goods on the line through the core of the city and the answer to the response time of our brave firefighters as a result of the new location to the firestation which is impacted to a certain degree by the problem of the tracks!! "

I do not agree for the most part. While there is room for changes like moving the location where the head end crew changes further east so the tracks at 26th do not get blocked A move is problematic.  
 
First no matter where the new yards get located the same issue will happen. The Yards attract companies who rely on it! They will want to pack up and move closer. The same as the workers at the Yards and for the suppliers. The majority of the East end had railroaders living there because of location. Simple fact workers will want to move closer to where they work!  
Tax base. The only place I could see the Yards moving is north to Elton or out of town east or west. That base along with companies needing to be closer and suppliers and staff will try to follow over a ten year period more or less. Taking their property taxes with them.  
Brandon used to be a pure railroad town. Certainly it would not be here without it. Now that it is only part of our fine town we can not ignore its impact. Yes it was here first but I suggest if the yards move the city will have new issues and wherever the new location ends up will have people in 50 years complaining about its location!

TAJH

3/22/2012 7:56:04 AM
Member since:
Jul 2007
Total posts:175
Option B or C

Depending on price. D will be incredibly expensive, and a LOT of people will lose some of the nicest homes in Brandon. Plus then the split between 1st and 18th isn't anywhere near 1/2 way. No matter what, yes, someone is going to be mad, but the sheer cost of giving fair market value to the home owners on 5th street north will be huge.  
 
If ~any~ of you wanting option D lived there, I'm 100% sure you would not be choosing option D anymore.  

RonHart

3/22/2012 8:01:30 AM
Member since:
Nov 2011
Total posts:510
Black ice

you may be surprised what they pay for your house.  
 
The people in that area need to be a forward thinkers and put then needs of everyone/what benefits the people of the city rather then try and hold back and stop growth and improvements.

Adam

3/22/2012 8:28:25 AM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:14823
Visual

For a bit more of a visual, I've added images of each option that were presented. They show in more detail where each bridge would be located and indicate which properties would be impacted (best to click on the image to view the bigger version)  
 
Also here are a couple of Google street views... one standing at 5th and Stickney looking South at the location of a D bridge and one standing at the North foot of the current bridge:  
 
5th and Stickney, looking South:

View Larger Map  
 
8th and Stickney, looking South

View Larger Map

Adam

3/22/2012 8:38:16 AM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:14823
More info

and a reply from the Mayor this morning to a couple of questions I asked regarding the cost of each as well as potential funding sources  
 
* * * * * * * * * * *  
 
Hi Adam- thanks for your interest in the 8th St Bridge (the recent closure underscoring the urgency of this project). Costs are still being worked on and will come to Council later this Spring for full discussion. Property acquisition will play a role in each of the options to varying degrees, so we want to include an estimate of that as well.  
 
Traditionally, these kinds of projects involve all three levels of government, however there are significant budget pressures at both the Federal and Provincial levels right now that may limit their involvement. We'll certainly be working hard to put other funders at the table, but the project must move ahead regardless if we have funding partners.  
 
Another element that Council will use in their deliberations is the lifespan (and therefore amortization) of each of the options. Partial rebuilds extend the life of the bridge about 30 years, while a totally new bridge would last 70-80 years. Hope this helps.
 
 
* * * * * * * * *

snowman5

3/22/2012 10:03:29 AM
Member since:
Nov 2009
Total posts:796
Maybe a new approach is needed?

Perhaps we are thinking wrong to have a railway bridge for that neighbourhood. What would be the costs to build a bridge over the river to First street? What is an extra five blocks to the East mean to anyone if it leaves the neighbourhood intact?

black ice

3/22/2012 1:13:22 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:7
Ron

The price we would get for our home does not make up for the fact that we would be displaced and forced to give up a house, yard, neighbors that we love.  
 
As someone mentioned, our neighbor is in her 80's, was born in that home. Imagine how she's feeling right now.  
 
And trust me, I am a forward thinker with 2 degrees and years of project development under my belt. If building on our street were the only option, I could live with that. But I see another couple of the options as being viable without destroying a neighborhood.  
 
We love our house and consider it be more than just a building....it's our home. There are many happy home owners in Bdn that would be horrified at the prospect of being forced to move. Call me selfish, but right now my concern is for ourselves and our neighbors.

 
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