Discussions

In winter people have to sets of keys to run their vehicle when then shop. Just today I see contruction by the dollar store at Corral Centre and the workers are running 3 trucks for A/C. We're really freakin over global warming and our carbon footprint alright! Their emmsions just negated any good I was trying to do tenfold

Better a little A/C running then these construction workers getting heatstroke and landing in hospital . Have a little compassion there is no place for them to cool down around there and working on pavement increases the temp.  
 
There are so many little things we all can do for the environment - straws-plastics - etc

There is no global warming, that has been debunked. Is there climate change sure it's always changing always has and always will. as for C02 we are actually in a Co2 drought we could use more of it in the atmosphere. You have nothing to fear from C02. Plants and animals would be thriving with a little more of it in the air. Now pollution that is another thing. We need to be smarter on what we are dumping and where. That is what we have to ask our representatives about, why are they not doing anything about that.

..... if this guy ^ says we have nothing to worry about then I guess we can all ignore the vast number of climate scientists who spend their days figuring out what’s going on.  
 
Whew!

Can you please provide a source that we are in a CO2 drought and that we could use more vehicle exhaust to get more CO2 so plants and animals can thrive?  
 
Trumps tweets don't count as sources.

To the OP, You will never control what other people choose to do. You can only control what you do. If the choices you make align with your level of concern re: the environment then life is good. Don't let the action or inaction of others dictate how you address what is important to you.

I did manual labour in all weather for 40 years. No a/c, no nothing. When its hot out, hit the shade for 10 minutes every hour. Drink water. Now with portable high efficient gas generators, hook up a big industrial fan and put by the work site. A/C is a false cooling. Air movement across sweat is actually what cools you. Drink lots of water. That being said, in my opinion, Canadians, and actually most of the western world, have grown soft. We all need to toughen up. Like our parents and their parents. Put away the electronic devices, grab a shovel or a rake, elbow grease and a good sweat is what made Canada great.

Let me guess you also walked every day to school including in 50 below white out blizzards with snow up to your eye balls right?  
 
Us Canadians are just too soft....  
 
Edited by KCTurf, 2019-07-18 19:05:19

Today I learned: “AC is a false cooling”..  
 
 
Uh I think the principles of thermodynamics would like to have a word...

This thread went off the rails as soon as "Carbon Drought" Man chipped in. Breaking the laws of thermodynamics was the logical(?) next step.

When it gets really hot and humid out I start removing clothes, but nudity on a construction site doesn’t seem like a really good idea.  
Climate change is real, as far as I’m concerned, but we have to be somewhat reasonable in our expectations of reducing our carbon footprint. Judging people is never a good idea, for all we know these workers may not have air conditioning in their homes, they may use cloth shopping bags, they may keep their house heat turned down in the winter, and the may drive a hybrid car.

How people can so confidently spout such absolute nonsense with such a lack of actual research constantly amazes me. I wish I could shove my head that far in the sand sometimes...  
 
I feel like everyone should find a way to watch the new HBO documentary Ice on Fire. Very good SCIENTIFIC discussion on climate change.  
 
What a strange turn this thread took into unreality  
 
Edited by miller, 2019-07-18 21:00:09

Let's face it these guys are just trying to make a pay cheque without putting their health at risk.

https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm?fbclid=IwAR04-wPf2qaqkcp05tHbIs8X_voYlZgJKH4xVygJ1vuV2X9u9mk6z5YcV84  
 
https://climatecommunication.yale.edu/publications/even-americans-highly-concerned-about-climate-change-dramatically-underestimate-the-scientific-consensus/?fbclid=IwAR29D9eEfHN65V92GThFrfxSlcTNZCdAbfVQRdhgOUHALEXInemCtU1R1xo

It was also uphill both ways on that walk to school!

Here educate yourselves. https://youtu.be/U-9UlF8hkhs  
https://youtu.be/2Lye5liWuZw  
I guess we'll see who's right in 12 Years. I'll accept your apology's then. Here is one of the smartest scientist to ever live Freeman Dyson who worked with Einstein take on it all  
https://youtu.be/BiKfWdXXfIs

A quick Wikipedia search on your Freeman Dyson source says:  
 
"Dyson believes global warming is caused by increased carbon dioxide through burning fossil fuels, but is sceptical about the simulation models used to predict climate change, arguing that political efforts to reduce causes of climate change distract from other global problems that should take priority."  
 
So if Freeman Dyson believes that there is global warming then how can you use him as a source to say there is not global warming....  
 
Not that Wikipedia is the most reliable source but I found this quite humorous

Even watch the videos?

https://skepticalscience.com/Evidence-Squared-10-Debunking-William-Happer-carbon-cycle-myth.html  
 
https://skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm  
 
Even big oil knows that they are adding to climate change.  
 
https://mavenroundtable.io/communityindependentjournal/politics/carbon-emissions-and-climate-change-exxon-knew-in-1982-Xpo8dkv4NEGNusbjsV9a4A/  
 
And yes, I watched your video links  
 
Marpet

I work outside and I coveralls and this heat is so dangerous. Sometimes it doesn’t matter what safety mitigation you do - we start work at 6am if we are outside, we have litres and litres of water available, we take numerous breaks, we do the heaviest manual labour first thing in the morning, etc. But the job still needs to get done and the employees are still at risk for heat exhaustion, heat stroke, etc. If we can run a truck with AC to sit in for breaks and not have someone have ill health effects then I will run that truck. The safety of my contractors/employees is important to me, environment comes second.

Call me crazy and maybe my head is buried in the sand but my thoughts are there was climate change long before we were even on the earth as a species and there will be climate change long after we're gone.  
 
Taxing us to death will do nothing to stop it, sorry to get off topic but when's the last time a "special" tax was used for it's stated purpose, everything gets lumped into general revenues to keep our system afloat.  
 
I read all these people talking about how all this carbon tax money will go toward wind farms and solar panels and "green" research that in reality causes just as much pollution as the alternative in one way or another, the reality is most of the money collected will go towards health care, infrastructure and social programs.  
 
It's inevitable because no one that's sane and in their right mind is willing to accept the true "fix" to extending our species time here and that's population control in one form or another.  
 
We as humans continue to expand at an exponential rate and take over more and more land area to survive, land that was once covered in plants and tree's that kept the ecosystem balanced and a perfect habitat for us.  
 
Again, maybe I'm crazy, meh

I was told years ago that the earth's axis is slowly moving.  
I agree with this.  
Why do surveyors have to yearly adjust true north on their equipment.  
Why is the ice flow in Antarctica expanding and thickening.  
Take a globe and hold it near a lamp, and draw a line from the lamp yo a position on the northern hemisphere, now tilt the top of the globe 1 -2 degrees towards the sun, see where that line hits now.  
Scientists will say the axis has moved.  
But the Al Gores and the David Suzukis of the world see it as opportunity to exploit and make millions.

But...it depends on the lay of the land...if it was hilly, it could certainly be uphill both ways. What isn't said is that it would be downhill both ways too.

I find it fascinating (though I will note, not entirely the rule) that various forms of climate denialism seem to be the realm of those mainly born pre-1980s. This is notable because the majority of these people more than likely will not see the worst effects of the climate crisis. It is everyone beyond this line in the sand who is going to suffer the most.  
 
As for those claiming to have been through a thang or 2 in their lifetime as an outdoor worker . . . we're even NOW, not in the same atmosphere. As the years tick on, the number of extremely hot and humid days is only going to go up, and we will have no choice but to account for this. Even if this way means adding more to the problem.  
 
Why must people be so myopic? At EVERY turn!  
 
Feel free to pull the r/iamsosmart retort. Wouldn't be the first time.  
 
Edited by Simonwalcal, 2019-07-19 16:40:05

Couldn't agree more

There are hundreds of causes that climate changes but to say it's just because of man is ludicrous and Pseudoscience.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. Yes, the Earth's axis wobbles. It's in part because it's lumpy, mountains, glaciers, isostatic rebound from the last Ice Age and stuff. The circulation of magma also plays a role. The magnetic poles also move around, and periodically reverse completely, again probably due to the circulation of magma and other interior forces.  
 
Climate change is actually intensifying the wobble from it's historic norms with the rapid changes in sea ice, glaciers and water levels that have been occurring in recent decades. Those surface structures account for about 1/3 of the influence of the wobble.

Let me put this out there . . .  
 
I don't care what the nature-based percentage of climate alteration is. We KNOW FOR A FACT that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has steadily risen in the era of harnessing fossil fuels. With other factors remaining relatively static throughout this time period, the culprit is rather obvious. Even if we're not the ONLY contributor, our share IS the majority share.  
 
More, not being the only factor is not an excuse to move away from mitigation.  
 
Other than those gullible folks that will fall for any string of theories a youtube personality will sell them, we KNOW where this all ends. Because it's not the first time.  
 
So, we can use that as our guide. Or we can, not. Consider it the ultimate gamble, with everything you know, love, and have ever known and loved as the collateral. The big difference being that the background circumstances are not entirely left to chance. I reiterate . . . this has all happened before.  
 
It is here, that we all sit. And it is now, that I will make my exit from this thread.  
 
Edited by Simonwalcal, 2019-07-19 16:59:41

I believe someone mentioned when it gets hot and humid they start removing clothes. That's actually the worst thing you can do. Not only does it expose your skin to UV ray's, it evaporates the sweat before it can cool the body. A thin layer of cotton. Once you sweat, it breaths, wind evaporates the sweat, cooling you. It is all about thermodynamics. Yes, you will feel cooler faster jumping into a vehicle with the A/C cranked, but it is a short term fix. Shade, water, and frequent breaks are how our farming, construction and outside manual working fathers (and mother's) and their fathers (and mothers) did it and survived. I'm pretty sure 30 deg C is as warm today as it was 70 years ago.

It was I that said about stripping off clothes, but it was because I was in an old tractor without ac. I once hung a thermometer in the cab and at times the temperature would be around 43 degrees Celsius, which is warm.  
I’ve spent a lot of years putting up hay, and in the past we had times that we had temperatures around 37-38 for maybe a week at a time, those temperature happen nowadays, but seldom do we see it day after day, August 2003 May of been one of the last times.