Discussions

It is sad to see this community center hasn't been maintained. My daughter used to take dance lessons there, maybe 4 years ago they had to move to another venue. The reason was we would show up on a Saturday morning in the winter and the heat wouldn't be on, so the toilets were frozen and couldn't be used. 3 hours of dance lessons and the little kids couldn't go to the bathroom, health and safety issue for sure.

I miss all the punk shows there. Great times

to enjoy the community centres, as long as others look after the hard work to keep it running. It takes a lot of work and commitment to make sure they stay open. Especially if they have a rink. Many want to skate, but don't want to put the ice in, which require hours spent outside with a hose in the cold, then do flooding during the winter.  
 
Volunteers are burning out with no one new coming to take over. The existing volunteers probably have other things they would like to do as well, but they do it for their community. And that's why the community centres are closing and falling into disrepair.

I’m close to retirement and my wife asked me what I plan to do. One thing I said I would like to help out at a rink. When I was young the Community center kept me busy and out of trouble.

We've started a petition to save the Park Community Centre. Please sign and share if you want to keep this important community space alive!  
http://chng.it/HR6JNQb5

The Park Community Center, along will all of our old neighbourhood centers are a reflection of not only our community spirit, but the modern attitude in the human condition. ....We'll use it, as long as we don'y have to be involved. Aaaah yes, that old saying of "wanting something for nothing". Times have changed and these centers are not changing as well as we hoped they've should. We can reminiscence about the "good 'ol days", but they will not come back. Gone are the selflessness and the personal interaction among others. We now stay within our own personal boundaries and our specific social groups. ...Some real, but limited ...more often, artificial or superficial. It's no wonder these community centers suffer, because these no community involvement. Expectations are also part of the problem. Not many people want "the basics" anymore. From skating/hockey outside to hosting a simple event of which in when you actually serve, entertain and clean-up by/for yourselves. And the ones that do, just want it to be "on the cheap". Yeah, we all have our excuses... Single parent, low income, shift work schedules, busy family and so on and so on. But the fact is we just don't want to get involved, be responsible, deal with people we don't want to know and be saddled with something we don't want to do for a really long time. I know I'm sometimes like this,myself. I would rather throw some money at something and have someone else do the "heavy lifting" while I just sit back and do whatever I wish (Hell, I paid for some of it... I should enjoy it, right?). Sadly, I do this with many of the organized sports/activities my kids are doing. It's laziness on my part, but it's also that anti-social vibe I'ved developed over the years watch others from doing sweet bugger all. It's infectious. If you've done enough volunteering, it's seen all the time. Often, it's the dedicated few doing everything all the time, while the others come and go like it's an cocktail party. (If you don't know what I mean: It's like showing up at a mandatory staff meeting/event because there's pizza there. Your only focus you have there is the small talk/socialize with only the people you like/know , eat the free food and forget about the reason why you're there in the first place. ) Failing community centers are the result of this same attitude and process.  
 
How do we fix this? ...Well, the easy way is to appoint the problem to an organized group. ...Like the city. Kinda typical in the way we do things, now-in-days. Ironic isn't it? We're asking to solve the problem in the way we've caused the problem in the first place. By passing the buck onto someone else. These's another way ...But, no one will go for it. We all know what it is, but just don't want to say it, out loud.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

only now is there interest in saving it? Where was the interest and volunteers before? Why didn't the Park Community Centre board do more to maintain it? For those who sign the petition what are you going to do if it is saved, become a volunteer and board member?  
 
http://brandon.ca/community-centres/park  
 
http://brandon.ca/images/pdf/Volunteer/2016_CC_Board_Member_Application_Form.pdf

but may be instead of putting it on the city, get a citizen board that looks after them all. They are already linked to the city. Evidently local boards at some centres just don't function like they should, and that's likely to lack of volunteers.  
 
Every year around this time there are posts asking whether there skating rinks are ready at the community centres. And I'm sure those asking are only interested in skating/playing hockey and not spending the time to volunteer to get them ready.  
 
Not sure how the funding is provided. Do they get yearly funding from the city to go to maintenance, upkeep, cleaning. Or is is just from events and rentals?  
 
It also looks like there is no charge to skate. When I lived in Douglas, they were charging a nightly or winter fee to skate there. And it helped to maintain the rink. I also got involved with the board one year and put in the outdoor ice, flooded it during the winter, made sure rules were followed, ran the canteen, opened and closed the rink at night. And yes it was a lot of time to commit too.  
 
If residents are worried about their Community Centre's, get involved! Otherwise they will start to fail, suffer from lack of maintenance, and possibly close. But it seems like only then there is an outcry, but no damn was given before.

You're expecting too much from the public. They're just interested or demanding in getting it fixed/replaced. No one really wants to actually put their own money or time into the center. ...They just don't want to see it gone. Very few are actually going to donate cash or pick up an hammer or sign onto a committee. Heck! Very few would actually make the effort to physically sign an actual petition. Go on line or don't get the support. It's the lazy way to do things, now. Everyone likes to make noise as long as they don't really have to be involved. Lately it's only the oppressed that actually commits to any physical rallies. First Nations, gays/trans, homeless, fixed incomes, ect... When is the last time people actually protested about something like an closing community center? Nope... Just log in, complain on-line and click on the petition icon. Because we don't really have anything at stake here, so we won't make the effort.  
 
Sorry to be a "Negative Nelly" so close to X-mas, but the truth is kinda depressing.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

For the past number of years the outdoor rink hasn't been used during the winter, and I would guess it's because no one wants to put in the time to put the ice in and maintain it. Or put in the time to open, turn the lights on, then supervise the skaters and enforcing the rules. Seeing how it's the only outdoor hockey rink in the northend, I'm sure it's being missed. And many want it open. Which is another case of wanting others to do it, but we will enjoy the benefits of the hard work without doing it ourselves.

The folks who have been acting as caretakers for the Park CC over the last few years have dumped blood sweat and tears into that place, and have done everything they can to keep it viable - the problem is that the revenues from the building are not enough to cover major renovation costs.  
 
The city actually promised the hall money to fix the floor back in 2013, and every time since then that they have attempted to get the work started, it has gone nowhere.  
 
There is no ice at the Park CC, and the folks who rent it clean up after themselves so there are not a lot of bodies needed to keep the place functioning.  
 
The city has neglected this property for too long, and the cost of refurb vs. demolition is not that much higher. If they can devote huge dollars to an outdoor stage at the Discovery Centre that's only useful 3 or 4 months of the year, they can devote a little to keep this useful, inclusive community space viable.

Maybe we can put a bug in the politician's ear for some new bills written. YA RITE Like: em buggers on propation and the petty criminals, (theft, DUI, assaults, property damage etc. etc. ) to be assisted out of jail and flood our rinks amongst other needs, pull city weeds, shovel walks etc.  
Are they not sitting in jail on taxpayer's money? Get some damn manual labor out of them.

Very true!!

of course if the board raises rates to cover renos, there would be out rage.

but.... it is not up to volunteers to maintain the state of the building itself, that is the city's responsibility.

I would be all for these centers being city run with entry level wages to city employees with higher wages for those who build and maintain these rinks if it meant my taxes went up a bit. I much rather see city employees looking after these centers than watering the flowers in boulevards while its pouring rain outside.

The potential closure of this community Center has nothing to do with volunteer burnout. This is the result of the very poor funding centres receive the past 10-20 years. The proof is in the pudding.  
 
Does everyone know that beautiful Valleyview Center essentially received the entire city comm Center budget for like three years. So that meant zero funding for all the rest during that time.  
 
The city has painted itself in a corner and say there are few options. You can only neglect property for so long then it’s almost falling down or worthless.  
 
Volunteers do the work, but without actual real, consistent funding this will continue.

communities centre's in small communities have to fend for themselves without a city piggybank. They raised money by doing community events, suppers, breakfasts, dances, bizaraars, bingos, etc..  
 
Maybe the city community centres could look at doing things like that without relying on the city for funding?  
 
Also why are we only hearing about the issues this community center has now? What are all the things that need to be done to be fixed? Are they things that community residents can get together and fix? Community residents should be able to helpout their local community centre. Build community friendship, meet neighbours, make the community centre their own.  
 
Maybe that's just small community thinking, not city thinking. Residents of a small community would not allow their community centre, hall, rink fall into disrepair and would volunteer their time to make any repairs. And these are all things I remember from my childhood, my Dad would help with maintenance, Mom do any baking. Weather it be for a fall supper or the bonspiels.  
 
I'm referring to the Douglas Hall and Rink BTW.  
 
Maybe small communities take care of their community centres (hall/rink) better because it's the lifeblood of the community. While for city residents not so much.

Found the report that will be shown to council. Didn't realize the issues are structural under the floor, and that it was made by combining 3 separate wood buildings.  
 
https://paperlesscouncil.brandon.ca/attachments/A_2019/GEN_MCNYAXKIIVCLBQMDLDPYAZKBVNLJAYOQCJXLTGSNTJTEVJRXUZA_Park%20Community%20Centre.pdf

As I stated in my earlier post, the problem is not lack of enthusiasm from the community. The Centre is well used and well 'staffed'. Most of Brandon's community centres have dedicated volunteers and community members who keep them running, but we all know that a building, particularly an older building, needs regular maintenance and repair to stay safe and efficient.  
 
The problem is that the revenue generated by the centre is not enough to cover the cost of major renovation or repairs, and the city has ignored that fact.  
 
And this is not new. The caretakers of the Park CC have been trying for years to work with the city to address these issues. The city promised them in 2013 to provide funds to address issues, but have stonewalled them with red tape or plain ignorance anytime they've attempted to get the jobs done since. This is regular practice for the city of Brandon - demolition by neglect. Leave it until it's 'ruined', then rip it down. The only reason it's coming to light now is because the city has decided that this neighbourhood is better off without it and the community disagrees.  
 
It may be the cynic in me, but when they say they would like to use it for "green space", I suspect that it will sit empty for 6 months or a year, then be quietly sold to J&G or another developer to knock up a couple of 4-plexes on.  
 
This is a historic and important Brandon landmark with loads of community support. Our petition already has over 600 signatures in less than a day.  
 
Community involvement and use is not the issue! The issue is the city's neglect and failure to maintain important infrastructure.  
 
Edited by KenJ, 2019-12-14 19:36:27

Sort of agree with the idea of small town thinking as far as supporting the community, but it can also be a double edged sword.  
Sad reality of things is that provincial and federal governments look at voting numbers when making decisions on supporting many different things, so the idea of community support is something that can be exploited by provincial and federal governments, in a way it’s a polite way of downloading.

Quote....  
 
"Community involvement and use is not the issue! The issue is the city's neglect and failure to maintain important infrastructure. "

pay big coin in this city. Some should go for services such as community centres, as least in maintaining a building. We give the Keystone millions of dollars every year, the bill for the community centres pales in comparison.  
The city run youth centre gets lots of cash to operate and we all know the building is in good repair both inside and out for the kids.  
At least with the community centres there is a potential to bring in some cash thru rentals etc.

If our city can afford a 200k city manager then surely we can maintain the city owned facilities. I think the 7k+ I pay in taxes every year would have covered at least one community centre upgrade.

So a 2nd issue to deal with city council, is why is the comm center funding so out of touch with the real needs of the these centers. If they are such an important part of the community why have we let them get so far gone?  
 
I mean the great expensive study that was done has lots of new items and projects for the future of brandon communities. I think they have totally written off the importance of these centers. Valleyview is a brand new comm center and it is state of the art......but one question.  
 
Who is actually deciding on the build, design, concept ? Valleyview has a beauty new rink, but in the summer the rink sits empty unable to use for anything really, the base is gravel ?? No for sight as to summer use for the rink. You can fork over a tonne of cash but not fully create a year round use for the center. Some major overhaul needs to be done within this city department, or at least some major questions. Could they not at least plant grass or sod the rink so it could actually be used in spring, summer and fall ?  
 
Edited by Zekeland, 2019-12-15 00:50:31

This is a sign of mismanagement.  
 
A small amount of annual budget wouldn’t have let it get run into the ground.

How many community centers do we need? According to the link Trevor provided there are 4 other centers within 2km that can fill the void of the closure of this center. Sure it is nice to have a center in every little neighbourhood but financially it doesn't make sense. Spending over 130+ thousand to fix the building again won't last another 40 years like someone mentioned. It will always need maintenance and repairs. I haven't seen one building last 40 years without needing something. The city is trying to get better utilization and reduce the number of centers we have. At some point it isn't viable to keep pumping money into something.

I couldn't find a history of the centre, so I did this up. I was surprised to find that it will be 73-years-old next week!  
 
https://westenddumplings.blogspot.com/2019/12/brandons-park-community-centre-to-be.html

The fact is we live in different times and have new requirements that need to be addressed. This isn't an overnight change to these community centers. This was a process in the making for fifty years. Ever noticed that almost all of the established centers predates 1970? Now what happened in the very early 1970's that pretty much put an end in building these community clubs? ...Was it the construction of the Keystone Center, (70) the Western Manitoba Centennial Auditorium (69) and the current City Hall (71), perhaps? The Keystone and the Auditorium was a game changer in how Brandon got together for social/community activities and with the open space with City Hall, everything in the matter of civic matters open to the public was now done there instead of meeting at the local neighbourhood halls. The construction boom in late 60's to the mid 70's had huge effects on how Brandon would operate public functions. More large centers build to accommodate larger groups and venues to serve an entire city rather than just a couple dozen city blocks. The same thing happened to community pools & splash parks came to an end when the YMCA (66) and the Sportsplex (75) came in and took over as well. Nothing more was going to be built within each neighbourhood (new or old) with regards to public spaces, except green spaces & playgrounds. Large scale structures were destine to accommodate the entire city, rather than smaller buildings scattered throughout the communities. In the long run, this concept works better and cheaper for the city. That became the "new normal" for Brandon for the next fifty years. However, age and building codes are now pressing against the existing community centers. They're all approaching a predicament of their future and even their very existence. It's a difficult situation... Repair, replace or get rid all together. Money and practicality seems to be the key issues with all of them? Park Community Center is the worst problematic one standing right now. From what I read, the structure is pretty much done. It wasn't much to begin with. A hodgepodge of separate structures put together on a small lot with many building codes exempted or grandfathered in because of the age. Getting it up to code would be next to impossible as it stands without nearly taking all apart. By that account, replacing would be a logical choice. But if we can't afford to restructure the floor, what chances can we have to budget a whole new building? And again, building codes will still haunt such a project. Parking, accessibility, occupancy restrictions and space will produce challenges in making it worth a viable endeavor for the city to invest back into a single community. ...And do we do this every time with other neighbourhood centers?  
 
Personally, I feel that these charming older neighbourhoods were lucky to have them as long as they did. A huge part were the selfless volunteers who kept them going for generations. I "tip my hat" to them with admiration and respect to those past and presently giving themselves to a worthy cause. I am envious that we don't have a center and such devoted folks within walking distance of our home. Granted, we've got a lot more in our area than the new neighbourhoods (wide curbed streets with full sidewalks, mail service, city bus routes, real parks/playgrounds, schools, stores, ect...). But, I still wish we had a rink and a hall. However, I know that costs and manpower are always going to be the final deciding factor. That's it in a nutshell... The city can't afford fixing or updating it anymore. Let alone, replace them.  
 
So what now? If the public sector for support/funds has dried up... The only choice is private. It's done often in the US. Time to approach individuals, local business and corporate community support for donations. It'll be tough and long dragged out, but there's no alternative. I would suggest to keep the committee together, but allow the city to pull down and clear the site. While that happens, the group will need to focus on vacant storefront spaces downtown to lease. There's so much opportunity to snag a deal there. Just as much floor space or more than of what they have now. A few tweaks by either landlord or volunteers, some materials donated and poof... a community hall is created. The city could cover the utilities and some of the moving and start up costs like public restrooms upgrades. I see this as a win, win for everyone. Landlord gets a tenant and has someone heating the place. The city gets the downtown a little life in it again. And folks can utilize the same thing that would have been available at the old location (maybe even enjoy it more). Won't be permanent and may be outside of the immediate area, but it would work.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.