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Discussion Groups: Automotive


Topic: Removing catylitc converters
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JustanotherNobody

3/21/2015 6:45:04 PM
Member since:
Jan 2012
Total posts:218
Removing catylitc converters

First off I probably spelled catlwhatever wrong. I'm curious about removing my converters from my 94 Lincoln mark viii. I tried to remove them from my 98 Town car but it didn't pan out to well. It caused a problem with the computer. My lawn mower has more power. Im curious if I will have the same problem with my Mark VIII.

 
 
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Michele_Cody

3/21/2015 6:51:48 PM
Member since:
Jul 2011
Total posts:292
dont

Remove them, just gut them out shove a rod or bar in the and smash all the ceramic out of them.

krunch

3/21/2015 10:22:55 PM
Member since:
Dec 2005
Total posts:2243
.

Yup, you will likely have the same problem. The reason is because your PCM has O2 sensors pre, and post cat monitoring the condition of the cat to see if it's working. By deleting the cat, of course you caused the PCM to see a failure (removal) of the cat and adjusted its fueling accordingly which explains why your lawn mower had more power. The proper way to do it is to install a sensor post cat that "Spoofs" the computer into thinking that the cat is still there, or, you need to modify the programming in your PCM to delete the codes that are associated with a cat failure. Now, why would you do this anyway? A cat is not very flow restrictive and if you think you were going to gain horsepower, it's minimal at best. You'd probably get better gains from a K&N filter and it cheaper than cutting up your exhaust.  
 
Krunch

fargobob

3/21/2015 10:28:47 PM
Member since:
Nov 2005
Total posts:3497
Converters

First and foremost, It's illegal to remove or otherwise disable the converters. I know they're expensive but there are aftermarket converters available that make the job a whole lot more affordable.  
 
Second, the electronics in your 94 are different than a 98 would be. The computer in a 94 can't tell if the converters are there BUT the difference in back pressure caused by removing the converters could create a problem with the EGR position sensor and set a trouble code under the right conditions.

krunch

3/21/2015 10:36:48 PM
Member since:
Dec 2005
Total posts:2243
..

I got the years of your cars reversed. I thought this didn't work for your you 94 and now you were asking about doing it on your 98. Regardless of its OBD1 or OBD2, it's still a waste of time. Just replace the stupid thing if it's ruined, or don't consider deleting it if you are after performance gains.  
 
Krunch

fargobob

3/21/2015 10:37:13 PM
Member since:
Nov 2005
Total posts:3497
Note

A 94 lincoln is pre OBD II. It only has upstream O2 sensors, no post cat (downstream) sensors.

username

3/22/2015 12:58:07 PM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:63
not illegal on a 94

 
j) catalytic converter - (Applies to motor vehicles manufactured on or after Ianuary 1, 1995)  
k) emission control equipment - (Applies to "motor vehicles manufactu~ed on or after Ianuary 1, 1995)  
copied from the Vehicle Standards Handbook, go ahead and remove the cats, it is legal on a 1994. Like others have stated you may still have a problem with your check engine light coming on.

fargobob

3/22/2015 1:15:09 PM
Member since:
Nov 2005
Total posts:3497
Questionable advice

  
username said "  
j) catalytic converter - (Applies to motor vehicles manufactured on or after Ianuary 1, 1995)  
k) emission control equipment - (Applies to "motor vehicles manufactu~ed on or after Ianuary 1, 1995)  
copied from the Vehicle Standards Handbook, go ahead and remove the cats, it is legal on a 1994. Like others have stated you may still have a problem with your check engine light coming on. "

While I have seen many vehicles of widely differing ages with the converters removed, it is illegal regardless of the age of the vehicle.  
 
The information you are quoting is from the Manitoba Vehicle Standards Handbook. It states whether or not a vehicle inspector can pass a vehicle for a Manitoba Safety Inspection. This has nothing to do with Provincial or Federal Vehicle emission laws and standards. Emission standards can be enforced outside of the Manitoba Vehicle Standards guidelines.

Goodtimes56

3/22/2015 2:20:26 PM
Member since:
Dec 2013
Total posts:90
cat

You can buy high glowing cats to make sure you're clean and still get the exhaust flow. Magnaflow makes some. Probably a lot of options out there for you.

canadianpatriot

3/22/2015 2:44:05 PM
Member since:
Dec 2014
Total posts:78
Surprised...

If the O2 sensor is before you Cat Combustor, removal shouldn't effect for fuel injection. I removed mine and with the reduced back pressure, it ran great. No issue with fuel supply or timing, etc...(although it was a different make, same vintage.)

krunch

3/22/2015 2:48:55 PM
Member since:
Dec 2005
Total posts:2243
..

If you only have one O2 sensor it is before the cat and only uses data to adjust fueling. If a second O2 sensor is installed post cat the PCM compares data from both O2 sensors to determine functionality of the cat.  
 
If you remove the cat, on a 2 O2 system the readings are identical indicating a cat failure (or removal).  
 
Krunch

Garret

3/22/2015 4:23:42 PM
Member since:
Sep 2008
Total posts:623
94

94 has no downstream O2 sensor you are fine

JustanotherNobody

3/22/2015 5:07:59 PM
Member since:
Jan 2012
Total posts:218
Excellent!!

Thanks for the input.

Trevor

3/22/2015 9:06:04 PM
Member since:
Mar 2008
Total posts:1913
...

As many others have said you're fine to remove them. Also given the age of the car it will still pass a safety without them. I've done it several times to vehicles that era without issue.

gearhead52

3/22/2015 9:52:17 PM
Member since:
Jul 2009
Total posts:63
Test first, cut later.

Many times I have seen older cars in the shop for a poor power complaint, and the problem still existed after the customer cut out the converter (s). If you suspect a plugged converter, perhaps performing an exhaust back pressure test will help you in determining if your converter is plugged. It is a test by which a sensitive low pressure gauge is installed where the oxygen sensor threads into your exhaust. If you have more than 3psi or so of back pressure when revving or working the throttle, a restriction exists. There should be 0 pressure at idle. Also, if the converter is plugged, it might be a great time to ask why it's plugged in the first place. Possible oil burning, poor tune or engine misfiring, can contribute to plugging or even overheating/melting of the ceramic substrate. If oil burning is present, it's likely time for an engine overhaul or replacement soon anyways. If so then cut the cat and drive until the engine finally konks out for good.


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