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Is Islam A Violent Religion

Is Islam A Violent Religion

CitizenE
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CitizenE
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Posts: 45

Is Islam A Violent Religion
6/13/2016 at 11:54 PM

The thread regarding the Orlando shooting has been derailed - in part because of me. I've apologized for that and do so again.

I'm starting this one so that we, as a community, can air our feelings regarding radical Islam and Islamophobia.

I am a straight, white male. I do not propose to speak for any group or community: they can speak well enough for themselves. I speak for me.

I've never read the Q'ran and I've certainly never read it in Arabic. I have read the bible - KJV.

Islam is no more a violent or extreme religion than Christianity. Muslims are no more inherently violent or extreme than Christians.

The violence attributed to Islam is largely a reaction to the actions of western Christian nations.

The vast majority of Muslims are people no different than any others. They want to be left in peace, they want to raise their families and see their children do better than they did.

There are some that feel differently and those are the "radicalized" ones but they are blips on the radar. They do not represent Islam as a whole nor do they represent majority Islam.

They are no different than Christians, Hindus, Budhists or any other religion. They are people.

This is an introductory statement and so I am not going to go into providing cites or anything else at the moment. I am stating my position and I welcome rebuttals.

I hope this will be reasoned discussion that will result in a better understanding between the various faiths and communities.

So, be it resolved that Islam is no more inherently violent than any other religion and those who commit atrocities in the name of Islam should be seen as outliers as opposed to representative.

E
NA
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NA
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No
6/14/2016 at 4:14 AM

Just like gun people say its not guns, but the people who use them who kill people, same with religion fundamentalist interpret the Koran a lot different, same with Christians just like the Muslims they fight among them selves more than anything, blood has been spilled a lot, but the Christians have lost a lot of power and don't rule anymore, so they have had to become more user friendly and lenient adapt or die, where as Muslims fundy's are ruling the roost and taking them backwards I posted a picture of Afghan girls in the 80s, and after the Taliban took over same religion different interpretation its a pretty drastic change, same religion.
Garret
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 623

Garret
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Posts: 623

when
6/14/2016 at 6:40 AM

When a religion has passages in its holy text commanding you to kill non believers and its prophet married a 6 year old, it's hard for me to give it any credit. That being said I think Christianity is full of just as many lies, however Islam is definitely an inherently violent religion. For an honest answer to that question look at all the countries with an Islam majority and there is your answer

For some reading on the passages that promote the violence against non believers
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx
Orion's-Belt
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 579

Orion's-Belt
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 579

Religion
6/14/2016 at 6:45 AM

Personally. I believe in God. One God. Up there doing his thing. Not ten. Just one. But I think religions were created way back when as a way to eventual divide us all. How many people die in the name of religion. To prove there God is the superior God. More people have died for religion in our history combined then any thing else ( except maybe the Black Plague. But who really knows.).

Aside from all that. I also personally think the reason why we here so much about "radical Islam" is cause the western media wants to blow up radical Islam so much so it makes the people of the western country's so easily brainwashed to hate for all of Islam as a whole. This is terrible. They are manipulating the news to make islam the worst thing in the world so we all turn against Islam to give them the next reason to go to war. You can see the tensions building with your very own eyes. All this is for a bigger plan to eventually put us back into a global war state.

That's just my two cents.
70`s guy
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 451

70`s guy
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 451

I
6/14/2016 at 7:34 AM

Look around the world today and see much hate and killing in the name of religion and the religion that violent people claim as their own when committing crimes almost always is "Islam". CitizenE is in denial as per his posts on another thread.
Another killing last night in France by a jihadist in the name of Islam. There is absolutely no doubt that Islam is a violent religion. Are there good and peacefull muslims out there, absolutely, but I believe that they're scared to speak out. I also believe that Islam does not promote freedom among it's followers. It's a very strict religion and it is littered with bullies. I also believe that the moderate muslims and there are many are afraid to stand up and denouce ISIS and hold marches and denouce terror and support our freedoms and the western way of life. I have muslim friends and I once asked on of them why they hate us so much. I was perplexed as they are immigrating here in droves. She paused and responded that it was our liberal lifestyle that they hated. Our clothes are too liberal, we are promiscuous and not family oriented, etc. I told her that she was right, we are very liberal,but that we are free. I then told her that Muslims are quick to judge our lifestyles, but what about their beliefs that a man can have as many wives as he can support, but the woman can't even leave the house without an escort. She paused and just shrugged her shoulders. I fear the future as the jihadists numbers are growing in numbers all around us. These attacks in the western world has become the "new normal".
It would be nice to see the muslim community organize and champion a demonstration against terror, but I think something is stopping them. Could it be that there are radical muslims bullying their beliefs on others in most mosques? Whyelse are most imams and clerics not standing up against the violence? Where's the fatma against ISIS?
don brown
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4956

don brown
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4956

Question
6/14/2016 at 7:51 AM

Muhammad Ali was a Muslim, did he promote hatred or love of fellow humans? I do agree that there is much fear among people when it comes to the Muslim extremists, they will kill anyone, and what would be easier to infiltrate, society in general or the Muslim community.
The question should be why so many people chose to follow the extremist idea, but an answer to that question could be, for the same reason people follow Donald Trump. People may say that I'm way off base on this thought, but when people think that they are being left out, and figure that everyone is doing better than themselves they seem to be easy to get them to follow radicals or extremists.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Hope
6/14/2016 at 8:53 AM

My hope is that it's possible to have this discussion...

- amongst people who fully respect the difference between the words "some" and "all"
- amongst not even a single person who feels that they have a license to make an uninformed, assumption-laden, cherry-picked, disparaging remark about one religion just because they make an uninformed, assumption-laden, cherry-picked, disparaging remark about another separate religion
- within the context of current times and knowing that certain types of despicable actions are coming from/inspired by a very small part of a very large population with in large part the intent of provoking a certain type of reaction
- amongst folks who are willing to hold someone accountable when they confidently make provocative statements based on assumptions and from shaky factual ground
- amongst folks with the strength to admit that it's okay if they don't fully understand something and to in stead ask questions and seek information from many many sources while listening with an open mind

Written over a year ago, the link below makes some excellent points on the aspect of human nature that attracts some to commit horribly divisive acts (regardless of what "tribe" the associate with).... and why we should pause before we "hold everyone in any group responsible for the actions of the worst its members":
http://bigthink.com/risk-reason-and-reality/saying-all-muslims-are-responsible-for-islamic-extremism-ignores-the
stonepicker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 203

stonepicker
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 203

Toxic
6/14/2016 at 9:09 AM

It's a toxic religion, it's a religion of oppression. Women in muslim countries have very few rights and are treated as second class citizens. Islam breeds hatred, even the moderate muslims want to change the way we do things in north america, from school xmas programs to girls and boys doing phys ed. together. They seem to have no willingness to abide by north american rules.
happycamper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 635

happycamper
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 635

different religions and faiths
6/14/2016 at 9:12 AM

A quote from a John Lennon song...

"Imagine no religion"
Torque
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 298

Torque
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 298

.
6/14/2016 at 12:26 PM

Are all muslims inherently violent? No

Is quran and it's teachings inherently violent? I think Yes, very much so.

I commonly hear apologists try to argue context and interpretation, but the extremist muslims aren't the ones adding caveats to "soften" their holy book, they're reading and accepting what is plainly written on it's pages. In fact, it's a bit curious to me why they're even called "extremists" because from what I can tell, they're following their holy book fairly accurately.

The very fact that a book that's supposedly written by our supreme creator can be interpreted ten different ways by ten different people IS THE PROBLEM.

Think about it this way, Hypothetically, if you were an alien that arrived on earth in the distant future when humanity has died out and the first thing you found was a quran, what would you think of it? Would you be inclined to disregard passages like the one that says that if a woman is raped she must marry her attacker? Would you be inclined to explain away or "add context" to some of the reprehensible ideas within it?

No, you wouldn't because it's only in our current moral landscape, now that we know better, do we try to "add" morality to this absurd book in order to lend it credence and not offend it's worshipers.

People need to understand that people and their religions are two separate things. We need to be able to criticize bad ideas, and in the words of Sam Harris, the quran and islam are the motherload of bad ideas. You have to do alot of work to make it a "religion of peace".
70`s guy
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 451

70`s guy
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 451

Shebear
6/14/2016 at 12:54 PM

So sorry to hear of your experiences. I know for many muslim men, women are considerred property and your experiences certainly confirm that.
I wish that the Canadian government would ban burkas and niqabs as they are a strong sign of oppression against women. I'd like Canada to stand up for those that can't speak for themselves and defend themselves. Canada should first and foremost be a land where men and women are equal and where human rights trumps culture and religious beliefs. Unfortunately our charter of rights gives more weight to culture and religion than to equality.
Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

ALL fundamentalism is oppressive
6/14/2016 at 2:37 PM

I notice that there is a lot of attention given to burkas etc as oppressive against women, yes Christian nuns sometimes wear a similar habit, and fundamentalist orthodox jews shave the heads of married women and they wear similar headscarves. Women in other fundamentalist religions are expected to dress "modestly", this may mean in skirts, fully covered arms/legs/ cleavage, or something else. ALL fundamentalist groups seem to have in common the oppression of women. Also, the oppression or criminalization of homosexuality.

I noticed something else that is really troubling to me, a lot of mention of muslim and white, or western.
There are a lot of white people who follow islam, and there are plenty of brown or eastern people who follow christianity, judaism, and other religions such as hinduism, buddhism, sihkism, etc. Being muslim doesn't mean brown, and being white doesn't mean christian. I find that it's an extension of white racism in north america to generalize Muslim people as brown people from another country, when in fact they are represented in all ethnic groups and many born in canada just like any canadian.

As for violence, there is plenty of violence in the mythology and teachings of most religions. To say that Islam is a violent religion, well I'd like to know what to compare it to that ISN'T violent! The bible is filled with examples of violence of all kinds, that doesn't mean that Jews and Christians take from that that we should all be smiting each other or whatever, and with Islam it's just the same.
JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

Well
6/14/2016 at 5:17 PM

For sure there is a segment of Muslums, however small that seem to be more violent and murderous than any other group currently. While there are some that openly advocate hate and intollerance, nobody but the Muslums seem to be into the beheadings, bombings and murders in the name of religion. It just seems like life isn't as precious or something
standard standard h8r
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 413

standard standard h8r
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 413

Great post, Tater
6/14/2016 at 5:26 PM

Thank you.

I was starting to think we should rename our community after Bagotville, Quebec, by replacing the "a" with an "i".

You are correct, there are plenty of verses in the Old Testament that suggest that violence and killing are reasonable responses. There have been some horrible atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, as there have been with other religions.

You are also correct that the colour of one's skin does not denote one's religion. It is just too easy to lump all of "those people" into designated groups. To me, that shows an inability, or unwillingness, to think rationally.
Garret
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 623

Garret
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 623

it
6/14/2016 at 6:21 PM

It isn't a matter of race, it is a matter of Islam fundamentalists being violent
Cee Jay 55
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4151

Cee Jay 55
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4151

Cough cough
6/14/2016 at 6:33 PM

Spanish Inquisition

Residential Schools

both were creations of the christian faith in the name of "God"/Jesus.
Garret
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 623

Garret
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Posts: 623

for
6/14/2016 at 6:59 PM

For the record I think all religions are evil tools used to control the masses lol.

Religion is the opiate of the people.
Roundhousekick
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3

Roundhousekick
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3

Well
6/14/2016 at 8:19 PM

Well, I don't really know what to say. I am not a fan of religion, and it has outdated itself, completely rudimentary.
I am new to Canada and I certainly understand there is a reason this country achieved prosperity and I integrate with local mentality, but I was born in a muslim family (although I'm white, just a remark, since most people here think that muslim is a race, lol).
I am an atheist now, but my father is muslim. I often skype with my parents, and he is deeply distressed with what is going on. My parents were shocked with Orlando massacre. My dad condemns any violence, he is a doctor himself, never hurt any person in his life. By the way, he is married to my mother, who is christian and has her own beliefs.
The question is, how do people interpret religion. My father told me that his grandfathers were imams, and they knew Quran by heart, but they never hurt anyone. Since my dad read Quran he told me there is nothing commanded about killing people, because it's haram (sin). What is mentioned, is that you have to defend your motherland from any invaders (which most muslim interpret as infidels/"West", but the reality is that muslims mostly kill muslims).
The last thing I want to mention is that my parents are both NOT homophobic and fully support individualism, different sexuality and choice.
With that being said, I just want to remind everyone that muslim does not equal to terrorist, but sadly, most of the modern terrorists are muslim.
Anyways, please don't marginalize or exaggerate things. There is a certain pattern to this world, and the Islam being a "young" religion (somewhat 1400 years?) is maybe in its medieval stage.
I don't know if it will ever end (I'm a realist), but think rational before you accuse all people of something.
P.S.: If Islam was a violent religion we'd be all dead. Look up how many people are muslim in this world.
JustanotherNobody
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JustanotherNobody
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Pick your battles
6/14/2016 at 9:11 PM

I am blown away by religion. Religion is a generic term that every person on the planet has a view or an opinion on, whether you believe, or disbelieve. Whether your a Muslim, Christian, Buddhist or Atheist, you will all stand whole heartedly behind your beliefs. There is no hope of ever willingly accepting an opposing view or opinion when it comes to religion. You will all fight for your beliefs till your dying day. So I say, everybody is nuts.
Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Enfyre
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Posts: 383

Well
6/14/2016 at 10:38 PM

The Muslims who are out beheading infidels and stoning adulterers and apostates and other mayhem are perfectly adhering to Islamic protocol as prescribed or I should say DEMANDED by the quran, I suppose one might say those are true Muslims.
So yes, TRUE Islam is violent.

As in all religions, the vast majority of people belong to the religion of their parents(or at least culture/country), and in every case, its the one TRUE religion (what a coinincidence..).

So there's always going to be a lot of people who Identify as belonging to a religion, because they were told growing up that they are Muslim, Hindu, Christian, etc, but don't actually fully know the theology or really much deep understanding, or even adhere to the teachings on a day to day basis.

I think these type of people would tend to be the "peaceful" Muslims.

Word Bird
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 246

Word Bird

Joined: Feb 2010

Posts: 246

Non-believers

6/15/2016 at 12:37 AM

Garret said "When a religion has passages in its holy text commanding you to kill non believers and its prophet married a 6 year old, it's hard for me to give it any credit. That being said I think Christianity is full of just as many lies, however Islam is definitely an inherently violent religion. For an honest answer to that question look at all the countries with an Islam majority and there is your answer

For some reading on the passages that promote the violence against non believers
www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx "

The bible does in fact contain passages that advocate violence against non-believers. Check out Deuteronomy 13 and 17, or Numbers 31. God commands the faithful to kill non-believers and those that tempt others to become non-believers.

However, the bible, like the Qur'an, is very long, complicated, and often self-contradictory. I'm sure if you looked hard enough, you could find a justification for pretty much anything. The meaning is really determined by who's doing the reading (or preaching): whether you go in looking for hate and hellfire or love and acceptance, you'll find exactly what you wanted.

I'm not convinced that any religion is more violent than another. I know there are people who use religion as a reason to do terrible things, people who use religion as a reason to do great things, and people who do great and terrible things without religion at all. Overall: some people are great and some are terrible regardless of religion.

Edited by Word Bird, 2016-06-15 00:49:53

Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Common to other religions
6/15/2016 at 6:36 AM

Going to religious schools or learning a faith when you're a child is common to all religions. Kids are made to go to church, or Christian schools, that's pretty normal.

I don't give Islam a pass if people act like jerks, like I haven't noticed Muslims in Canada burning our flag, have you? If so where?

As for RCMP uniforms and religious freedom, there are approved versions of RCMP uniform that respect religious traditions, what's the problem with that? That's our national police, I expect them to protect my charter rights such as freedom of religion, and I expect them to have their charter rights respected equally as well. What does it take away from anyone else to slow people their rights and their dignity? I fail yo see the point of this o:bjection. Britain colonized in India and there were already versions of British military uniforms from India before 1900, this is part of commonwealth.
Rafter D
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 135

Rafter D
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 135

crazy
6/15/2016 at 10:00 AM

https://www.openbible.info/topics/slaves

https://biblicalgenderroles.com/2015/10/03/7-ways-to-discipline-your-wife/

https://www.openbible.info/topics/gay

I don't agree with any of this but yet if I wasn't an atheist and decided to respect everyone regardless of their sexual preference, colour, etc. I would be expected to follow those rules as a Christian. I gave up religion as all religions promote hate. Thousands of years ago there were no police etc. How did Kings and Queens control large populations to avoid Chaos? They made up religions and put fear in people. God is always watching, they were told, so people behaved even in the absence of the royalty.

I don't care if people believe in God etc. But bashing other religions without looking at your own is hypocrite I think.

I was born, baptized and raised catholic until I got old enough to understand.

I like the earlier message about "Imagine a world with no religion" WOW life would be awesome.

This doesn't mean you can't be spiritual or give to your neighbours in different ways.
Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Youtube
6/15/2016 at 10:14 AM

well you can probably find videos of Christians doing all sorts of bad things too. I don't have any intention of going down the rabbit hole of youtube, it's full of all kinds of things taken out of context, and you can find justification for anything there. England can't show it's flag? when? where? I don't know what you're referring to, when England is hiding its flag.

As for flag burning, maybe there are people whose villages have been burned by US or UK forces, would it be better for them to burn a flag to show their disapproval, or to take up guns?????
JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

Residential Schools?
6/15/2016 at 1:02 PM

Cee Jay 55 said "Spanish Inquisition

Residential Schools

both were creations of the christian faith in the name of "God"/Jesus. "

Seriously this has nothing to do with whether Islam is violent. Were residential schools a bad idea, and was violence perpitrated against some who were placed in them? Yes, of course. But you need to keep in mind that they were genuinely set up at the time to do what they thought would be most beneficial to society and the students. They were wrong and mis-guided, but this can in no way be compared to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam. Not even close. They aren't trying to educate non-believers, they're murdering them.
Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

Tater
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 372

There is plenty of violence to go around
6/15/2016 at 1:21 PM

Residential schools were violent, the spanish inquisition was violent, witch hunts were violent, druids and mayans had human sacrifice, christians engaged in violent warfare in the holy land, I don't think Islam as a religion is any more violent than others, in general.

As for people wanting flags taken down? well folks have to use good sense, if some a*hole tells me to take down my flag, (or to cover my hair or my face) in my country, where I know my rights, I'm not going to do it. I probably wouldn't even notice lol
What do I care if someone thinks some other person is going to be offended by our flag? I'm prepared to defend my patriotism, which is absolutely not racist or anything

Cee Jay 55
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4151

Cee Jay 55

Joined: Apr 2009

Posts: 4151

6/15/2016 at 3:58 PM

JackAzz said "

Cee Jay 55 said "Spanish Inquisition

Residential Schools

both were creations of the christian faith in the name of "God"/Jesus. "

Seriously this has nothing to do with whether Islam is violent. Were residential schools a bad idea, and was violence perpitrated against some who were placed in them? Yes, of course. But you need to keep in mind that they were genuinely set up at the time to do what they thought would be most beneficial to society and the students. They were wrong and mis-guided, but this can in no way be compared to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam. Not even close. They aren't trying to educate non-believers, they're murdering them. "

Do some research - those children were brutalized by "Christians" in the name of "God"...

JackAzz
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1436

JackAzz

Joined: Jul 2008

Posts: 1436

Nope

6/15/2016 at 4:07 PM

Cee Jay 55 said "

JackAzz said "

Cee Jay 55 said "Spanish Inquisition

Residential Schools

both were creations of the christian faith in the name of "God"/Jesus. "

Seriously this has nothing to do with whether Islam is violent. Were residential schools a bad idea, and was violence perpitrated against some who were placed in them? Yes, of course. But you need to keep in mind that they were genuinely set up at the time to do what they thought would be most beneficial to society and the students. They were wrong and mis-guided, but this can in no way be compared to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam. Not even close. They aren't trying to educate non-believers, they're murdering them. "

Do some research - those children were brutalized by "Christians" in the name of "God"... "

"Some" children were brutalized by "some" individuals on their own accord, not as an act of God. I stand by my statement, comparing this to what Muslim extremists are doing is rediculous. I don't recall any rez school stories of decapitations and mass murders or lighting people on fire or calling for the murder of somebody for drawing a cartoon.

Cee Jay 55
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4151

Cee Jay 55

Joined: Apr 2009

Posts: 4151

Actually

6/15/2016 at 9:15 PM

JackAzz said "

Cee Jay 55 said "

JackAzz said "

Cee Jay 55 said "Spanish Inquisition

Residential Schools

both were creations of the christian faith in the name of "God"/Jesus. "

Seriously this has nothing to do with whether Islam is violent. Were residential schools a bad idea, and was violence perpitrated against some who were placed in them? Yes, of course. But you need to keep in mind that they were genuinely set up at the time to do what they thought would be most beneficial to society and the students. They were wrong and mis-guided, but this can in no way be compared to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam. Not even close. They aren't trying to educate non-believers, they're murdering them. "

Do some research - those children were brutalized by "Christians" in the name of "God"... "

"Some" children were brutalized by "some" individuals on their own accord, not as an act of God. I stand by my statement, comparing this to what Muslim extremists are doing is rediculous. I don't recall any rez school stories of decapitations and mass murders or lighting people on fire or calling for the murder of somebody for drawing a cartoon. "

You are cherry picking isolated incidents perpetrated by a small percentage of Muslims who happen to be extremists.

My examples are of widely accepted behaviour perpetrated or accepted by the majority of Christians: not extremists.

I wonder how you would feel if some Muslims came into your house when your were young, kidnapped you from your parents (with government and church sanction) and placed you in a giant building with hundreds of others who had the same thing done to them..... and then received punishment for not accepting their religion. Yeah, those residential schools were the "cats'''' ass".

Read this: http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/residential-schools/

Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2016-06-15 21:20:25

JackAzz
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JackAzz
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Posts: 1436

Cee Jay
6/15/2016 at 10:23 PM

You obviously have your own agenda here and aren't really interested in debating the topic at hand. I find your comparison pretty rediculous.

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