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Topic: Can a job not hire you on the basis of having children?


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Dreamer67

10/12/2017 5:37:23 PM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:75
Can a job not hire you on the basis of having children?

There is an ad running hiring servers and it very clearly states they will NOT hire you if you have children. Is this legal??!? I wonder how they would know and if it's their right to be asking. I took pictures of the ad in question and will be following up but just wanted to know what others thoughts were on it.

 
 
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braid

10/12/2017 5:42:06 PM
Member since:
Apr 2010
Total posts:5360
Hmmm

Illegal as far as I know .

bigmoe

10/12/2017 5:44:46 PM
Member since:
Jul 2006
Total posts:1765
.

I think it means kids will not be hired (under18)

Dreamer67

10/12/2017 5:48:56 PM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:75
I don't think so

The meaning is very clear as it's a bar and obviously children are not going to be applying to work there.

Leif

10/12/2017 5:53:08 PM
Member since:
Jan 2012
Total posts:28
Canadian Human Rights.

You are not allowed to driscriminate based on family status.  
 
https://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/eng/content/what-discrimination

Giddyup

10/12/2017 6:10:32 PM
Member since:
Apr 2013
Total posts:193
Ad

I saw the ad that you're referring to. It says "no kids" which I'm hoping means "must be 18 years old" since its a licensed establishment. Definitely could have been worded better, comes across a little unprofessional.

Trevor B

10/12/2017 6:31:25 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7974
How

many kids do you know that have 2 years server experience? It's also says not for students, does this i:nclude post-secondary students?

Fishin Guy

10/12/2017 6:42:10 PM
Member since:
Dec 2005
Total posts:6484
So....

  
Dreamer67 said "There is an ad running hiring servers and it very clearly states they will NOT hire you if you have children. Is this legal??!? I wonder how they would know and if it's their right to be asking. I took pictures of the ad in question and will be following up but just wanted to know what others thoughts were on it. "

Are you actually interested in applying for the job or you just wanting to prove a point? Ad says no kids, students, etc. Available for opening and closing shifts. It is a licenced establishment needing people over 18 years of age. What is your real concern? This isn't a Mom's Family restaurant or something like that where under 18 people can work. I do not see anywhere where the ad clearly says that they will not hire you if you have kids. Can you elaborate or is it your interpretation of the ad?

Trevor B

10/12/2017 6:59:05 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7974
Pretty sure

  
Fishin Guy said "
  
Dreamer67 said "There is an ad running hiring servers and it very clearly states they will NOT hire you if you have children. Is this legal??!? I wonder how they would know and if it's their right to be asking. I took pictures of the ad in question and will be following up but just wanted to know what others thoughts were on it. "

Are you actually interested in applying for the job or you just wanting to prove a point? Ad says no kids, students, etc. Available for opening and closing shifts. It is a licenced establishment needing people over 18 years of age. What is your real concern? This isn't a Mom's Family restaurant or something like that where under 18 people can work. I do not see anywhere where the ad clearly says that they will not hire you if you have kids. Can you elaborate or is it your interpretation of the ad? "

kids won't be applying to be an experienced server at a bar. What else would 'no kids' mean then? Minors can't serve or sell liquor anyways.  
 
 
http://lgamanitoba.ca/liquor-gaming-applications/liquor-service-licence/  
 
'Can minors work in the age-restricted lounge area of a dining room/lounge?  
Yes, minors may be employed to work in the lounge area up to 10:00 p.m., as long as they are not serving or selling liquor, or working in a security-related function. For a full des:cription of the requirements licensees must follow when employing a minor, please see the Dining Room/Lounge Terms and Conditions.'

wonderment

10/12/2017 7:01:10 PM
Member since:
Aug 2014
Total posts:392
Umm

I had the exact same take as the op ..could be wrong but seems like they're saying they want childless workers not no kids need apply. So the concern fishing guy is exactly that ..r they crossing lines they can't legally cross in their hiring practise or do they just need to learn to word their want ads better

Trevor B

10/12/2017 7:10:54 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7974
Servers, bartenders, managers and security

are also required to take a servers course and be certified. And the minimum age for that course is 18. So that right there automatically means no minors (kids).  
 
https://smartchoicesmb.ca/

wonderment

10/13/2017 1:02:33 PM
Member since:
Aug 2014
Total posts:392
Umm

Actually you can be a minor and still be a server, just can't serve the alcohol but can still take the orders. There's a lot of places in town that aren't bars/ lounges that serve alcohol but have teens working as servers. So unless a person knows the business they may not know if it's a bar/ lounge/ restaurant.

Tater

10/13/2017 2:29:38 PM
Member since:
Jul 2013
Total posts:367
same first impression of ad...

I also took it to mean that they didn't want servers who have children.

Enfyre

10/13/2017 2:39:05 PM
Member since:
May 2012
Total posts:383
-

Child is the legally used term for individuals under 18. Kid(s) is an informal and ambiguous term, can mean different things depending on the person and context.  
For example, I've always referred to any mentally immature person as a "kid" irregardless of their age, further I've always been of the opinion that 9/10 18 year olds are still kids, about by the age of 30 that ratio is the mirror opposite.  
So maybe it's their way of saying that they want mentally mature individuals only. If that's the case, it should have been worded better.

Belly Fuzz

10/13/2017 9:20:18 PM
Member since:
Jul 2016
Total posts:204
.

  
Dreamer67 said "There is an ad running hiring servers and it very clearly states they will NOT hire you if you have children. Is this legal??!? I wonder how they would know and if it's their right to be asking. I took pictures of the ad in question and will be following up but just wanted to know what others thoughts were on it. "

You took a picture of the advertisement? Can you post the picture so we can see it too?

Arbee61

10/13/2017 11:13:00 PM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:156
or

Does it mean are you with child (pregnant). Some places will avoid hiring pregnant women cause it simply means that after a few months they will have to look for another person. My thoughts.

Tater

10/14/2017 9:52:36 AM
Member since:
Jul 2013
Total posts:367
illegal

it is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of family status, which i:ncludes being pregnant and having children.

plus zero

10/14/2017 10:49:55 AM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:1236
pregnant

discrimination...how about woman will get a job for a while only for the intention to receive maternity leave

Unbreakable

10/14/2017 12:49:18 PM
Member since:
Jan 2009
Total posts:28
My ad

Hey guys, i want to apologize about this ad, there were no intentions of being discriminated or offended, i was simply looking for some servers that didnt have a family life, as i have hired before and its ok to be a parent ofcourse, but i had lots of calls to not come to work due to family issues, therefore i was simply asking for some servers who didnt have a family life.  
 
While the ad was running i got 6 texts for interviews, as some didnt take offense to it.  
 
My apologies on the wording and this wont happen again  
 
No rules were meant to be broken in this case

traveller

10/14/2017 6:10:19 PM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:9059
:)

  
Unbreakable said "Hey guys, i want to apologize about this ad, there were no intentions of being discriminated or offended, i was simply looking for some servers that didnt have a family life, as i have hired before and its ok to be a parent ofcourse, but i had lots of calls to not come to work due to family issues, therefore i was simply asking for some servers who didnt have a family life.  
 
While the ad was running i got 6 texts for interviews, as some didnt take offense to it.  
 
My apologies on the wording and this wont happen again  
 
No rules were meant to be broken in this case "

while i understand your point of view if you are going to stay an employer you may want to familiarize yourself with the labor laws before your mistakes get you in trouble

Giddyup

10/14/2017 6:16:38 PM
Member since:
Apr 2013
Total posts:193
seriously??!!

So you're admitting to human rights violations but it's "ok" because you had people responding to your ad and will still be able to fill your positions...all I can say is WOW!! Not the employer I would want to work for and now that I know which restaurant is yours won't be giving you my hard earned dollars.  
 
Tell me something...if any of these childless individuals you hire were to get married or have a child or encounter some other "family situation" that you deem so undesirable will that be a reason for you to terminate them??  
 
And for the record I find that employees with family commitments (and students for that matter) are some of the hardest working people because they actually really need the job and paycheque.

hisluvmonkey

10/14/2017 6:28:48 PM
Member since:
Oct 2009
Total posts:1217
You still don't get it do you?

  
Unbreakable said "Hey guys, i want to apologize about this ad, there were no intentions of being discriminated or offended, i was simply looking for some servers that didnt have a family life, as i have hired before and its ok to be a parent ofcourse, but i had lots of calls to not come to work due to family issues, therefore i was simply asking for some servers who didnt have a family life.  
 
While the ad was running i got 6 texts for interviews, as some didnt take offense to it.  
 
My apologies on the wording and this wont happen again  
 
No rules were meant to be broken in this case "

What planet RU from?

Adam

10/14/2017 7:38:35 PM
Member since:
Mar 2005
Total posts:15282
Ad

  
Unbreakable said "Hey guys, i want to apologize about this ad, there were no intentions of being discriminated or offended, i was simply looking for some servers that didnt have a family life, as i have hired before and its ok to be a parent ofcourse, but i had lots of calls to not come to work due to family issues, therefore i was simply asking for some servers who didnt have a family life.  
 
While the ad was running i got 6 texts for interviews, as some didnt take offense to it.  
 
My apologies on the wording and this wont happen again  
 
No rules were meant to be broken in this case "


So to be clear:  
 
If going forward you receive an application from the absolutely perfect prospective employee who happens to have a child at home you will or will not consider them for the position?  
 
Before answering I would strongly suggest reviewing the Manitoba Human Rights Code at http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/h175e.php  
In particular section 14(3) which in my interpretation is clear the family status cannot be advertised as a limitation or preference

Happy_ Hour

10/14/2017 8:36:17 PM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:582
.

What was the actual wording in the ad?

Pinkbutterflies

10/14/2017 10:18:11 PM
Member since:
Jan 2011
Total posts:108
Illegal and immoral

You wouldn’t say no to an African American for stereotypical and racist reasons would you? So how could this be any different?  
As someone who worked full time as a server/ bartender while going to school, I rarely missed work... and it was never for school. In fact, I know many students and employees with children that end up picking up the slack for the employees who aren’t students and don’t have a family!  
Please re think your little “rule” before you get in trouble!  
And also, be kind to others! :-)

Trevor B

10/14/2017 10:39:25 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7974
-

  
Happy_ Hour said "What was the actual wording in the ad? "

'no kids' is how it was worded in a list.

Tater

10/15/2017 6:40:57 AM
Member since:
Jul 2013
Total posts:367
Plus zero- reply to your comment re: pregnancy

Again, it is perfectly ok for a pregnant person to work or get a job, "just" to get maternity leave from EI, and to figure it out after that. Like honestly, what are they supposed to do, NOT work, go on welfare? I'm pretty appalled with the level of ignorance, I'm glad I saw this thread, I hope potential employers realize that they don't get to dictate the way their employees live their life to that extent, and I hope employees out there (and it applies more so to women in particular) are aware of their rights not to be discriminated against in the workplace, based on family status.

Tater

10/15/2017 6:49:18 AM
Member since:
Jul 2013
Total posts:367
Unbreakable- reply re: requirements

Just to help clarify, you can not require that employees not have a family life. You can require that employees be reliable, you can say that in the first 30/60/90 days ANY absence will be grounds for dismissal, you can be supportive and if you know of any daycares with spots open or babysitters post them in an area accessible to staff. If you want employees with no family life even if they are parents.... what the heck? are you looking for lowlifes and drug addicts? deadbeats? If you're just not willing to learn that most reliable people have schedules and that you may need to actually WORK to create a schedule that works, you will LOSE reliable employees to places that are respectful workplaces. And your ignorance of workplace rights and responsibilities may land in court, as you don't seem to understand that you can NOT discriminate on family status, just as you can NOT discriminate on the basis of race or sexual orientation, gender, or any other protected status.

Happy_ Hour

10/15/2017 8:10:24 AM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:582
Thanks Trevor.

  
Trevor B said "
  
Happy_ Hour said "What was the actual wording in the ad? "

'no kids' is how it was worded in a list. "

I guess if it was the OPers personal preferance to hire someone with no kids he/she should have been a bit more discreet in seeking out that info.  
 
I think perhaps in an interview ask things like "What kind of things do you like to do in your off time?" Or "How available are you for extra shifts or overtime?"  
 
I think people will freely bring out the kid topic on their own if asked the right interview question.  
 
I dunno...is that approach more legal?

Dreamer67

10/15/2017 8:39:24 AM
Member since:
Aug 2009
Total posts:75
I'm so surprised at the reply from the business

All I can say in how unprofessional. We love to go to this business and head upstairs to play pool or listen to live music but after this we will be taking our business elsewhere. I have worked in the service industry for over 15 years and actually been hired with a child for my maturity and all the skills being a parent teaches you.

 
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