Discussions

Election

Grace1956
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610

Grace1956
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 610

Election
9/20/2021 at 5:11 PM

Well…….Do I start who will win?
happycamper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 585

happycamper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 585

election
9/20/2021 at 6:24 PM

best thing I heard was a leadership review for all parties...need new leaders for all of them....
PoodleLuvr
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 66

PoodleLuvr
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 66

PPC
9/20/2021 at 6:58 PM

People's Party of Canada!
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15660

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15660

Turnout
9/20/2021 at 7:30 PM

Impressive looking turnout at the Clarion location tonight. Looked to me like 50-100 lined up outside a half hour or so ago and even a few cars lined up on Victoria waiting to turn in. Looked like lots of cars at Keystone too.
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

Voted
9/20/2021 at 8:38 PM

at the Keystone Centre just after 4pm, and maybe waited 10 min at most. It was very well planned out from my experience there.
philly7475
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 26

philly7475
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 26

election
9/20/2021 at 8:40 PM

liberals hands down majority
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
9/20/2021 at 9:00 PM

Grace1956 said "Well…….Do I start who will win? "
No one, hung parliament
Iceman69
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475

Iceman69
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 475

...
9/20/2021 at 10:39 PM

Happy that Liberals didn't win majority!
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

It
9/20/2021 at 10:57 PM

also shows that Canada doesn't want Conservative control and their policies didn't sway any more voters.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

yes
9/20/2021 at 11:00 PM

Iceman69 said "Happy that Liberals didn't win majority! "
ne too!

Not happy that over six hundred million was spent of this election and Trudeau might pick up what? One, two or three more seats that two years ago? What a waste of money! Then CTV news talking about another election two years down the road?

Who thinks Jimmy Dhaliwal will still support Trudeau?
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

The Conservatives
9/20/2021 at 11:17 PM

also need to examine themselves, to get the Ontario vote they need to move further to the left. But the Conservatives further to the right may jump ship to the PPC and Maverick parties in the west. And in some ridings, the PPC did siphon votes from the Conservatives.

So do the Conservatives pander to Ontario and Quebec voters by moving left or to keep voters from jumping ship on the right? And even in this election the Conservatives mirrored many Liberal policies and it wasn't enough. Some seats were swapped, but no real change for the Conservatives.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

A failure for Canadians.
9/21/2021 at 12:07 AM

Another weak minority government with weak half hearted policies, only the people lose. Now we’ll be back to the ballot boxes in two years or maybe less and the debt load will increase.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2021-09-21 00:13:34
hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 831

hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 831

...
9/21/2021 at 1:07 AM

The way i see it, is a majority percentage of our country is ok with out of control spending and no concern about the long term ramifications, they've proven that over and over again.

But the reality of it is, most of us are in the same boat, we overspend past our limits, and over leverage our assets so we can buy toys and planned obsolescence e-waste on a daily, monthly, yearly basis so why would government be any different.

It's a slow progression, our generation may never see the true ramifications or maybe just catch the beginning of it as we near old age but its the next generation or two that are going to suffer.

We're all so divided over the petty things day to day while our long term financial over spending slowly catches up with us and no one gives a crap.

I'm not saying a CPC win would have magically fixed it, far from it, but generally speaking the conservative governments get the most public hate for making the hard cuts that the liberal party implements, and it goes in a viscous circle.

Stereotypically liberals get in and spend, spend, spend and the people are happy up until the bill comes due then they vote in a conservative government and they cut back schools, hospitals and welfare and they get dumped on as being anti education, anti healthcare or just plain grinches so we vote in a liberal government so we can get those programs running again.

I worry we will go the way of Venezuela in the near future and that makes me sad.

Edited by hutchster, 2021-09-21 01:10:04
Hashidoi
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78

Hashidoi
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78

Long Term Ramifications
9/21/2021 at 3:30 AM

If you want a real long term ramification, let's talk about the environment. This year there was a fire that wiped a whole town off the map, the wheat around here struggled to grow taller than my knees, and I lived a summer in a smoky haze the likes of which I had never experienced before. Not to mention precipitation, or the lack thereof. Unlike money, which would vanish alongside humans if humans disappeared, there'll still be a tangible impact on the Earth from our species for centuries to come.

But the real cost of things is a hard sell, I know. So lets go back to the economy.

Money is just a thing people have made up to make the world work. We just all agree to abide by it because it's convenient and easy. Once upon a time, national wealth was actually measured in things like gold, but we stopped doing that, and eventually our current scheme will probably also be supplanted or replaced. Its why, generally, I find 'the economy' to be the least compelling factor when it comes to choosing a political stance. Because as long as we're here to talk about this, there is always going to be a state debt in some form or another.

Debt on the national/international level isn't like balancing a household budget, and I think that this is a thing people often get confused about or hung up on. The majority of Canada's national debt is actually owed back to Canada, and we actually have the lowest percentage of foreign-owned debt in the G7. Moreover, debt owed between states actually helps play a role in (relative) global stability and international relations. It is okay and normal to be in debt on the national/international level, and Canada is not some weird outlier spiraling out of control or anything.

Also, I'm thrilled that it's a minority government. I mean, I know the dangers of non-confidence and whatnot. But I like the idea of a government that has to compromise with itself and justify its agenda, rather than just ramming legislation through all roughshod.

Lastly, the more pronounced fracture of the right was an interesting development. It certainly helped the left with this election, but moving forward, I think it would be a mistake for the CPC to try and focus on re/uniting with this extremist right versus courting more of the moderate/center back from the Liberals. Bernier and his ilk are toxic, and it would be best for the CPC to try and take a bite out of the less poisonous part of the political spectrum.
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8816

Clark, Mulroney and Harper
9/21/2021 at 5:17 AM

Never brought down the debt, infact they all increased it. Chretien and Martin reduced the debt a fair bit till Harper came and increased the debt by $150 billion. Harper was also handed a $13 billion surplus and turned it into a deficit. Ya, Harper balanced for a couple years, but the rest of the time he didn't.

So when has the brilliant Conservative financial prowess ever worked?
T-Bee
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 31

T-Bee
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 31

Wasteful and selfish
9/21/2021 at 6:53 AM

The results of the election proves this election was such a waste.

Instead of initiating an election and stating all the things the Liberals will do if they get re-elected, JT could have just kept on trucking as PM and persued this election's promises without having to campaign.

As someone who has always felt more comfortable voting liberal at the federal level, I just couldn't do it this time. JT and his troupe has had me frustrated and embarrassed the last couple years.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

.
9/21/2021 at 7:22 AM

Trevor B said "Never brought down the debt, infact they all increased it. Chretien and Martin reduced the debt a fair bit till Harper came and increased the debt by $150 billion. Harper was also handed a $13 billion surplus and turned it into a deficit. Ya, Harper balanced for a couple years, but the rest of the time he didn't.

So when has the brilliant Conservative financial prowess ever worked? "
Old outdated argument of yours Trevor that you already lost in one of the previous threads.
Everyone knows it’s incorrect hence the political stale mate that we find ourselves in now.
All this election has delivered is a while longer of nothing getting achieved and a stagnating economy with a poor investment environment.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

results
9/21/2021 at 8:09 AM

Trevor B said "also shows that Canada doesn't want Conservative control and their policies didn't sway any more voters. "
also showed that canadians didn't want Trudeau to score a majority, again.
Not to worry, as per Sandy Renaldo, Trudeau said he wants another election in 18 months, not even two years time, 18 months!
hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 831

hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 831

...
9/21/2021 at 8:51 AM

Anyone else run into an issue where they type out a nice long response, take the time to fact check things and hit submit and it gives an sql error and you lose it all ?

Whatever, life goes on
Brandon,Brandon
Joined: This month
Posts: 42

Brandon,Brandon
Joined: This month
Posts: 42

No changes needed
9/21/2021 at 9:05 AM

Trevor B said "also need to examine themselves, to get the Ontario vote they need to move further to the left. But the Conservatives further to the right may jump ship to the PPC and Maverick parties in the west. And in some ridings, the PPC did siphon votes from the Conservatives.

So do the Conservatives pander to Ontario and Quebec voters by moving left or to keep voters from jumping ship on the right? And even in this election the Conservatives mirrored many Liberal policies and it wasn't enough. Some seats were swapped, but no real change for the Conservatives. "
The left keeps preaching this “more progressive” but its a moving target. O’Toole is already considered a Liberal light. His centrist policies is why people went for the PPC. The PPC split a few ridings… not saying O’Toole would have gotten a minority but I’m sure JT would have lost seats. The issue is with central Ontario and Quebec failing to see the failure JT is, while also electing crappy Conservative leaders, and finally people buying in that voting for PPC will change anything other than splitting the right for JT.
Brandon,Brandon
Joined: This month
Posts: 42

Brandon,Brandon
Joined: This month
Posts: 42

..
9/21/2021 at 9:12 AM

Trevor B said "Never brought down the debt, infact they all increased it. Chretien and Martin reduced the debt a fair bit till Harper came and increased the debt by $150 billion. Harper was also handed a $13 billion surplus and turned it into a deficit. Ya, Harper balanced for a couple years, but the rest of the time he didn't.

So when has the brilliant Conservative financial prowess ever worked? "
The left likes to pretend the Great Recession never happened. The reason you think it was an insignificant event was because of how the CPC handled the situation. We faired way better than the US, Greece, etc…basically the entire rest of the world. Harper had to use federal dollars to stimulate the Canadian economy…. Kind of like the 600 billion+ the Trudeau has helicoptered across Canada these last couple of years.
Simonwalcal
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 813

Simonwalcal
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 813

...
9/21/2021 at 9:34 AM

I think it was more that Canada never made the idiotic deregulatory decisions that drove that house of cards into the ground. But I don't doubt that the CPC had to handle some situations arising from that. Much like Trudeau and Covid 19.
PitCrew
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 29

PitCrew
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 29

debt
9/21/2021 at 10:00 AM

Trevor B said "Never brought down the debt, infact they all increased it. Chretien and Martin reduced the debt a fair bit till Harper came and increased the debt by $150 billion. Harper was also handed a $13 billion surplus and turned it into a deficit. Ya, Harper balanced for a couple years, but the rest of the time he didn't.

So when has the brilliant Conservative financial prowess ever worked? "
so your telling us that the total debt we are in now which is in the trillions is better then the conservatives controlled debt?? Chretien, Martin and now Little Fidel are all traitors to this country. And anyone that believes in the liberals are no better, you should be ashamed of yourselves for voting them back in. How can you look at our elderly, our military vets, and indigenous peoples knowing full well they are the ones that are left out to dry. Pathetic to think we live in a country that some of you people can turn your backs on the vulnerable!! And explain to your kids that they will never see a debt free Canada!
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15660

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15660

Election
9/21/2021 at 10:53 AM

Just my opinion as a dude and not site admin of course.
Worst thing about it all is that the past several weeks seem to have had some effect of hardening USA-style divisions that have been creeping into our politics. More fighting, more trying to see people through more rigid left/right lenses and more dehumanizing of the other "side." Doesn't help that we have a fringe party pulling at those threads and getting a few percent of the vote while at it.

I don't think a Liberal minority gov will be as bad as some self-identifying as being on the especially right side of the fence would like to make it out to be. Level of respect for how, for example, they've been able to walk a fine line between environmental concerns and our economic reliance on the energy industry and hope they continue to find a way to make that work. Folks with strong opinions on either issue probably aren't purely satisfied, but there's a needle to be threaded there with the checks and balances that come with it being a minority gov. We'll see how paying for Covid works out post-pandemic. Suspect there will be some changes I or my wallet won't like personally and suspect its going to be an issue in many other countries outside of our borders too. Thinking that govs in place when those chickens truly come home to roost are gonna have a tough go.

Even though a lack of any kind of competition in this riding hurts our chances of getting the kinds of carrots that swing ridings in other parts of the country get, Larry M has overall IMO been a good rep for the area. I've found him to be good to communicate with when I have a question or concern and expect it'll be more of the same for this next term. I don't think a Conservative gov under the platform as presented would've been as bad as those on the pure left were envisioning. I overall had a level of respect for the Conservatives running a campaign of keeping the party a little closer to the centre than some of the more vocal forces in the country and world would like to pull it. Sincerely hope that they stick to building that out and clarifying areas where there's been uncertainty in the interest of competitive elections and in the interest of continuing to give guys like me who might break one way or the other in any given election a choice. IMO a pure hard-right USA Republican-style party isn't electable in this country and it wouldn't be good for our democracy to have elections that aren't competitive.

Here's to a little constructive debate, priority on fact and rational thinking, a little give and take, a little understanding that we can disagree or hold different world views without hating and overall a little less personal division over the next (18? 24?) months... a guy can hope can't he?
mikestang
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 457

mikestang
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 457

No Trump style party in Canada.
9/21/2021 at 11:34 AM

I believe that the media has focused on the far right nuts that follow the PPC to make the party look more radical than it is.
I believe the values that the PPC stand for are almost exactly the same as the Cons of 10 to 20 years ago.
A Conservative in Canada is no where near as right leaning as a Republican. Closer to Democrats. The Liberals and NDP are now further left than the Dems. IMO.
Now that the PPC has gained popularity, the Cons may not get elected again for several elections as the vote will continue to be split.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15660

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15660

PPC
9/21/2021 at 11:44 AM

mikestang said "I believe that the media has focused on the far right nuts that follow the PPC to make the party look more radical than it is.
I believe the values that the PPC stand for are almost exactly the same as the Cons of 10 to 20 years ago.
A Conservative in Canada is no where near as right leaning as a Republican. Closer to Democrats. The Liberals and NDP are now further left than the Dems. IMO.
Now that the PPC has gained popularity, the Cons may not get elected again for several elections as the vote will continue to be split. "
USA-style media boogeymanism when media informs others factually of goings-on that don’t flatter.

Did their leader in fact end up getting arrested for violating public health orders signed off on by informed medical professionals and in place to protect lives in this province as described in this story?
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6062801

Sure did, and thats the kind of stuff that I guess will attract a certain kind of voter but makes that kind of party not electable when the vast majority of Manitobans and Canadians understand the need for such health orders and the serious threat the pandemic has had and continues to have on our medical system and population if left unchecked.
hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 831

hutchster
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 831

...
9/21/2021 at 11:49 AM

When one political party bribes our national media conglomerates to the tune of nearly $700 million dollars and the other party opposes it, how can we ever expect to have fair and balanced news media going forward ?
delpmb
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 713

delpmb
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 713

the problem with elections/etc
9/21/2021 at 2:25 PM

is I think, we get caught up with what team we belong to We don't listen to the message. we are to busy rooting for our guy because well he's our guy. Loyalty to your team. Maybe one of the other guys has an idea, we're hearing it but we aren listening to it, it may be a good idea. we should give it a try one time.
I'm not a Conservative but O'Toole sounded like he could be a really good leader one day, first time he grabbed my attention the whole campaign was his rally to the troops after the election. He was talking to the Canadian people and not just his supportersI.i am not a Conservative but who knows maybe one day I could be,
No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 723

No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 723

$600 Million
9/21/2021 at 2:37 PM

down the drain on a moot election.
Nice.
No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 723

No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 723

very true
9/21/2021 at 2:38 PM

hutchster said "When one political party bribes our national media conglomerates to the tune of nearly $700 million dollars and the other party opposes it, how can we ever expect to have fair and balanced news media going forward ? "
How can you trust such a said party?