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Topic: Did we get a carbon tax in Manitoba?
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Geodin

1/5/2017 10:10:57 AM
Member since:
Aug 2012
Total posts:38
Did we get a carbon tax in Manitoba?

Looking at the price of gas at the pumps, you would be hard pressed to justify the cost considering that Manitoba did not bring a carbon tax on our gas on Jan 1.  
 
Of course this is price gouging by the various companies that always collude together to jack the price up over holidays and special occasions.  
 
Gas buddy says there's still a few spots in town that are at 102.9 so fill up if you can.

Tagged as: gas,  gasoline,  carbon tax,  ripoff,  
 
 
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TheScotsman

1/5/2017 10:28:26 AM
Member since:
Nov 2016
Total posts:101
Gas

Price of oil has jumped 50% over the last two years, Canadian dollar has fallen 35%. That is an 85% swing added to the price of gas from when it was at its lowest.

Vegasking

1/5/2017 11:57:03 AM
Member since:
Oct 2016
Total posts:8
Info

  
TheScotsman said "Price of oil has jumped 50% over the last two years, Canadian dollar has fallen 35%. That is an 85% swing added to the price of gas from when it was at its lowest. "

The crude price in Jan of '15 was $48 compared to $54 today. Hardly a %50 increase. Gas on the other hand was .80 cents. Canadian dollar was at .86 compared to .76 today. Not sure this combination is enough for me to believe in a 35% increase in price at the pump.

JessieJay

1/5/2017 12:05:15 PM
Member since:
Mar 2016
Total posts:171
So

what is the gas price today?? I'm not in town-the signs I saw yesterday we're still 102.9

don brown

1/5/2017 12:40:05 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4175
Are we getting gouged

Click on the link, and read the highlights from last weeks report, it states in the US motor gasoline inventories rose and are at the upper range of average inventory.  
 
https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/supply/weekly/pdf/wpsrall.pdf  
 
Inventories go up, and yet prices go up, so much for the free market system, wished it worked this way for agriculture products.

Doug

1/5/2017 1:43:32 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6715
carbon tax

Details are still being worked out. A national roll out soon.  
 
The last I heard either Manitoba has a version that is considered a carbon tax or they will implement one.  
 
I think it is the latter. Agree with it or not it should be optional how a Province controls CO2 growth. Manitoba with it's upcoming dams etc.  
 
The mere fact that whatever the percentage or price per ton It would  be forced on a Province by the Feds who do want in.  Justin blew this one.  
 
The Feds would collect x millions from Saskatchewan commuters/farmers/delivery companies etc. Then turn around and give it all back to Saskatchewan to spread that coin around in rebates or some make work project.  
 
At least carbon tax has far less loop holes that cap and trade. The tax starts in 2018 at 10 bucks a ton and rises pretty quick to 50.  
 
For Urban and City folks with a multitude of options to travel from transit/bike or footmobile ok. It will hurt rural folks companies and farmers hardest.  
 
Edited by Doug, 2017-01-05 13:48:40

Derek81

1/5/2017 4:38:22 PM
Member since:
Dec 2010
Total posts:243
..

  
Doug said "Details are still being worked out. A national roll out soon.  
 
The last I heard either Manitoba has a version that is considered a carbon tax or they will implement one.  
 
I think it is the latter. Agree with it or not it should be optional how a Province controls CO2 growth. Manitoba with it's upcoming dams etc.  
 
The mere fact that whatever the percentage or price per ton It would  be forced on a Province by the Feds who do want in.  Justin blew this one.  
 
The Feds would collect x millions from Saskatchewan commuters/farmers/delivery companies etc. Then turn around and give it all back to Saskatchewan to spread that coin around in rebates or some make work project.  
 
At least carbon tax has far less loop holes that cap and trade. The tax starts in 2018 at 10 bucks a ton and rises pretty quick to 50.  
 
For Urban and City folks with a multitude of options to travel from transit/bike or footmobile ok. It will hurt rural folks companies and farmers hardest.  
 
Edited by Doug, 2017-01-05 13:48:40"

From what I understand in Alberta city transit services do not qualify for an exemption: So you either:  
A) still drive your car, pay the tax when you fill or  
 
B) ride the transit system, where eventually fares or municipal taxes will increase to cover the costs of the carbon tax  
 
it seems to me either way you choose: you''ll be paying for the carbon tax whether you choose to drive, ride the bus, walk or bike to work.  
 
Personally, Canada's population makes up 0.5% of the Worlds population, and we emit 1.6% of the Worlds carbon emissions... until we get China, US, EU, India and Russia on board, our drop in the bucket is not going to affect change on a global scale, keep the money in our pockets till the big boys come to play.  
 
Edited by Derek81, 2017-01-05 16:48:15

HankTank

1/5/2017 8:58:45 PM
Member since:
Feb 2007
Total posts:27
Trudeau

This is all our idiot Prime Minister's hairbrained scheme. The guy has no clue as to the value of a dollar since he's never worked a day in his life. The worst PM in Canadian history.

swmb

1/5/2017 10:55:08 PM
Member since:
Dec 2013
Total posts:311
Maybe

  
HankTank said "This is all our idiot Prime Minister's hairbrained scheme. The guy has no clue as to the value of a dollar since he's never worked a day in his life. The worst PM in Canadian history. "

But the guy we had before will run a close second. Maybe Kevin o Leary will turn things around. Hope someone does. Also hope Trudeau is the worst pm ever as that means it will all get better from here on.

ultraguy

1/5/2017 11:17:58 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:1033
.

  
HankTank said "This is all our idiot Prime Minister's hairbrained scheme. The guy has no clue as to the value of a dollar since he's never worked a day in his life. The worst PM in Canadian history. "

Oh please. He was a teacher for a few years. Or does that not count as working?

Hey!

1/5/2017 11:36:57 PM
Member since:
Sep 2010
Total posts:57
.

No. Saskatchewan and Manitoba didn't sign on.

Marpet

1/6/2017 2:34:41 AM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:522
The argument seems to be...

....that since our impact (1.6%) is so small we should do nothing. The big players (China, US, India) will say "we won't do anything unless they do". In the end, nothing gets done. (China is, by the way).  
 
The point has been missed. The carbon tax is about making us think. People are losing their minds because our way of doing things will cost more.  
 
Yeah! That's the point!  
 
If you had to pay the true cost of things, maybe the Escalade to make a grocery run wouldn't the make the cut.  
Maybe if food cost a little more, Canadian's wouldn't throw away $31 billion of it a year. Google it.  
People bitch about Trudeau spending $150 million on African education, while the government offers tax breaks to profitable companies!?!  
 
We, as a society, one of the richest in the history of the world, spend our money on the wrong things.  
Unless you are willing to involve yourself and write your MP to voice your opinion, what are you bitching about. Your MP is the only voice you have in Ottawa.  
 
4.5 cents at the pump? Phhht! Guess I have a choice to make.  
 
Marpet

HankTank

1/6/2017 7:26:49 AM
Member since:
Feb 2007
Total posts:27
Teacher

Yes, a substitute teacher. Impeccable credentials for the leader of a nation.  
 
And Marpet, we are taxed enough around here. This carbon tax is brutal. Cut the bloated bureaucracy and take the money from there to fund environmental programs.

unbreakable1

1/6/2017 7:39:41 AM
Member since:
Jun 2005
Total posts:1125
-

  
Marpet said "....that since our impact (1.6%) is so small we should do nothing. The big players (China, US, India) will say "we won't do anything unless they do". In the end, nothing gets done. (China is, by the way).  
 
The point has been missed. The carbon tax is about making us think. People are losing their minds because our way of doing things will cost more.  
 
Yeah! That's the point!  
 
If you had to pay the true cost of things, maybe the Escalade to make a grocery run wouldn't the make the cut.  
Maybe if food cost a little more, Canadian's wouldn't throw away $31 billion of it a year. Google it.  
People bitch about Trudeau spending $150 million on African education, while the government offers tax breaks to profitable companies!?!  
 
We, as a society, one of the richest in the history of the world, spend our money on the wrong things.  
Unless you are willing to involve yourself and write your MP to voice your opinion, what are you bitching about. Your MP is the only voice you have in Ottawa.  
 
4.5 cents at the pump? Phhht! Guess I have a choice to make.  
 
Marpet "

Atleast that Esscalade won''t get stuck in snow as easily as compared to let's say a Smart car.  
 
Sorry Marpet, we are taxed enough and see enough of our taxes get wasted. Brad Wall had the right idea in calling our Prime Minister a Piece of Slime (I don''t think eBrandon will let me use the s word). In short, the carbon tax is a scam and a half. If you have 4.5 cents for everybody to borrow, let us know.  
 
Edited by unbreakable1, 2017-01-06 07:40:38

Marpet

1/6/2017 9:50:05 AM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:522
If you want to drive....

...the Escalade, drive it. Don't whine about the price of gas. There are more economical choices that won't leave you stuck in the snow.  
 
If you want to live in a 2500 square foot home, live in one. Don't complain about the cost to heat it. Studies have shown that people are no happier in larger spaces with more stuff.  
 
"I wish everybody could be rich just to see that it isn't the answer." - Jim Carrey  
 
If your happy throwing away food that is still edible, be my guest but don't whine about the cost of your grocery bill. Almost half of the produce grown in Canada is disposed of because it doest meet the "visual" quality for the store. It doesn't look good. It's not given to the food banks but thrown away. How much time and energy goes into producing food just to throw it away? That cost is reflected on the price of the produce on the shelf.  
 
If your happy with living like this, go ahead. You don't need my approval and feel free to ignore my opinion. I'm not and a carbon tax will  
make us start paying the true cost of things.  
 
I support that idea, and the model works in other parts of the world. I hope that we as Canadians can be a leader.  
 
Marpet

stonepicker

1/6/2017 12:20:10 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:203
Nope

No it doesn't work in other parts of the world, austrailia got rid of their carbon tax because it didn't work. Canada is an arctic/sub arctic nation, to charge us more for trying to keep warm in winter is ludicrous. Some agree with another tax, i feel you've been duped. We need less gov. waste not more taxes.

Marpet

1/6/2017 12:33:48 PM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:522
Nope, it does work in other parts of the world.

  
stonepicker said "No it doesn't work in other parts of the world, austrailia got rid of their carbon tax because it didn't work. Canada is an arctic/sub arctic nation, to charge us more for trying to keep warm in winter is ludicrous. Some agree with another tax, i feel you've been duped. We need less gov. waste not more taxes. "

https://blogs.ubc.ca/rosonluo/2013/02/07/finlands-carbon-tax-system/  
 
Switzerland $141/tonne  
Denmark -$107/tonne  
Iceland - $100/tonne  
Norway - $123/tonne  
 
All cold winter climates and the taxation has worked there (since 1990 for Finland). They pay way more for fuel than we do and the infrastructure for electric vehicles is way more advanced than here.  
 
Agree completely that gov. waste is a huge problem.  
 
Marpet

traveling guy

1/6/2017 1:13:38 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:212
Taxes

Biggest part of our gas price is already taxes. Almost two thirds of what we pay.

stonepicker

1/6/2017 1:20:00 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:203
nice article

Those are all small countries and why they want to charge that much is up to them. Canada is a huge country and people have to travel a lot more here. I don't believe everything i read though, when articles like this point to co2 as the sole cause for global warming ( and some articles show that the earth is actually in a cooling trend ) How come there is never any mention of all the other factors? Like el nino, la nina, solar activity, long term weather patterns, volcanic activity, ( the earth cooled 1 degree F when mt. pinatubo erupted in 1991 ) , the fact that a lot of reporting weather stations that used to be in the country are now in urban ares because of urban sprawl ( and everyone knows that cities create their own micro climate, as in warmer. etc. It's just another excuse to introduce another tax. Plants need co2 btw to survive ( they turn it into oxygen ) We need more co2.

don brown

1/6/2017 1:42:20 PM
Member since:
Aug 2010
Total posts:4175
Population density

Marpet, you listed countries that it does work, but if they were going to apply it to parts of the country that have a high density of population I wouldn't have much propblem with it, but our country has a completely different picture when it comes to population density, as well as distances to move freight or products.  
Taxes should be fair, but many of them are not, many of those who work at designing new taxes do not look at the diversity of our courntry, or even social programs in some of these other countries when making models. We have gone through a great depopulation of most of rural Canada, and taxes like this just add to the problem, it will increase costs for everything outside of major centres, things like transporting kids to school will become more expensive, as long as everything else. Even with in certain sectors, like agriculture, will credits be the same for all producers, or will they pick on certain sectors, sometimes wonder if they will co after people who compost in their backyards, or will they provide credits to those who have wood lots or forsted areas on their property. All growing matter (flora) traps carbon dioxide. Maybe if we want to get it right how bout rewarding those who have been, or are doing what is already right.  
 
Have to agree with your comments on being such a wasteful society, and in many regards it is becoming worse, producing items that have a shorter live span, is one of my greatest peaves, but a capitalist, materialistic society needs it to survived, I think we're hooped.

steveo

1/6/2017 2:03:08 PM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:339
gas

is 103 in Winnipeg, what a rip off 107 here

Fishin Guy

1/6/2017 2:05:48 PM
Member since:
Dec 2005
Total posts:5800
...

  
Marpet said "
  
stonepicker said "No it doesn't work in other parts of the world, austrailia got rid of their carbon tax because it didn't work. Canada is an arctic/sub arctic nation, to charge us more for trying to keep warm in winter is ludicrous. Some agree with another tax, i feel you've been duped. We need less gov. waste not more taxes. "

https://blogs.ubc.ca/rosonluo/2013/02/07/finlands-carbon-tax-system/  
 
Switzerland $141/tonne  
Denmark -$107/tonne  
Iceland - $100/tonne  
Norway - $123/tonne  
 
All cold winter climates and the taxation has worked there (since 1990 for Finland). They pay way more for fuel than we do and the infrastructure for electric vehicles is way more advanced than here.  
 
Agree completely that gov. waste is a huge problem.  
 
Marpet "

Google map those countries. How is that even close to comparing to Canada? They have to travel worst case from one end of country to other is about 800km. From Vancouver to Quebec City is almost 6000km. That is almost 8 times the distance we need to have goods travel. Some of the smaller countries are 400km across. That is the size of one of our provinces. Save the earth electric cars would be lucky to get us to Winnipeg then would need to be charged. Canada is too vast to just go electric. Having Hybird vehicles or electric drive the cost way up. Unless you only stayed in the city I cannot justify a 40 grand vehicle to drive around the city.

Marpet

1/6/2017 4:07:37 PM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:522
I'm sure that models take into...

...account natural processes such as la nina, el nino (which are results of climate conditions, not long term drivers of global climate change) and volcanic activity as well as solar eruptions (which are drivers in climate models). I will point out that these are natural processes though. The introduction of vast carbon storage dumps through mining and gas extraction is not a natural process. These activities are not only subsidized by almost all governments around the world but we only pay for the energy within the fuel, not the carbon that is released and polluting our environment. The idea that we need more co2 because plants need it is just juvenile. That argument wouldn't make sense even if we weren't actively destroying the very forests that we need to process all of this extra carbon. We need more co2? Venus would disagree with you (and before the trolls jump on that, no I don't imply that humans caused Venus' runaway climate change. I use it as an example of what can happen here, at an accelerated rate due to our complete ignorance to what our effect on the environment is and denying that we could have an effect on the environment. Weather stations being effected by urban sprawl is a perfect example of an unnatural process effecting our environment. Thanks for proving my point.  
 
Asking how credits will be distributed is a jumping the gun as we haven't seen the plan that Manitoba will table and I'm sure it will be a disappointment to some but to say it can't work is an example of "I don't want to be inconvenienced so don't make me change, even if it is for the better" kind of thinking.  
Will everything cost more? Yes, that's the point. If everything costs more maybe we won't be so damned wasteful all the time. Saying we need wasteful commerce to keep people employed is like implying we need to keep people unhealthy so we can keep nurses and doctors employed. That doesn't sound to logical to me but I'm sure the business leaders and big pharma would agree with it. Is there other ways we could employ people that doesn't require polluting our environment? Where's the innovation? The willingness to try new things and do things better?  
 
Yes, Canada is huge. So we shouldn't try? If you need to go from Vancouver to Halifax, maybe a flight would be better than driving. Although flying has its footprint, it is spread out over all the passengers, so not as larger per person. Even with a carbon tax, flights are said to increase by less than $10 per person...seems reasonable.  
All our goods travel long distances....maybe you don't need apples in January shipped from California or Peru. Maybe you buy your fruit local in season and learn to store it for the winter, but why would we want to be sustainable, that's to hard. (That's because we're lazy by the way.)  
Electric vehicles can't make the trip? Not in the current state of the infrastructure but as cars improve and battery tech improves and greener sources of electricity come on line, your argument will be mute. The 2017 Chevy Bolt has 350 km range and will take a full charge in 9.5 hours. It will also be able to take a 145 km charge in 30 minutes which means you have more than enough range to drive to Wpg and back in the same day. The problem right now is the lack of infrastructure. With government incentives it will cost under $30000 which is inline with similar ICE vehicles. Not to mention the fuel savings over the life of the vehicle.  
http://www.chevrolet.ca/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html  
 
We have done things the same for almost 200 years, maybe its time to try something different.  
 
Marpet  
 
Edited by Marpet, 2017-01-06 16:11:28

Triplethreat

1/6/2017 4:25:58 PM
Member since:
Oct 2010
Total posts:793
Be A Good Little Citizen Of The New World Order...

...and happily pay your Carbon Tax, when in fact, we should do nothing. The whole thing is nothing but a giant scam, which of course is kept going in part by mainly government funded "climate research scientists" who would otherwise be out of a job, huge multi-national corporations who have jumped on the green bandwagon simply to make a fast buck some of these own large mainstream media networks, the higher ups in the self serving so-called "non-profit" big green activist groups like the one that built the multi billion dollar development at Canary Wharf for example, foreign governments, many of which are either communist or are run by brutal corrupt dictators who see the climate change agenda as a way to weaken America and other still somewhat free western countries like Canada, Australia and the UK. It is the cornerstone of their dream, a one world United Nations government where individual nations would be nothing more than provinces, if that. Looking around the world, it''s pretty safe to say that it wouldn''t be modelled after any of the western democracies, but rather would be most influenced by communist regimes, terrorist supporting ideologies and tin horn thugs. If you don''t feel represented in Ottawa now, just imagine what it will be like when the capital city of the highest level of government is half way around the world. You won''t have any say in anything at all. The Carbon Tax, which is intended to help fund these "world wide initiatives", is the first of many "world taxes" that will be coming our way. The whole thing is part of a scam designed to take away the sovereignty of individual nations and pave the way for the one world collective government. Of course, that''s one of the reasons that the communist, socialist and anarchist types in our country love it.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2017-01-06 16:29:30

LoadedGun

1/6/2017 4:33:56 PM
Member since:
Oct 2011
Total posts:151
Yes

  
Marpet said "...account natural processes such as la nina, el nino (which are results of climate conditions, not long term drivers of global climate change) and volcanic activity as well as solar eruptions (which are drivers in climate models). I will point out that these are natural processes though. The introduction of vast carbon storage dumps through mining and gas extraction is not a natural process. These activities are not only subsidized by almost all governments around the world but we only pay for the energy within the fuel, not the carbon that is released and polluting our environment. The idea that we need more co2 because plants need it is just juvenile. That argument wouldn't make sense even if we weren't actively destroying the very forests that we need to process all of this extra carbon. We need more co2? Venus would disagree with you (and before the trolls jump on that, no I don't imply that humans caused Venus' runaway climate change. I use it as an example of what can happen here, at an accelerated rate due to our complete ignorance to what our effect on the environment is and denying that we could have an effect on the environment. Weather stations being effected by urban sprawl is a perfect example of an unnatural process effecting our environment. Thanks for proving my point.  
 
Asking how credits will be distributed is a jumping the gun as we haven't seen the plan that Manitoba will table and I'm sure it will be a disappointment to some but to say it can't work is an example of "I don't want to be inconvenienced so don't make me change, even if it is for the better" kind of thinking.  
Will everything cost more? Yes, that's the point. If everything costs more maybe we won't be so damned wasteful all the time. Saying we need wasteful commerce to keep people employed is like implying we need to keep people unhealthy so we can keep nurses and doctors employed. That doesn't sound to logical to me but I'm sure the business leaders and big pharma would agree with it. Is there other ways we could employ people that doesn't require polluting our environment? Where's the innovation? The willingness to try new things and do things better?  
 
Yes, Canada is huge. So we shouldn't try? If you need to go from Vancouver to Halifax, maybe a flight would be better than driving. Although flying has its footprint, it is spread out over all the passengers, so not as larger per person. Even with a carbon tax, flights are said to increase by less than $10 per person...seems reasonable.  
All our goods travel long distances....maybe you don't need apples in January shipped from California or Peru. Maybe you buy your fruit local in season and learn to store it for the winter, but why would we want to be sustainable, that's to hard. (That's because we're lazy by the way.)  
Electric vehicles can't make the trip? Not in the current state of the infrastructure but as cars improve and battery tech improves and greener sources of electricity come on line, your argument will be mute. The 2017 Chevy Bolt has 350 km range and will take a full charge in 9.5 hours. It will also be able to take a 145 km charge in 30 minutes which means you have more than enough range to drive to Wpg and back in the same day. The problem right now is the lack of infrastructure. With government incentives it will cost under $30000 which is inline with similar ICE vehicles. Not to mention the fuel savings over the life of the vehicle.  
http://www.chevrolet.ca/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html  
 
We have done things the same for almost 200 years, maybe its time to try something different.  
 
Marpet  
 
Edited by Marpet, 2017-01-06 16:11:28"

You make alot of valid points, and ones that I agree with.  
 
It comes to a time when we have to realize that the way things are going, by our governments instituting alternate control systems in order to 'help' push us in the right direction aren't being so effective. People definitely feel the increased burden and strains from these increases, but do they ever stop to consider the reason behind it? Sadly, people don't often bother in this province. Instead, we have these little forums to complain on.  
 
Well, how many people are willing to write to their MP with their disagreements? Or go out and make a positive change for their lives? Interestingly enough, not many. But when it comes to month end, and you may be scraping your pennies together, your sure gonna be gritting your teeth.  
 
There are more progressive methods to addressing the issues. They have been around for decades. Buried by big oil. Slowly, we are seeing the shift coming into place. Embrace it or not Manitoba, change will come.

HankTank

1/6/2017 4:41:18 PM
Member since:
Feb 2007
Total posts:27
Pay more

Sure, lets just make everything more expensive. Then the bleeding hearts will be out in full force that people can't afford to eat anymore blah blah blah. Then they will raise our taxes to redistribute the wealth.  
 
It is a never ending, and predictable circle.

Classified

1/6/2017 4:41:23 PM
Member since:
Sep 2009
Total posts:409
hmmm...

  
Triplethreat said "...and happily pay your Carbon Tax, when in fact, we should do nothing. The whole thing is nothing but a giant scam, which of course is kept going in part by mainly government funded "climate research scientists" who would otherwise be out of a job, huge multi-national corporations who have jumped on the green bandwagon simply to make a fast buck some of these own large mainstream media networks, the higher ups in the self serving so-called "non-profit" big green activist groups like the one that built the multi billion dollar development at Canary Wharf for example, foreign governments, many of which are either communist or are run by brutal corrupt dictators who see the climate change agenda as a way to weaken America and other still somewhat free western countries like Canada, Australia and the UK. It is the cornerstone of their dream, a one world United Nations government where individual nations would be nothing more than provinces, if that. Looking around the world, it''s pretty safe to say that it wouldn''t be modelled after any of the western democracies, but rather would be most influenced by communist regimes, terrorist supporting ideologies and tin horn thugs. If you don''t feel represented in Ottawa now, just imagine what it will be like when the capital city of the highest level of government is half way around the world. You won''t have any say in anything at all. The Carbon Tax, which is intended to help fund these "world wide initiatives", is the first of many "world taxes" that will be coming our way. The whole thing is part of a scam designed to take away the sovereignty of individual nations and pave the way for the one world collective government. Of course, that''s one of the reasons that the communist, socialist and anarchist types in our country love it.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2017-01-06 16:29:30"

Relax

swmb

1/6/2017 5:11:18 PM
Member since:
Dec 2013
Total posts:311
I think we will be ok

  
Classified said "
  
Triplethreat said "...and happily pay your Carbon Tax, when in fact, we should do nothing. The whole thing is nothing but a giant scam, which of course is kept going in part by mainly government funded "climate research scientists" who would otherwise be out of a job, huge multi-national corporations who have jumped on the green bandwagon simply to make a fast buck some of these own large mainstream media networks, the higher ups in the self serving so-called "non-profit" big green activist groups like the one that built the multi billion dollar development at Canary Wharf for example, foreign governments, many of which are either communist or are run by brutal corrupt dictators who see the climate change agenda as a way to weaken America and other still somewhat free western countries like Canada, Australia and the UK. It is the cornerstone of their dream, a one world United Nations government where individual nations would be nothing more than provinces, if that. Looking around the world, it''s pretty safe to say that it wouldn''t be modelled after any of the western democracies, but rather would be most influenced by communist regimes, terrorist supporting ideologies and tin horn thugs. If you don''t feel represented in Ottawa now, just imagine what it will be like when the capital city of the highest level of government is half way around the world. You won''t have any say in anything at all. The Carbon Tax, which is intended to help fund these "world wide initiatives", is the first of many "world taxes" that will be coming our way. The whole thing is part of a scam designed to take away the sovereignty of individual nations and pave the way for the one world collective government. Of course, that''s one of the reasons that the communist, socialist and anarchist types in our country love it.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2017-01-06 16:29:30"

Relax "

It sounds like Dr. Evil is behind all of this and his plans to take over the world never seem to work out.  
 
Austin Powers will stop him!!

Doug

1/6/2017 6:02:31 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:6715
Marpet

  
Marpet said "
  
stonepicker said "No it doesn't work in other parts of the world, austrailia got rid of their carbon tax because it didn't work. Canada is an arctic/sub arctic nation, to charge us more for trying to keep warm in winter is ludicrous. Some agree with another tax, i feel you've been duped. We need less gov. waste not more taxes. "

https://blogs.ubc.ca/rosonluo/2013/02/07/finlands-carbon-tax-system/  
 
Switzerland $141/tonne  
Denmark -$107/tonne  
Iceland - $100/tonne  
Norway - $123/tonne  
 
All cold winter climates and the taxation has worked there (since 1990 for Finland). They pay way more for fuel than we do and the infrastructure for electric vehicles is way more advanced than here.  
 
Agree completely that gov. waste is a huge problem.  
 
Marpet "

While I agree on a carbon tax of sorts: I stand by optional. I also think land mass wise you are comparing apples and oranges.  
   
Along with size our rural urban split has a reason to be concerned.   
 
Ignore large trucks for pleasure. Most people/ companies farmers need them to haul and not just down the street. Brandon to Regina for a simple part that can not be hauled in a smart car. Even our drive for large SUV's has a reason at times.  
 
Hard to car pool 6 kids busses will not fetch in a Rav 4.  
 
One rule one set of price per ton is workable in parts of Canada but not everywhere. Justins mandated collect 10 tons and rising to 50 is problematic for some Provinces. Again removing money from a province one year under the guise of a carbon tax and refunding it 100 percent is plain make work stupid. If I was Wall I would ask for the interest also.   
 
I would throw it into health care for the first year or two and look at buying electricity from Toba or South in a decade or two and work on expanding carbon capture.  
Stonepicker reminded me of Australia. I forgot they turfed it. It was a election issue. Mining companies being grumpy??    
  Research needed. Good thread guys

Marpet

1/6/2017 9:40:41 PM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:522
Doug.

There will undoubtedly be tax breaks and incentives i:ncluded with any carbon tax that will benefit those in society who are required to emit carbon for their livelihood (farmers, truckers, etc). Even Australia reduced the federal income tax for all its citizens to help offset the carbon tax and those who say it didn''t work are picking and choosing their information. Quite simply, the tax was only in place for 3 years, hardly enough time to see significant changes to the system. It was an unpopular tax and it got voted out...that''s democracy.  
The money should be used to encourage and promote green initiatives only. If it is used elsewhere then it accomplishes nothing and truly becomes a tax grab. The point of the tax is to encourage people to use less, waste less and find alternative ways to do things without relying on fossil fuels. Basically charge for the true cost of things.  
Also, there is every indication that as the technology improves, the use of electric cars, buses, and transport will become cheaper, maybe even significantly than ICE transport. The problem here is that there is no investment in a viable infrastructure. People talk distances being to great but you can pretty drive across Europe solely on electric with no range anxiety.  
 
http://www.eafo.eu/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure  
 
How hard would it be for governments to pass laws that state solar panels on all new construction? Solar hot water heaters for new homes and businesses? They already mandate air exchangers. How many jobs would be created if these products were manufactured in Canada.  
 
How difficult would it be for governments to ban producers from disposing of edible food and instead donate to the needy in this country? That doesn''t even cost anything, just tell the food banks to come pick it up. Grocery stores locking up their dumpsters to prevent people from taking the perfectly good food without paying for...putting profit before the well-being of its citizens.  
Governments can make these changes but don''t...and we as citizens can make them by adding our voice for change but we don''t because for most of us, it doesn''t effect us directly. Then we lose our minds because Canada sends money to other countries to help its citizen''s.  
 
We are a hugely wasteful society and any attempts to change it are met with those who are too lazy, or will be to inconvenienced to want to make a difference.  
 
Change may well come anyways. Do we want to be reactive or proactive?  
 
Marpet  
 
Edited by Marpet, 2017-01-06 21:42:20

 
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