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Discussion Groups: Brandon Chatter


Topic: 6 years later, the mini-city idea proposal
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Trevor B

3/21/2013 9:19:15 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
6 years later, the mini-city idea proposal

Since it became a no-go all those years ago.  
 
Has there been any mention of the Yogesh Goradia mini-city being built else where? Has anyone heard of him since then? An internet search of his name doesn't bring up much, links the the threads here, people of the same name in India, on Youtube, Facebook. Don't know if they are the same guy though.  
 
What's everyone's thoughts about it today?  
If more of the plans/details were available, would things be any different today?  
 
For me there were too many unanswered questions surrounding it. Were would the mini-city get it's water, where would it's wastewater go, it's garbage, and other services. Where would all of the residents come from? It's local government, policing, fire, EMS, hospital. Some of the venues would have been great to have in Brandon. I think the reason why it wasn't given the go ahead is because not enough was known about it other than basic ideas.  
 
The threads.  
Mini-city being built next to Brandon?  
http://www.ebrandon.ca/messagethread.aspx?cat_id=3&message_id=45283  
 
Letter from Yogesh Goradia  
http://www.ebrandon.ca/messagethread.aspx?cat_id=3&message_id=50889  
 
Goradia's deadline approaches  
http://www.ebrandon.ca/messagethread.aspx?message_id=57650&cat_id=3

 
 
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Trevor B

3/21/2013 11:39:30 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
Little more

searching on Yogesh Goradia yields zilch! Forbes has no billionaire by that name, Wikipedia has nothing, no obituary even. You would think there would be more about this guy who wanted to built this mini-city here.  
 
And this is a project that the RM of Cornwallis, and others were supporting. Maybe the City of Brandon and the Province saw things that just didn't add up and made sure it went no further. Maybe it was some sort of scam? The City and the Province may have saved us from a lot of grief.  
 
In the other threads, so many were blinded by the money with out knowing all the details.

Fishin Guy

3/22/2013 6:50:30 AM
Member since:
Dec 2005
Total posts:5847
....

Wish it would have gone ahead. 3000 people isn't a lot. It would have lessened the strain on housing and probably would have opened up rental units. It would have brought competition to the building industry. Pretty shitty to have to buy off pretty much one developer that has pretty much created a monopoly. Would have opened up more jobs. I would put money on it if a certain family name was put on the papers there wouldn't have been much resistance.  
 
Edited by Fishin Guy, 2013-03-22 06:53:03

don brown

3/22/2013 7:34:46 AM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4206
My opinion

Well it is the same as when the project was proposed, and for me the idea was not that bad. I went back and read two of the links that you provided and there were a lot of questions that weren't answered at the time, and there were points that made a person wonder about whether the owner was not just pushing to hard, and being sort of the controlling power at the development, and yet when I look at some of the developments that have happened In the city since, I see developers following the same path.  
 
Not meaning to be rude about this Trevor but the scam or conspiracy idea seems hard to accept, the guy appeared publicly before the council with plans and the idea was then said to be quashed by the province as well as city. I think that there are many people who are like me, and if we what to make a conspiracy idea out of it, we might be looking at the city as well as the province.  
 
There are, or were, issues that even today would be a concern and those would have been the water and sewer, but the idea of not having the people to make use of this project seems to been proven wrong.  
 
There is one thing that is on my mind and it is sort of hard to explain, but it is sort of along the idea that by not allowing this project to move forward, has it benefited the community as a whole, or created hardship for the community as a whole, and the reason I use the phrase "community as a whole" is that when I look at the price of housing or rental and I think that the benefits are shared by a few, and the hardships are felt by a much larger percent of the population. A lot of people may think that it has benefited them because the investment in a house has returned them a decent gain as far a net worth but one must remember that you always need a place to live and also sometimes bubbles do burst, even at the local level.

braid

3/22/2013 9:27:53 AM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:5329
what

What bugged the heck out of me was the lack of information at the time. All we could get was "snipits" out of the paper & the opinions on here. No real info ...just nope don't want it. Even going to the meeting didn't help much.  
Gotta say ..I agree with fishinguy...the monopoly didn't want it & neither did the brother of ....certain people. Makes you wonder ...if we knew then what we know now...what woukd have happened? ? ?  
 
Edited by braid, 2013-03-22 09:29:19

UKadian

3/22/2013 10:01:55 AM
Member since:
Jun 2009
Total posts:65
Please explain

I do not understand what influence the City of Brandon had when this proposal was NOT going to be in Brandon.

Smitty78

3/22/2013 11:23:56 AM
Member since:
Feb 2013
Total posts:270
mini city 6 years on

The problem the City of Brandon & then Mayor Burgess had with this proposal is that Brandon Infrastructure services (like Emergency services,water & sewer, policing )would be drawn on, and tax revenues would go to Cornwallis Municipality. This is the same issue our current Mayor & council had with building a Casino on Aboriginal Owned land by the airport.  
Having recognized the issue though, there are examples of cooperation with Cornwallis on The Wastewater treatment Plant, flood mitigation etc.  
I agree with the previous post, It is too bad with the way Brandon has grown, we have to live stacked in apartments or condos due to a perpetual shortage of affordable housing, and no government has a budget or a real plan to solve the problem.  
Too bad the then city council didn't ask a few more questions of the developer, to determine how viable this might be, before getting their collective backs up about the issue.

Smitty78

3/22/2013 11:37:40 AM
Member since:
Feb 2013
Total posts:270
Another Question

Wonder if someone from Council could comment on what's different from this failed idea from 6 years ago and The Black Farm Development I hear discussed at recent Council meetings.  
To me Black Farm seems to be about providing more highway commercial sites(like Sam & company did for Ikea in Wpg.) and little about affordable housing.  
Is what's suggested here true? Council won't support anything but more condos because that's what makes developers money?  
Just curious, I'm sure I don't have all the information on what may be looming on the North Hill.

snowman5

3/22/2013 11:50:13 AM
Member since:
Nov 2009
Total posts:813
That's easy...

  
UKadian said "I do not understand what influence the City of Brandon had when this proposal was NOT going to be in Brandon. "

Just connect the dots. The major players (or "the monopoly") didn't want the competition. They in return reinforced concerns and convinced the city that civic planning (urban sprawl), tax revenue and property sales would be lost if this was to happen. The city (along with the current developers) in return influenced the Brandon and Area Planning District (who also control development for the municipality of Cornwallis) not to support that kind of dense housing project in a rural area. It's A to B to C. Throw in the threat of not supplying basic services like emergency, water/ sewer and roads out towards the development to top things off ...and the project is dead before anything gets off the ground or even a public survey is done.  
 
The moral of the story: Don't show any intentions until you are certain that you have political backing.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

braid

3/22/2013 12:43:02 PM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:5329
nope...sounds

  
snowman5 said "
  
UKadian said "I do not understand what influence the City of Brandon had when this proposal was NOT going to be in Brandon. "

Just connect the dots. The major players (or "the monopoly") didn't want the competition. They in return reinforced concerns and convinced the city that civic planning (urban sprawl), tax revenue and property sales would be lost if this was to happen. The city (along with the current developers) in return influenced the Brandon and Area Planning District (who also control development for the municipality of Cornwallis) not to support that kind of dense housing project in a rural area. It's A to B to C. Throw in the threat of not supplying basic services like emergency, water/ sewer and roads out towards the development to top things off ...and the project is dead before anything gets off the ground or even a public survey is done.  
 
The moral of the story: Don't show any intentions until you are certain that you have political backing.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong. "

Like at the end how you said....I could be wrong....Nope ...I don't think you're wrong...sounds bang on to me. ...but then..I've bern known to be wrong to ...lol

ronfay

3/22/2013 1:27:42 PM
Member since:
Oct 2006
Total posts:509
Conspiracy?

My first thought when I saw the BS article on this proposal six years ago was "scam". I have worked for and/or witnessed at close hand various scam artists over the years, and this project started up the same way -- get a lot of public support for something vaguely described at best. I tried to make some of the numbers work back then and was doubtful. As well, big bad City of Brandon would be the least of the political hurdles here: this project would have required rezoning of a large parcel of agricultural land and would have required building all the infrastructure for a city, including water and sewage treatment plants. This means major involvement from the province. Maybe the reason this didn't go further was that it didn't pass any smell tests. Proof of that might be, in hindsight, that this city wasn't built anywhere else.

Trevor B

3/22/2013 5:02:06 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
Ya

  
ronfay said "My first thought when I saw the BS article on this proposal six years ago was "scam". I have worked for and/or witnessed at close hand various scam artists over the years, and this project started up the same way -- get a lot of public support for something vaguely described at best. I tried to make some of the numbers work back then and was doubtful. As well, big bad City of Brandon would be the least of the political hurdles here: this project would have required rezoning of a large parcel of agricultural land and would have required building all the infrastructure for a city, including water and sewage treatment plants. This means major involvement from the province. Maybe the reason this didn't go further was that it didn't pass any smell tests. Proof of that might be, in hindsight, that this city wasn't built anywhere else. "

just WHAT is known about this Yogesh Goradia? There is zero information about this supposed billionaire. Anybody here know about this guy before? If he was some well known billionaire, why is the nothing on Forbes about him? Why is there nothing on the internet about him?  
 
There was never any website showing his plans, no public display of his plans. He could of booked a conference room in one of the hotels and had information session.  
 
I think the city did it's homework and did some research on him and found nothing about him like I have. They smelled some BS about him. I think they did the right thing in opposing this guy. I don't think it anything to do with other companies or the Mayor's brother.  
 
For all of those who wanted this project to go a head, what did you really know of the plans? What do you know about this guy?  
 
From the beginning things were just too fishy to be true.

Trevor B

3/22/2013 5:46:33 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
You mean

  
snowman5 said "
  
UKadian said "I do not understand what influence the City of Brandon had when this proposal was NOT going to be in Brandon. "

Just connect the dots. The major players (or "the monopoly") didn't want the competition. They in return reinforced concerns and convinced the city that civic planning (urban sprawl), tax revenue and property sales would be lost if this was to happen. The city (along with the current developers) in return influenced the Brandon and Area Planning District (who also control development for the municipality of Cornwallis) not to support that kind of dense housing project in a rural area. It's A to B to C. Throw in the threat of not supplying basic services like emergency, water/ sewer and roads out towards the development to top things off ...and the project is dead before anything gets off the ground or even a public survey is done.  
 
The moral of the story: Don't show any intentions until you are certain that you have political backing.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong. "

it wasn't because there is zero information on this guy? As a billionaire, you would think there would be more about him. Sure there was a guy at these meetings saying he was Yogesh Goradia, but do you know for sure? Did anyone do any research about him 6 years ago? There's no video, no pictures of this guy. I'm wishing I did.  
 
I really believe City Council sensed things were not right about this guy. Did some background searching and came up empty, just like I'm coming up with today. City Council may have saved us and the RM of Cornwallis a big headache. And it wasn't just the city that didn't support the project, the Province didn't either.  
 
Edited by Trevor B, 2013-03-22 17:52:49

ronfay

3/22/2013 7:46:14 PM
Member since:
Oct 2006
Total posts:509
7 April 2007 Edition of the Brandon Sun

lists quite clearly the objections to the proposal. Leading the charge was many departments of the provincial government, over concerns ranging from urban sprawl to the elimination of farmland. Also were objections from Nexus regarding proximity to the plant, and concern was raised over water and sewer treatment. Dr. Goradia is listed as being from Rancho Palos Verdes, California (South Bay-area suburb of Los Angeles) in his letter to the editor 11 April 2007, and a google search of his name finds references there. Finally, this billion dollar project was to contain 800 houses and 3000 occupants. This works out to $1.25 million per house (in 2007 dollars).

Oh Canada

3/22/2013 8:15:18 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:1270
Not on council but

  
Smitty78 said "Wonder if someone from Council could comment on what's different from this failed idea from 6 years ago and The Black Farm Development I hear discussed at recent Council meetings.  
To me Black Farm seems to be about providing more highway commercial sites(like Sam & company did for Ikea in Wpg.) and little about affordable housing.  
Is what's suggested here true? Council won't support anything but more condos because that's what makes developers money?  
Just curious, I'm sure I don't have all the information on what may be looming on the North Hill. "

I would suggest the biggest difference is that the Black property is in city limits and the mini city wasn’t. Tax benefits to Cornwallis not the City of Brandon.  
 
The biggest issue with the Black property is that the city doesn’t have the capacity and infrastructure to offer sewer and water to it. The city is spending a lot of money to come up with a plan for the lands development both on residential and commercial. The plan will be so specific that it will have details such as were residential development will be allowed and what type will be allowed ( i.e. apartment, single family, modular homes ect.).The project is to develop a "Gateway to the City" .  
To my knowledge there has never been a development in Brandon (since the city stopped developing its own land) that told the purchaser of the land specifically what they will have to build on it . In all cases the purchaser usually is a developer and they develop a plan submit it to Brandon area planning for approval and then council approves or denies it. The costs of a development plan is the developers not the city.  
In my opinion the biggest cost to the city is infrastructure. With all the technology we have these days I find it hard to believe that the city cannot estimate the density that this area may have to estimate the cost to supply sewer and water to the area. When I posed this question to one of the head engineers in the city he indicated that it was not that simple. I still cannot believe that there is not a program that can estimate this. Why spend $250,000 to hire a consultant to come up with a development plan to help determine the density?  
Developers take land and try to determine how they can make the most money they can with the approval of the city. Telling the developer what they can do with the land controls the amount the developer can pay for the land and still make the money they need. If the profit is not there they will not purchase the land. If the city want to much for the land then the land costs have to go down or the development plan (paid for by the taxpayers)goes out the window .  
 
I hope I am still alive (I estimate that this will be 30 years down the road until done) to see how it plays out!  
 

Trevor B

3/22/2013 8:18:42 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
Found the references

ronfay

3/22/2013 8:28:43 PM
Member since:
Oct 2006
Total posts:509
Oh Canada

Estimating the cost to provide utilities to the Black property is a complex process. Not believing in this doesn't make it so. Soil conditions, etc., which vary greatly over small distances in this city, have a very large impact on this estimate.

Oh Canada

3/22/2013 9:04:14 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:1270
maybe you can help

  
ronfay said "Estimating the cost to provide utilities to the Black property is a complex process. Not believing in this doesn't make it so. Soil conditions, etc., which vary greatly over small distances in this city, have a very large impact on this estimate. "

So how does doing a $250,000 plus development plan (not a infastructure plan) help determine this? My understanding is that the city is responsible for getting the infastructure to the edge of the property that needs services and the developer pays for everything from their to service the land they are going to develop. That includes sidewalks, roads trees signs ect.Then they turn the services they installed to service their homes and buildings back to the city.

Trevor B

5/11/2013 5:42:46 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
6 years ago

the deadline approached. And still wondering who this guy was.

BuddyCthulhu

5/11/2013 8:44:03 PM
Member since:
Sep 2010
Total posts:141
Ronfay & Trevor B

Are right on the money. There was precious little information on the guy when he came to town with his great plans but no concrete idea on how to make it a reality. As the deadline approached, there were subtle hints that if Brandon didn't act right then, the development would be moved to another community willing to build it. And has been noted, 6 years later there is no indication that it ever started anywhere, let alone was built. My opinion remains that it was either a scam, or a wildly improbable pipe dream.

Trevor B

5/11/2013 9:06:43 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
There

were no drawings, plans, financial backers for this $1 or 2 billion dream shown. It just seemed like this guy wanted to ram this dream through with no financial plan, no environmental study, no development plan. It was a deadline self-proposed by this guy.  
 
If it was Donald Trump who came to the RM and city with all the details, and solid plans then it would be more believable.  
 

Trevor B

5/11/2013 9:23:56 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7523
The

first mention of this on here was March 21, 2007 and the deadline was May 21, 2007.


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