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Topic: Manitoba workplace safety rules
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traveling guy

3/21/2014 2:46:18 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Manitoba workplace safety rules

To all the people that complain about the businesses shutting down, or charging high prices, here is a sample of the almost monthly changes in regulations these businesses must deal with.  
I can barely understand the wording, but as I understand this, it forces them to make a few more reports, and more formal safety training for waiters and other &quot&#59:learn as you go&quot&#59: jobs.  
No wonder Manitoba is dead last as a place to do business! They declare that their laws are the strongest provincial new-worker orientation provisions in Canada.  
 
http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?item&#61:30141&amp&#59:posted&#61:2014-03-21  
 
Thoughts?

Edited by admin, 2014-03-21 19:44:55. Reason: title

 
 
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slurpeegirl

3/21/2014 5:35:19 PM
Member since:
Feb 2010
Total posts:1176
?

is this the link you meant to post?

on-second-thought

3/21/2014 7:15:05 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:1619
???

  
traveling guy said "To all the people that complain about the businesses shutting down, or charging high prices, here is a sample of the almost monthly changes in regulations these businesses must deal with.  
I can barely understand the wording, but as I understand this, it forces them to make a few more reports, and more formal safety training for waiters and other ";:learn as you go";: jobs.  
No wonder Manitoba is dead last as a place to do business! They declare that their laws are the strongest provincial new-worker orientation provisions in Canada.  
 
http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?item=:30141&;:posted=:2014-03-21  
 
Thoughts? "

Are you talking about the strengthened workplace safety regulations for new workers? If you are, then you need to look outside Manitoba. Right next door in Ontario, the rules are far more strict than in MB. They have mandatory safety certifications for some activities and supervisors there go to jail for breach of duty.  
 
Manitoba has horrible safety stats, especially surrounding new and inexperienced workers. Their Act lacked teeth to do anything about it. This is a good change. A good Safety Program is good business. It protects workers, who dont go to work to get hurt, make crappy employers accountable, and will ultimately save the companies money in WCB premiums.

A.G.

3/21/2014 7:46:09 PM
Member since:
Jan 2010
Total posts:1935
.

The problem is a lot of places don't put any value in workers. They come and go. They will hire whoever -do on the job training and pay a bad wage. Then the person gets injured or moves on to greener pasture. It's a cycle and if they don't have proper training and decent wage they won't retain any employees. If you don't have benefits, or offer incentives like wage increases or bonuses - good luck keeping workers. Having to constantly train new people - costs money , time and reduces productivity.

TEN

3/21/2014 8:22:15 PM
Member since:
Jul 2006
Total posts:2120
-

.providing immediate fines for activities presenting an imminent risk to workers or for backsliding to unsafe conditions after complying with an improvement order,  
•penalizing employers that prevent workers from exercising their legislated safety and health rights,  
•providing Manitoba Workplace Safety and Health the authority to issue a stop-work order to prevent an employer from engaging in a specific task anywhere in the province if that task may place workers at imminent risk of serious injury or illness,  
•clarifying employers’ duties to provide workplace-specific safety and health orientation before a new worker begins work at a workplace or returns to a workplace where the hazards have changed during the worker’s absence under what are now the strongest provincial new-worker orientation provisions in Canada,  
•outlining the role and scope of Manitoba’s new chief prevention officer position including the requirement for an annual injury and illness report, and  
•clarifying the criteria for granting of an exemption from a regulatory provision or safety and health committee requirement for multiple workplaces.  
 
The way they have it worded, pretty much any workplace in MB could be issued a stop work order just by having employees show up for work.  
 
Getting out of bed in the morning could be putting yourself in imminent risk of injury or illness!

jer7

3/21/2014 10:47:15 PM
Member since:
Jan 2010
Total posts:27
.

I have been working in a high risk business for last 10 yrs. We run mainly Cor certified jobs etc. We are continually visited (every 2-3) weeks and never had any infractions. According to this we could be shut down if our safe work procedure do not meet the exact circumstances in which we are we could be shut down. Ie mud snow , etc.  
 
The problem we are having is the kids coming in (which this is targeted at) do not think, which is a product of a our society.  
 
At what point do we say enough is enough?  
How long do we "try to fix stupid"? I am talking fundamental things here. You throw something up, it's going to come back down....seriously happened.  
 
Are consumers willing to pay extra money for someone who abides within work place rules? Or is more utility derived from lowest price?  
 

traveling guy

3/23/2014 6:12:11 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Jobs and hgher costs?

All this will cost someone a lot of money.  
Business will have to make more money or shut down.  
Just wondering if the new training and higher fines are worth the loss of jobs or higher prices we will have to pay.  

The quiet one

3/23/2014 6:20:37 PM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:864
?

So the value of a persons life isn't as important as the workplace being safe???  
 
WOW

cdm975

3/23/2014 6:49:41 PM
Member since:
Jul 2013
Total posts:2
wow

Wow common sense doesn't prevail much either, wow.

traveling guy

3/23/2014 6:49:43 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Yea

Yes, if no one went to work there would be no workplace accidents.  
What a great idea!

on-second-thought

3/23/2014 6:55:34 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:1619
What it really means...

1) providing immediate fines for activities presenting an imminent risk to workers or for backsliding to unsafe conditions after complying with an improvement order  
 
That isn't a change to the regulations, it just gives the enforcement officers more teeth. It applies to a) IMMINENT danger and b) companies who backslide, meaning that they only complied for a short time and went back to bad(unsafe) habits.  
 
2) penalizing employers that prevent workers from exercising their legislated safety and health rights.  
 
Workers have always had the right to refuse work, that's one of the basic rights of workers, and there are a a few bad employers who continue to put people in harms way just to make a buck. That's intentional, and I see nothing bad with penalizing someone for knowingly putting someone at risk, even after the worker has concerns about their safety.  
 
3) providing Manitoba Workplace Safety and Health the authority to issue a stop-work order to prevent an employer from engaging in a specific task anywhere in the province if that task may place workers at imminent risk of serious injury or illness.  
 
Currently, the enforcement officer can only issue a stop work order on a single worksite. This gives them the power to issue an order to the employer to cease the dangerous activity at all their job sites.  
 
4) clarifying employers’ duties to provide workplace-specific safety and health orientation before a new worker begins work at a workplace or returns to a workplace where the hazards have changed during the worker’s absence under what are now the strongest provincial new-worker orientation provisions in Canada.  
 
This is not a change - its a clarification. Everyone should have a briefing on the hazards in their workplace before they are exposed. What's the down side of this?  
 
•outlining the role and scope of Manitoba’s new chief prevention officer position including the requirement for an annual injury and illness report,  
 
Big deal, companies have to provide an annual report. That's hardly a show stopper, and pretty much on par with the rest of the country.  
 
•clarifying the criteria for granting of an exemption from a regulatory provision or safety and health committee requirement for multiple workplaces.  
 
Again, its just clarification on what low risk industries can be granted exemptions for committees. No change here...  
 
These new rules will not change a darn thing for companies that are already doing things right.  
 
Look at BC and Ontario to see what the industry standard is, Manitoba is just catching up.  
 
Edited by on-second-thought, 2014-03-23 19:02:52

traveling guy

3/23/2014 7:01:01 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Formal Training?

What small business can afford formal training on all the danger zones in the workplace?  
ie If a glass is dropped and shatters in the restaurant, do we have to shut down the workplace until someone comes along that has formal training in this matter?

braid

3/23/2014 7:04:58 PM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:5329
seriously

New, young people in the work force can be intimidated into doing things thst are unsafe..simple as that. They may be afraid to say no for fear of looseing their jobs or not even realise it is unsafe because if poor training.  
Anyone who has ever lost a friend or family member to work related injury such as I have realizes work place health & saftey rules are a darn good thing.

on-second-thought

3/23/2014 7:12:15 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:1619
No

  
traveling guy said "What small business can afford formal training on all the danger zones in the workplace?  
ie If a glass is dropped and shatters in the restaurant, do we have to shut down the workplace until someone comes along that has formal training in this matter? "

The level of training will be on the level of risk, and the hazards associated with the task.  
 
A glass dropping is a normal condition that can not really be fully mitigated through controls,(Engineered/administrative or PPE) So, what kind of training could the employer be reasonably able to provide? In this case, the location of the first aid kits, perhaps clean up procedures, and injury reporting procedures would suffice. If there was blood involved, perhaps how to safety clean up blood to avoid exposures to blood-borne pathogens. That's not unreasonable for any workplace.  
 
It comes down to 1) Identifying the hazards that exist in the workplace, 2) assessing those hazards for potential harm (frequency of exposure and severity of injury), and based on the assessed risk, implementing reasonable controls.  
 
 
 
Edited by on-second-thought, 2014-03-23 19:13:05

traveling guy

3/23/2014 7:16:39 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Not a bad thing

I am not saying the current rules were a bad thing.  
I am thinking the doubling of the fines and doubling of the enforcement people may be a big burden on many small businesses.  
At what point does common sense just apply?  
Formal training on a a shovel can cost a lot of money and not really help a lot.  
Extra fines and more paperwork on some businesses just makes them say it is not worth it and shut down.  
An overzealous officer can easily shut down a small business now, twice as many just make sure they are always in your face and taking your valuable time.

on-second-thought

3/23/2014 7:18:00 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:1619
well

  
traveling guy said "What small business can afford formal training on all the danger zones in the workplace?  
ie If a glass is dropped and shatters in the restaurant, do we have to shut down the workplace until someone comes along that has formal training in this matter? "

since you seem to be hung up on what formal training means, I will explain.  
 
It does not necessarily mean spending money hiring a consultant or formal trainer, it means that it is scheduled and documented. So, when you start a job, the first day as part of the orientation, you are briefed on the hazards, how to protect yourself and what to do in an emergency.  
It could mean formal training in some things, such as confined space entry/falls from heights. Its not good enough to simply tell a worker to work safe, you must tell them how.  
 
There is nothing common about common sense.

traveling guy

3/23/2014 7:20:21 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Wondering

I am wondering how many people in restaurants now have formal training in this?  
Would we need more training to do this work?

traveling guy

3/23/2014 7:41:33 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Another scenario

I send three men out to dig a hole.  
I give them formal and documented training on how to use a shovel, and a hand pick.  
On the job site they encounter a very old tree root. Man A has been doing this for years, so just borrows an axe and cuts it. He has had extensive experience with the axe, but no formal training.  
Enforcement see him with this dangerous tool and asks him if he has had formal training on it.  
Jobsite is shut down and I am fined?

BigDaddy 2

3/23/2014 8:17:48 PM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:778
Man you

  
traveling guy said "I send three men out to dig a hole.  
I give them formal and documented training on how to use a shovel, and a hand pick.  
On the job site they encounter a very old tree root. Man A has been doing this for years, so just borrows an axe and cuts it. He has had extensive experience with the axe, but no formal training.  
Enforcement see him with this dangerous tool and asks him if he has had formal training on it.  
Jobsite is shut down and I am fined? "

are really hung up on this! There is also the fact that man taking an axe can deem himself a Competent Worker. I have never had any "formal" training on putting tire chains onto trucks (pick ups or semis), but after 4 years of running trucks in the oil patch and working 1 year on pole/bed trucks (which meant sometimes putting chains on and off 12+ times a move) I am a "Competent" person to train people how to safely put tire chains onto tires. Which would be sufficient enough for oh&s to be ok with.  
 
I don't know if I have been in the patch to long working under other provinces rules (even while working in Mb) but this is and has been being done for years in other provinces. I have to document all on the job training for my employees right down to using a pressure washer. Yes it is silly, but there is NO such thing as Common Sense anymore in the work place. That is a word that should (as much as it pains me cause I am a firm believer of common sense)be removed from our language! What is common to you may not be common to me.  
I also do not see this really effecting the restaurant industry or what oh&s deem to be a low risk industry. Carpentry, oil patch, industrial settings and that sort of things they will be hitting. Or higher incident work places (maybe senior homes with high back injuries among the staff). But I don't know if to many wcb claims come from a shattered glass, but if it was reoccurring maybe they would investigate it.

orangevibe

3/23/2014 10:49:53 PM
Member since:
Jan 2013
Total posts:42
Ontario

Sorry to say but Ontario laws are way more strict on this stuff. Manitoba is just getting up to par. An Ontario labour inspector is the scariest person to have visit your business - can shut you down in a moments notice.  
 
Just make sure your young workers know their rights and they sign off on your h&s policies. During initial orientation this should already be getting done. No one wants to have a worker hurt on the job. It's a terrible feeling. Accidents happen but if there's a way to prevent them, we should do everything we can.

Opinionated

3/24/2014 6:45:23 AM
Member since:
May 2009
Total posts:2854
this is a good thing

There are still enough employers around here that don't follow the rules. I know several people who have lost fingers at the same business on the same machine because they were forced to use it without any training at all. One of the people tried to refuse, but at 19 didn't have the confidence to stand his ground.  
 
Honestly, the only businesses that need to worry are the ones already not following the rules. Job safety is good for everyone. If you get fined and shut down, I'll be glad an unsafe business is no longer operating, not sad we lost a business.  
 
As for common sense, sounds like travelling guy is lacking in it with all of his over the top scenarios.

braid

3/24/2014 9:54:46 AM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:5329
well

  
traveling guy said "I am wondering how many people in restaurants now have formal training in this?  
Would we need more training to do this work? "

You could try getting a job in BC were you must have a 'food saftey course' before you can even be a bus boy ( person? ) . Those courses aren't cheap to take either! ..

JR

3/24/2014 11:28:13 AM
Member since:
Nov 2007
Total posts:1804
...

Common sense really doesn't enter the picture here. Remember, when it comes to our young workers, we are dealing with a generation of people that think it is safe to text while driving. Add to that the inherent "invincibility" factor that young people experience until they mature and it's a recipe for workplace disaster. With that, there are always going to be managers and bosses who are more than willing to push employees into doing unsafe things just to get the job done. As much as I hate to say it, sometimes, you actually DO have to hold their hands and walk them through it.  


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