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Topic: Health care system
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Doug

7/12/2013 4:50:01 AM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6824
Health care system

I live with a Nurses aid and I have experienced the health care system since the 60's . I note the new expanded Hospital had more offices added than one can shake a stick at.  
 
There also is a reason that private money is needed for the new Murray House. Just go into Winnipeg where people are still in the "hallway" yet it is not recorded. My point is and was that it is not fixed as you claim. Also note Filmon was not spending stupid and everyone including the Libs in Ottawa were spending smart at that time .If you think we can continue to run this spending level especially after 2014 when The Feds include our Hydro revenue then you better open your wallet just to maintain what we have. There is no way at 40 plus percentage of our current budget it can be improved. 34 plus hours before Sinclair died waiting at the ER. Do I blame Selinger or Doer-No. Yet I can tell you from my angle it is no better under the dippers.  
 
Here is one story. A nursing home in Brandon. When it first opened- 5 office staff. Same number of rooms then as now. Same number of Residents as now. Pretty much the same number as front line staff. Office staff is 25. I know that for many reasons more are/were required. Yet From 5 to 25?? A 24/7/7 operation is still a 24/7/7 operation!! Which brings me the expanded General and the fact that even though these homes and the hospital are 24/7/7 the staff parking lots are near empty on weekends. I know there is valid reason for them to be more empty but wow what a difference.  
 
In the 70's there was hallway medicine and still today. I really can not believe you think it is better managed today. Tech wise yet. Cancer care yes in some areas but the waiting lists suck and are growing in many areas and that you can not blame one party. The health care system is broken and needs fixing. Feel free to blame the Tories. I can take apart our current system piece by piece but what does that do??  
 
Health Care is a Provincial chore and The Feds chip in. When we are compared to other Provinces we do not do well. Four terms now and when you look back at when the other guys were in power very little has changed when we compare to other Provinces both then and now.  
 
The thinking in your post is why healthcare will never get fixed in this country. As soon as they start to look at fine examples the world over people scream we not want the American system. They close their eyes because the door to change is open and they do not like any of it.  
 

Edited by admin, 2013-07-12 09:36:01. Reason: title

 
 
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traveling guy

7/12/2013 9:05:02 AM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:217
I agree.

It really sounds like you know what you are talking about. It is time we took a honest look at all the options, as the system we have now isn't working.  
 
Several people from here have had to go to the states for health care, as they can't afford the long waiting times. Mayo clinic and other US hospitals employ nurses in Canada to help out Canadians that are being treated in the States. It is a good thing they are so close to us.

Puffwad

7/12/2013 9:27:34 AM
Member since:
Dec 2007
Total posts:1265
-.-

  
traveling guy said "It really sounds like you know what you are talking about. It is time we took a honest look at all the options, as the system we have now isn't working.  
 
Several people from here have had to go to the states for health care, as they can't afford the long waiting times. Mayo clinic and other US hospitals employ nurses in Canada to help out Canadians that are being treated in the States. It is a good thing they are so close to us. "

And numerous pregnant women travel from the US every year to Brandon and other hospitals because they can't afford to give birth in their own country!  
 
I know which system I prefer!

SJK

7/12/2013 9:41:36 AM
Member since:
Jul 2006
Total posts:4301
I don't think

  
Puffwad said "
  
traveling guy said "It really sounds like you know what you are talking about. It is time we took a honest look at all the options, as the system we have now isn't working.  
 
Several people from here have had to go to the states for health care, as they can't afford the long waiting times. Mayo clinic and other US hospitals employ nurses in Canada to help out Canadians that are being treated in the States. It is a good thing they are so close to us. "

And numerous pregnant women travel from the US every year to Brandon and other hospitals because they can't afford to give birth in their own country!  
 
I know which system I prefer! "

any one is suggesting that we adopt the US system. But that shouldn't stop us from looking at ways to make our system more efficient and without the thinking that if we just throw more money at it, it will be better. That's not the answer.

braid

7/12/2013 9:52:57 AM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:5356
picture

Picture a pyramid...now turn it upside down...write administration at the top..pretty much describes anything with politics of any sort involved...( even a lot of private companies...sigh )  

Puffwad

7/12/2013 11:08:11 AM
Member since:
Dec 2007
Total posts:1265
sigh ....

  
braid said "Picture a pyramid...now turn it upside down...write administration at the top..pretty much describes anything with politics of any sort involved...( even a lot of private companies...sigh )  
"

A brief look at any annual report from your health authority will show you the $'s spent on Administration - 4.15% in 2010.  
 
Since then Amalgamation of the RHAs has probably dropped this figure!  
 
A full 70% is spent on acute and long-term care - herein lies the problem!

Puffwad

7/12/2013 11:17:34 AM
Member since:
Dec 2007
Total posts:1265
Research

almost all research in the last 50 years on health system performance points to one thing ..  
 
Prevention and Health Promotion is the cheapest and most effective method of health care. The best way to provide health care is to stop people needing it in the first place!  
 
We spend pennies on prevention and health promotion whilst sinking thousands of dollars into cure and disease management. Of course to invest more into prevention and education we need to stop spending on hospitals that we won't need. There never has been and never will be the political will (from any party) to reduce spending on acute care. It's what you think you need when in fact a different service delivery model could have meant you never needed to be there in the first place!  
 

don brown

7/12/2013 12:27:04 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4599
changing world

the medical world changes every single week with new tests as well as new treatments, the thing is that all that is new costs more money, and maybe even ties up more of our medical structure, and I don't think that funding has kept up with the changing picture. It doesn't matter whether it is a private system or a public system, the cost are rising in both, and here it is becoming a burden on tax payers, and in a private system it is resulting in higher premiums.  
 
With the government running things here we would hope that they have a real good idea on the costs of all the services that they provide, and this is where I sometimes wish that they would allow some private entities in the system. There is just something in me that thinks that there are things that could be done cheaper, I don't think that it means that they would lose control over things but if they set up a pay schedule based on their costs, and the private sector could do it for less, then maybe we should allow a certain amount of private interest.  
 
I don't think that anyone wants to lose what we have but it would be interesting to see what would happen if a part of the business was farmed out.

west

7/12/2013 12:38:03 PM
Member since:
Oct 2011
Total posts:1102
observation....

Our health care costs are high and will only get worse.If you want to find out what is costing us the most..just go down to the hospital and observe the patients and see if there is a common theme there....

Puffwad

7/12/2013 12:59:07 PM
Member since:
Dec 2007
Total posts:1265
Physicians

Don,  
Part of our system is already 'private', The vast majority of Physicians in Manitoba work for themselves under a 'fee for service' contract with MB Health.  
 
They get paid for every 'service' they report. It's why you get 5 minutes instead of the 15 they are paid for, it's why all those unnecessary tests and interventions are carried out, it's why you get all those prescription drugs!  
 
When someone is getting paid for the service they provide, it isn't always the one that's required or the one that is the most cost effective. Quite often it's the one that pays the provider the most!  
 
Privatising diagnostic testing would likely make it cheaper per unit but it wouldn't save us any money because we'd just be doing more of them!

katwalk1909

7/12/2013 1:16:10 PM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:7093
Lotteries

Rather than having lottery profits thrown into the general budget, some of it should be specified for health care expenses.  
 
For example, the new Western Max could be designated as the health care lottery. Smaller not for profit organizations could then sign on for a week or two of the proceeds. February is Heart and Stroke month so those draws would have the profits going to that foundation. MS has their Carnation drive (in May?) so the draws around that time would result in more change in their coffers. Terry Fox Run in September and Relay for Life in June could receive a portion of the ticket sales.  
 
Other online tickets could work on the same system such as Wednesday's 6-49 directed to children health services. Would you pick up an extra ticket if you knew the proceeds would help children with medical problems? If the Friday MAX went for Senior Health Care, it would be so much easier to part with the $5 for a ticket.  
 
I never get the extra but if the profits were clearly designated to go to a specific health service (i.e., wait line reductions, off hours use of equipment, in home care to get surgical patients released sooner), I may just start adding it to the few that I do purchase.  
 
The Lotteries could gain more customers because the not for profits would do the advertising through their social media links. "Proceeds from this Wednesday's 649 will be used to install a child friendly MRI at the Children's wing of the Health Science Centre" could be tweeted and facebooked to the HSC Foundation members, and they would pass it on to their friends and so on. (It would also be very appropriate to give a few lottery tickets as a birthday gift to someone active with the foundation.)  
 
After the draw, if a big winner purchased the lottery ticket for the purpose of supporting that charity, would they be more likely to share a portion of their winnings with that charity? In Calgary, the Stampeder home opener had their 50-50 draw with the proceeds going to the Red Cross Flood Relief. The winner turned and passed her $30,000+ cheque to the Red Cross.  
 
There still needs to be fiscal management but with a few charities looking over the shoulder, questions will be asked.  
 
 

Puffwad

7/12/2013 1:59:41 PM
Member since:
Dec 2007
Total posts:1265
->:>:<:<:-

  
west said "Our health care costs are high and will only get worse.If you want to find out what is costing us the most..just go down to the hospital and observe the patients and see if there is a common theme there.... "

It isn't a numbers gam when it comes to cost, the most expensive patients are pre-term infants.  
They could be costing 100x what the average inpatient costs!

traveling guy

7/12/2013 2:47:25 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:217

 
 
Edited by traveling guy, 2013-07-12 14:53:32

Whiskers

7/12/2013 4:58:37 PM
Member since:
Apr 2008
Total posts:733
Health care

  
Doug said "I live with a Nurses aid and I have experienced the health care system since the 60's . I note the new expanded Hospital had more offices added than one can shake a stick at.  
 
There also is a reason that private money is needed for the new Murray House. Just go into Winnipeg where people are still in the "hallway" yet it is not recorded. My point is and was that it is not fixed as you claim. Also note Filmon was not spending stupid and everyone including the Libs in Ottawa were spending smart at that time .If you think we can continue to run this spending level especially after 2014 when The Feds include our Hydro revenue then you better open your wallet just to maintain what we have. There is no way at 40 plus percentage of our current budget it can be improved. 34 plus hours before Sinclair died waiting at the ER. Do I blame Selinger or Doer-No. Yet I can tell you from my angle it is no better under the dippers.  
 
Here is one story. A nursing home in Brandon. When it first opened- 5 office staff. Same number of rooms then as now. Same number of Residents as now. Pretty much the same number as front line staff. Office staff is 25. I know that for many reasons more are/were required. Yet From 5 to 25?? A 24/7/7 operation is still a 24/7/7 operation!! Which brings me the expanded General and the fact that even though these homes and the hospital are 24/7/7 the staff parking lots are near empty on weekends. I know there is valid reason for them to be more empty but wow what a difference.  
 
In the 70's there was hallway medicine and still today. I really can not believe you think it is better managed today. Tech wise yet. Cancer care yes in some areas but the waiting lists suck and are growing in many areas and that you can not blame one party. The health care system is broken and needs fixing. Feel free to blame the Tories. I can take apart our current system piece by piece but what does that do??  
 
Health Care is a Provincial chore and The Feds chip in. When we are compared to other Provinces we do not do well. Four terms now and when you look back at when the other guys were in power very little has changed when we compare to other Provinces both then and now.  
 
The thinking in your post is why healthcare will never get fixed in this country. As soon as they start to look at fine examples the world over people scream we not want the American system. They close their eyes because the door to change is open and they do not like any of it.  
 

Edited by admin, 2013-07-12 09:36:01. Reason: title"


Murray House is a place for out of town patients and their families to receive treatment at the Cancer Care Clinic and has nothing to do with  
Hallway medicine. The last Conservative government in Mb. brought in Connie Curran from the USA to make changes to our health care system and paid her over four million dollars , and laid off hundreds of  
Nurses. Most of these nurses moved to the USA after they were trained in Mb., leaving us with a shortage of nurses. I don't think our system is perfect, but I would trust an NDP government to run our health care before a Conservative Gov.  
 
 
 
Edited by , 2013-07-12 17:02:42

don brown

7/12/2013 5:30:51 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4599
Puffwad

I can see your point on it becoming just a numbers game, but for things like a MRI test, or a CT scan, or maybe even some of the minor surgeries, and therapy after surgery where it is part of the treatment plan, do you not think that it would be sort of hard to play the numbers game. I had even thought that maybe post op care might be able to be carried out at a lower cost than actually staying in a hospital, although if a physician and registered nurses had to be on staff, which would make sense, maybe there would be very little in actual savings.  
 
I do like the system that we have, but I do know that going forward it is going to continue to cost more. There are those who do believe that it is inefficiencies that are causing the increases in cost, or waits and delays, but I look at it as a problem that is related to the ever growing field of medicine itself. This idea may rattle a few people, but maybe people should carry insurance to cover the costs of going to the doctor for an initial visit when medical issues arise. This comment may also make people ticked but I sometimes feel there is abuse of our system, not by those who work in it, but by the actual people who use it.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2013-07-12 17:35:34

Heritage

7/12/2013 5:47:16 PM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:415
...

Doug, I'm not sure who this post is a reply to?  
 
Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread. I'm not sure why people think they understand why the system is 'broken' when they obviously don't understand the inner workings if the RHA.  
 
I keep hearing about the'bloated management' but many positions have been cut from 3 people for the regions into 1 person for the new region.  
 
The truth is that the boomers are becoming elderly meaning there are more people needing care, and people are sicker than they've ever been. Also, thankfully we provide more services than in the past.  
 
It sounds nice and easy (when you believe everything CBC tells you) to talk about cutting costs but increasing care but reducing wait times but hiring more nurses but keeping taxeslow.  
 
The fact is that Manitobans are sick and expect good care for themselves and family while Manitobans also want healthcare to be cheap, and Manitobans also expect to be paid a good wage for doing hard jobs (which contributes back into the tax base).  
 
there are a couple thousand employees in the former BRHA and they're just normal people like you so its not a bug scheme

ICYMI

7/12/2013 5:54:44 PM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:3133
..

Health care is fantastic here. Go tell someone in Africa that our health care sucks.  
 
Wait times are fine and in line / acceptable for almost everything. People who are in pain, or trying to figure out what is wrong with them may not want to hear it, but it's true.  
 
The parking lots empty out for various reasons on the weekends and in the evenings. Don't fret managers are working evenings and weekends. So are senior administrators. Diagnostic staff are working off hours to, so are the people booking the exams.  
 
You don't see physicians running clinics though. Don't think you'll find many lab services either. This trickles down and keeps a portion of BSN's at home, and associated support staff. Unions push for Mon - Fri gigs, and load up the work they can in those times.  
 
People simply vastly underestimate the amount of people running through our system.

Heritage

7/12/2013 5:55:05 PM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:415
....

Big scheme about how things work h hidden amidst a select few.  
 

ICYMI

7/12/2013 5:59:51 PM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:3133
-

After all that I do think we should move to a semi-tiered system where those with money, and the willingness to part with it, can purchase one of "x" amounts of slots in a given day to jump the que. The reality is there are routine services whether diagnostic or surgery being performed daily. Nice way for the system to recoup some of the dollars.

Heritage

7/12/2013 6:00:11 PM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:415
.....

Pops that was supposed to be a correction to my first post

Lucille58

7/12/2013 6:20:30 PM
Member since:
Aug 2012
Total posts:239
Sick calls

I would love to find out how much money goes to pay sick time and over time. Many in health care abuse the system. Staff can call in sick on their regular day and get paid for it. If we can't find staff to replace them, we have to offer overtime! If someone works a double shift, they get paid double time, so, one shift can cost approx. $500.00 for a health care aide. I don't know how much a LPN or RN gets paid, but it's much more than that. We have to have sick time, but we should have a system that rewards the ones who don't abuse the system.

Heritage

7/12/2013 6:42:58 PM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:415
......

Remember benefits like sick time are demands from the union.  
 
If you know of staff abusing sick time, you should be informing the employer so they can do something about it.

Lucille58

7/12/2013 8:17:36 PM
Member since:
Aug 2012
Total posts:239
The employer

knows about it, and there's nothing they can do. When something can be done while a new employee is still under probation they don't! I wonder if it's because it would make the employer look bad for hiring an undesirable employee!

ICYMI

7/13/2013 7:59:34 AM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:3133
..

  
Lucille58 said "knows about it, and there's nothing they can do. When something can be done while a new employee is still under probation they don't! I wonder if it's because it would make the employer look bad for hiring an undesirable employee! "

Managers don't care about that. The reality is they are so busy these things fall through the cracks.


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