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O'Toole ousted

Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
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Trevor B
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8755

O'Toole ousted
Feb 3 at 6:17 AM

Looks like O'Toole is no longer leader. Manitoba MP Candice Bergen is interm leader. Many didn't like that he was moving the party more centre.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/otoole-leadership-vote-1.6336336
TheBrofessor
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 97

TheBrofessor
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 97

??
Feb 3 at 8:50 AM

"O'Toole has time and again betrayed the party's socially conservative base with his support for abortion, LGBT ideology, oppressive lockdowns, and liberty-destroying passports for abortion-tainted vaccines," said Jeff Gunnarson, the president of the Campaign Life Coalition. "It's about time this fake conservative was given the boot."

Abortion-tainted vaccines?? That's what true conservatives should believe??

Edited by TheBrofessor, 2022-02-03 08:55:42
Millenial
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 189

Millenial
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 189

Well,
Feb 3 at 8:53 AM

It looks like the CPC is going to have to decide who they want to appeal to (though through this vote it seems like they've made their decision). Are they going to try and appeal to voters from both sides, or are they just going to alienate the left and fight tooth and nail to appeal to the ever-growing group of people tip-toeing further and further to the right?

Can't say that I'm looking forward to seeing how politics in this country change for the worse.
philly7475
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 23

philly7475
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 23

o'toole ousted
Feb 3 at 10:05 AM

looks like pc have to start looking for a younger leader that can give liberals a race for pm
JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 705

JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 705

Originally
Feb 3 at 10:07 AM

I was not a fan of O'Toole, but given some of the most likely candidates to replace him, I would have voted to keep him. Politics will surely get worse from here if the PC party wants to get a leader who supports the far right fanaticism that too many are embracing.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1619

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1619

Well
Feb 3 at 10:53 AM

philly7475 said "looks like pc have to start looking for a younger leader that can give liberals a race for pm "
I’m afraid the conservative party screwed up there then because Erin O’Toole is younger than liberal Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Honestly though I don’t believe age has much to do with it. In general we need politicians that are more credible in the eyes of the electorate as people are disenfranchised with politics. We need to get a handle on and prevent the spread of misinformation and politicians of all persuasions need to quit bickering amongst themselves, stop their party infighting and get on with the job of government .

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-02-03 10:58:11
withallduerespect
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 146

withallduerespect
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 146

I don't know who to vote for anymore
Feb 3 at 11:07 AM

Lifelong Conservative, based mostly on their fiscal track record vs the Liberal fiscal irresponsibility and corruption. Now their policy decisions and archaic views make it impossible for me to support them, but I still think the Liberals are mostly crooks and way too Quebec focused. NDP are not relevant. Just going to watch from now on.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
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Adam
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Job
Feb 3 at 11:20 AM

Toughest job in the country? Just look at those splits within the party on whether or not have a lot in common with protesters. Big challenge to keep united with PPC chipping away at the more extreme-right side of the spectrum and at the same time wanting to do it in a way thats electable on a national scale.

Pandemic frustration may be running high, but more don’t side with the so-called “Freedom Convoy”

NEW @abacusdataca poll:https://t.co/tIKVdToGaz…#cdnpoli #FreedomConvoy2022 pic.twitter.com/gzT6yhRKE9
— David Coletto (@DavidColetto) February 3, 2022
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Luckily
Feb 3 at 5:32 PM

as the interim leader, Candice can't run for leadership. But it seems the CPC wants' to go even further to the right to keep voters who might vote Maverick or PPC. Many didn't like O'Toole because he wasn't far-right enough. So many want conservative poster boy Pierre Poilievre to be leader because they think he will support far-right ideals. So if the CPC wants the the liberal votes to win an election, moving further to the right isn't going to do that.
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
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Trevor B
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Pierre
Feb 3 at 6:26 PM

actually has an Elections Canada Compliance Agreement against him. On numerous occasions under the Harper government in his ministerial role, turned government funding into partisan funding by promoting the CPC instead of Government of Canada. And these were done prior to Federal elections.

https://www.cef-cce.ca/content.asp?section=agr&dir=ca&document=jul0417&lang=e
Exhausted
Joined: Nov 2010
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Exhausted
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1630

Conservatives digging a hole
Feb 5 at 3:54 AM

A hole so big and deep they might not find a way out.

Their party is so split into so many groups.

Bergen is making it worse. I didn’t think o’toole was a leader to wishy washy.

So thankful Bergen can’t run as the permanent leader. But the 18 months till then she can do a lot of damage.

Even the possible leader candidates are out there taking pictures saying they support the protesters. Then see the pictures and realize they are standing in front of upside Canadian flag or something else worse and then try to talk their way out of it.

Conservative party don’t seem to realize and take responsibility for that the problem wasn’t just O’Toole. It goes way beyond that. Problems are numerous and the divisions are deep.

It will take a long time and a very strong leader to pull party together.

I don’t really see any strong leaders on potentials right now. And with a minority government they don’t have time either.

Sometimes the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

I am not one party or the other.

Say what you want about Justin Trudeau but he had “it” that made himself a strong leader no doubt about it.

Conservatives need that a strong leader with “it”.
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Basically
Feb 5 at 6:08 PM

Conservatives west of Ontario want someone who will support trump ideologies, have strict conservative social ideals, have conservative religious ideals and crazier the better. So since Candice is not eligible, they will look for someone just are crazy or crazier.
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
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Farmergeorge
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Trevor
Feb 5 at 6:26 PM

Trevor B said "Conservatives west of Ontario want someone who will support trump ideologies, have strict conservative social ideals, have conservative religious ideals and crazier the better. So since Candice is not eligible, they will look for someone just are crazy or crazier. "
Not all conservatives in fact most don’t hold those beliefs and ideals as you mentioned, most would be closer to centre than you care to realize and most certainly don’t support these recent protests or the idea of splitting Canada. I really wish that you would stop this partisan hatred and tame your vitriol . I can’t understand how it is that Adam allows you to continue in this divisive manner.
JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
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JessieJay
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Unfortunately
Feb 5 at 7:11 PM

Trevor is right to some extent. I don't know if it is a majority west of Ontario who want a trumpy type leader, but definitely there are those who do. I can name off quite a number of western Canadians who think trump is just the ticket and wish that he were Canada's PM. I hope there is not a majority that want that type of leader, or if so then I hope that eastern Canada continues to avoid voting conservative.
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Posts: 8755

You
Feb 5 at 7:38 PM

Farmergeorge said "Not all conservatives in fact most don’t hold those beliefs and ideals as you mentioned, most would be closer to centre than you care to realize and most certainly don’t support these recent protests or the idea of splitting Canada. I really wish that you would stop this partisan hatred and tame your vitriol . I can’t understand how it is that Adam allows you to continue in this divisive manner. "
haven't seen my Facebook feed! Sadly many family and friends who are conservative believe exactly what I posted. This is what I see daily. I have had to unfriend or mute many of them.

Do you think all of those protesters in Ottawa or those in the convoy in Brandon are close to centre? Heck no!!! They got rid of O'Toole because he was closer to centre than they like. The conservatism you think exists doesn't anymore, especially in Western Canada. Maybe in Ontario they might be closer to centre. But they will likely go Liberal. This is why Conservatives have lost 3 elections in a row!!
Adam

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Adam
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Jury
Feb 5 at 7:54 PM

I think you guys are talking about two different things. One being what the composition of the convoy is and one being how Conservatives view the convoy. I'd say jury's out on the latter and that too much blanket assuming on all is only going to send us further down the polarization path. Poll above had nearly a 50/50 split on the convoy amongst conservatives. The most overwhelming support was from Peoples Party types.

Doug Ford went as far as saying time has come for it to end. This Conservative Harper-appointed Senator quit caucus based on lack of condemnation from some colleagues:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8595943/nunavut-senator-dennis-patterson-conservative-caucus-ottawa/amp/

I have no doubt there's a lot of soul searching going on right now. Of course when in the middle of this the federal party picks who they did for interim leader they're making a certain kind of statement. It'll be interesting to see where things go, but as an independent type that would not under any circumstance vote for a far-right kind of party a small part of me still holds out hope that there'll be a more traditional Conservative party to at least consider next election.

What the poll doesn't have is a regional breakdown, which might tell more of the story...

Edited by Adam, 2022-02-05 20:11:00
Farmergeorge
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Farmergeorge
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.
Feb 5 at 8:02 PM

Trevor B said "haven't seen my Facebook feed! Sadly many family and friends who are conservative believe exactly what I posted. This is what I see daily. I have had to unfriend or mute many of them.

Do you think all of those protesters in Ottawa or those in the convoy in Brandon are close to centre? Heck no!!! They got rid of O'Toole because he was closer to centre than they like. The conservatism you think exists doesn't anymore, especially in Western Canada. Maybe in Ontario they might be closer to centre. But they will likely go Liberal. This is why Conservatives have lost 3 elections in a row!! "
These are categorically NOT the beliefs of someone that is truly traditionally conservative .
Conservatism is encompassing but does not extend to any extreme.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-02-05 20:06:49
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Feb 5 at 8:07 PM

Farmergeorge said "These are categorically NOT the beliefs of someone that is truly traditionally conservative .
Conservatism is encompassing but does not extend to any extreme.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-02-05 20:06:49"
This is the reality of the current Conservative Party of Canada. This is no longer the Progressive Conservatives of the years past. The conservative you are thinking of are not the ones who exist today.

Edited by Trevor B, 2022-02-05 20:08:57
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Yes
Feb 5 at 8:09 PM

JessieJay said "Trevor is right to some extent. I don't know if it is a majority west of Ontario who want a trumpy type leader, but definitely there are those who do. I can name off quite a number of western Canadians who think trump is just the ticket and wish that he were Canada's PM. I hope there is not a majority that want that type of leader, or if so then I hope that eastern Canada continues to avoid voting conservative. "
my Facebook feed during the trump years was filled with yearning for trump to be Prime Minister here instead of Trudeau. There is much love for MAGA and trump. There is so much love for the American GOP political system to be done here.

The PPC and Maverick parties basically try to mirror trump policies. And this is what the CPC is afraid of, they don't want to lose support to PPC or Maverick, hence moving the CPC more to the right. They just installed a self professed MAGA supporter as interim leader. Just have to read any of the Wexit, National Post, Maverick Facebook pages to see the direction many conservatives want to see the direction Canada go. Only a few Conservative MP's voted to support the ban on Conversion Therapy. A therapy

And since the Conservatives have pretty much all the seats in MB, SK and AB locked up, they need to get more seats in Ontario. And for the most part those in Western Canada do have a hate on for Eastern Canada and think Eastern Canada has too much power, alienating those voters in Ontario.

This is the reality of the current Conservative Party of Canada. This is no longer the Progressive Conservatives of the years past.
Trevor B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 8755

Trevor B
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Posts: 8755

Ya,
Feb 5 at 8:36 PM

Adam said "
I think you guys are talking about two different things. One being what the composition of the convoy is and one being how Conservatives view the convoy. I'd say jury's out on the latter and that too much blanket assuming on all is only going to send us further down the polarization path. Poll above had nearly a 50/50 split on the convoy amongst conservatives. The most overwhelming support was from Peoples Party types.

Doug Ford went as far as saying time has come for it to end. This Conservative Harper-appointed Senator quit caucus based on lack of condemnation from some colleagues:
https://globalnews.ca/news/8595943/nunavut-senator-dennis-patterson-conservative-caucus-ottawa/amp/

I have no doubt there's a lot of soul searching going on right now. Of course when in the middle of this the federal party picks who they did for interim leader they're making a certain kind of statement. It'll be interesting to see where things go, but as an independent type that would not under any circumstance vote for a far-right kind of party a small part of me still holds out hope that there'll be a more traditional Conservative party to at least consider next election.

What the poll doesn't have is a regional breakdown, which might tell more of the story...

Edited by Adam, 2022-02-05 20:11:00
"
sadly the conservatives of yesteryear are becoming extinct. The Progressive Conservatives are all but a memory now after the Reform and Canadian Alliance mergers. And the PPC is the CPC's biggest threat for losing members to. So to keep voters from going to the PPC, there is only one direction the CPC can go. Right now I can't see a more centre-right Conservative party forming and having any success.

When you looked at the last CPC leadership race, you pretty much saw all one type of conservative. Anyone who was more to the centre like Aaron Seal was quickly made to dropout due to the CPC leadership requirements. Peter McKay was likely the one who was the most to the centre, not by much though. This next leadership race is really going to be view into the direction they are going. They got rid of O'Toole because he was considered too far to the centre and that was the same feeling by many family and friends. And like I said in an above post, today's conservatives are more of the social conservative and religious conservative than fiscal and small government. Thought they still use fiscal and small government as a talking point.

And my views on the Conservatives come from what I see from family and friends on Facebook. The reality is, conservatives keep moving more to the right following the Republicans.
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Washington Post article
Feb 5 at 9:20 PM

Just found this article and it pretty much echos my thinking. They see the CPC going further right chasing that far right voter.

Their thoughts of how to get the CPC more to the centre is to let those who closely follow the PPC go. Stop trying to attract those conservatives and basically go more for the moderate conservatives who are in Eastern Canada and get back to the more fiscal and small government conservative like the old PC party. Will it happen, time will tell. Maybe they need to lose for the fourth time before it clicks that they are not on a winning path

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/03/erin-otoole-canada-conservatives-truckers-ottawa-sanity/
No Comment
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 702

No Comment
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Posts: 702

I agree
Feb 5 at 9:30 PM

Farmergeorge said "
Not all conservatives in fact most don’t hold those beliefs and ideals as you mentioned, most would be closer to centre than you care to realize and most certainly don’t support these recent protests or the idea of splitting Canada. I really wish that you would stop this partisan hatred and tame your vitriol . I can’t understand how it is that Adam allows you to continue in this divisive manner.
"
with this comment. Judgment on far right vs. far left.
Not at all true. Too much black and white in these statements when it's much wider than that response of Trevors. I would never lump Right Conservatives of the "west" in with Repulicans. Keep the talk in Canada.

Edited by No Comment, 2022-02-05 21:32:16
fargobob

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fargobob
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Trevor, where do you get your information?
Feb 5 at 10:29 PM

Trevor B said "
Conservatives west of Ontario want someone who will support trump ideologies, have strict conservative social ideals, have conservative religious ideals and crazier the better. So since Candice is not eligible, they will look for someone just are crazy or crazier.
"
You are painting a rather large percentage of the people in western Canada as a bunch of crazies looking for an equally crazy leader. If you really believe this you haven't done your homework.

As with any party there are some members that are on the fringes of hard right or left, but what you are describing is certainly not the way a lot of Conservatives think.
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Really?
Feb 5 at 11:04 PM

Prove it!!! Show me how regular conservatives are going stop this fringe minority from moving the Conservative Party more right. What leader should be selected that will bring the CPC back closer to what the Progressive Conservatives were. Out of all MP's they could of selected, they picked MAGA loving Candice Bergen for intrim leader!!! The party leadership has been cowing to that fringe MAGA crowd.

The CPC should do what the Washington Post suggested, cut ties with the fringe minority and move back towards the centre where the rest of the country is. If that fringe is really as small as you say, it shouldn't have a big impact.

We need a working Opposition and political parties that will at least work with each other again without being polar opposites. And get voters to respect that in a democracy your party isn't always going to be in power. While I didn't 100% approve of Harper, I still respected he was the PM. I even defended him on here multiple times. Heck I even voted Conservative because I didn't like Ignatliff.
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Maybe it's
Feb 5 at 11:34 PM

time for the old fashion conservatives to find your voices and start making noise so this very vocal fringe minority is drowned out and has no power. Take back your Conservative party!! Otherwise it will continue making that right turn. Right now all we ever hear is that fringe and how everything is fake news, unless it comes from conservative media.

We all know Trudeau or any Prime Minister isn't going to turn Canada into a communist socialism dictatorship. Which by the way are 3 totally different forms of government. Harper was the one who signed the 33 year deal with China where we were on the losing side of the deal. And now because of that deal we have to deal with China more and there is nothing Trudeau can do about it.
Abbysmum
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Abbysmum
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Unholy alliance
Feb 5 at 11:34 PM

Trevor B said "Just found this article and it pretty much echos my thinking. They see the CPC going further right chasing that far right voter.

Their thoughts of how to get the CPC more to the centre is to let those who closely follow the PPC go. Stop trying to attract those conservatives and basically go more for the moderate conservatives who are in Eastern Canada and get back to the more fiscal and small government conservative like the old PC party. Will it happen, time will tell. Maybe they need to lose for the fourth time before it clicks that they are not on a winning path

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/03/erin-otoole-canada-conservatives-truckers-ottawa-sanity/ "
This is probably the most sensible solution. Let the far right go and maybe salvage a remnant centre.

I want to remind those who defend Conservatives and specifically western Conservatives as not falling into that MAGA-type that the current Conservative Party of Canada is comprised of not only the more moderate PC of yesteryear, but also a majority portion of Reform/Alliance. In case you hadn't realized, it basically started as a very-right-leaning party that found success in the West but not Ontario & Quebec where you need to win to form government.

To suggest that the majority of very-right-leaning to far-right conservatives don't originate from the West is forgetting history. It's historically where it has come from in my lifetime.
Trevor B

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Trevor B
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Yes
Feb 5 at 11:53 PM

The Reform Party was Western Canada populus protest party. The Reform Party was created because of Western Canada's distrust of the Progressive Conservatives.

The big part of the Reform Party was the social conservatism and Christian right. Like I also stated above after the Reform/Canadian Alliance merger with the Progressive Conservatives the Reform part took over and the PC part disappeared. The act that removed O'Toole was the Reform Act.

This Reform part is the dominate decider in the current CPC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Party_of_Canada?wprov=sfla1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Conservative_Party_of_Canada?wprov=sfla1
Farmergeorge
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Farmergeorge
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Posts: 1619

Oh dear!
Feb 6 at 1:23 AM

Trevor B said "time for the old fashion conservatives to find your voices and start making noise so this very vocal fringe minority is drowned out and has no power. Take back your Conservative party!! Otherwise it will continue making that right turn. Right now all we ever hear is that fringe and how everything is fake news, unless it comes from conservative media.

We all know Trudeau or any Prime Minister isn't going to turn Canada into a communist socialism dictatorship. Which by the way are 3 totally different forms of government. Harper was the one who signed the 33 year deal with China where we were on the losing side of the deal. And now because of that deal we have to deal with China more and there is nothing Trudeau can do about it. "
Trevor your understanding is limited.
Communism in its intended form is a hard left extreme interpretation of socialism.
Most communist regimes are or were dictatorships without the free and fair elections that we enjoy here in Canada.
You are right , Justin Trudeau isn’t going to turn Canada into a communist socialist dictatorship.
Unfortunately you fail to understand that extremism in any direction left or right is harmful. For you to paint all conservatives as hard right is as untrue as saying that all liberals are hard left socialists. In reality both the mainstream conservative and liberal parties and the majority of their supporters are only slightly right or left of centre respectively and not that much different at all. It is well known that a relatively small swing by the electorate off centre can generate a majority and decides a general election result either way and this is what each party strives to achieve in order to form a government.
Your misinterpretation is harmful and affords a voice to extremism of all types and that’s a very real problem and indeed a risk.

Edited by Farmergeorge, 2022-02-06 01:29:07
Adam

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Adam
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Poilievre
Feb 6 at 8:15 AM

Pierre Poilievre the first to announce running for Conservative leader. Seeing a lot of enthusiasm especially amongst folks I’d expect to be most likely to retweet some combo of Theo Fleury/Pedersen/Carlson/Cherry/Trump. To me this is an example of who O’Toole warned about as someone that even if generates very high enthusiasm amongst a portion of the party base would have electability challenges in more moderate areas they need to make progress in to form government. Skilled communicator who I imagine would be effective at stopping any bleed out of votes to PPC though….

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6341335
https://twitter.com/pierrepoilievre/status/1490115382157398030?s=21
Adam

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Adam
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Phantom truck tax
Apr 21 at 6:39 AM

An example of the way Poiliviere is campaigning as per link below. Flames fanned over a “truck tax” that doesn’t exist sure got people fired up over something that it sounds like there are no plans for.

It’s easy for a good orator to get a base angry over topics that play to their emotional hot buttons, but I think Canada is better than in large numbers falling into the USA-hard-right style divisiveness of these kinds of storms. As much as Alberta’s and Sask’s Premiers helped echo it, it’s been encouraging to see other Conservatives speak out against this general way of doing business over the last few weeks... this sort of thing really doesn't need to fall on party lines:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/conservative-truck-tax-budget-climate-guilbeault-1.6423519