Discussions

Haven’t read this myself, do you have a direct link to the story?  
 
It’s definitely grown into a real nice event for Brandon but as a taxpayer that sees how many hoops council had to jump through to keep the tax increase low I’d want to see good verifiable o:bjective data that by waiving the fee the net dollars for the taxpayer are meaningfully positive.  
 
I can’t speak for area restaurants but on some level for this weekend the event is a competitor to them and would hope that by the time any decision is made they feel like they’ve gotten a fair shake (and not just ones that put a truck in that weekend)  
 
Either way, looking forward to seeing what trucks are in town this time around. We got back from Oahu not long ago and enjoyed the food trucks scattered around the North Shore. Nice to have that dynamic here for a weekend!  
 
Edited by Adam, 2019-02-13 12:21:53

https://www.brandonsun.com/local/Council-to-hold-public-hearing-on-borrowing-16-million-505250001.html

Blueyedbabe what does a council hearing about a 16 million dollar chemical plant at the water treatment facility have to did with food trucks?

Many of these trucks are only here three days a year, so I would agree with waving the fee. However, I think the city could charge a public property usage fee at a lower rate (not everything can be free).  
 
For those that say food trucks can afford the high fees because they make a lot of money....it's not always the case...  
 
Cost of fuel to drive from their last venue to Brandon: $50 (based on a 250 km trip, could cost more)  
 
Cost of licenses, fees, and venue costs $1,200  
 
Propane costs: $200 per day times three days  
 
Advertising and promotion: $500  
 
Staffing: $1400 per event (based on four staff, 10 hour days, $11.50-hr)  
 
Camping or hotel accommodations: $250-300/event  
 
Depreciated daily cost/wear and tear on vehicle/food truck: $50/day  
 
Insurance and food permits $500  
 
Fuel back home: $50 or more  
 
SO FAR, the costs before buying or selling any product is $4800. So, the vendor MUST make $4800 over the course of the event to break even...  
 
30,000 in attendance. One third, or 10,000 people will spend money at the event. Only one third of those will support any one truck (let's be realistic, 10,000 people won't spend money at EVERY SINGLE TRUCK)...  
 
A truck draws 3400 people, each spends $7.00 = $23,800 in sales. Your profit margin on food, after waste, is about 20-25%. The trucks profit before costs is $5950. Subtract your fixed costs of $4800, and the total profit for the weekend is $1150.  
 
$1150 sure isn't a lot to live off of when you are a traveling food truck.

Further down the article about the council meeting. It states that there will be a presentation regarding waiving the license fees for the food truck warz in September

I did. Maybe cause I'm not a subscriber but I see nothing about the fee waving in that link. I'm not really opposed to it, I mean it is only a few days. I see both sides. They should pay something but not a full fee.

I would assume you own or know someone who runs a food truck. Going to Food Truck Warz, regardless of the profit, would be beneficial to those food truck owners in the potential of people who would buy from their truck and exposure of people walking around the area.  
 
I’m not the one who’s decided to run a food truck so I shouldn’t be responsible in covering their fees. I also question your numbers, especially ‘cost of license, fees, and venue costs $1200.’ As this event is outdoors on a public street, the venue fee would be minimal. Any cost for license and fees (which is where the $215 should be i:ncluded) would be for the year...  
 
Any other business that performs work in Brandon is expected to pay for the right to do business here. How is this any different from people that come for the winter fair, etc?

You question my numbers:  
 
A spot at the Food Trick Wars costs just under $800. A license from the city just over $200. Temporary food vendor permits, special event food inspections, and the like cost extra. So $1200 is fairly close. You said the city license fee is for the full year. If you would have read my whole post in detail, you would have seen I clearly stated most vendors only use this permit for the three day event....only once a year. $215 for "once a year" is unreasonable, since every other business in town pays half the price.  
 
You ask how it's different from those who set up at the winter fair...the difference is those at the winter fair don't necessarily pay the fee. If you feel the city should charge these trucks $215 a year, then we better start charging EVERY vendor at the "big one craft sale", the horse show, summer fair, winter fair, Rotary book sale, yard sale, and more.....none of those vendors are forced to individually pay a $215 fee!

All of this is the cost of doing business and any opportunity to get your brand in front of 30,000 people is worth the risk. I do have to poke a hole in your calculations though, as you're double-dipping on the expenses. Gross food cost is generally around 30%, give or take. If you've accounted for all of these expenses and overhead, and we gross up to 40% for argument's sake, that leaves a net profit on the food of $14,280, which is about $8300 higher than you've estimated. You'd suggested a mere $1100 profit for the weekend, but added to the $8300 it makes for a rather lucrative event. I guarantee this weekend is more of a ringer than most fairs and festivals these truckers attend.  
 
I agree, paying the yearly fee is a little much but that's mostly in part to Brandon not having food trucks really and there being no actual licensing specific to it. I enquired about the necessary licensing for food trucks here 3 years ago when I was looking into moving to Brandon, and the city office was at a loss as to how to go about it. They basically said they'd treat it like any other general business and that it would be on me to obtain Manitoba Health licensure. But they do need to look at temporary permits.  
 
As for the craft shows and what not, the bigger ones like the Big One make you provide proof of a Brandon City License or you have to pay a $15 permit fee that they submit to the city. I'm not certain on this, but I was told by someone in the know that the city limits how many of these you can do per year before you are required to obtain an actual license in the city. This is the route the temporary licenses should go.

I have a food truck (yes I have a permit and need one because I do operate in the city all the time). With that being said I travel to every other city and town in manitoba as well and have never had to have another permit for their events. People that come to the Brandon fair don’t need a permit either.  
 
I think that the city should have a temporary permit for the non local trucks and just charge less as they aren’t operating full time, it wouldn’t take them long to print up a business licence and honestly it’s just on a piece of paper printed off word and signed by a guy at city hall.  
 
Also have to wonder how many people actually have said licence for their everyday business in Brandon and if the city of Brandon fairly and properly enforces this ??

You obviously know something about the topic and spent some time crunching numbers. I would however question the part about only 1/3 people who attend spending money at the trucks. Why else would you attend other than to buy food?? I would think its closer to 90%.

When I say 1/3, it's based on 30 trucks, and on one individual truck getting 1/3 of the crowd. Honestly, no one individual is going to buy meals from ALL 30 trucks.  
 
I figure three days, three meals a day, so 9 meals sold...I rounded to 10 for easy math.  
 
30,000 people is a rough estimation by organizers, and really that 30,000 are not unique visitors, if you yourself visit all three days, they will count you as "3 visitors". That's how it is with any event...you go to the fair five times, they count you as 5 people through the gate. So once again, for figures sake, 30,000 over three days, with repeat visitors, the true "unique person" attendance is likely 10,000.  
 
I know eleven people who set up and after all costs the highest clearing was $4,000. Most made $1400-1600. I do accounting for three of these business people.  
 
For the poster above who questioned my 25% calculation, your numbers are totally wrong. The dollar figure you typed actually represents 60%, and not 40% as you stated.

The solution to this seems simple...  
 
Charge the organizers the license fee for the three days. They had 26 trucks last year, determine what their upper limit is, say 35 trucks, and charge a blanket special event fee for the entire venue.  
 
215/365 days in year x 3 day event x 35 trucks =: $61.85  
 
Or create a new special event license fee that covers up to 50 non-local vendors for up to 5 days. If local, already licensed vendors participate, they get a discount from the organizer. Fees get charged to organizers, not vendor. Make this a new city standard and you no longer need to deal with one-offs at council.  
 
Edited by PuddleJumper, 2019-02-19 08:20:50

Are you really comparing tax paying local businesses to out-of-town, not-tax-paying business?? Also, you can't lump fund-raising efforts into that...should the girl guides be charged for selling food now????  
 
The fee is to balance the playing field with those local businesses that pay high taxes 12 months a year against companies that swarm into town for 3 days and sap up all the local dollars for free...it's only fair. And, if you stack up those $200/truck against all the taxes that every food vendor in town, I mean EVERY food vendor in town, I would think the ratio would be pretty marginal.  
 
And you can't tell me that the food truck warz doesn't have a direct impact on places like Komfort Kitchen...I'd like to know how much that week end costs them.  
 
Edited by PrimeConvoy, 2019-02-19 13:50:03

I bet Komfort Kitchen does amazing numbers that weekend...especially with out of town visitors. Most any other time, people are scared crapless to go downtown, so events like this help clean up the bad image and help boost business to the local eateries.  
 
As for licensing, a restaurant in a leased premise pays far less in licensing than a food truck. On top of that, a leased restaurant doesn't directly pay taxes to the city ( some do have taxes worked into the lease)

Komfort Kitchen is one of my favourite restaurants, especially for breakfast. I specifically went there the Saturday morning of the food truck warz weekend to support them. The place was completely full with a wait list and I waited 1/2 for two breakfasts to go. Guaranteed they didn’t hurt for business that day.

I don’t think comfort kitchen is hurting by having a downtown location. I go there all the time and they are always busy. Who is scared “crap less” to go downtown? Not sure where you are getting your information...

No one said they are "hurting" being downtown. They do good business for the location. Are there better places they could open? Yes. Are there safer locations? Yes. But they are where they are and they do very well for said location.  
 
As for "who is scared crapless...", wanna know where I get my information? On E-Brandon! Look up keywords such as dangerous, crime, mugging, stabbing, and unsafe, and what posts will pop up??? Downtown, Downtown, and Downtown (and Princess Park).  
 
I take it you feel E-Brandon is not a reliable source for information? You are saying E-Brandon and it's members are misinforming me????

The misinforming happens when one takes 1 post out of 10 that happens to be louder than the other 9 and turns it into a blanket statement that they feel should reflect on the other 9.  
 
In all seriousness this has been a very interesting read as a discussion up to this point with varying perspectives for folks to consider. These discussions are best when calm and rational, I hope we can keep it that way.  
Personally I’m particularly interested in comparisons to fairs and other for-profit weekend events where businesses operate for a few days out of a calendar year. Is it an apples to apples comparison? Does scale of an event (either number of vendors or sales) factor in?  
 
Edited by Adam, 2019-02-20 22:21:35

You clearly are the expert on this and any of us, however experienced or not, won't alter your beliefs. I, being a downtown business owner, can say with strong conviction, that people aren't scared crapless to be downtown. The street is full all day every day with people of all walks of life, all ages and demographic, coming and returning and LOVING the new life happening downtown.  
 
I heard all sorts of reports of the Komfort Kitchen people being very upset by the Fopd Truck Warz and how much business they were losing, but they were also closed for much of it as they don't open beyond mid-afternoon, and I didn't see any adaptation on their part to try and capitalize on the mass Influx of people on their doorstep. But then I heard reports (like I'm seeing here) saying the place was busy as all hell that wknd so it's really tough to know what to believe. Who knows. Any added boost to downtown is good for business in general I say. We were quiet as a result bc people weren't downtown to shop or wander beyond the Food Truck stuff, but it got 30,000 people downtown when many likely hadn't been downtown in ages. Plus, anyone who felt that downtown MAY have not been safe got to see first hand that it's VERY safe!

Thanks HeffeRamirez for posting your thoughts. I've worked in the downtown area since about 1977 and only a couple of negative experiences come to mind for all that time. Nothing so negative as to make me not want to go back to the downtown area. I feel very safe, comfortable and at home in that area.  
 
Lots of events happen downtown such as Food Truck Wars, Cruise Nights and Music in the Park. Maybe the city has dropped the ball here and needs some kind of event pricing for permits, but then again, the city has to make sure they collect enough money from all sources to help keep costs reasonable for all concerned, including taxpayers.

I'm glad it was denied!