Discussions

You're mixing apples and oranges when you bring modified outcomes into the mix.  
 
Each course has its specific and general outcomes. Modified outcomes are not a remedy for those students who, for whatever reason do not show evidence of learning.  
 
Modified outcomes are used when a student cannot meet the regular outcomes, usually on the basis of a diagnosed learning disability. In this case, an Individualized Educational Plan is developed usually by resource staff, with input from other professional staff, and implemented by the classroom teacher and others, with support and approval from the parents.  
 
The modified outcomes are known before the IEP implemented, and are not used to justify a lack of achievement. Having said that, an undiagnosed disability may be the reason for a lack of achievement, in which case an IEP will be created and will be required to be met.  
 
To say that modified outcomes can and will be used if a student doesn't show enough work to meet the provincial outcomes is wrong.

Paul A said "You're mixing apples and oranges when you bring modified outcomes into the mix.     Each course has its specific and general outcomes. Modified outcomes are not a remedy for those students who, for whatever reason do not show evidence of learning.     Modified outcomes are used when a student cannot meet the regular outcomes, usually on the basis of a diagnosed learning disability. In this case, an Individualized Educational Plan is developed usually by resource staff, with input from other professional staff, and implemented by the classroom teacher and others, with support and approval from the parents.     The modified outcomes are known before the IEP implemented, and are not used to justify a lack of achievement. Having said that, an undiagnosed disability may be the reason for a lack of achievement, in which case an IEP will be created and will be required to be met.     To say that modified outcomes can and will be used if a student doesn't show enough work to meet the provincial outcomes is wrong. "

Grad rates are putting Principals and schools under great scrutiny.  
The pressure to find alternative assignments and to review other "data" when considering a students progress is growing. Saying the rising grad rate is because we have smarter students holds no weight.  
 
Another example of why we have weak students:  
 
You can also look at the attendance system, schools have added auto dial phone calls home when a student misses a class, Homelogic, and increased the required number of calls home by staff, but the average number of skipped classes is still on the rise. If you have your own high school student in Brandon, go on Homelogic and see your kids numbers. If you don't have a high school age student, ask someone that does to show you the attendance page for their student.  
An average of 6 missed classes per good student per subject is normal and over 16 per subject is not uncommon, but 25 to 40 and still in class and required to pass to make the school look good is not unheard of.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-03-15 08:24:54

In 1-8 students are not retained. Each year they are moved on no matter how they do. This goes on till grade 9 when they now need to attain certain credits and number of credits to receive a high school certificate. Until retention is started in the lower grades and the students understand that test scores, completing assignments, and doing homework when needed matters we will not see a change in Manitoba's rankings. Many students do not succeed in school due to lack of effort, not lack of ability. TV, cell phone, computer, and sports all come before academics now in most students lives that do not do well in school. Why do more than 50% now fail to get their drivers licence first time? They don't study before the written test, and don't practice for the road test.

schools and Principals should be under a degree of scrutiny. It seems to me that would lead to a degree of accountability.  
 
As for alternative assignments, many school divisions are now thinking outside the box in terms of assessment, and finding more creative ways to determine what and how students learn. Its not dumbing down the curriculum, its being realistic that not all kids are the same, and do not learn the same way.  
 
Its about keeping kids in school as well. There inevitably will be the students who miss time here and there, and those who will be the chronic non-attenders. Those kids will not meet enough outcomes to earn a credit. To say it happens all the time in most schools is either a gross exaggeration or an urban myth.  
 
Retention does happen in EY and MY classes, but its a lot more complicated than just putting the child in the same class for the following year. There are many factors to consider, above and beyond what the child did or didn't do. The negative psychological effect of retention can far outweigh the benefit, but the mastery of skills need to be considered as well. Parental input must be considered as well - many parents support retention, many do not.  
 
There are many factors in the life of a high school student that will affect their performance. "Most" students do not suffer from these distractions, but some do, and I agree that there are those that are their own worst enemies when it comes to putting out no effort. we just don't know.  
 
I often think of the student I had that couldn't get to school in the morning, couldn't get organized enough to do homework, or manage to get it together enough to finish high school. He was working nights to support his siblings.

with Paul A - regarding retention in EY and MY. It is about much more than keeping a child in the same grade for a year.  
 
Things have changed since I was in school decades ago. Most parents today grew up in a 'social promotion' system where struggling students passed from grade to grade without consideration for their academic performance or learning behaviors as much as the negative psychological impact of retention. Most younger teachers grew up in that system, and older teachers were teaching in that same system. It's what everyone is used to.  
 
Like most things in education, one size does not fit all, and what we thought was best for the students changes. I think that psychologically, it can be more damaging in the long term for a child to always struggle behind their peers. It can benefit them to have an extra year to build their skills and knowledge before moving on to more challenging concepts. Seeing positive results for hard work can be a great confidence builder. Everything needs to be weighed and a decision made in the best interest of that particular student.  
 
"In Kindergarten to Grade 8, promotion decisions rest with the principal, who consults with teachers, parents, and other specialists as appropriate. The decision is based on the evidence of the student’s progress and growth, and considers the grade level placement that would support and extend the student’s learning.  
Whether the decision is to retain or to promote a struggling student, the school must address that student’s learning needs. For example, simply having a  
student retained in a grade to repeat all the work done the previous year will not necessarily address the student’s learning needs and result in success. In a similar manner, simply promoting a struggling student, without adequate supports, will not lead to success."  
 
 
I think it's a good policy, but it can be hard when many parents don't want to hear that their child might benefit from repeating a grade and would prefer that they continue with their classmates and with extra support.  
 
I think we could consider having an earlier cut-off date for starting 1st grade. I know a lot of kids start kindergarten at 4 because they are well socialized and ready according to the usual standards - they are the right age, many have the benefit of years of daycare and preschool, and they are used to learning things for fun from technology and TV. When learning becomes more like work, it can be more of a struggle. A lot of kids will thrive in kindergarten at age four, but that doesn't mean that some couldn't benefit from another year before facing the rest of life's challenges - and each school year brings more of those. If look at the overall picture of graduation rates and high school/post-secondary performance, I suspect that age/maturity of the students could be a factor keeping some of them from doing as well as they could.