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Topic: Vince Li (Will Baker) Granted Absolute Discharge
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hobbes

2/10/2017 5:28:57 PM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:1535
Vince Li (Will Baker) Granted Absolute Discharge

If you don''t know what happened:  
The killing of Tim McLean occurred on the evening of July 30, 2008 and is noted for being a beheading and cannibalism death in Canada. McLean, a 22-year-old Canadian man, was stabbed, beheaded and cannibalized while riding a Greyhound Canada bus about 30 km west of Portage la Prairie, Manitoba traveling the Trans Canada Highway. On March 5, 2009, McLean''s killer, 40-year-old Vince Li, now known as Will Baker, was found not to be criminally responsible for murder and was remanded to a high-security mental health facility in Selkirk, Manitoba, where he was detained until his release on May 8, 2015. On February 10, 2017, the Manitoba Criminal Code Review Board ordered Li be discharged. Li was granted an absolute discharge. There will be no legal obligations or restrictions pertaining to Li's independent living.  
 
 
Story re: Absolute Discharge (including court document)  
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/vince-li-discharge-1.3977278  
 
Edited by hobbes, 2017-02-10 17:30:29

 
 
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belzebob

2/10/2017 5:49:29 PM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:55
hobbes

I wonder if the judge would of done the same if vince was released to live in a basement apartment in his house for the first 3 years  
 
you know, just to be sure he continues to take his meds

crownyboy

2/10/2017 6:00:49 PM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:109
I

wonder if the people with the authority to authorize his release need any medication?

JR

2/10/2017 6:05:35 PM
Member since:
Nov 2007
Total posts:1810
...

I'm not going to get all preachy about how mental health is so misunderstood and stigmatized in this country and how we need better funding and less "judgement". Instead, I'll just ask you all a question:  
 
If I offered you a pill to take every day that would make you think you were hearing the voice of god and would compel you to obey that voice by killing people in a horrendous and bloody manner, and then continue by consuming parts of the body, would you take those pills?  
 
No? Definitely not?  
 
Well, that's how Baker/Li is feeling right now. The only difference is that instead of making a conscious decision to take pills, he would be making a conscious decision to stop taking pills.  
 
Baker/Li is currently just as sane as any other normal person. To assume "what if he stops his meds" is about as legitimate as assuming that any of you would start taking my hypothetical pill as offered.

sunzu

2/10/2017 6:35:36 PM
Member since:
Feb 2012
Total posts:106
In my opinion.....

First of all I would like to state that everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this very serious subject. I also do feel sympathy/empathy for individuals that have a mental disorder. However when it comes to taking another life the laws should be the same for all. For instance in this case the murderer should be assessed for mental capacity ( which he was) and when diminished capacity is diagnosed then the murderer (which is what he is and always will be) should be given medication and proper counselling and when he is mentally fit then the murderer should go to trial. If Will Baker truly is remorseful for his horrible actions he ( and murderers like him) should be more than willing to pay for his crime.What do you think?

Brenda

2/10/2017 6:44:09 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8703
belzebob

   


Crownboy - you obviously know nothing of mental illness.  
 
 
I would suggest that anyone posting their opinions read first about schizophrenia. A good site is the Mayo Clinic.  
 
 
I also suffer mental illness, I agree what Li did was horrid, but knowing facts of this illness may help you understand. This case will obviously not change the justice system.  
 
I truly believe Tim's mother deserves to be full of hate. But their comes a point where perhaps her focus should be doing something good in Tim's name. Perhaps a hockey tournament, ball tournament, golf - with proceeds going to Mental Health. The poor woman has expended so much energy on trying to beat the justice system, maybe something like this would help to remember the good times with Tim. I do not expect her to ever forget what happened, but maybe trying something positive will help.  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2017-02-10 18:51:13

Edited by admin, 2017-02-10 19:32:08. Reason: Reference to since removed post

The_Young_Man

2/10/2017 7:04:13 PM
Member since:
Jan 2012
Total posts:1333
Mental history

They said on CBC Vince Le had no known mental disorders before the attack. He was also living in Edmonton before the attack and was headed for a job interview in Winnipeg.

Flatlander

2/10/2017 7:08:39 PM
Member since:
May 2006
Total posts:36
JR - LI sane as a normal person??

JR - "Baker/Li is currently just as sane as any other normal person." Ya if he continues to take his meds! I would not want him living around me without continued supervision. If he can make the decision to take his meds he also capable of making the decision to stop taking them.  
 
I hope it never comes to be that Dr. J. Waldman, Ms. C. Holowick - Sparkes and the Review Board say that they regret their decision.  
 
Remember it wasn't a petty act, he cut a mans head off.

sunzu

2/10/2017 7:13:31 PM
Member since:
Feb 2012
Total posts:106
Question

How is he paying for his medication? apartment? food?  
Oh right I know....

wonderment

2/10/2017 7:34:55 PM
Member since:
Aug 2014
Total posts:328
:/

Absolute discharge = absolute bull crap

Brenda

2/10/2017 7:37:37 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8703
never on medication or in Vancouver

here is a bio I found on a website. I am only copying and pasting the bio part from this article, the rest we all know, so wanted to keep the details from being told/read/heard again.  
 
Vince Weiguang Li  
 
Background  
 
Vince Weiguang Li was born in Dandong, China on April 30, 1968. In 1992, Li graduated from University of Wuhan Institute of Technology with a Bachelor of Science in Computers. From 1994-1998, Li worked in Beijing as a computer software engineer. Li immigrated to Canada from China on June 11, 2001 (although some newspapers erroneously reported 2004) becoming a Canadian citizen on November 7, 2006. He worked in Winnipeg at menial jobs at Grant Memorial Church for six months to support his wife, Anna. Pastor Tom Castor, who employed Li, said he seemed happy to have a job and was committed to doing it well, despite a language barrier with other congregation members.  
 
"I think he would occasionally feel frustrated with not being able to communicate or understand," Castor told CTV Winnipeg. "But we have a very patient staff and he seemed to respond well." Castor also said Li did not show any signs of anger issues or any other trouble before he quit in the spring of 2005. He worked as a forklift operator in Winnipeg while his wife worked as a waitress.  
 
Li first moved to Edmonton in 2006, abruptly leaving his wife alone in Winnipeg until she joined him later. His jobs i:ncluded service at a Wal-Mart, at a fast-food restaurant, and newspaper delivery. His delivery boss, Vincent Augert, described Li as reliable, hard-working and not showing any signs of trouble.  
 
Four weeks before the murder, he was fired from Wal-Mart following a "disagreement" with other employees. Shortly before the incident, Li asked for time off from his  
delivery job to go to Winnipeg for a job interview.  
 
 
 
Undiagnosed - No meds  
 
Yaren described Li as an otherwise “decent person” who was suffering from untreated schizophrenia and clearly out of his mind when he believed he was acting on God’s commands to eliminate “the force of evil” by attacking the sleeping McLean.  
 
“He was being tormented by auditory hallucinations,” said Yaren, who has worked closely with Li at the Health Sciences Centre psychiatric ward in Winnipeg since he arrived last August.  
 
“He believed Mr. McLean was a force of evil and was about to execute him. He had to act fast, urgently, to save himself. This wasn’t an innocent bystander or stranger he chose to kill, but rather an evil force he was commanded to kill.”  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2017-02-10 19:42:49

*enter name here*

2/10/2017 8:10:41 PM
Member since:
Nov 2008
Total posts:2343
Mental health

I think he should be monitored for the rest of his life to make sure he's taking his medication. Not necessarily locked up for life, even though I think he deserves it, but he was found not criminally responsible. Many people suffering from mental illness know that their mess are helping them and decide to stop taking them because they feel "fine". I feel that he may just do that. Fingers crossed though he continues to see someone and get the help he requires

sunzu

2/10/2017 8:25:56 PM
Member since:
Feb 2012
Total posts:106
Brenda

If the victim's name in this case was the the name of your son/ daughter mother/sister etc. would you feel the same? Would organizing a ball tournament fundraiser for Mental Health help with the pain? It's impossible to feel what this mother is feeling but try and honestly ask yourself could you forgive or forget and not question our justice system?  
What kind of counselling has this family received? All the while the murderer of her son received the best and on our dime I might add! I can hardly put into words what I feel....

Vertstang

2/10/2017 8:32:53 PM
Member since:
Jan 2015
Total posts:44
good job Canada justice system

I am glad all our tax dollars go to keeping this killer in his correct mind. All the hurt this monster has caused and he free to do whatever he wants. This didn't only affect the McLean family, Cpl Barkers family and all the passengers are all traumatized. This is absolute BS. That savage ate him, parts of Mr McLean have never been found. I truly hope Vince Li decides to jump in front of a train. Deport him, let china deal with him. What would have happened to him there if he did that?

sunzu

2/10/2017 8:38:15 PM
Member since:
Feb 2012
Total posts:106
Verstang

I couldn't have said it better.

Brenda

2/10/2017 8:49:54 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8703
yes

  
sunzu said "If the victim's name in this case was the the name of your son/ daughter mother/sister etc. would you feel the same? Would organizing a ball tournament fundraiser for Mental Health help with the pain? It's impossible to feel what this mother is feeling but try and honestly ask yourself could you forgive or forget and not question our justice system?  
What kind of counselling has this family received? All the while the murderer of her son received the best and on our dime I might add! I can hardly put into words what I feel.... "

I would feel the same.  
 
I would keep Tim's memory "alive", but of course I would be distraught.  
 
I would know that after awhile, I was only beating my head against the justice system that will never change for this incident.  
 
I would definitely need counseling, but I would emphasize my thoughts on the positives of Tim's life.  
 
I, myself like to be very informed, I may actually enter some mental health programs to help me learn more about it.  
 
Of course, none of this would take the hurt away of this terrible incident and I would think of it everyday. But knowing I would be expending all my energies on hate, a justice system that would not change, only to probably cause me anxiety and I am sure trauma or depression, I would try and find something to keep my families memory alive, by doing something in his/her honor and sending funds to mental illness.  
 
There are 100 different typed of mental illness, with hardly any funding. Because I have treatment resistant depression I have done so much research. I would also like to say that there is a shortage of psychiatrists. When I first became ill, it took me three months to get an appointment. I wonder if it is like that in other provinces? If Li had asked for help, would it have taken him three months to get an appointment, in which case, this incident still could have happened. If he did get an appointment, would he have been diagnosed right away, not likely. I tried 9 different medications over the past fours years to find the one that "works better" than others, that could have happened with Li too. (I know I got off topic)  
 
It is a horrible, horrible disease. The brain has so many complexities to it.  
 
It was also a horrible event, I get that.

curlysister

2/10/2017 8:53:33 PM
Member since:
Sep 2009
Total posts:2035
hmmm

Some of the comments on this thread are terrible. Will Baker is not a monster, he is a man who is living with a mental illness. This is not the first time the review board has released someone who killed another person and was found NCR. I believe that they have the information, education, experience, and expertise to make these decisions - and I believe that most people in the general public don't.  
Here is a link to a study that dispels many myths surrounding people found NCR (also attaching a graphic that simplifies the findings into a graphic display):  
 
http://ontario.cmha.ca/news/landmark-study-dispels-not-criminally-responsible-myths/#.WJ5toYWcHmQ  
 
Here is a link to a Free Press article that was written, and refers to another tragic case many years ago.  
 
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/crime-time-and-closed-minds-she-faced-same-public-outrage-then-as-li-does-now-162452156.html

mackenzie5

2/10/2017 9:08:05 PM
Member since:
Jan 2014
Total posts:326
..

was it not reported at the time of the incident on the bus that mr Li had gone off of his medication at the time , if in fact that was the case what assurance do we have that he will stay on his medication this time,. i think daily suprivision that he take his prescribed meds should be essential.

Johnbisonbear

2/10/2017 9:14:50 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:2691
I feel bad for people and their families

if a loved one is suffering a mental illness. But if the board feels that this 'guy' is 'alright' to be out amongst the public they are wrong! Let the 'guy' go to jail now, only way to ensure safety for the public, imo. Does his wife want him back with her? I highly doubt it!

A Weathered Heart

2/10/2017 9:20:46 PM
Member since:
Aug 2012
Total posts:232
...

 
 
Edited by A Weathered Heart, 2017-02-10 21:21:36

Brenda

2/10/2017 9:25:06 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8703
wife

  
Johnbisonbear said "if a loved one is suffering a mental illness. But if the board feels that this 'guy' is 'alright' to be out amongst the public they are wrong! Let the 'guy' go to jail now, only way to ensure safety for the public, imo. Does his wife want him back with her? I highly doubt it! "

I was just thinking about his wife. If they had been together in a normal relationship (does not sound like they were), would she have noticed all these obvious changes in Li and ask him or tell him he needed help? Obviously he had a severe case of schizophrenia, and probably was not even aware of his actions, due to the voices in his head. He was so mentally impaired, he would not have realized there was something terribly wrong him, so would not even know to get help.  
 
Family is huge in mental illness, they often see the signs before you yourself do.

Brenda

2/10/2017 9:35:35 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8703
no

  
mackenzie5 said "was it not reported at the time of the incident on the bus that mr Li had gone off of his medication at the time , if in fact that was the case what assurance do we have that he will stay on his medication this time,. i think daily suprivision that he take his prescribed meds should be essential. "

read my previous post, he was undiagnosed.

Brenda

2/10/2017 9:48:06 PM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8703
living with schizophrenia

this is a very interesting story on a woman that lives with schizophrenia. I think this read can enlighten those that are not mentally ill and those that want to help end the stigma. (again, I go off topic, but I just had to sure her journey)  
 
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5983970/im-elyn-saks-and-this-is-what-its-like-to-live-with-schizophrenia

Cheezies

2/10/2017 9:55:45 PM
Member since:
Oct 2010
Total posts:1355
Diagnosed

  
Brenda said "
  
mackenzie5 said "was it not reported at the time of the incident on the bus that mr Li had gone off of his medication at the time , if in fact that was the case what assurance do we have that he will stay on his medication this time,. i think daily suprivision that he take his prescribed meds should be essential. "

read my previous post, he was undiagnosed. "

If you read "how the mental health system failed Vince Li" from the Globe and Mail. (I don't know how to copy links), it states that he was diagnosed earlier on and refused those meds. It also gives he story of what his wife witnessed of his behaviour earlier on.  
 
Edited by Cheezies, 2017-02-10 22:00:40

Mjt420

2/10/2017 10:40:19 PM
Member since:
Jul 2016
Total posts:11
Vince Li

He should be charged and serve life like any other person who kills someone, the judge probably would have had a different outlook if it was his child it happened too.

Blade

2/10/2017 10:47:29 PM
Member since:
Apr 2008
Total posts:527
**

  
JR said "I'm not going to get all preachy about how mental health is so misunderstood and stigmatized in this country and how we need better funding and less "judgement". Instead, I'll just ask you all a question:  
 
If I offered you a pill to take every day that would make you think you were hearing the voice of god and would compel you to obey that voice by killing people in a horrendous and bloody manner, and then continue by consuming parts of the body, would you take those pills?  
 
No? Definitely not?  
 
Well, that's how Baker/Li is feeling right now. The only difference is that instead of making a conscious decision to take pills, he would be making a conscious decision to stop taking pills.  
 
Baker/Li is currently just as sane as any other normal person. To assume "what if he stops his meds" is about as legitimate as assuming that any of you would start taking my hypothetical pill as offered. "

JR your comment makes about as much sense as this so-called review boards decision.  
 
Best thing that can happen now is that Vince Li goes to China and is not allowed back in Canada. If he was to commit an offence like this is China there would be no waste of taxpayer dollars because I doubt they would even lock him up. He would be quickly terminated.  
 
Who is ever going to want to work along side him or live next door to him. He has no purpose in society anymore.  
 
Edited by Blade, 2017-02-10 22:50:17

mikestang

2/10/2017 10:52:16 PM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:356
seriously?

Life in prison in Canada is 25 years. You get out in what...16 years for good behaviour. In all reality, he's served his time. We let rapists and pedophiles out into the community all of the time.

Madison

2/10/2017 11:40:37 PM
Member since:
Jun 2011
Total posts:79
Vince Li

is a cold blooded cannibal and we are paying to keep him and have his freedom. Dah!! It doesn't take a brain to figure this one out!!! He should be monitored in jail (24 hr seclusion) for life to make sure he takes his meds. Being in a family of having a loved one murdered is something that no one can understand - mental illness or not. If he is now freed of his illness as long as he takes his medication, he should stand trial for his actions, just as some youth have to wait until adult court to be tried. What is the matter with our justice system??? Where are our MP's and MLA's to help put a stop to wasting our money. Don't we pay for enough already????? My heart goes out to Tim McLean's family as no one should have to go thru that. Take it from a family who knows!!!!!

Couchfork

2/11/2017 12:31:25 AM
Member since:
Feb 2014
Total posts:25
releasing him is insanity

He may not have been at full mental capabilities but nonetheless he committed the act of murder and should be treated and punished as a murderer! Not like someone, who one day, oops forgot to take medication and thought it was a good idea to eat a person ffs. Our court systems are a complete and disastrous failure that's for sure.

plus zero

2/11/2017 6:32:04 AM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:1113
difficult

I find difficult issue to decide because here are talking about his mental health and the sadness of it but how about the other side: the man that doesn't live anymore because he got his head cut off and the feeling of his family dealing and still dealing with it that he is not living anymore that is sadness too.  
I don't know mental issues much and I don't know death (killed) issue that a family lost much either.  
Was justice served? ...on both sides!

 
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