Discussions

Thanks for your posts about China, they are large polluters, but have set their mind to improve it, and have made much larger gains than many other nations.  
Sometimes pointing our fingers at others is used as an excuse to not do things ourselves.

What is the hereditary chief's problem? why do they not want the pipeline crossing their land? Environmental Impact studies have been conducted and completed. Do they have problems with the studies or are they just anti-pipeline? Are they just climate warriors? If so, don't they realize natural gas is part of the solution as one of the cleanest fossil fuels we have. If they are climate warriors, I certainly hope they don't have any diesel generators, propane or natural gas on their property either. That would be hypocritical. If they don't like Natural gas, they shouldn't be using it or anything dirtier either.  
 
What is their real Beef? does anyone even know?  
 
Edited by rum, 2020-02-28 15:31:14

Quite likely political infighting,

I can't even imagine what the angst is like on Wet'suwet'en territory right now. Elected chief and council are being completely ignored and rendered irrelevant while there is not even unanimous agreement between the hereditary chiefs. This has implications Canada wide and needs to be sorted out damn quick. If FN people are left to believe that they have been marginalized in society are now told that their voices mean diddly squat even amongst their own people, talk about being discounted. And, what of the countless FN agencies that have struggled for years to be seen as legitimate negotiating partners to now be told that power can be nullified at the whim of a few. What a sad state of affairs.  
 
To top it off, you get professional protesters coming in to hijack the situation. Canadians, of every color, are suffering due to the blockades but the majority of FN people are paying an enormous penalty when all they ask for, and deserve, is a fair shake.

It's self evident to say tht the situation will stay the same; or that things will change for the better, or that things will go downhill.  
 
If things stay the same … well that's not happening,. That implies that the protests are ineffective and that the rest of us can work around some minor demonstration inconveniences . That's the worst lose for the activists. They become irrelevant. So things will get better or worse.  
 
If things change for the better … Good on us. It implies that a solution is agreed upon by which Native Americans and the rest of us, the descendants of European invaders, become reconciled with each other. (Reconciliation is a two lane highway).  
 
If things change for the worse … that implies that civil disobedience is working and will continue.  
 
I'm no fan of the Trudeau's. and I'll suggest that JT has very little to do with the actual running of this country. He's just a figurehead. But if things do get worse - then JT might actually have to take a page out of Dad's playbook and tell us " Just watch me ".  
 
Probably his worst nightmare.

exactly what their motivations are, but what I do know is these Hereditary chiefs are not speaking for the majority of their people.  
 
I live in BC and have been here only two years so far and I can see there is a silent majority, and a VERY vocal minority in a lot of topics, environment being one of them.  
 
Unfortunately, there are four of these HC's that are stirring this pot, while their sub chiefs, some of their spouses and children, elected band leaders, etc involved WANT the pipeline to go through. These people want the jobs and the chance to move forward and help themselves.  
 
One thing to keep in mind is that these vocal minority protest groups in BC are extremely well funded. There is usually big money poking and prodding a select few to create these pockets of protest. Often it has been noted that protesters are PAID ACTORS. It has been reported locally that some of these anti-pipeline protesters seen about the area are the same people who were hired to stand outside the courthouse when Meng Wazou showed up for court dates recently. They are paid actors. Someone is paying them to be there.  
 
I am not discounting the real protesters, but always keep this grain of salt in mind - a lot of what is being reported is theatrics.

Several days ago one of the protesters was interviewed and he stated that for every cause there is always innocent victims that become casualties. To me the victims of these demonstrations are the Canadian Taxpayers - The Farmers who can't ship their product to market, the Business owner who can't get their product to resell and the individual who gets laid off due to lack of work. The Government needs to intervene and if they allow the demonstrations to continue - THEN- all monthly cheques that go to First Nation Reserves to cover their monthly operating expenses and all cheques that go to First Nation Individuals should be re-directed to a special account to cover some of the hardships suffered by Canadian Taxpayers. Farmers, business owners and laid off individuals would then be able to put in a claim against these funds to off set some of their losses.

That I used to laugh when a much older colleague talked about the way that greed drives many people. Now that I am a little older myself I have learnt that he was right. I am doing just fine myself thank you.

I see our government sitting with hereditary chiefs discussing plans while all other FN sit waiting to see the outcome? I guess the elected chiefs have no say or represent the majority if they sit there idle and allow this.I would like to know who represents them or does everyone that thinks they can? As one friend says month end treaty cheques should go by rail at the end of the month. As for us I feel staying away from FN ran facilities is the best way to retaliate for the disruption of hard working Canadians. I could only wish for free health care and pills and dental glasses free schooling and accommodations and for years and years. Free housing and little taxes and free sports equipment and registration etc. We see Canadians out of a jobs now waiting for this to end while our politicians sit idle and I wonder what the final cheque will be written again to stop this. Enough is enough I want the best for my family not support everyone elses

I'm beginning to think this 2 people system needs to change. Let all Canadians be equal. No special privileges based on who one's parents were. I know there are treaties made by Canadians of the past that need to be respected. Those should be renegotiated, bought out, and land reallotted to individuals, not groups. Personally, I'd be willing to give every Indigenous man, woman, and child one million dollars per person, as individuals to get out of this apartheid system. To get to a place where we can be all be equal under the laws of Canada, where there is no privilege based on any category.

did this thread migrate from the refusal of a pipeline route to a green energy debate? Basic issue is that the pipeline is routed across tribal-claimed land that is the subject of an ongoing (or is supposed to be ongoing) dispute in the BC courts. Supreme Court told BC to have another trial, hasn't happened yet.

Likely because of the Protesters are not good at making their cause known. It seems very few people know why they are protesting (I certainly don't). Some of us are assuming it may be related to climate. There is virtually no education on what the issues are, what the positions are, and what the options are.  
 
All we know is they are being distruptive.

This from the CBC news site.  
"The dispute also encompasses other unsettled land rights and title issues, including who has the right to negotiate with governments and corporations, the fact that the land is not covered by a treaty and remains unceded, and a 1997 court case that recognized the hereditary chiefs' authority and the exclusive right of the Wet'suwet'en peoples to the land, but did not specify the boundaries."

I read in the brandon sun today, that the heredity chiefs are not in agreement as to allow or not allow the pipeline. So with the elected chiefs wanting the pipeline, and the heredity chiefs not in solidarity with not allowing the pipeline...who knows what's next....yet, the whole country is pushed into disarray over this issue.

on "Wetsuwenen" brings up a dispute referenced to a legal case "Delgamuukw vs. British Columbia"  
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delgamuukw_v_British_Columbia  
 
Seems that the lands the pipeline are scheduled to go through are disputed. Supreme Court of Canada has directed BC to have another court case on this, and they haven't yet. Seems pretty straightforward to me.  
 
Given this, what options are open to those claiming the rights? Saying and doing nothing means they will lose the land to which they may have a hereditary claim.