Discussions

This morning at approximately 8:25am, the panhandler at Kirkcaldy & 18th walked over to the Hydro box and urinated. Do any of the candidates running for council have any intentions to try to curb this panhandling activity?

How many beggers do we need at corral center before police start slapping loitering tickets on them ?  
 
I really don't want to hear how times are tough and people have other problems. Almost every business is looking for employees. I'm sure they have some sort of skill.  
 
I guess it will take a pedestrian/bigger vs vehicle accident to get some people to notice.  
 
It's quite the look it gives our city when 3-4 intersections at corral all have beggars looking for handouts.  
 
Winter can't come soon enough to force these beggars inside

Is this the most important issue facing society, that people often need to urinate? Instead of suggesting that we issue fines, how about somebody offer them some shelter or a decent job to go to if they are even capable. When I see people out on the street begging for money, or food, or some kind of job, I would think that they are not out there by choice, and that them being out there is a failure of society, including our mental health system. It amazes me how shortsighted we can be as a society, when we have clearly failed to address a situation that just seems to be getting worse with a society that has gone through 3 years of COVID and financial devastation, and then to drive by and think that the most unfortunate among us have no right to occupy space. This is NOT an issue that should be dealt with by police. It IS an issue that should be dealt with by a government that just does not seem capable of providing adequate health care, including mental health services and social services, to those most in need.

I don't think any questions that everyone urinates. The point is, don't do it in public when people are driving their kids to school. The City does offer assistance to people that are down and out: Samaritan House, Warm and Safe Shelter, Blue Door and welfare. Many of these people have taken this on as their "job". Five years ago, there were no panhandlers at the lights. Now there are several at the Corral Centre as well as on 18th by the Shoppers Mall.

So the real issue here is not that you do not want to see poverty or mental health issues in your community, it's that you don't want to see people urinating. In that case, I have a simple and cost effective solution. The city can erect some privacy fence and some signage in strategic locations, indicating that anyone who needs to urinate may do so behind the privacy fence, so that nobody else is bothered by the sight of them urinating. As an added bonus, it's probably safer than urinating on Manitoba Hydro equipment.

I have no issues with the pan handlers. Most of them seem respectful and are not pushy. I see some clean up after themselves and some do not. Would be nice if they all clean up after themselves. There is one gentleman that lays on the boulevard and he had his arm out and I was stopped by him and looked at him to make sure I did not hit his arm and he just started yelling and stood up and started to freak out. That is the only freaky incident that I had. I will sometimes give them gift cards for food

Maybe something like this would be a solution.  
 
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/vancouver-architect-proud-of-his-public-pissoir-1.431878

I agree with usualstuff. I think its highly inappropriate to urinate in public. We drive that route daily in our commute and I don't think my kids, nor anyone else' kids need to see that.  
 
There are a handful of resources available to those in need like usualstuff has mentioned, I think placing the blame solely on the "government" seems a little far fetched.  
 
From experience with my kiddos trying to bring food to one of them from DQ, was told "i only take money" and another one told a friend of mine that "I only take bills and not change" kind of changed my mind on everything.  
 
Its super awkward when your just trying to drive, and you have to stop at the red light with them staring at you.

There is only one panhandler that I dont mind, and he is a usual, the gentleman with the dreadlocks. He just stands there minding his business, no sign, no waving people down. I have spoken to him a few times and very nice.  
 
All these new ones though, different story! There are two new women, dressed well, look well appearance wise, but according to their signs, hungry. They look to be about my age, and ahould be looking for a job instead.  
 
There was another new one in the Corral Center, and at the Shoppers Mall, that were dressed well and looked well appearance wise, but BOTH their signs said the exact same thing. Have 3 kids at home and hungry. They can look for a job as well (again, look like my age). I also did not trust that they were on opposite sides of the city with a sign saying the exact same thing.

They will always be there as long as people keep giving out money. Stop giving out money and they will go away. Some panhandlers are people down on their luck, poor life choices or limited opportunities. There are community resources to help these people though some may choose to refuse any help. Some are there simply because they can get cash where they need it or not. Most I suspect can work but why work when people hand you money for free.

Having grown up in Brandon and spending over 30 years in social services, mental health and addictions I would like to say that "Out of sight out of mind" is still high on the ebrandon self righteous posters.  
 
You know what really annoys me...the ebrandon self righteous posters...  
 
I would like to add that I wrote a paper on the homeless - and youth, adults work the equivalent of 2 full time jobs every day to survive. You don't have to give them money, watch them pee, just turn a blind eye. That's what these posters really want, all of the people they don't LIKE TO SEE to go away. It really is terrible when the shopping experience of the more privileged is ruined....sheesh.

I was going to say the same thing. They will continue to stand out there asking for money as long as people keep giving it to them. Just today I saw someone give the young man standing at the lights at the corral center $20. Didn’t have to work for it, just stand there, free money. Why would they go look for a job when they can stand at a corner and get free money???  
I don’t think the police can do much, it’s not illegal to stand at a light.  
 
Edited by Summertime, 2022-09-08 20:17:45

Before getting on here and complaining about the panhandlers you should educate yourselves. Just about all of them are not employable as they have social and mental issues.  
If you don't want to give them anything , then don't , but don't put them down for what they do, you could just as easily be there yourself some day....

Wow how quickly we forget about the panhandler that took the autistic boy and gave him shelter and some food. Not all that long ago.

I don’t feel anyone here is being self-righteous. We all take pride in our surroundings. No one wants to see a human being so lost as to have to resort to panhandling. Society doesn’t yet have a solution for how to help these people help themselves. There are community resources in place but obviously it is not enough. But feeding into their addictions by giving them free money which they then spend on gambling and/or drugs is not the answer. I do not know what is.

I can’t imagine many people who would choose to panhandle over a consistent paycheque, if they had the opportunity. It’s easy for us to say, “get a job” but be honest, who is going to hire them in their current state?  
 
Mental health education is so important…as this thread shows. Lack of empathy seems to also be a crisis.  
 
I give them money or food when I can, unfortunately I keep less and less cash on me as the years go by. The only reason I don’t like seeing them is because I then feel guilty all day for not being able to give them more. I can’t imagine being so bothered by seeing someone pee outside.  
 
Many people should feel very privileged if the worst thing you had to do today was idle in your car beside a panhandler…

That was my nephew and thag was the gentleman with the dreadlocks, as I was the one who found them that night and my nephew took me to introduce me to him.  
 
I know he has issues, and thats fine. I know those with issues are not easily employable.  
 
I offered him food, money, etc and he turned it all down and just said he was happy that my nephew was safe.  
 
Of course, i do judge a book by its cover and I believe the women who are panhandling, can get jobs, basing on how they look.

This thread has prompted a question.  
 
Why isn't panhandling considered "a job"?  
 
I mean, it's not substantially different than some of the "actual jobs" out there. They are often at it for hours at a time, in all sorts of weather, sometimes taking abuse from "customers" (just like a lot of employees).  
 
They have to show up and or they don't get paid. Theoretically, it could be taxed as employment (vs "gifts", which aren't taxable)? Are they like a private contractor, self-employed?  
 
What constitutes "a job"? They may not produce anything etc but is that actually necessary for a job? Some "real jobs" are literal busywork and completely unnecessary. People who use social services etc don't produce anything in exchange for money, yet that's somehow more socially acceptable.  
 
I'm curious now. Not that panhandling should be an aspirational career option, but why exactly do we consider it as "not a job"?

Great question! I actually do kind of think of it as a job and that is why I don’t mind giving help. I personally know that it would take A LOT for me to need help so badly that I’d have to resort to standing outside asking strangers for money…I think about how degrading and shameful that would make me feel but know that it would need to be done to feed myself and/or family. That isn’t a feeling that anyone wants to have. If I can give them some help being it food or money, then I will do that and hope that it makes them feel seen and cared for. If I were in their shoes, I would want the help wouldn’t I?  
 
Yes of course there are always going to be the ones who spend the money on their addictions but don’t we all spend our money on what we want? Once I give something to someone else, it’s no longer mine and I don’t get to decide what gets done with it. If you want to micromanage their spending habits, then don’t donate money. Donate to the food banks, women’s shelters, Samaritan house etc. These are people in our society and we shouldn’t kick them when they’re down. We never know when our own circumstances could put us in their shoes.  
 
Yes I know some of their stories…but I still choose to help. Until we have a better system in place for these kind of people, what would others suggest we do in the meantime? Ignoring the problem doesn’t sit well with me.

So let’s say a thousand cars drive by a pan handler on a Friday and let’s say only 10 % give them money. Maybe $5. So that’s $500 in one day. Hmmm….How many people make that? I don’t think I’d give up that job. Maybe these people have no issues at all. Maybe they are smarter than us and have a good thing going. You never know?

It absolutely amazes me the kinds of things that people can dream up. Kind of reminds me of the society that I have been watching for the past 5 to 10 years. Nothing has any truth in it anymore. Turning situations where the least fortunate among us, are somehow demonized into something that they are not, is really pushing that line I fail to understand people anymore. These types of conversations definitely reveal a lot about all the different people around you and in your community, and how everybody thinks. Even the comments that suggest somehow that because somebody panhandles, they are not permitted to drop that money into a VLT operated by government, and returned back to the people. What is for sure, is that everybody is different. They do things and make decisions for various reasons, but I don't think it's up to me to judge when no harm has been done. The people offering the money are doing so uncoerced and voluntarily. Personally, I think there are much worse things than somebody taking a pee behind a hydro station, as though this is something your kid has never done or seen before. This is the world. It's a complicated, messy place. Everybody deserves to occupy space, and everybody makes their own decisions and has their own set of life experiences that take them down different paths. What an interesting read, though. Can't quite see why certain people appear to dislike people they have never spoken to, never given money to, never taken the time to understand what is going on. Instead, watching somebody do what you don't agree with, has a very profound internal reaction. But I would think there are much more important things in this world to be concerned about, than somebody down on their fortunes living a life that you yourself cannot stand.

that is the nature of human beings since the beginning of time. So nothing in this thread surprises me.  
I believe in the live and let live motto yet I struggle to understand why a person would stand day after day for years at a corner expecting free handouts. Money that we all work hard for and we all put a portion of our own money to taxes for programs to help individuals in need. Then hearing reports of those individuals squandering that free money at VLTs, drugs etc instead of using it to help themselves and they are right back at that corner begging for more. This is not hardship this is a choice these people are making. And we feed into their dependency on us by giving free cash. Then word gets out about people giving free money and more individuals show up expecting the same.  
I am aware of the mental/social issues these people face but how are we helping them if we feed into their dependency. My heart breaks for people who spiral into these situations. I regularly donate to the resources for these people to access so they can pull themselves out of the dire situation they are in. But they have to make that choice to help themselves.

This topic is not easily explained. Not all people who are homeless panhandle and not all people who panhandle are homeless. There are many many reasons that may cause a person to resort to panhandling. Not able to find a job, not employable, a multitude of physical or mental health issues or maybe your job pays minimum wage or you lose your job and you have a family to support. People mention living in a privileged society where policies/socioeconomic structure makes it easier for some people to get a head while holding others back. Maybe one, two or more of these factors affect you. Maybe you have the resilience and supports to keep your head above water. There may come a time when life changes and you no longer can keep your head above water. It is nice to think this may never happen to me or you. In a previous post I said people need to help themselves. But what if they can't?  
 
I am going back to read some more and judge a little less. Here is an interesting link that provides information.  
 
https://www.homelesshub.ca/  
 
BE KIND. Don't make assumptions. People who struggle do so often due to factors beyond their control. They are not lazy, don’t yell at them to get a job. Instead demand government utilize tax payers dollars more efficiently and transparently. Support low income housing and the many resources that help the more vulnerable in our society.  
 
Edited by Spades!!, 2022-09-11 09:51:13

Slapping a fine on panhandling or homelessness is a remarkably poor "solution" and is morally bankrupt - stating someone violates a law by virtue of existing in a specific state is a waste of energy and a complete failure to see something for what it is. It also doesn't fix the problem.  
 
The city should be funding as many mutual aid projects as it can, with the it being paid entirely by the wealthiest. It's their fault they exist in the first place. The state and the wealthy are 100% to blame for homelessness.  
 
Homelessness is a nuanced subject, but it's a fundamental need not being met or even offered to these poor individuals. They need compassion, not condemnation.  
 
Edited by MotorCycleMan, 2022-09-12 18:31:48

How would you work vacations into this employment model?

"Homelessness is a nuanced subject, but it's a fundamental need not being met or even offered to these poor individuals. They need compassion, not condemnation. "  
 
This is a very well thought out statement that needs to be examined more.  
 
I have a very close working relationship with the great men and women at BPS, and they would tend to agree with this. They would also agree that simply enforcing laws against the homeless is not the answer.  
 
I work in a field that involves those who have limited access to shelter, and it is a much bigger problem in Brandon than most might realize. Just take a walk in the neighborhood surrounding New Era Elementary School. There you will find boarded houses, multiple broken windows, burnt remains of buildings and squalor.  
 
The biggest issue that these people face is the predatory behaviors of landlords, and a lack of real effective mental health resources. More needs to be done to help the vulnerable population...by that I mean single parents, children, those suffering from addiction and those with mental and physical barriers keeping them from finding gainful employment.  
 
Enforcement will only make the problem worse!

I try not to shop at Superstore for this reason but went there today because they had something that I needed and was on sale, I went to return my cart and was approached by a man - was startled and he asked if he could have my cart loonie and I quietly said no and then was called a white B****ch. Once again it will be a long time before I go back there. It is only a loonie but I am struggling with finances like everyone else.

I would love to offer $5 for 15 minutes of picking up garbage in the ditches and here is a garbage bag. But …. I don’t have time to see it thru. Too bad with funding that some of these programs couldn’t offer smaller jobs, instead of just handouts.

Time to prioritize housing and eliminate homelessness By: Kris Desjarlais is an interesting article in today's Brandon Sun. The acronyms for the groups involved are CAB, MNPHA, HIPIS, CAP, BUAPC, BNRC and there are others such as YFC. Am in agreement with most of what Kris wrote One question would be is there someone (Group) leading this situation regarding housing? Also disagree with the safe injection site. What about Methadone sites

8 hours a day everyday that's dedication time for a resume and a job  
They are at every entrance/ exit  
Obviously thee corral centre does not care  
Not sure why ?  
The shoppers mall used to escort them off the property not sure if they still do