Discussions

I am sure that there is an extremely higher number of humans on this planet than cows. Humans pass gas and burp too. Maybe you should suggest a population reduction for humans. Every living creature naturally passes gas, it is a by product of digestion from eating of all things... vegetables. So from what you suggest, we can start with vegetarians. Time to outlaw cabbage, broccoli, cucumbers, brussel sprouts, ect.  
The carbon footprint is so small from livestock in this world. If you really want to make a difference, try eliminating everything in your life that contributes to carbon emissions. Oh ya that would be everything.  
 
Here is a challenge. List things in your life that doesn't contribute to the carbon footprint in any way.  
 
Animals were here long before us, They just don't multiply out of control.

The animals that we are using for meat consumption have multiplied greatly because we are breeding them for our consumption... If 7 billion people are consuming meat and dairy, it would stand to reason that there has to be a great amount of animals in unnatural amounts to feed these people  
My main target is mass industrial farming ...In addition to the greater amount of methane from the cows, there is also an impact of pollution as there is energy consumption required to farm the land of the food to feed the cows, then there is transport of the feed, housing the Animals in industrial sized barns, not to mention the excrement waste from the animals and the runoff of this waste into our clean water ... There is so much to be gained with the reduction of meat and dairy consumption... People need to be aware on a deeper level of what they are putting in their mouths for a moment of pleasure and the effect and impact it has on our environment...we can subside on food that is Nutritious that doesn’t require so much taxing on the world energy sources  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 09:54:55

According to Smithonian.com :  
 
Between 100 B.C. and A.D. 1600, methane emissions rose by nearly 31 million tons per year. According to the most recent data, the United States alone generates some 36 million tons per year.  
 
As the population grows humans eat more meat. We are carnivores. What's killing us is junk food like soda, chips, french fries, sugar treats, booze, illegal drugs, medications, smoking and on and on. Not whole foods like dairy, produce and meat!  
 
We all fart whether we are vegetarians or meat eaters.  
Cow are herbivores and fart too!  
 
Edited by valia, 2019-09-24 09:56:55

This is where I disagree, we are not meat eaters, if we were meant to be meat eaters we would be designed to out run animals and Hunt our prey... This is the job of lions and cats and meat eater animals  
 
have you seen the mouth and the teeth of meat eating animals and how these animals are built? We don’t even have teeth that are designed to tear off meat The majority of our mouth (molars) is designed to chew down fibrous food Such as plants  
 
This lecture by Milton Mills, MD very beneficial and informative on this subject: https://youtu.be/kGDYydkvg3E  
 
another one of his presentations. https://youtu.be/sXj76A9hI-o  
 
Also I do agree yes cows fart too and they fart and belch A LOT ..they have four stomachs they are eating continuously and that’s all they do all day is fart and belch  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 10:03:07

Methane is talked about everywhere. So much so that I believe it's a conservative talking point since cows seem to be brought up every time carbon is.  
 
I always here, "oh yeah? well do eat red meat because blah blah blah"  
 
The guardian had this 21 hours ago:  
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/shortcuts/2019/sep/23/should-meat-be-banned-save-planet-new-laws-environment  
 
Do a google search, lots of people are working on the methane issue. Two biggest approaches (that don't involve everyone going vegetarian) currently are modifying feed (seems that cows that eat seaweed produce a lot less methane) or genetically modifying animals so they produce almost 0 methane.

Human evolution has changed our species. We used to hunt and prey and rip animals apart. Now we buy meat at Sobeys. No need for pointy teeth.  
 
Over population is the issue here! Not farting.  
 
Edited by valia, 2019-09-24 10:15:50

You can be a vegan. I'll do my part as a third party vegan . By eating the cow that are the salad.  
 
Edited by PG13, 2019-09-24 10:24:54

Without reading any of the previous comments (may as well be upfront with it), it's not one or the other, it's both. In fact, methane is an even more potent GG than Co2.  
 
While the methane element shouldn't be ignored, one must also consider the energy used in growing food for this cattle. Which of course leads to the energy use and pollution in raising, preparing and distributing this product to market. I will grant that energy used on refrigeration isn't entirely removable (even greens need to stay cool to be the way they are after travelling from California or Mexico).

I’m not trying to push any agenda, I’m just perplexed as to why I don’t hear it mentioned in Canadian politics aon the news when they’re describing the environmental crisis.  
And why arent there policies being implemented to help educate the masses on this issue and suggestions as to how to decrease the emissions in this sector?  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 10:36:48

There would be less methane if you closed your mouth too but hey, we’re all allowed our opinions.

Yes I said everything above that you said, although you said it more eloquently!  
I agree theres nasty emissions from a lot sources, just perplexed why meat production isn’t verbally mentioned as one of the contributors  
in the talks about environmental crisis  
I’d like to hear those words mentioned in the political parties speeches or on the news when they are talking about environmental issues!  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 10:35:42

We all need to talk about it from different angles in order to reach a workable agreement that benefits the most people... I’m not only thinking of this for myself but for the future of the young people going forward

yes humans are suppose to be so smart but , yet we keep breeding and create world problems .

Politicians don't talk about cattle farts because even they know it is irrelevant. Eliminating all cattle will lower methane emissions approx. 1/10 of a percent. Now the land that they grazed on will be converted to either cultivated farm land or turn into urban development. Both options will increase carbon emissions vastly in comparison to the minor methane savings.  
Take some time google the subject. you will be embarrassed to find out the sewage from your neighborhood creates more methane as it breaks down than all the burping and farting cows at a 1000 head cattle operation.  
On a side note what does it matter if a political party actually mentions it. When have any of them actually followed through with what they promise (that doesn't i:nclude another tax)?

I believe that the methane produced from Livestock / dairy industry and the carbon emissions from the whole production process Attributes to more of a damage percentage.  
According to the Food and agricultural organization of United Nations the global emissions from livestock production contributes to 14.5% of emissions contributing to greenhouse gases  
 
As well, all of the effluent toxicity (manure) nothing good happening with that and the GMO feed they are growing to feed the animals, pesticides used choking out the surrounding waters ie algae blooms. ..all of this preventable! ... I believe the land in turn should be used for the production of plant-based foods to feed the masses  
 
also, Not to mention all the diseases that are attributable to eating this way would also reduce the medical dollars that are being spent every year  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 11:44:59

They mention it all the time. For example, if you've been paying any attention at all to US politics, you have to have heard about the "Green New Deal". If you haven't, the Green New Deal is the moronic proposal being pushed by the Democrat Party. Essentially a government take over of every part of everyone's daily lives. Yes, they even want to plan and control your diet. They are all calling for the end of meat. This is actually quite funny, seeing as at their recent Democrat rally in Iowa a few days ago, they served up thousands of steaks, cheeseburgers and other barbequed meats, all cooked with a fossil fuel named propane, no doubt. They have stated, though, that they want to get rid of all cattle because cows are destroying the planet. No more beef. What a joke!  
 
I wish I had a dollar for every time some scaremonger claimed that the world was going to end!  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2019-09-24 12:54:56

When you come on a social site to present a problem try to present an unbiased opinion, which means doing a bit of reasearch. When looking into the methane problem you will see that they attribute around 27% to agriculture, when you look at that number you have to break that number down to sources. One of the largest producers in the ag sector comes from rice paddies, and rice is one of the largest consumed grains by humans.  
Really no need to go on.

Humans will have to eat bugs eventually.

Is true re rice paddy’s ....At least got you searching websites and got this on the forefront of your mind...statistically wouldn’t have come up with that unless you had completed a search.  
Also , is this your argument then to continue consuming meat? The industrial agriculture is also undoubtedly contributing to the environmental crisis AND health crisis.  
I’m not talking about the rice paddy fields in the world, but now that you mention it we should ALL know exactly who are the biggest contributors to the greenhouse gassses so that collectively we can make educated decisions and be in support of all efforts in all areas to decrease the emissions we as a human population have a duty to do!  
We got ourselves into this mess now it’s time to work backwards to get ourselves out of it ....consuming meat at every meal is not necessary to survive... it is one of the little things that we can do to help in the mass efforts  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 13:14:28

Another vegan. Eating meat does not make you sick. Premade foods, candy, fast foods, cigarettes, booze, drugs, etc is what makes you sick. This whole thing about cows is a distraction for bigger pollution issues. It is a band wagon that is easy to jump on, so that is what it is used for. Just like plastic shopping bags, straws and utensils. Take a look around you at the plastic in our world. The bags and straws are a distraction from larger issues. At least the hot air you are spewing warmed up the atmosphere, the clouds disappeared and the sun came out. Than you for that.

How about you go into your garage, shut all the doors and windows, start your car, and stay there for the night. I'll go into my garage, bring in 20 cows, 20 sheep and 20 horses (apparently I've got a big garage) shut all the doors and windows and stay there all night. In the morning you'd be dead, while I'd be stinky and warm, but just fine. It seems like we have bigger fish to fry than cow farts...

That's exactly what I was getting at in a previous comment. Too many people watch David Suzuki and his bias opinion, as well as other well funded people with opinions. All you have to do is a little research before starting a discussion.  
At the same time you can't believe "experts" with an agenda. It doesn't matter who you are, your opinion can always be changed with money. A paid professional opinion is worthless. It will only reflect the views of whoever is writing the cheque.  
I can find one article that states that cows produce 25% of the methane in the atmosphere. Another article says less than 1%.  
Personally, before I would worry about the methane from a cow burping, I would think of the methane coming from land fills and composting (yes decomposition creates methane also).  
For someone to be so narrow minded as to attack an industry that feeds billions of people before they even mention all the other preventable sources makes me think you have an agenda.  
The long and short of it is that taxes will not fix this, neither will eliminating animals as a food source.  
There is no coming back from where we are as humans. Population = demand. Food is a needed to live. Eliminating natural food with genetically modified is not healthy, but it is impossible to naturally grow enough of anything to feed everyone.  
Leaves us in quite the dilemma. The only way to stop global climate change is to reduce the amount of mouths this planet has to feed. Only then will there be a balance, but since there is no chance of mass genocide I guess we all have to depend on our government being able to pay off mother nature with the money from the carbon tax

I would like you to provide the rest of the percentages from this study, and how they got the numbers. When you go to large cities like Los Angeles, and can see the smog cloud from 60 miles away (yes I have been there Many times). You say dairy production is a bigger contributor of greenhouse gasses than all the biggest cities in the world? How about the transport industry that delivers everything you have to the stores you bought it from? Active volcanos? Like I said percentages change with agendas and paycheques.  
 
Now you also say to use the land to produce plant based foods. So now you want more equipment burning diesel fuel to be able to feed you?  
plant based food like the beyond meat burgers? have you ever looked at the synthetic ingredient list in those?  
 
And if vegetarian is the way to go, why are all the veggie burgers beef flavored

If I could go back and rephrase my initial post, I would!  
I’m not denying nor disputing the fact that other factors and other conditions are at play in the world that are also contributing to greenhouse gases  
 
I just don’t see the mention of a plan to reduce the overall negative impact that industrial meat and dairy farming is having on the environment and feel people aren’t making better choices in that department as it’s not at the forefront of mandates.  
A movement towards more plant-based , which I passionately feel and believe would help with the environment and peoples health will thus have a trickle effect into a good direction.....  
 
Canada food guide was revised this year..it is 100% obvious the guidelines are also moving into that direction  
 
Also, it is definitely being heard by the food producers, because they are providing new product in the stores that are feeding a new demand ie beyond burgers impossible burgers etc. So that is good to see!  
 
Plus, potatoes and beans and incredibly easy to grow and people can subsist on diet high in potatoes the longitudinall China Study strong proof of this ...also takes less energy and water to grow both..  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 14:27:46

Yes you’re right, my lack of knowledge and not very good presentation on that account.  
 
Edited by BROCLAEVE, 2019-09-24 14:32:26

All grazing land would not be converted to growing food for vegans. A lot of grazing land is only good for that, grazing.  
 
Spots are bought on the food pyramid.

My thoughts...horses & dogs fart way more than cows and most horses are useless pasture pets...they are not working animals anymore. Both types of animals are merely for pleasure in the majority of cases anymore, and there are many out there.  
 
Secondly, if there is actually a true problem with cow belches & farts (and any other animal that passes gas), why not change their diet to be natural grass pasture - in the case of grazing animals anyway - and stop feeding them soy, corn, unnatural supplements and the like that makes them fat or produces more milk, but sacrifices the quality & nutrition for profit?  
 
I think of the "off gassing" of cows this way. If [i]we[/i] eat foods that we aren't meant to eat (meat & raw dairy farmed naturally & processed minimally is healthy...I am talking about synthetic, processed, & also GMO - as it would never be a thing if left to natural processes), we bloat and so then "off gas" as well. Everybody does it! If a person eats real whole foods raised properly & food that is minimally processed, the body knows [i]how[/i] to process it more efficiently...so less "off gassing," less solid waste as a bonus, and healthier people too.  
 
If cows are on pasture, the land is healthier and fertilizing is more complete in nutrient value. There is also less air pollution from them then from the silage-fed, livestock yard and cooped-in-barn animals of all types.  
 
Could it be that everything should start to consume a real food type of diet instead of all the other garbage, & be raised naturally on the land, in the sunshine and with fresh air...the way they were meant to be?  
 
If you want to bring land use into it too, less bush should be pushed, more trees should be planted, creating healthier air, soils, better water management, & habitat.  
 
If you want to create any change, you have to strip all of the garbage/dressing/controversy/propaganda & greed away and trace it back to the core issue. Start from the beginning and build from there.

First off, when topics like this come up people immediately put their backs up and become extremely hostile. We should all be willing to hear both sides of a topic and discuss it in a constructive and open minded way.  
 
Regarding methane and carbon, we need to solve many complex problems across ALL industries to improve our current and future positions with respect to the environment.  
 
When talking specifically about the agricultural industry there is merit to the argument that the production of meat has a negative impact on our environment and on peoples health. Many of the massive commercial farms produce an inferior product and the health impacts of eating low quality meat is huge. We are taking animals and making them grow faster than the normal rate, to the point where they cant even walk normally, pumping them full of antibiotics and drugs, giving them horrible living conditions and then eating them. No thanks!  
 
Also, there is no health benefit or reason to consume the amount of meat we currently consume. There was a time when people ate meat only once or twice a week. My father grew up in Europe on a farm in the 40s and they ate meat once a week if lucky. They didn't have access to grocery stores and only ate animals that were ready for slaughter. Nowadays people eat meat every meal and often more than 3 times a day! Its overkill and the over consumption of meat is a driving force behind the health problems many folks have and the negative impacts on the environment. Even if people just reduced their meat intake and ate more of a plant based diet we would see improvements with peoples health and we would see improvements with the environment. This is a very complicated and sensitive issue for sure and there is no one solution. For every solution we think we have found we probably create a few more problems.  
 
We should stop and ask ourselves where our food is coming from and what impact it is having on our health and environment. If the food you choose comes from a sustainable and ethical source than eat it. I personally have chosen to move to a plant based diet however support folks who choose to eat meat so long as its from a sustainable source. There are numerous studies that show the negative impacts of eating too much meat and dairy on the environment and on our health. I encourage people to have an open mind, research this topic and make healthy choices for themselves and the planet.  
 
Here are some excellent resources to get started:  
 
Dr Mcdougall  
 
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/education/health-science/hot-topics/nutrition-topics/protein-meat-poultry/  
 
 
Dr Michael Klaper - talks about how our ancestors ate mostly starch based diets as opposed to meat. Very interesting read.  
 
https://www.doctorklaper.com/paleo

When you talk about the "overall" negative impact of industrial meat and dairy production, I have 2 questions.  
 
1. In your mind, is there a difference between industrial and non industrial?  
 
2. Is it your position that there is absolutely no positive output from meat and dairy production?