Discussions

I guess if this is going to be a situation of what a politician says and does, and the cost to us as Canadians, we could maybe look at one of the final acts of our last Prime Minister. Decisions always come with a cost, sometime they are security, sometimes they are financial, which can lead to damage to us as Canadians and affect our standard of living, so if it's the billion dollars plus that's a concern, one should maybe also consider this  
 
http://www.chch.com/balsillie-fears-trans-pacific-trade-deal-could-cost-billions/  
 
Edited by don brown, 2015-11-23 21:19:54

way to treat the men and women who give their lives to protect us and our freedom . turd uh uh will destroy every aspect of Canada .. he is the 1 that needs to go .

I don't know Don brown, your posts seem to be preaching 'nothing we say will change anything' 'were helpless' 'don't disagree since it won't matter' 'stick our head in the sand and talk about it in 4 years'.  
 
No, governments job is to represent the interests of their constituents. We can't be silent about things we are passionate about.  
 
Already the liberals ahave woken up to the reality of popular opinion on their 'deadline'

don brown said "I guess if this is going to be a situation of what a politician says and does, and the cost to us as Canadians, we could maybe look at one of the final acts of our last Prime Minister. Decisions always come with a cost, sometime they are security, sometimes they are financial, which can lead to damage to us as Canadians and affect our standard of living, so if it's the billion dollars plus that's a concern, one should maybe also consider this     http://www.chch.com/balsillie-fears-trans-pacific-trade-deal-could-cost-billions/     Edited by don brown, 2015-11-23 21:19:54"

And Research in Motion knows what bad money management looks like.  
 
FYI  
Balsillie is overseeing the foundation of a new lobby group for Canadian technology interests alongside John Ruffolo of OMERS Ventures, a technology investment firm.  
The two men will likely meet with Trudeau over the next few weeks to discuss priorities for the industry and the foundation of their new lobbyist organization, which will represent a membership of nearly 40 domestic tech companies that meet certain revenue criteria.  
 
I'm sure a paid lobbyist would never stretch the truth.  
 
I wonder how much the private meeting will cost the tax payers.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2015-11-23 21:39:02

You take a quote from one person and you think it's the 100% truth .Most experts believe there is more good than bad in the TPP deal. And by the way the TPP is not passed, the liberals have to pass it. Anyways, way off topic. Oh and this country was built on hard work and sacrifice and good morals, thats why it's a great country, luck had nothing to do with it.

What were the costs that were put forth by the last government when it came to this deal, if I remember it was more than 1.5 billion and would be on the taxpayers shoulders. There have been many right wing people come out in the last little while talking how all these trade deals are ending up costing our economies.  
 
I guess the idea of lobbying is a new idea and up till now has never cost taxpayer anything.  
 
Loeog do you run a business? I'm aware of the problems that RIM as well as Blackberry have as far as management go, but I don't believe that anyone can plan for everything, just a few weeks ago SJK was going on about how a deal between the three western provinces would hurt their business. The action of the three western provinces could be looked at as a unknown, but unknowns can have two effects on business, or in this case refugees, the money spent could end up a gain or loss in the long run.  
 
In not sure about the differences in costs that you used, the link you provided talked of the cost of sponsored refugees, do those numbers include everything, do they include the costs of screening, the costs of all the paperwork or medical testing that might have to be done, do they include the cost of transportation, or is it just the cost of keeping the person for a year. These are things that I don't know, but if we are comparing we have to be comparing apples to apples.

Agreed, this country was built on hard work, sacrifice and good morals, as well as immigration and accepting refugees from around the world who were displaced because of natural disasters or wars. the country was also built on risk and debt, the transcontinental railroad was a risk and was built with substantial debt, but was there the fear shown at that time, that is being shown now. When the Irish famine was happening what sort of screening was in place, or during war when we took refugees where we this consumed with the danger or the cost, for some reason I don't believe so.

I think a reason for kicking solders out of their homes is starting to surface.  
Early reports from several European countries and news agencies with video are showing refugees complaining about there temp living quarters.  
Complaints include:  
Slow internet  
No cigarettes  
No booze?  
Bad food  
No tv  
Not being given enough money  
Jail like conditions  
And on the video I watched, a small group are saying they would rather be sent home than continue life under these conditions in the Netherlands.  
 
I'm only guessing, but kicking the military out of their homes maybe better than having refugees rioting after they arrive.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2015-11-23 22:25:17

No booze? I thought that alcohol was taboo as far as Muslims were concerned.

don brown said "No booze? I thought that alcohol was taboo as far as Muslims were concerned. "

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_in_Syria  
 
Government run breweries.  
 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arak_(drink)  
 
I guess It's kinda like saying Christians don't drink, Canada's mostly Christian, So it makes sense Canadians don't drink.  
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by loeog, 2015-11-23 22:47:50

don brown said "What were the costs that were put forth by the last government when it came to this deal, if I remember it was more than 1.5 billion and would be on the taxpayers shoulders. There have been many right wing people come out in the last little while talking how all these trade deals are ending up costing our economies.     I guess the idea of lobbying is a new idea and up till now has never cost taxpayer anything.     Loeog do you run a business? I'm aware of the problems that RIM as well as Blackberry have as far as management go, but I don't believe that anyone can plan for everything, just a few weeks ago SJK was going on about how a deal between the three western provinces would hurt their business. The action of the three western provinces could be looked at as a unknown, but unknowns can have two effects on business, or in this case refugees, the money spent could end up a gain or loss in the long run.     In not sure about the differences in costs that you used, the link you provided talked of the cost of sponsored refugees, do those numbers include everything, do they include the costs of screening, the costs of all the paperwork or medical testing that might have to be done, do they include the cost of transportation, or is it just the cost of keeping the person for a year. These are things that I don't know, but if we are comparing we have to be comparing apples to apples. "

Costs are a good question. In the past posts, I did provide the best links I could find from trusted news agencies.  
 
The $20000 for a family of four, I have seen as high as $27,000.  
This is the price it costs for getting all the screening, health and supports until they are handed over to the sponsor.  
I believe this number to be true.  
This number is the cost to get them in Canada with all screening done.  
I should add that in many cases 10,000 of that was to be repaid in one year.  
 
The liberal best guess cost to land and screen the refugees by month end lists at around 535,000,000. This compares to well under 200,000,000 pre election.  
 
The remaining 700 million comes in after landing costs like medical, food, housing and final screening.  
Minimum 1.2 billion equals around 192,000 for a family of 4 before a sponsor is found.  
 
One additional cost is going to be the cost of legal representation for these people, our charter of rights and freedoms gives them full legal representation the moment they land. This will include paying the legal costs for 3 levels of courts if we find someone we wish to send home.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by loeog, 2015-11-23 23:21:17

Many of the Muslim countries contain Christians, and alcohol is legal in these countries, my comment has to do with what much of this discussion has been about and that is the threat of Muslim terrorist coming into Canada because of fast tracking of refugees. On e again the question is not is alcohol legal, but is alcohol a taboo to Muslim people. You are posting an idea that in certain countries there is a complaint about alcohol not being available, if this complaint is being made, it is not likely being made by Muslim refugees, which is the bases for most of this discussion.  
 
Got to call it a night, lots of work to get done tomorrow so I can make a living to pay taxes for everything that all governments do.

don brown said "In a way this is like other things that governments do, like our provincial tax   Increase, we can all complain and b*tch but that's not going to change anything at this point, and we'll have to live with it, four years from now if it's affected the country in a negative way we'll get to have our say. "

...and elect another Liberal majority.  
 
We get the government we deserve.

what to make of this. Either McCallum is drunk again or the Liberals have been caught lying again!  
 
http://www.therebel.media/how_did_mccallum_meet_the_syrian_refugees  
 
 
And how come there are no women in the picture!

Sure glad the ones that defend our nation and Liberty are getting kicked out of their homes on three days notice to house these people. Thanks Justin for looking after your own country!!!

SJK said "what to make of this. Either McCallum is drunk again or the Liberals have been caught lying again!     http://www.therebel.media/how_did_mccallum_meet_the_syrian_refugees       And how come there are no women in the picture! "

Both perhaps? Neither one would surprise me. The Liberals shot their mouths off, making a politically correct election promise with no plan on how to accomplish it and now they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to back it up. According to recent polling, it was a promise that 54 percent of Canadians don't want them to keep.

Triplethreat said "    SJK said "what to make of this. Either McCallum is drunk again or the Liberals have been caught lying again!     http://www.therebel.media/how_did_mccallum_meet_the_syrian_refugees       And how come there are no women in the picture! " Both perhaps? Neither one would surprise me. The Liberals shot their mouths off, making a politically correct election promise with no plan on how to accomplish it and now they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to back it up. According to recent polling, it was a promise that 54 percent of Canadians don't want them to keep. "

from any part of the country and use it as you wish to try and sway people but...  
the only real poll that is accurate and COUNTS is the one taken on election night 2015.  
 
Less than 32 percent of Canadians voted to support the Harper rein of anti-democracy, anti-Muslim and huge deficit spending year after year after year. Billions and billions added to our national debt each and every year.  
 
2 out of 3 Canadians voted to elect a government with a radical plan to save and change the lives of at least 25,000 desperate people.  
 
It was a great day for Canada, a great day for Democracy and we should be proud that Canada is back on the world stage as the great nation it used to be a decade ago. Just ask the nation's premiers how they feel about this new direction.  
 
The people have spoken, you can chirp away all you want but this is what the majority of caring Canadians voted for: REAL CHANGE for at least 4 more years!!!  
 
That's how things work!  

DarMar said "    Triplethreat said "    SJK said "what to make of this. Either McCallum is drunk again or the Liberals have been caught lying again!     http://www.therebel.media/how_did_mccallum_meet_the_syrian_refugees       And how come there are no women in the picture! " Both perhaps? Neither one would surprise me. The Liberals shot their mouths off, making a politically correct election promise with no plan on how to accomplish it and now they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off, trying to back it up. According to recent polling, it was a promise that 54 percent of Canadians don't want them to keep. " from any part of the country and use it as you wish to try and sway people but...   the only real poll that is accurate and COUNTS is the one taken on election night 2015.     Less than 32 percent of Canadians voted to support the Harper rein of anti-democracy, anti-Muslim and huge deficit spending year after year after year. Billions and billions added to our national debt each and every year.     2 out of 3 Canadians voted to elect a government with a radical plan to save and change the lives of at least 25,000 desperate people.     It was a great day for Canada, a great day for Democracy and we should be proud that Canada is back on the world stage as the great nation it used to be a decade ago. Just ask the nation's premiers how they feel about this new direction.     The people have spoken, you can chirp away all you want but this is what the majority of caring Canadians voted for: REAL CHANGE for at least 4 more years!!!     That's how things work!   "

last time too with roughly the same percentage points as the Liberals did this time.  
 
Somehow you equated that to 60% of the people didn't vote for the Conservatives.  
 
So which is it. It's only democracy when the liberals get in! Didn't we tell you then that that's how things work but you still chirped away for 4 years didn't you.  
 
Get used to it, we are going to chirp! That's how things work!

SJK said "what to make of this. Either McCallum is drunk again or the Liberals have been caught lying again!     http://www.therebel.media/how_did_mccallum_meet_the_syrian_refugees       And how come there are no women in the picture! "

Is it possible that these refugees were already in the system before the election ? Harper did pledge to bring some in, and did say that some were already being screened. He said that the screening process was robust. If that is true, will you be using the same vitriolic comments or are they reserved for everybody but Harper and his minions ?  
 
At some point I hope that people will open their minds to the notion that there are genuine refugees who need our help. Slowing the process down in order to facilitate proper screening should not be a problem.  
 

standard standard h8r said "    SJK said "what to make of this. Either McCallum is drunk again or the Liberals have been caught lying again!     http://www.therebel.media/how_did_mccallum_meet_the_syrian_refugees       And how come there are no women in the picture! " Is it possible that these refugees were already in the system before the election ? Harper did pledge to bring some in, and did say that some were already being screened. He said that the screening process was robust. If that is true, will you be using the same vitriolic comments or are they reserved for everybody but Harper and his minions ?     At some point I hope that people will open their minds to the notion that there are genuine refugees who need our help. Slowing the process down in order to facilitate proper screening should not be a problem.     "

But then why would MCallum say "only 24,000 to go"?  
 
Are they counting the conservative approved refugees that were already coming as part of their 25,000 pledge?

Yes i to have seen the 'refugees fleeing terror' complain about just about everything that was freely provided. It's unfortunate for bothsides that those coming and those receiving have entirely different views of what out will be like.  
 
One man showed reporters his plate of food saying it was inedible, not foot for dogs. He would never feed this to his dogs...it was only good for women.  
 
These are the values which will be coming into our country. Despite the 'one hour interview' Canada has with potential migrants, I'm not convinced they will arrive believing all Canadians are equal.

I remember the Liberals saying 25000. I don't remember them saying 25000 on top of anything that the Conservatives had planned or were already being processed.  
 
I would not support the Liberals refusing refugees that were already in the system, so that they can start their count to 25000.  
 
I think we need to give both parties some latitude so that this important work can be done without the highly charged partisan sniping, which serves no productive purpose whatsoever, being a distraction.  
 
 
 
Edited by standard standard h8r, 2015-11-24 12:43:29

thankfully, that one man you mentioned no more represents all potential refugees than you represent all Canadians.  
 

Heritage said "Yes i to have seen the 'refugees fleeing terror' complain about just about everything that was freely provided. It's unfortunate for bothsides that those coming and those receiving have entirely different views of what out will be like.     One man showed reporters his plate of food saying it was inedible, not foot for dogs. He would never feed this to his dogs...it was only good for women.     These are the values which will be coming into our country. Despite the 'one hour interview' Canada has with potential migrants, I'm not convinced they will arrive believing all Canadians are equal. "

Can you provide a link to these claims?

Cee Jay 55 said "    Heritage said "Yes i to have seen the 'refugees fleeing terror' complain about just about everything that was freely provided. It's unfortunate for bothsides that those coming and those receiving have entirely different views of what out will be like.     One man showed reporters his plate of food saying it was inedible, not foot for dogs. He would never feed this to his dogs...it was only good for women.     These are the values which will be coming into our country. Despite the 'one hour interview' Canada has with potential migrants, I'm not convinced they will arrive believing all Canadians are equal. " Can you provide a link to these claims? "

There are a lot of videos on the net!

Maybe, just maybe we should wait until we get all the information we need before we all jump to conclusions. We do know that Canada is bringing in these refugees and that they will be screened. Does it really matter whether the ones that have already arrived were selected when a Conservative government was in power and the next ones by the current government? It saddens me to think that our humanity and caring for others has become such a divisive issue. We have always had this type of discussion regarding bringing in refugees and it has turned out OK for our country in the end. I can only try to imagine what it is like to have lived in a refugee camp for even a year with my family let alone longer. Sure, they may be safe from being bombed by their own government or killed by one of the rebel groups in Syria or even forced to join ISIS but the future must look pretty damn grim and without hope. As for terrorist hiding with the refugees, that is always a possibility but the ones in Paris were evidently French born citizens with a French passport. Could any of them not have boarded a plane and flown here at any time? Yes, we shouldn’t rush things but let’s not let fear override our compassion. When Parliament resumes in December I’m sure our elected representatives will bring up all the issues and concerns.

The liberals are correct about the screening process and not needing federal employees trained and on the ground.  
 
Their plan to bring them to Canada and leave them unattended is perfect.  
 
In two weeks, those that have run away are the ones we don't want in Canada.  
 
Simple Genius

You tube: The refugees in Europe act like disappointed tourists compilation

Yep you're right they will delay the remaining 15000 until January and Feb. It's a relief to hear that they are listening to some of the common sense from Canadians.  
 
From within the health care system, i still can't fathom the resources we need to help even ten thousand people coming from years in a refugee camp in Lebanon

OTTAWA - The Liberal government will not meet its Dec. 31 deadline to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees and now says it aims to complete the program by February.  
 
 
 
25000 was the promise by years end, not like terrorism wasn't around last month!