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Topic: Riverbank rebirth to shape?
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Dune

1/7/2017 3:44:01 PM
Member since:
Nov 2012
Total posts:60
the issue Trevor

Is that thee city was sold on the idea of the discovery center by Ducks Unlimited and can't seem to get out of this horrible deal their in.  
Flood plain is just that. Don't build on it no matter what.  
The Discovery center should be closed down and the Keystone Center, in the middle of the city, should be the hub of Brandon's activity. Ready made infrastructure, better parking lots of entrances and exits.

ctct

1/7/2017 3:59:52 PM
Member since:
May 2011
Total posts:47
Riverbank rebirth to take shape?? OH MY REALLYx2!!!!!

Agreed thankyou Dune!

Mr. Smith

1/7/2017 4:57:00 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:87
You are missing the point.......

  
Dune said "Is that thee city was sold on the idea of the discovery center by Ducks Unlimited and can't seem to get out of this horrible deal their in.  
Flood plain is just that. Don't build on it no matter what.  
The Discovery center should be closed down and the Keystone Center, in the middle of the city, should be the hub of Brandon's activity. Ready made infrastructure, better parking lots of entrances and exits. "

This isn't about "a hub of Brandon's activity". It is about DEVELOPING THE RIVERBANK CORRIDOR. Development is being carried out in a forward thinking manner, taking into account what we know about seasonal flooding. I visited The Forks one Sunday in October and it was absolutely packed with people, walking, having picnics and enjoying the space. Brandon desperately needs a space like this. Every negative argument presented thus far has dwelled on cost and flooding. The price tag is spread out over a 20 year period, so think of it long term. Flooding? The plan also takes that into account. You can all have your opinions, just make sure they are informed or you run the risk of coming across as puerile.

melsey

1/7/2017 5:37:11 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:813
...

  
Dune said "Is that thee city was sold on the idea of the discovery center by Ducks Unlimited and can't seem to get out of this horrible deal their in.  
Flood plain is just that. Don't build on it no matter what.  
The Discovery center should be closed down and the Keystone Center, in the middle of the city, should be the hub of Brandon's activity. Ready made infrastructure, better parking lots of entrances and exits. "

The first five years of the plan covers 7 items which i:ncludes improving the 1st street bridge and 18th street bridge. The plan does not just talk about the discovery centre. Are you suggesting that these two bridges not be improved?

Trevor B

1/7/2017 5:47:44 PM
Member since:
Apr 2005
Total posts:7611
The Masterplan

includes more than the Discovery Centre, but the entire river corridor. Optimist Park, Dinsdale Park, Ashley Neufield Softball Complex, Winter area, Queen Elizibeth Park are all included in the plan for upgrades.

unbreakable1

1/7/2017 6:14:31 PM
Member since:
Jun 2005
Total posts:1147
agree with dune

I largely agree with dune. Do we really need to develop an area which is prone to flooding even on a 'dry year'. How many times for example which The Elanor Kidd Garden been closed for a month in the past few years due to flooding? You can dike and build all a person want but Mother Nature always has a way of beating a dike. Just get a nice snow pack like we have south of here (Minot and especially Bismarck of what a few North Dakota friends told me) or whatever comes from the mismanaged Assiniboine River and we have a bigger headache then we currently have. Sorry, I'm not sold on the idea and that's includes looking at the plans. For the record, I still don't like The Corral Centre and the development of that whole area.

s-t-r-e-t-c-h

1/7/2017 6:33:38 PM
Member since:
Nov 2012
Total posts:91
Interesting

that city 'brass' voted not to replace the 8th St. bridge, for Bdn residents, but we have 'millions' of dollars to put into flood plain recreation?? With all the infrastructure that needs cash, this seems like a frilly use of hard earned property tax dollars. Has this been thought through??

Mr. Smith

1/7/2017 6:35:59 PM
Member since:
Jul 2010
Total posts:87
Assiniboine watershed

  
unbreakable1 said "I largely agree with dune. Do we really need to develop an area which is prone to flooding even on a 'dry year'. How many times for example which The Elanor Kidd Garden been closed for a month in the past few years due to flooding? You can dike and build all a person want but Mother Nature always has a way of beating a dike. Just get a nice snow pack like we have south of here (Minot and especially Bismarck of what a few North Dakota friends told me) or whatever comes from the mismanaged Assiniboine River and we have a bigger headache then we currently have. Sorry, I'm not sold on the idea and that's includes looking at the plans. For the record, I still don't like The Corral Centre and the development of that whole area. "

The snowpack in the Souris Sub-basin (Minot and Bismarck) doesn't impact flows at Brandon. The Souris flows into the Assiniboine at Treesbank, MB. We are most susceptible to snowpack in the Qu'Appelle Sub-basin

unbreakable1

1/7/2017 7:38:40 PM
Member since:
Jun 2005
Total posts:1147
you missed it

  
Mr. Smith said "
  
unbreakable1 said "I largely agree with dune. Do we really need to develop an area which is prone to flooding even on a 'dry year'. How many times for example which The Elanor Kidd Garden been closed for a month in the past few years due to flooding? You can dike and build all a person want but Mother Nature always has a way of beating a dike. Just get a nice snow pack like we have south of here (Minot and especially Bismarck of what a few North Dakota friends told me) or whatever comes from the mismanaged Assiniboine River and we have a bigger headache then we currently have. Sorry, I'm not sold on the idea and that's includes looking at the plans. For the record, I still don't like The Corral Centre and the development of that whole area. "

The snowpack in the Souris Sub-basin (Minot and Bismarck) doesn't impact flows at Brandon. The Souris flows into the Assiniboine at Treesbank, MB. We are most susceptible to snowpack in the Qu'Appelle Sub-basin "

Maybe I wasn't clear. Take the snow pack what they have in Minot, Bismarck (and worse) and have that in the Assiniboine River basin. Then we will have a huge problem regardless how diked up etc. they make the whole Discovery Centre, Corral Centre and area. Its bound to happen and likely more frequently then one can imagine. We're not going to have tame snow packs forever.  
 
Edited by unbreakable1, 2017-01-07 19:41:56

Farmers Feed the World

1/7/2017 7:44:02 PM
Member since:
Apr 2011
Total posts:232
...

Always chuckle at the phrase rebuilding the river bank center. Wasn't the point of that center for nature awareness. Natural wildlife natural birds natural river but not natural river bank erosion got to artificially recreate it back to nature looking.

TEN

1/7/2017 9:50:50 PM
Member since:
Jul 2006
Total posts:2136
Interesting

Like others have said, this has been in the works for years, ever since it was decided to try to work with the river instead of controlling it.  
 
What I find interesting is all the people in at least 2 or three discussions every year that complain about the lack of things to do or attractions in Brandon and when the city wants to build an "attraction" (for lack of a better word), everyone starts complaining about spending too much money.

Abbysmum

1/7/2017 10:03:42 PM
Member since:
Mar 2009
Total posts:2851
excited!

I'm personally excited about this redevelopment! I love our river corridor, and how accessible it can be to all our citizens, regardless of income bracket.  
 
Yeah, it's $30M, but isn't that over YEARS, if not decades? I broke my heart to see the beautiful riverbank stuff wiped out in recent years, and it's worth the money to spend it on things that will improve our overall quality of life for all citizens.  
 
No one liked the 8th Street bridge proposals, and the current redesign of 1st/18th seem to address most of the issues.

snowman5

1/7/2017 10:58:52 PM
Member since:
Nov 2009
Total posts:826
I guess I've missed a big snit...

So, I'm gone all day and found out people are angry with me, because of my rant. Heard about it, but missed it before it was removed. I'm sorry that a made you have to do some research to spite me and I'm sorry that I made you cry... joke! Lighten up, please. You're no fun when it's too serious. My opinion wasn't meant to upset the "pro development party". And Yes, Mr Smith I didn't look over the final "Big plan", simply because it's been wished for and wished for over and over 'till I hear nothing but background static and read nothing but blurry thoughts. That's my bad for loosing my attention. However with this town, it's too easy to tune these things out. Like the 8th street bridge, the golf course, Brandon Downtown Biz/Renaissance Brandon, the many dreams of the Strand theater, the Keystone constantly wishing for more money to expand and the list goes on and on, year after year. I never noticed (on here or anywhere else, but I'll admit I'm not looking for it every day either -thus: the "low key" statement) that it was actually and finally brought up before the city council yesterday. Again, my bad. But I got to ask... What draws all of you to the water? Why are some of you so fixated to have the city to attempt once again to make the riverbank back to a groomed park and public sports & recreational area? Just restore it to a natural setting with paved trails cutting through as the only man-made structure interrupting it. It can never be a park like the Forks. Winnipeg is managed by the Red River Floodway and the Portage Diversion. Those rivers levels there are controlled, ours is not. We can never have that luxury. And when Winnipeg is threatened with a possible "high water event", they are willing the sacrifice farmland and the Interlake region simply because they have the numbers. And that's a big point. They are a large city with more people to serve with way more money to have options on facilities for the public. If the people of Brandon wants to compare itself to Winnipeg, don't use the Forks as an example. Try the Assiniboine Forest in Charleswood. Not the park/Zoo at the river (we can't afford that), but the natural preservation sitting between Roblin Blvd and Wilkes Ave. Trees and trails, that's all it is. Cheap and simple. ..The way I like it. That's all we need. Just some trails. And some lights would be nice too. Done. We need to stop kidding ourselves that we can afford this plan to "return to the river" and move on with viable projects out of the flood zone.  
 
Early on with this Master plan Idea, I was skeptic that unless another level of government was paying for it, we're not getting anything big done. Not now and not in twenty years from now. I've convinced myself that this plan would become just another overpriced, out-of-date document full of expensive ideas that entertains the imagination of the public, but eventually gets shelved and forgotten. Who knew they were serious? Not me. The earth based amphitheater has now turned into a roofed stage with a screen. ...That was new to me. What else did I miss yesterday that's changed? And again with the trees and shrubs... Why? Whatever gets planted from the nursery hasn't lasted these past years. This is what irked me in my first rant. Someone has convinced the council to push for the fancy and the unpracticable. That needs to stop. So I b!tched about it. And maybe some else will relate to it and speak up. And so on and so on. I'm not against cleaning up and fixing what can be saved along the river... I'm against spending more then we need to and suggesting those to stop focusing on just this one area of town.  
 
Maybe I need to be the first to say it (yup, I'm b!tching again)... I hate having the Canada Day events down there. I hate the bottleneck of traffic congestion getting there. I hate driving my minivan through a ditch and parking in a soft field, then walking in the ditch with small kids to get to the event. I hate that fact that when you're there, you're stuck there until the bitter end. I hate the lack of vendor options for food. I hate having only one option to get the hell out of there when it's done. I hate the fact that two thirds to three quarters of the city has to drive to that area to watch the fireworks then scramble to get out of there before traffic backs up. I hate the fact that everyone I know hates where the Canada Day celebrations and does nothing in voicing for changing the location (myself included). The Discovery Center is and will always be a awful venue to host large events. Adding a expensive stage and a few more parking stalls, changes nothing. I can't be the only one who thinks this? The Keystone is so much better equipped to handle large public events. Why must we continue punishing ourselves? This is my main reason in opposing some of the future development... it doesn't work as a venue at the river. It never did. I did liked it as a park. However, I do believe it shouldn't be restored as city park again, but as a natural preserve.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.  
 
And it's just one opinion, you don't need to prove me wrong.

mikestang

1/8/2017 12:05:25 AM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:356
I agree with snowman.

I haven't spoken to one person that thinks this is a good idea (the silent majority). What a massive waste of tax dollars.  
 
The riverbank should be left alone except for trails.

Dune

1/8/2017 9:04:04 AM
Member since:
Nov 2012
Total posts:60
IMO

  
TEN said "Like others have said, this has been in the works for years, ever since it was decided to try to work with the river instead of controlling it.  
 
What I find interesting is all the people in at least 2 or three discussions every year that complain about the lack of things to do or attractions in Brandon and when the city wants to build an "attraction" (for lack of a better word), everyone starts complaining about spending too much money. "

I'm not saying don't develop, just don't develop on a flood plain.  
Even if it's built up to be out of the water when it floods the place will not be usable.

Getty

1/8/2017 9:38:18 AM
Member since:
Aug 2008
Total posts:1162
waste of money

complete waste of tax dollars. I wouldn't spend a cent for the discovery area. IMO there shouldn't be anything there (even corral centre) and focus the money in a different part of the city!

traveller

1/8/2017 11:29:57 AM
Member since:
Jun 2007
Total posts:8901
snowman5

I agree with you, maintaining a park and walking trails in that area seems to be feasible, sure we are armchair engineers like Mr smith says but you dont need a degree to see the history and the outcomes of past, or the outcomes that other real engineers have made, Winnipegs flood control defiantly affects and sacrifices other areas in order to maintain some control but honestly as theses "historic" events keep happening at some point we should come to the conclusion that control is an illusion, cant remember the year but counsel enacted a non build zone in the area, were all their advisers to be ignored now because we want it? doesnt make senses  
 
personally i dont use the area much at all (especially since its looked awful from the road for a while now) so naturally im not for spending money on it but i do understand that community projects even if its not my tastes are a benefit, just which ones and where are the concern, I admit i heard rumors of discovery center redevelopment on the radio (not many read the newspapers now a day that i know of) but unlike the 8th st bridge there was no talk of the price tag which i believe is what people are now reacting too, if it was a simple redevelopment with a low price tag not sure it would be an issue and looking at the links that were provided by supporters only one had a price tag and it has already gone up 5 mill in about a year, if i remember right, which is what happens with theses projects, having the 30 mil spread over years makes the project more manageable for sure but with ever year passing the cost will also go up so i expect this will either cost more then 30 mill or the project will not be completed as the years come and go along with new ideas ect .  
 
i guess we will see what happens, would be a nice area if it could be maintained but i do agree that having the area for large events isnt the best place and maybe we should have looked elsewhere for a amphitheater ect

daisychain

1/8/2017 12:34:25 PM
Member since:
Aug 2007
Total posts:2732
Absolutely not

This is not the place to "rebuild" I am all for maintaining, if not improving it as a "Natural" site. Improve and perhaps add some walking paths, elevate the path that leads to the walking bridge, that is underwater every year. But no to anything more. Its not a great draw, and an amphitheatre will not change that, we live in a climate where it's not feasible to pay that much money for infrastructure that will be used in the few summer months we have. It will never be "The Forks" or anything close. Keep it as a green space, improve it as a green space.

TEN

1/8/2017 1:43:32 PM
Member since:
Jul 2006
Total posts:2136
-

There has been a lot of money already spent on moving anything out of the areas that are immediately adjacent to the river and have flooded in the past and raising and reinforcing the dikes to better protect that infrastructure outside the dikes. The plan that I see is to let that which is inside the dikes, or cannot feasibly be diked, revert to it's natural state, while developing outside.  
Also, with the dikes in place now replacing the temporary ones that prevented any developed infrastructure from flood water, why not? I may be wrong, however, I do not believe we will have high water events greater than those of 2011 and 2014.

ctct

1/14/2017 6:46:14 AM
Member since:
May 2011
Total posts:47
Riverbank rebirth to take shape?? OH MY REALLYx2!!!!!

Curious to know if soundoff in Brandon Sun had any comments about Riverbank development?  
 
Anyone know who owns the BrandonSun? Winnipeg person?  
 
Edited by ctct, 2017-01-14 06:47:24

Brenda

1/14/2017 7:40:32 AM
Member since:
Jul 2005
Total posts:8741
No

  
ctct said "Curious to know if soundoff in Brandon Sun had any comments about Riverbank development?  
 
Anyone know who owns the BrandonSun? Winnipeg person?  
 
Edited by ctct, 2017-01-14 06:47:24"

Haven't seen anything in soundoff!

ctct

2/7/2017 9:32:47 AM
Member since:
May 2011
Total posts:47
Riverbank rebirth to take shape?? OH MY REALLY!!!!!

River Rafting in spring anyone. Or maybe that old Brandon Fairy is kicking around. Make some sweet jumps!!!! Investing in the future. lol

daisychain

3/2/2017 12:02:32 PM
Member since:
Aug 2007
Total posts:2732
any new news?

The whole idea is absurd, Kirkcaldy West bound isn't even wide enough to turn into the Corral Centre if there are more than 3 cars at a red light. After the last snow, the paths at the Discover Centre were not cleared for over 10 days, during the summer they are overrun with thistle bushes, and there is a light standard that has been close to falling over since the flood, it's still not fixed. Clean it up, make people want to use it, but anything beyond makes no sense, especially not $30mil worth.

ctct

4/9/2017 12:08:37 PM
Member since:
May 2011
Total posts:47
Link - Flood future plan to Riverbank Reshape measures

Link - Flood future plan to Reconsidering Riverbank Reshape plan.  
 
Please Westman look at all of these posts. All of it is really something to think about. Your voice matters!!!!  
 
PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

daisychain

4/9/2017 1:01:29 PM
Member since:
Aug 2007
Total posts:2732
Riverbank Discovery Centre

walked thru yesterday, or at least as far as we could before the river crossed over the walking paths, the riverbank itself is eroding quickly behind the discovery centre, is this really a place worth putting our tax dollars into...Absolutely NOT. The water is up the boat launch and running into the fields. Its a mess.

Tiger Lily

4/9/2017 1:59:25 PM
Member since:
Jul 2007
Total posts:566
Discovery Centre has limited appeal

You can`t compare the Discovery Centre with The Forks in Winnipeg. The Forks are in the centre of Winnipeg and has lots of commercial and tourism development, making it a real destination. I would compare the Discovery Centre more with Oak Hammock Marsh - a nice nature retreat, but not a major draw for the general public or tourists.  
I think that maintaining trails is great - more investment than that is misplaced.

Hackeda

4/9/2017 2:21:14 PM
Member since:
Nov 2007
Total posts:2599
Absolutely

Agree with Tiger Lily and daisychain. It will never be The Forks, the bank erosion isn't slowing and the design/traffic in that Corral Centre area is a disaster. Why would this be an ideal place to invest in and try to lure more people to?  
 
I heard the master plan includes a "Leo Mol" Sculpture Garden and that Brandonites would have to grow up and be like bigger cities and adopt the "Pay & Park" system and/or park in Home Depot parking lot for large events. Haven't they heard this is Brandon, not Winnipeg.  
 
I still can't believe $30m is being spent on this flood plain development to keep repairing it. How much more $ is going to be needed to fix the area after each flood?  
 
Nice place to walk around, get some fresh air and sunshine but that's about all. I can't support throwing good money after bad for any development in a flood plain. (imo, shouldn't be permitted at all) Mother Nature doesn't care how much money you throw at her, she's going to do what she wants to do and when.

Flutterby

4/9/2017 7:00:20 PM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:984

I was reading the January 1994 edition of the National Geographic where they covered the huge Mississippi River flood. I found it interesting that it was mentioned that levees (channeling water through a small space) make things worse and leaving a flood plain as is is better.  
 
What I see is backing things up along the Upper Assiniboine and forcing water through a small channel prolongs the agony & causes more damage than having a clear path in the natural flood plain. If there was no development and the river was left as is natural, the water would be gone much sooner and there would be less heartache & worry, and less money spent on prevention and repair.  
 
I actually agree with those who say nothing should have been developed in this area a second time around after having moved out farmers in the past in Brandon siting flooding issues on the river.  
 
I also agree with not comparing the river in Brandon to the Forks. They do have flooding, but most of the water is diverted even before it reaches Winnipeg, so that really is not a great comparison. It is not a true measure of Assiniboine flooding.  
 
I don't claim to know engineering, but observation (especially on a repeated basis) is a valuable component in any event.  
 
I will not argue about it, but just adding my opinion and observations to your discussion here.

ctct

4/9/2017 8:36:45 PM
Member since:
May 2011
Total posts:47
In my opinion

This discussion Topic: Riverbank rebirth to shape is really really important!!!!!  
Thank you for all the great responses thus far. Hopefully more to see :-)  
 
History never really says goodbye. History says, 'See you later.' Eduardo Galeano

Norah

4/9/2017 10:15:19 PM
Member since:
Jul 2008
Total posts:617
Tax payer money

When I first saw this I thought what? It was nice the way it was Riverbank at Discovery center but yes there is no parking and floods causing more issues. Why are we spending money on something like this when our roadways and City streets need repairs and yes the 8th street bridge we have no money for that but millions for building a park and purchasing sculptures come on.

 
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