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Topic: A Church
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Shebear

10/5/2018 5:11:44 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
A Church

Hi Does anyone know the name of the small church that is behind greenwood apts? Has anyone attended it?

Tagged as: church
Gmaj7

10/5/2018 6:30:42 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:86
Name is...

Gospel Hall, Don't go there but here is some info  
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_Hall_Assemblies

Gmaj7

10/5/2018 9:10:01 PM
Member since:
Mar 2010
Total posts:86
That should say...

  
Gmaj7 said "Gospel Hall, Don't go there but here is some info  
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_Hall_Assemblies "

I don't go there.

Shebear

10/5/2018 9:45:55 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
hi

thanks for the title, has anyone gone there?

BigDaddy 2

10/6/2018 7:57:32 AM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:815
I grew

up in the Gospel Halls, not this one but in BC. Heck, I used to live in the basement as a kid for a few years. What do you want to know? They are all basically the same and I have many relatives that travel around North America preaching in them. So while I can't give you specific details on this specific Hall, I can give you back grounds and how they typically "operate".  
I am not part of the Gospel Halls any longer, as I go to Pentecostal buildings now. But as I said, my family still goes out west and when I am there go with them and enjoy it. Fire the questions you have and I will try to answer them!

Shebear

10/6/2018 5:22:34 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
hi

  
BigDaddy 2 said "up in the Gospel Halls, not this one but in BC. Heck, I used to live in the basement as a kid for a few years. What do you want to know? They are all basically the same and I have many relatives that travel around North America preaching in them. So while I can't give you specific details on this specific Hall, I can give you back grounds and how they typically "operate".  
I am not part of the Gospel Halls any longer, as I go to Pentecostal buildings now. But as I said, my family still goes out west and when I am there go with them and enjoy it. Fire the questions you have and I will try to answer them! "

Thats cool you found a church you are happy with. So how do they typically operate? Guess just want to know peoples experience with them before I go check them out. Trying to find a local church to attend....

BigDaddy 2

10/6/2018 6:08:06 PM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:815
They

are usually very straight "laced" and reserved. Typically they have no instruments, all old hymns and preaching style is very Bible backed and sometimes hell/fire/brimstone. They do communion every week and they stick to the teachings in the Bible without wavering. You will learn lots, be challenged lots.....but it is not for everyone. The closest way to outsiders is to say it''s almost like Mennonites, but slightly different. When I go to my aunts church in BC, I have to sit in the back as I am not affiliated with the Gospel Halls (even though that''s the church I lived in). This dates back to when Paul warned the churches of false prophets and people wanting to harm believers and would gain access by saying they were Christians. So my aunt would have one of the elders write her a letter for her to go to that hall, or would need someone there to speak for her.  
The biggest one that gets many people and will cause debate here, is that women are silent in the church. This does not mean that you don''t have a voice or can''t sing, it means that you will never see a female preacher, except a missionary or possibly womens service/retreat. This also dates back to the old days where women weren''t schooled and did not have the etiquette and would speak loudly or argue during services. Whether this is right or wrong this is what they do. My aunt has been going to the same church for 73yrs and is well respected by everyone in there. She is looked after very well, as she is old and not well off and the whole church family makes sure she is looked after. So it''s not a sexist thing or to keep the women down, it''s just they stick to the bible very word for word....if that makes sense.  
Take a hat/tam or something to place on your head as a woman. As this is back when women were instruct to cover their heads in a sign of respect and men could not cover their heads in the church. I have seen little old ladies forget their head coverings and go into the bathroom and get a paper towel to wear on their heads. No one judged them, cause every one forgets something from time to time!!  
For me, this style of church is to strict and I like more upbeat. I love going, listening to preaching from them, but I like laid back. While it sounds very outdated, my aunts church has probably 100+, many young families, many new Canadians from all over the world, and I actually grew up with an ex-Hells Angel that made that his home church. So it''s all what you want and what makes you feel comfortable. I''ve been out of the Gospel Halls for nearly 30yrs and I can walk into any one and be accepted with my tattoos and clothing and will learn something new. Just be prepared for a very straight and narrow experience.  
Growing up we didn''t have TV/video games as it took time away from God, no working Sundays, as it was the day of rest. Couldn''t play cards (except stuff like UNO) as it was Gambling and that was against the bible. We had a joke as kids "why can''t Gospel Hallers have premarital sex?.....Cause it leads to dancing"! But it was a great upbringing, just different than most are used too.  
Sorry for the long winded post (get used to that as most preachers are that way). There are lots of good churches in town, just depends on what you''re after and what you''re used to. Try it, you may love it! My aunt is sitting in conferences right now which are 12hr days from today - monday for thanksgiving and she looks forward to Easter which is the same and hasn''t missed one in probably 73yrs! If you have any other questions fire away.  
 
Edited by BigDaddy 2, 2018-10-06 18:28:10

Shebear

10/6/2018 7:54:42 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
some

  
BigDaddy 2 said "are usually very straight "laced" and reserved. Typically they have no instruments, all old hymns and preaching style is very Bible backed and sometimes hell/fire/brimstone. They do communion every week and they stick to the teachings in the Bible without wavering. You will learn lots, be challenged lots.....but it is not for everyone. The closest way to outsiders is to say it''s almost like Mennonites, but slightly different. When I go to my aunts church in BC, I have to sit in the back as I am not affiliated with the Gospel Halls (even though that''s the church I lived in). This dates back to when Paul warned the churches of false prophets and people wanting to harm believers and would gain access by saying they were Christians. So my aunt would have one of the elders write her a letter for her to go to that hall, or would need someone there to speak for her.  
The biggest one that gets many people and will cause debate here, is that women are silent in the church. This does not mean that you don''t have a voice or can''t sing, it means that you will never see a female preacher, except a missionary or possibly womens service/retreat. This also dates back to the old days where women weren''t schooled and did not have the etiquette and would speak loudly or argue during services. Whether this is right or wrong this is what they do. My aunt has been going to the same church for 73yrs and is well respected by everyone in there. She is looked after very well, as she is old and not well off and the whole church family makes sure she is looked after. So it''s not a sexist thing or to keep the women down, it''s just they stick to the bible very word for word....if that makes sense.  
Take a hat/tam or something to place on your head as a woman. As this is back when women were instruct to cover their heads in a sign of respect and men could not cover their heads in the church. I have seen little old ladies forget their head coverings and go into the bathroom and get a paper towel to wear on their heads. No one judged them, cause every one forgets something from time to time!!  
For me, this style of church is to strict and I like more upbeat. I love going, listening to preaching from them, but I like laid back. While it sounds very outdated, my aunts church has probably 100+, many young families, many new Canadians from all over the world, and I actually grew up with an ex-Hells Angel that made that his home church. So it''s all what you want and what makes you feel comfortable. I''ve been out of the Gospel Halls for nearly 30yrs and I can walk into any one and be accepted with my tattoos and clothing and will learn something new. Just be prepared for a very straight and narrow experience.  
Growing up we didn''t have TV/video games as it took time away from God, no working Sundays, as it was the day of rest. Couldn''t play cards (except stuff like UNO) as it was Gambling and that was against the bible. We had a joke as kids "why can''t Gospel Hallers have premarital sex?.....Cause it leads to dancing"! But it was a great upbringing, just different than most are used too.  
Sorry for the long winded post (get used to that as most preachers are that way). There are lots of good churches in town, just depends on what you''re after and what you''re used to. Try it, you may love it! My aunt is sitting in conferences right now which are 12hr days from today - monday for thanksgiving and she looks forward to Easter which is the same and hasn''t missed one in probably 73yrs! If you have any other questions fire away.  
 
Edited by BigDaddy 2, 2018-10-06 18:28:10"

of their stuff does seem mennonite type, or even JW who come across as strict, minus the head covering. Im guessing the reason for no card playing is playing careds are related to the tarot...unless Im wrong on that. The joke was funny I might look into checking out a sunday service at the gospel hall or try phoning first find out times, and just see how the vibe is there. Your post was interesting.

Flutterby

10/6/2018 11:19:53 PM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1199

Please don't stereotype Mennonites as one way and that way being as you described. There are many, many varied beliefs, ways of dress, etc., among them and various reasons why they do vary. You may be thinking more of the Old Order type as far as some aspects (dress), but the church & belief system still sounds quite different from the Mennonites.  
 
The Mennonite churches in Brandon are no where close to what you mentioned, although Grace is pretty stiff. We commented that you could hear a pin drop during the service when we went there a long time ago, & the singing was far from what historical Mennonite harmonious singing should be. It seemed dead in that area, which was sad, since I love harmony. That said, it could have changed by now.  
 
Card playing is associated with gambling, so this is where that belief comes in. It is a pretty straight forward and understandable conclusion.  
 
Shebear, you might want to check out other churches too. Faith Fellowship (Willowdale & 34th?) can be good and isn't too uptight. The Alliance on McDiarmid is okay, but have a really big congregation that you could get lost in and I have found they are big on the performance/entertainment end of things.  
 
Go to a few, try more than once. Ask questions. I have been to quite a few different churches in Brandon in the past. If you want to contact me, feel free to do so.

BigDaddy 2

10/7/2018 10:30:25 AM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:815
The

mennonite reference was in no way an insult or stereotype....but the easiest way to describe it to someone that is not associated with different denominations. Just the same as: there is a church that sings up beat music, dances, speaks in tongues and is very charismatic. First denomination that would come to most peoples minds would be the Pentecostals, with a close second, Baptists. But the Pentecostal church I attend is actually very reserved and does not resemble the stereo typical Pentecostal church, but it's something that most people can associate with.  
No need to take offence to it and yes, there are many different churches in 1 denominations out there, with many different ways of worshiping.

Flutterby

10/7/2018 10:50:48 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1199
BigDaddy_2

No offense taken.  
 
I reacted in the way that I did because I'm aware of so many people who will take something they hear (or read here or otherwise) and run with that bit of information, insisting a people group or belief is fully like the tidbit that they read or heard, and will argue with the people who live it that that is how it is. That is the most frustrating thing. Mennonites are often not understood as a people group. So many mix them up with Hutterites or the Amish. Each group is quite distinct.  
 
Thanks for being willing to clarify. I appreciate it. I am hoping that I didn't offend you either.

summerlove

10/7/2018 3:01:57 PM
Member since:
Aug 2014
Total posts:6
I go to that gospel hall

I go to that church, there is a thanksgiving conference this Sunday and Monday. there will be meetings all day, along with big meals and visiting. everyone is invited to come, there will be visitors from all over Manitoba and Saskatchewan. The next thing on the schedule is supper tonight at 5:30 followed by evening meeting at 7. Monday first meeting is a bible study at 10 am followed by lunch at 12. There will be Meetings all afternoon then supper at 5:30

summerlove

10/7/2018 3:10:27 PM
Member since:
Aug 2014
Total posts:6
Brandon Gospel Hall schedule

Our normal meeting times are  
Sunday morning 9:30 -10:30 communion  
Coffee break till 11:30  
Bible study - and Sunday school downstairs for the kids from 11:30 - 12:30  
Potluck lunch every Sunday 1 - 1:45  
Gospel meeting 1:45 till 2:15 or 2:30  
 
Tues night prayer meeting and bible study from 7:30- 8:45

Kellye

10/7/2018 3:44:45 PM
Member since:
Dec 2013
Total posts:606
Good to know

  
BigDaddy 2 said "are usually very straight "laced" and reserved. Typically they have no instruments, all old hymns and preaching style is very Bible backed and sometimes hell/fire/brimstone. They do communion every week and they stick to the teachings in the Bible without wavering. You will learn lots, be challenged lots.....but it is not for everyone. The closest way to outsiders is to say it''s almost like Mennonites, but slightly different. When I go to my aunts church in BC, I have to sit in the back as I am not affiliated with the Gospel Halls (even though that''s the church I lived in). This dates back to when Paul warned the churches of false prophets and people wanting to harm believers and would gain access by saying they were Christians. So my aunt would have one of the elders write her a letter for her to go to that hall, or would need someone there to speak for her.  
The biggest one that gets many people and will cause debate here, is that women are silent in the church. This does not mean that you don''t have a voice or can''t sing, it means that you will never see a female preacher, except a missionary or possibly womens service/retreat. This also dates back to the old days where women weren''t schooled and did not have the etiquette and would speak loudly or argue during services. Whether this is right or wrong this is what they do. My aunt has been going to the same church for 73yrs and is well respected by everyone in there. She is looked after very well, as she is old and not well off and the whole church family makes sure she is looked after. So it''s not a sexist thing or to keep the women down, it''s just they stick to the bible very word for word....if that makes sense.  
Take a hat/tam or something to place on your head as a woman. As this is back when women were instruct to cover their heads in a sign of respect and men could not cover their heads in the church. I have seen little old ladies forget their head coverings and go into the bathroom and get a paper towel to wear on their heads. No one judged them, cause every one forgets something from time to time!!  
For me, this style of church is to strict and I like more upbeat. I love going, listening to preaching from them, but I like laid back. While it sounds very outdated, my aunts church has probably 100+, many young families, many new Canadians from all over the world, and I actually grew up with an ex-Hells Angel that made that his home church. So it''s all what you want and what makes you feel comfortable. I''ve been out of the Gospel Halls for nearly 30yrs and I can walk into any one and be accepted with my tattoos and clothing and will learn something new. Just be prepared for a very straight and narrow experience.  
Growing up we didn''t have TV/video games as it took time away from God, no working Sundays, as it was the day of rest. Couldn''t play cards (except stuff like UNO) as it was Gambling and that was against the bible. We had a joke as kids "why can''t Gospel Hallers have premarital sex?.....Cause it leads to dancing"! But it was a great upbringing, just different than most are used too.  
Sorry for the long winded post (get used to that as most preachers are that way). There are lots of good churches in town, just depends on what you''re after and what you''re used to. Try it, you may love it! My aunt is sitting in conferences right now which are 12hr days from today - monday for thanksgiving and she looks forward to Easter which is the same and hasn''t missed one in probably 73yrs! If you have any other questions fire away.  
 
Edited by BigDaddy 2, 2018-10-06 18:28:10"

A religious organization that generally forbids women to speak, cover their heads while praying or forbidding them to have any role whatsoever in the church, clearly says they should remain submissive to the man...really good to know. Wow. Is this still happening in this day and age? Apparently so.  
 
http://gospelhall.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1142  
 
To each their own, I suppose.  
I just thought these kind of religions are a little archaic.  
 
Not trying to start a debate, but I had no idea this this draws families as a place to worship.

BigDaddy 2

10/7/2018 4:13:23 PM
Member since:
May 2010
Total posts:815
Kellye

if you don't want to start a debate about that than why even post that to this thread. It is clearly not a debating thread, it was asking questions about the church. It's no different than an argument about speaking in tongues or not speaking in tongues....if you don't like speaking in tongues, don't go to a church that speaks in tongues. If you don't like the fact that some churches still hold to old teachings of the bible, don't go and don't argue to try to change their ways.

Shebear

10/7/2018 6:52:23 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
Hi

  
summerlove said "Our normal meeting times are  
Sunday morning 9:30 -10:30 communion  
Coffee break till 11:30  
Bible study - and Sunday school downstairs for the kids from 11:30 - 12:30  
Potluck lunch every Sunday 1 - 1:45  
Gospel meeting 1:45 till 2:15 or 2:30  
 
Tues night prayer meeting and bible study from 7:30- 8:45 "

Thank you for the info So the church service doesnt start technically until after lunch? lol Thats a long sunday from 9:30 - 2:30 lol Well for someone not used to it Good there are bible studies.... are meetings the same as what others would consider church service?

Shebear

10/7/2018 7:16:43 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
hi

  
Kellye said "
  
BigDaddy 2 said "are usually very straight "laced" and reserved. Typically they have no instruments, all old hymns and preaching style is very Bible backed and sometimes hell/fire/brimstone. They do communion every week and they stick to the teachings in the Bible without wavering. You will learn lots, be challenged lots.....but it is not for everyone. The closest way to outsiders is to say it''s almost like Mennonites, but slightly different. When I go to my aunts church in BC, I have to sit in the back as I am not affiliated with the Gospel Halls (even though that''s the church I lived in). This dates back to when Paul warned the churches of false prophets and people wanting to harm believers and would gain access by saying they were Christians. So my aunt would have one of the elders write her a letter for her to go to that hall, or would need someone there to speak for her.  
The biggest one that gets many people and will cause debate here, is that women are silent in the church. This does not mean that you don''t have a voice or can''t sing, it means that you will never see a female preacher, except a missionary or possibly womens service/retreat. This also dates back to the old days where women weren''t schooled and did not have the etiquette and would speak loudly or argue during services. Whether this is right or wrong this is what they do. My aunt has been going to the same church for 73yrs and is well respected by everyone in there. She is looked after very well, as she is old and not well off and the whole church family makes sure she is looked after. So it''s not a sexist thing or to keep the women down, it''s just they stick to the bible very word for word....if that makes sense.  
Take a hat/tam or something to place on your head as a woman. As this is back when women were instruct to cover their heads in a sign of respect and men could not cover their heads in the church. I have seen little old ladies forget their head coverings and go into the bathroom and get a paper towel to wear on their heads. No one judged them, cause every one forgets something from time to time!!  
For me, this style of church is to strict and I like more upbeat. I love going, listening to preaching from them, but I like laid back. While it sounds very outdated, my aunts church has probably 100+, many young families, many new Canadians from all over the world, and I actually grew up with an ex-Hells Angel that made that his home church. So it''s all what you want and what makes you feel comfortable. I''ve been out of the Gospel Halls for nearly 30yrs and I can walk into any one and be accepted with my tattoos and clothing and will learn something new. Just be prepared for a very straight and narrow experience.  
Growing up we didn''t have TV/video games as it took time away from God, no working Sundays, as it was the day of rest. Couldn''t play cards (except stuff like UNO) as it was Gambling and that was against the bible. We had a joke as kids "why can''t Gospel Hallers have premarital sex?.....Cause it leads to dancing"! But it was a great upbringing, just different than most are used too.  
Sorry for the long winded post (get used to that as most preachers are that way). There are lots of good churches in town, just depends on what you''re after and what you''re used to. Try it, you may love it! My aunt is sitting in conferences right now which are 12hr days from today - monday for thanksgiving and she looks forward to Easter which is the same and hasn''t missed one in probably 73yrs! If you have any other questions fire away.  
 
Edited by BigDaddy 2, 2018-10-06 18:28:10"

A religious organization that generally forbids women to speak, cover their heads while praying or forbidding them to have any role whatsoever in the church, clearly says they should remain submissive to the man...really good to know. Wow. Is this still happening in this day and age? Apparently so.  
 
http://gospelhall.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1142  
 
To each their own, I suppose.  
I just thought these kind of religions are a little archaic.  
 
Not trying to start a debate, but I had no idea this this draws families as a place to worship. "

I dont think it means women cant speak at all, and covering of the hair is done even by nuns and there are other christian groups who feel women covering their head is a good thing...I guess no different than women who wore hats to church. As for submissive to a man, its not crack the whip thing,its more just a respect thing as long as the man is good to his wife and kind and not bossy or abusive cause that crap doesnt belong in any relationship/church and Jesus never treated women disrespectfully. Some people will view some of these things as archaic as you do, and thats your view and thats ok, we are all individuals with our right to agree/disagree with something. While some things might be viewed as wrong in our society that sometimes has a tendency to call good bad and bad good in some things, it isnt wrong to follow / believe old fashioned bible ways that at one time were the norm, as long as there is no abuse going on...common sense. Times have changed alot and that's where free speech comes in, again as long as its not abusive (and I dont mean PCorrect idea of abusive with borg mentality if you dare to be different) and as long as you dont hurt others and are being kind helping others and being a better person through your religious beliefs then thats ok. Not everyone will agree with some things in every religion on the planet. There are good and bad people in religious,spiritual,atheists etc. People choose to be bad or mean to others and use religion to justify their behaviour which is wrong. Jesus didn't hurt others he helped them, so trying to follow his teachings can be a good thing. I'm looking for a church that is into Jesus and the bible and not judgemental. I know a witch/pagan,muslims,hindus atheists,agnostics,born agains,JW's, Just trying to find abit of happiness in this sometimes dark judgemental my sh*t dont stink world lol

Shebear

10/7/2018 8:14:10 PM
Member since:
Aug 2013
Total posts:430
Hi

  
Flutterby said "Please don't stereotype Mennonites as one way and that way being as you described. There are many, many varied beliefs, ways of dress, etc., among them and various reasons why they do vary. You may be thinking more of the Old Order type as far as some aspects (dress), but the church & belief system still sounds quite different from the Mennonites.  
 
The Mennonite churches in Brandon are no where close to what you mentioned, although Grace is pretty stiff. We commented that you could hear a pin drop during the service when we went there a long time ago, & the singing was far from what historical Mennonite harmonious singing should be. It seemed dead in that area, which was sad, since I love harmony. That said, it could have changed by now.  
 
Card playing is associated with gambling, so this is where that belief comes in. It is a pretty straight forward and understandable conclusion.  
 
Shebear, you might want to check out other churches too. Faith Fellowship (Willowdale & 34th?) can be good and isn't too uptight. The Alliance on McDiarmid is okay, but have a really big congregation that you could get lost in and I have found they are big on the performance/entertainment end of things.  
 
Go to a few, try more than once. Ask questions. I have been to quite a few different churches in Brandon in the past. If you want to contact me, feel free to do so. "

You mentioned about cards being associated with gambling...just for info sake here is where playing cards where it started to use them for divination and they are related to the tarot which was originally just a card game with the tarot looking different back then to the modern tarot. Here is part of the page:  
"One cannot forget to mention the use of cards for the purpose of divination. According to Hoffman, the first use of cards to tell the future was in the 1480's when a German 'Book of Fates' was published. One shuffled a deck of customary playing cards, drew one, and then consulted the book to determine one's fate. It was only later when Court de Gebelin tried to prove an Egyptian origin to the Tarot that people began viewing them as so magical, and attributed to them the ability to tell the future. Ironically, the first cards extant in Europe, the tarrochi which was ancestor to the modern Tarot, was used only for playing games, yet now the modern Tarot is used nearly exclusively for the purpose of meditation and divination. It was the simplified playing card deck that was first used for divination, yet now it is nearly exclusively used for playing games." and here is the link. Again this is only one page I found...and you can use playing cards for divination to this day due to their connection with tarot in suits like hearts, clubs etc. Not saying you are wrong, just info to reflect on.  
https://www.druidry.org/library/history-playing-cards-and-tarot

LightsOn

10/18/2018 7:08:59 PM
Member since:
Oct 2018
Total posts:1
Mennonite Culture

I am curious if anyone is familiar with the Holdeman Mennonite Culture that are around the area of Brandon? Where is this Church located?  
If anyone has info pertaining to this Church that are willing to share? Thanks

Flutterby

10/18/2018 10:58:30 PM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1199
Shebear

That is most likely a part of it as well.

Flutterby

10/18/2018 11:02:27 PM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1199

  
LightsOn said "I am curious if anyone is familiar with the Holdeman Mennonite Culture that are around the area of Brandon? Where is this Church located?  
If anyone has info pertaining to this Church that are willing to share? Thanks "

You can find one at Cromer. I am not familiar with any around Brandon. Not sure if there is one in the Austin-McGregor area. I know there is a Mennonite church there...but I am not sure of specific belief.

jimjab

10/19/2018 9:54:51 AM
Member since:
Jul 2014
Total posts:9
holdeman mennonite....

  
LightsOn said "I am curious if anyone is familiar with the Holdeman Mennonite Culture that are around the area of Brandon? Where is this Church located?  
If anyone has info pertaining to this Church that are willing to share? Thanks "

Hi... I have attended a H.church occasionally in the past....wonderful people,great accapela singing.Very hospitable,orthodox in doctrine.They believe in a conversion experience salvation.Bapbtism by pouring ,I think,or sprinkling.Their church is called"church of God inChrist (Mennonite).Only congregations I am aware of in Mb are at Grandview,Bernie,st anne,Sinclair,and maybe Whitemouth.There could be others...Well connected in the U S A.Check em out....You will enjoy .

Flutterby

10/19/2018 11:55:38 AM
Member since:
Sep 2007
Total posts:1199
Holdeman

 
 
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