Discussions

Before it was allowed to be built on?  
This goes back a few years, but just asking.  
It is in the flood plain, yet the city planners allowed development.  
Now tax payers dollars must protect it year after year.  
 
(And I do know that not everybody at city hall agrees with it)  
 
 
 
 
Edited by Jean , 2014-09-02 11:16:30

I wonder why this area was allowed for development also. The newer residential areas built by the Corral Centre was surprising due to the proximity to the river. Why do businesses choose to locate there other than "prime" location and ONLY 1/300 years chance of flooding. There's a reason it's called a flood plain. I don't understand why the city continues to allow for construction in flood plains north or south of the river?

And the dikes are not built to protect the corral centre they are built to protect 18th street

Well, you can blame the brilliant minds at City Hall through the 2000's that allowed this to happen. I believe Dave Burgess was Mayor when that land deal was approved?

Jean, I suggest you contact the Brandon Land Titles Office on 705 Princess Avenue.  
 
I think that Winnipeg's Shindico Development was the initial leasing agent of the Corral Centre at the time? Who they bought the land from I am not aware of.  
 
Shindico has not been immune to controversy in terms of Mayor Sam Katz of Winnipeg and his alleged dealings with Shindico, but they seem to be an upfront developer with lots of $$$.  
 
This doesn't answer your question directly, but sometimes one has to do research in reverse and start with what one knows.  
 
Land Titles would be your best bet at this time I think.  
 
Future development studies that were done pre-build would be very interesting before the Corral Centre was developed. Contacting Shindico might be a start.  
 
http://www.shindico.com/  
 
Edited by michelle, 2014-09-02 11:35:48

Thanks for your ideas.

Why is it only limited to the Corral Center? Why not include all the development from 1st to 18th? All those homes along Kirkcaldy should never have been built either. Same with all the businesses and homes south of the 18th st river bridge to the bridge going over the tracks.  
 
Here is a question to ask....If the reservoirs built were used properly would we still get flooding to the scale we do now? If the Shellmouth Reservoir was drained to minimal levels as it was constructed for could it not handle this flow of water? Seems that over the years it has become a fishing destination and cottage recreation area. Seems that takes priority over anything downstream. Poor person wouldn't have lake front property as it would be about 500 ft away when drained.  
 
The dam and reservoir are part of a strategy to reduce the risk of flooding on the Assiniboine River and in Winnipeg. For example, in the 1997 Red River Flood, the inflow to the reservoir peaked at 10,000 cubic feet per second (280 m3/s) while the outflow never exceeded 1,700 cu ft/s (48 m3/s).[2] The reservoir is also used to supplement flows on the Assiniboine when conditions are dry ensuring water supply for Brandon, Portage la Prairie, irrigators and some industries.

I remember when it was just a grassy hill...That's how old I am. Lol. FargoBob and Doug may agree with my armchair assessment.

That is cute.  
 
I read the Brandon Sun on the weekend, about what will they do with future planning around the river.  

Good point. I was just wondering about who the owners were, and how did these deals come about?  
What were they thinking, and were the planning restrictions different then?

People see the money spent to protect it but they fail to also see the taxes collected from the businesses and houses in the area over the last six to ten decades.  
 
Many of the developments were with the concept of increasing the tax base.  
 
Fishin Guy has a good point about the management of the water system "above" the city limits. I agree that it has not been done proper, both with management of the damn as well as allowing landowners to fill in wetlands without proper consideration of what it will do to those that are downstream. This was a major consideration when agriculture first started 35,000 years ago.

katwalk1909 said "People see the money spent to protect it but they fail to also see the taxes collected from the businesses and houses in the area over the last six to ten decades.     Many of the developments were with the concept of increasing the tax base.     Fishin Guy has a good point about the management of the water system "above" the city limits. I agree that it has not been done proper, both with management of the damn as well as allowing landowners to fill in wetlands without proper consideration of what it will do to those that are downstream. This was a major consideration when agriculture first started 35,000 years ago. "

Could you add a link so I can learn more about 'many of the developments were with the concept of increasing the tax base' for this Corral Centre development? I grew up playing on that grassy hill but was not here when development was going on. Need more info - thx.

'Build it and they will come'  
 
They still come in droves to shop.  
 
It was a horrible plan, and may have been better in embellishing it as a little jewel as nature intended.

Hackeda said "    katwalk1909 said "People see the money spent to protect it but they fail to also see the taxes collected from the businesses and houses in the area over the last six to ten decades.     Many of the developments were with the concept of increasing the tax base.     Fishin Guy has a good point about the management of the water system "above" the city limits. I agree that it has not been done proper, both with management of the damn as well as allowing landowners to fill in wetlands without proper consideration of what it will do to those that are downstream. This was a major consideration when agriculture first started 35,000 years ago. " Could you add a link so I can learn more about 'many of the developments were with the concept of increasing the tax base' for this Corral Centre development? I grew up playing on that grassy hill but was not here when development was going on. Need more info - thx. "

I am pretty sure Katwalk is saying that the development of the business area and the development of the residential area were done with the mindset of increasing a tax base. I don't think it is meant as you are implying. I really don't think the main reason for development is to create work decades later. Why was Winnipeg built then? It is on one giant flood plain hence the spillway creation to protect it. Think Winnipeg was "Hey lets build a city here so when we get flooded 200 years later we can spend money to not get flooded."

Most of the housing lots around Kirkaldy school were built and designed by the city of Brandon

If you go back into the 60's people owned some of the land east of the corral center and had houses down there, the people who lived down there were bought out by the city because it was a flood plain and forced to move. I can't remember there ever being any building in the area right where the center is, if I remember correctly that area did seem lower and pretty rough compared to the houses to the east.

Wasn't owned by anybody but rather eventually was possessed by Europeans.

It is a beautiful spot, in ALL these areas.  
But when it rains, she pours!  
Then it isn't so pretty.  
Yes, lots of tax dollars, job opportunities, people's livelihoods in these areas.  
Just looking for options, that's all. There will be a silver lining to this situation.

Jean said "It is a beautiful spot, in ALL these areas.   But when it rains, she pours!   Then it isn't so pretty.   Yes, lots of tax dollars, job opportunities, people's livelihoods in these areas.   Just looking for options, that's all. There will be a silver lining to this situation. "

It's the beauty of capitalism. We need "stuff" to be considered rich.  
 
Not in my books.

Brandon's original transportation was the river. The railway then built by the river to carry goods over the land. Therefore, the city built itself around these main sources of transportation.  
 
The land was very fertile and produced the food the earlier settlers needed. This was why the Research Station was built where it was. It would be interesting to compare the acreage of wetlands upstream from the 1920s to how much there is now.  

Opinionated said "Well, you can blame the brilliant minds at City Hall through the 2000's that allowed this to happen. I believe Dave Burgess was Mayor when that land deal was approved? "

That is correct

don brown said "If you go back into the 60's people owned some of the land east of the corral center and had houses down there, the people who lived down there were bought out by the city because it was a flood plain and forced to move. I can't remember there ever being any building in the area right where the center is, if I remember correctly that area did seem lower and pretty rough compared to the houses to the east. "

Makes no sense to me why the city would develop land and continue to do so. Those residents had to move then but then the city allows development right across the avenue?  
 
I'd really like to know how all this development came about-residential and the Corral Centre.  
 

Hackeda said "    don brown said "If you go back into the 60's people owned some of the land east of the corral center and had houses down there, the people who lived down there were bought out by the city because it was a flood plain and forced to move. I can't remember there ever being any building in the area right where the center is, if I remember correctly that area did seem lower and pretty rough compared to the houses to the east. " Makes no sense to me why the city would develop land and continue to do so. Those residents had to move then but then the city allows development right across the avenue?     I'd really like to know how all this development came about-residential and the Corral Centre.     "

Ask Mr. Chrest...he was part of the council in those days was he not ? ?

braid said "    Hackeda said "    don brown said "If you go back into the 60's people owned some of the land east of the corral center and had houses down there, the people who lived down there were bought out by the city because it was a flood plain and forced to move. I can't remember there ever being any building in the area right where the center is, if I remember correctly that area did seem lower and pretty rough compared to the houses to the east. " Makes no sense to me why the city would develop land and continue to do so. Those residents had to move then but then the city allows development right across the avenue?     I'd really like to know how all this development came about-residential and the Corral Centre.     " Ask Mr. Chrest...he was part of the council in those days was he not ? ? "

If and when any mayoral candidates swim their way up here, I definitely have a lot of questions so for all of them

his twitter handle is @RickChrest. I'm sure he'll provide some sort of answer since this seems to be a reasonable question.

Out by Riverheights, etc was not necessarily an option - from what we've been told the land owner is holding on until it's the last spots in town before developing.

One of the key reasons was the availability of services . Homes on that side of the river were built 1st st west and on top of the hill. The least expensive option is to hook into existing infrastructure which would have been assemble in the area the Coral center was built. Based on the services to the homes off of 1st.  
 
The Black property which is the area people are referring to on top of the hill or south of highland didn't and still doesn't have access to any city sewer and water. The secondary plan was done for the area but even to date the city has not said what it will cost to have services to support any development of this area.  
 
I have heard from a person in the know that the city is very aware of the approximate cost to get services to this area but have no idea how they will pay for it. It is thought to the in the multi millions of dollars just to get the services to the edge of this property to support any development. Until that happens this land, as it was when the coral center was built, is farm land.  
 

Nordberg said "katwalk would have a good pint about increasing the tax base... if it was the only available space. It was not.     The tax base would have increased by just as much if the Corral Centre was up at the highway. I suspect it would have been better located up there. Better access and better visibility to out-of-towners, either on Highland near A&W and the Super 8, or west of the Husky.     Hell, even another part of town, perhaps out on Victoria Ave west past Riverheights Terrace.     There were better places to increase the tax base... "

hardly travel to CC but let's move it further away, makes sense eh?  
 
Where ever any new development takes place there will be challenges, just look at the new housing in the south end. Might as well close the city down for any housing or commercial.

Nordberg said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Nordberg said "katwalk would have a good pint about increasing the tax base... if it was the only available space. It was not.     The tax base would have increased by just as much if the Corral Centre was up at the highway. I suspect it would have been better located up there. Better access and better visibility to out-of-towners, either on Highland near A&W and the Super 8, or west of the Husky.     Hell, even another part of town, perhaps out on Victoria Ave west past Riverheights Terrace.     There were better places to increase the tax base... " hardly travel to CC but let's move it further away, makes sense eh?     Where ever any new development takes place there will be challenges, just look at the new housing in the south end. Might as well close the city down for any housing or commercial. " My point was, it was not the only location available.     What about out behind Fountain Tire where Outback drive is now?     I'm sure there are much better places it could have been built. It should have never been allowed on a flood plain. That is the point.     Before Walmart was even open it had a flood of water on the floor during a heavy rain. "

And my point is, since Walmart has moved so far away I hardly spend any money there!  
 
Whatever, any building or home that is built brings in tax money, way to go former mayors and councillors for actually adding to the tax base and not just relying on the taxpayers! Like it is now!

Nordberg said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Nordberg said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Nordberg said "katwalk would have a good pint about increasing the tax base... if it was the only available space. It was not.     The tax base would have increased by just as much if the Corral Centre was up at the highway. I suspect it would have been better located up there. Better access and better visibility to out-of-towners, either on Highland near A&W and the Super 8, or west of the Husky.     Hell, even another part of town, perhaps out on Victoria Ave west past Riverheights Terrace.     There were better places to increase the tax base... " hardly travel to CC but let's move it further away, makes sense eh?     Where ever any new development takes place there will be challenges, just look at the new housing in the south end. Might as well close the city down for any housing or commercial. " My point was, it was not the only location available.     What about out behind Fountain Tire where Outback drive is now?     I'm sure there are much better places it could have been built. It should have never been allowed on a flood plain. That is the point.     Before Walmart was even open it had a flood of water on the floor during a heavy rain. " And my point is, since Walmart has moved so far away I hardly spend any money there!     Whatever, any building or home that is built brings in tax money, way to go former mayors and councillors for actually adding to the tax base and not just relying on the taxpayers! Like it is now! " perhaps that's a good thing?     Adding to the tax base is good. I just wonder if the Corral Centre costs more in flood protection and remediation than it brings in in taxes. Had it been built on higher ground it would still bring in the same taxes, and we would not be spending taxpayers' money trying to protect it.     Edit: Using the rationale of "increasing the tax base", perhaps we should get Shindico to develop the Optimist Soccer Park into a retail complex. Exact same situation, it is a flood plain too.     Edited by Nordberg, 2014-09-02 17:01:34"

hmmm.... I guess along with all the homes up there the city is pulling in a ton of tax money. Businesses pay lots of taxes. Besides are the businesses and homes up on the north hill not just as important as that home on Rosser avenue east the city worked so hard to protect during rain flood 2014??