Discussions

Tater said ""Obama vetoed Keystone XL pipeline 5 or more times after its construction had been started and was passed by US congress.     Our Canadian economy has been tanking ever since due to massive down sizing in the oil industry as a result."     The downsizing in the oil industry was more due to historically low oil prices than anything else, common hazard of a resource based economy. Your statements are inaccurate. As for Saudis, Trump is kissing Saudi a$$, why on earth isn't Saudi Arabia on the list of banned countries of origin but Iran is??? Very possibly because Trump has business interests there.     Just because you want your uneducated jobs back here doesn't mean that anything that happens to get them is good. He's not good for us, who is US??? Billionaires??? That's who he's good for. He's a facist elite, a racist, misogynist sexual predator. That's not good for ME. "

A five-year ban on White House and congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service, is poison to Saudi Arabia's ability to influence from within the US congress. Trump just signed in that executive order.  
 
Hillary Clinton's emails revealed the 25+ million dollars their foundation received from Saudi Arabian diplomats in a pay for play bid on US oil imports. Koch bros also were contributing and were caught out through those emails. I'm not going to argue this with you, its going to come out on its own.  
 
You think Trump is supporting Saudi interests? you couldn't be more wrong. Read about Hilary's top aid during her campaign and what top officials have to say about her. - http://www.wnd.com/2016/11/security-officers-warn-of-huma-abedins-tie-to-saudis/

What Hilary Clinton has or has not done is totally irrelevant.  
Why would I go to a politically conservative american news and opinion website and online news aggregator to learn about Hilary (which is moot anyway, she's not the president, that's just a distraction)? That's like if I told you to go to a leftist or socialist media source. Ugh.  
 
Address Trump or don't quote me. I was talking about HIM not some other person who ran for office. Can you dispute the fact that he is a misogynist? That he is a racist? That he is a member of the elite ultra-rich totally separated from the normal american experience of life? He is a hater and spreader of hate.

Tater said "memberberries, Hitler didn't start out with genocide. He started by scapegoating one segment of society, instead of addressing social and economic ills directly. That is EXACTLY what Donald Drumpf does. Exactly. The things he says are not factual, his conclusions are not based on empirical evidence but on his own feelings and blaming others. He is at worst a liar with every intention of bringing in an era of reduced liberty for many segments of society and at best an ignorant tool of his betters. "

I completely understand how Hitler came to power. One of the first things he began doing was adding fluoride to the water to slow the cognition of the people he was targeting. (If you kept your teeth in your stomach i might understand.) But thats another discussion  
 
Trump has already taken VERY direct presidential action drafting and PUBLICLY signing his executive orders in front of the press and his staff, as opposed to how Obama passed executive orders with out the press or public exposure on holidays and bad weather long weekends with distraction. The contrasts could not be more obvious if you have the proper context to see it. Huge positive developments are being made, but these "Hitler" statements only serve to try and maximize the delusion of those who use social justice tactics to impose their agenda.  
 
Your completely wrong about any similarity between Trump and Hitler. You have no realistic argument here, its ridiculous and troubling at the same time.  
 
Edited by memberberries, 2017-01-31 14:42:03

Tater said "What Hilary Clinton has or has not done is totally irrelevant.   Why would I go to a politically conservative american news and opinion website and online news aggregator to learn about Hilary (which is moot anyway, she's not the president, that's just a distraction)? That's like if I told you to go to a leftist or socialist media source. Ugh.     Address Trump or don't quote me. I was talking about HIM not some other person who ran for office. Can you dispute the fact that he is a misogynist? That he is a racist? That he is a member of the elite ultra-rich totally separated from the normal american experience of life? He is a hater and spreader of hate. "

Your arguments are based on your opinion of misogyny or racism. Prove to me that he IS???  
 
I brought up Clinton Foundations relationship to Saudi Arabia because its EXACTLY what you were pointing at Trump. You can't have it both ways.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306990-trump-appeared-to-register-eight-companies-in-saudi-arabia  
 
'During a rally on August 21, the day Trump created four of those companies, he said he gets along well with Saudi Arabia.  
 
"They buy apartments from me," Trump said during the Alabama rally. "They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.”  
 
In January of this year, Trump said on Fox News he "would want to protect Saudi Arabia.  
 
"I would want to protect Saudi Arabia," he said during the interview. "But Saudi Arabia is going to have to help us economically. They were making, before the oil went down ... they were making $1 billion a day.”  
 
During his presidential campaign, the president-elect often called out his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton, for accepting money from Saudi Arabia for the Clinton Foundation.'  
 
Guess they can't help the US and Trump if they have ban on them.

Trevor B said "http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306990-trump-appeared-to-register-eight-companies-in-saudi-arabia     'During a rally on August 21, the day Trump created four of those companies, he said he gets along well with Saudi Arabia.     "They buy apartments from me," Trump said during the Alabama rally. "They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much.”     In January of this year, Trump said on Fox News he "would want to protect Saudi Arabia.     "I would want to protect Saudi Arabia," he said during the interview. "But Saudi Arabia is going to have to help us economically. They were making, before the oil went down ... they were making $1 billion a day.”     During his presidential campaign, the president-elect often called out his Democratic rival, Hillary Clinton, for accepting money from Saudi Arabia for the Clinton Foundation.'     Guess they can't help the US and Trump if they have ban on them. "

The US state dept can be quoted as, "Getting along well" with Saudi Arabia.  
"NO SAUDI OIL", says Trump. (which was my original point)  
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/11/16/no-saudi-oil-says-trump-saudi-arabia-fires-back/#1a11bf9708b0  
 
If you were Trump and previously owned a multi million dollar chain of hotels there too, you might say the same thing about "getting alone well".  
 
Theres a huge distinction between owning hotels and accepting 25+ million dollars in political lobby money from Saudi Arabia (Clinton foundation). No product, no investment..., pure profit. Apples and oranges and not an apt comparison to what Democrats had been taking. Although articles like the one you presented seek to cast the two at the same level of conflict in interest.  
 
Additionally President Trump has legally divorced himself of all previous business interests owned and operated there or anywhere in the world. He funded his own presidential campaign..., he doesn''''t need the lobby money and he''''s proved it with latest exectutive bill that literally states former and existing government officials may "never lobby for a foreign government."  
 
Edited by memberberries, 2017-01-31 15:33:35

List of Trump's executive orders  
Published January 24, 2017 FoxNews.com  
Facebook Twitter livefyre Email Print  
 
Since taking office, President Trump has looked to fulfill some of his campaign promises by using executive orders. Here are the 17 orders, actions and memoranda he has signed so far:  
 
An order instructing agencies that whenever they introduce a regulation, they must first abolish two others.  
 
A memorandum to restructure the National Security Council and the Homeland Security Council.  
 
A memorandum directing the Secretary of Defense to draw up a plan within 30 days to defeat ISIS.  
 
An order to lengthen the ban on administration officials working as lobbyists. There is now a 5 year-ban on officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government, and a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government.  
 
An executive order imposing a 120-day suspension of the refugee program and a 90-day ban on travel to the U.S. from citizens of seven terror hot spots: Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Sudan.  
 
(exact wording that OBAMA used in 2007 during Iraq crisis. - memberberries)  
 
Two multi-pronged orders on border security and immigration enforcement including: the authorization of a U.S.-Mexico border wall; the stripping of federal grant money to sanctuary cities; hiring 5,000 more Border Patrol agents; ending “catch-and-release” policies for illegal immigrants; and reinstating local and state immigration enforcement partnerships.  
 
A memorandum calling for a 30-day review of military readiness.  
 
Two orders reviving the Keystone XL pipeline and Dakota Access piplines. He also signed three other related orders that would: expedite the environmental permitting process for infrastructure projects related to the pipelines; direct the Commerce Department to streamline the manufacturing permitting process; and give the Commerce Department 180 days to maximize the use of U.S. steel in the pipeline.  
 
An order to reinstate the so-called "Mexico City Policy" – a ban on federal funds to international groups that perform abortions or lobby to legalize or promote abortion. The policy was instituted in 1984 by President Reagan, but has gone into and out of effect depending on the party in power in the White House.  
 
A notice that the U.S. will begin withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal. Trump called the order "a great thing for the American worker."  
 
An order imposing a hiring freeze for some federal government workers as a way to shrink the size of government. This excludes the military, as Trump noted at the signing.  
 
An order that directs federal agencies to ease the “regulatory burdens” of ObamaCare. It orders agencies to “waive, defer, grant exemptions from, or delay the implementation of any provision or requirement” of ObamaCare that imposes a “fiscal burden on any State or a cost, fee, tax, penalty, or regulatory burden on individuals, families, healthcare providers, health insurers, patients, recipients of healthcare services, purchasers of health insurance, or makers of medical devices, products, or medications.”

never fully divorce himself from his business interests. He only separated far enough to a please. It's still held by his family. He's still going to look out for his interests. He only made his son's trustee's but he still owns the organisation. He may not have day to day control, but he's still in the drivers seat. He's still making millions from Saudi Arabia though his hotels, golf courses and other business interests.

Trevor B said "never fully divorce himself from his business interests. He only separated far enough to a please. It's still held by his family. He's still going to look out for his interests. He only made his son's trustee's but he still owns the organisation. He may not have day to day control, but he's still in the drivers seat. He's still making millions from Saudi Arabia though his hotels, golf courses and other business interests. "

If i was a US citizen i would want a president who still looked out for own interests, but made it apparent (by regulating against the lobby factor), that he didn''''t put them in front of the interests of his country. But he literally is not "in the drivers seat" He''''s LITERALLY legally divorced from every one of his former corporations. But i may be mistaken on ownership issues. I believe he has mainly eliminated his deciding interest in ownership to a level where he has no impact or influence in operations.  
 
Edited by memberberries, 2017-01-31 15:55:33

he made Executive Orders, like every other incoming President. No big deal. Executive Orders that can be struck down by Judicial and Congressional laws. And can also be rescinded by new Presidents. So that Lobbying order isn't written in stone to stand forever. He also made an order that allows a recently retired service member to be a part of his cabinet before he could otherwise.

Trevor B said "he made Executive Orders, like every other incoming President. No big deal. Executive Orders that can be struck down by Judicial and Congressional laws. And can also be rescinded by new Presidents. So that Lobbying order isn't written in stone to stand forever. He also made an order that allows a recently retired service member to be a part of his cabinet before he could otherwise. "

I'm saying you need to begin to judge his character by what he is doing, and not just what people are saying about him. What he is about to bring to our economy is good news, even if met with resistance by Trudeau. His statements on Saudi oil, the restart of Keystone XL pipeling and executive order that makes it illegal to lobby on behalf of Saudi Arabia are an EXCELLENT start to a process that gets our oil flowing again. I really hope that some of us can see this.  
I don't want to argue here Trevor. i've said my bit, i've defended my points best i can. up to you and others who disagree to see it the way you like.  
 
Edited by memberberries, 2017-01-31 16:12:49

memberberries said "    Trevor B said "never fully divorce himself from his business interests. He only separated far enough to a please. It's still held by his family. He's still going to look out for his interests. He only made his son's trustee's but he still owns the organisation. He may not have day to day control, but he's still in the drivers seat. He's still making millions from Saudi Arabia though his hotels, golf courses and other business interests. " If i was a US citizen i would want a president who still looked out for own interests, but made it apparent (by regulating against the lobby factor), that he didn''''t put them in front of the interests of his country. But he literally is not "in the drivers seat" He''''s LITERALLY legally divorced from every one of his former corporations. But i may be mistaken on ownership issues. I believe he has mainly eliminated his deciding interest in ownership to a level where he has no impact or influence in operations.     Edited by memberberries, 2017-01-31 15:55:33"

but still doesn't stop him from telling his son's what to do or other influence. He also doesn't want to do things that will soil his name and business interests.  
 
The lobbying factor is just a red herring. Good for him that he was able to finance his election campaign through his foundation without outside direct financing. He just did that to limit and hinder any competition when he runs for re-election in 4 years.

was never very popular to begin with, his character was very questionable from the beginning. He was born with the golden spoon and never had to live like a regular citizen. His appointments only reward the rich and his ideologies. Steven Bannon as his Chief of Staff, his background alone raises many red flags.  
 
Now Sean Spicer is back peddling on the 'ban' by saying it was cooked up by the media. When Trump himself called it a 'ban', Spicer even yesterday called in a 'ban'. But then now it's now only 'extreme vetting'. Extreme vetting that would actually make Trump inadmissible to the States himself.  
 
Also Trump's claim that if he gave a heads up prior to signing the order the 'bad people' would flood in. Um, no!! The US already had requirements for people from certain areas that they need visas to enter. A process that can take months to accomplish.

Tater said ""Obama vetoed Keystone XL pipeline 5 or more times after its construction had been started and was passed by US congress.     Our Canadian economy has been tanking ever since due to massive down sizing in the oil industry as a result."     The downsizing in the oil industry was more due to historically low oil prices than anything else, common hazard of a resource based economy. Your statements are inaccurate. As for Saudis, Trump is kissing Saudi a$$, why on earth isn't Saudi Arabia on the list of banned countries of origin but Iran is??? Very possibly because Trump has business interests there.     Just because you want your uneducated jobs back here doesn't mean that anything that happens to get them is good. He's not good for us, who is US??? Billionaires??? That's who he's good for. He's a facist elite, a racist, misogynist sexual predator. That's not good for ME. "

 
 
Edited by JackAzz, 2017-01-31 16:49:21

Trevor B said "was never very popular to begin with, his character was very questionable from the beginning. He was born with the golden spoon and never had to live like a regular citizen. His appointments only reward the rich and his ideologies. Steven Bannon as his Chief of Staff, his background alone raises many red flags.     Now Sean Spicer is back peddling on the 'ban' by saying it was cooked up by the media. When Trump himself called it a 'ban', Spicer even yesterday called in a 'ban'. But then now it's now only 'extreme vetting'. Extreme vetting that would actually make Trump inadmissible to the States himself.     Also Trump's claim that if he gave a heads up prior to signing the order the 'bad people' would flood in. Um, no!! The US already had requirements for people from certain areas that they need visas to enter. A process that can take months to accomplish. "

rights of immigrants are front and center over the defense of the nation. In 2015, the now teary eyed Democratic Senator Chuck Schumer made a lachrymose, impassioned plea for greater border security: he argued that ISIS cells could easily make their way into the country. Now just two years later the executive order from Trump in which he just brushed off a 2011 executive order banning immigration from three nations - Trump added four more - but for 180 days instead of the 120 days...... is met with severe resistance.  
 
I suspect I know who the person is behind this mayhem: the funding of these protest groups - a billionaire (not Trump), whose front is supposedly munificence. America is in trouble, and the agenda driven media is fanning the flames.

following is the top 10 Muslim countries by population.Only Iran is on Trump's list.  
 
1. Indonesia 13.1% not on the list.  
2. India 11% not on the list.  
3. Pakistan 10.5% not on the list.  
4. Bangladesh 8.4% not on the list  
5. Nigeria 4.8% not on the list  
6. Egypt 4.8% not on the list  
7. Iran 4.6% on the list  
8. Turkey not on the list  
9. Algeria 2.2% not on the list  
10. Morocco 2.0% not on the list  
 
The following Muslim countries are on the list. Please do not forget about Iran.  
 
2. Iraq  
3. Syria  
4. Yemen  
5. Somalia  
6. Libya  
7. Sudan  
 
Obviously the 7 banned countries except for Iran each have less than 2% of the world Muslim population.  
 
 
Trump is putting a temporary hold on immigration from unstable countries.

You point out the two glaring double standards that the left is targeting at Pres. Trump Sorbet.  
 
Double Standard 1 -  
Chuck Schumer 19 Nov 15  
 
"We must tighten loopholes in the Visa Waiver prgm, ensure passports can’t be faked & stop terrorists who want to exploit the system."  
 
One year later the concept brings crocodile tears flowing and huge criticism of Pres. Trump. Pathetic act, utterly unconvincing. Perfect example of a bad actor.  
 
Double standard 2  
 
The list of restricted countries in Trumps executive order is identical to the list made by Obama in 2008 and 2011. Not a word of criticism from the left then. Now its a circus of bad actors all pretending to be offended by an order Obama issued 2X already. Nothing but praise from the left back then. Now they've lost their collective composure altogether over this order. Just REALLY bad acting!

People are gonna wish we had a Trump up here soon....  
 
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/trump-tax-reform.pdf

Adam said " In I’m sure an unintentional way some parts of this discussion might be seen as giving pause for thought about the "post-truth" or "alternative facts" era that changes in the US have in a way ushered in more prominently. Going forward an average reader of political discussion is best served being more versed in recognizing “disinfo artists” at work in posting, tag-teaming and the like. Not just in taking part in politically charged discussions on here but elsewhere online it’s going to be ever more important to be informed on info like whats at the link below, which presents “25 rules of disinformation” and eight traits you can spot in a disinformationalist:   http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html     When reading politically charged discussions going forward see if you can spot these tactics at work. There’s some good advice on dealing with people like this, but don’t be shy to report. We’re here on eBrandon for in-good-faith rational debate. If you spot someone or some group that appears to have the primary purpose of disinfo, let me know! "

Hi Adam,  
I agree completely with you. There is a need for all factual information to come completely to the fore front. We each may have our opinions, but those are irrelevant in debate and political discussion.  
 
The truth is, you can't make someone's mind up for them. You can show them as much valid info as possible, to the best of your knowledge. In the end, we each must decide what we feel is valid and what we feel should be disregarded.  
 
I've tried to present links to exec. orders, direct quotes from politicians, links to major articles (forbes), Trump tax plan and more. (did you read that tax plan???)  
 
The first 7 posts in this thread we very one sided against Trump. I was planning to stay silent and see how far out of realistic perspective it would go.  
 
This was a 1st week of trump thread, however I saw nothing presented that actually represented what Pres. Trump is doing, IN REAL TIME, through exec. order and tax reform. Thats why i chimed in.  
 
Once i read the Hitler comparisons, I really had no choice but to speak up. I love our Province, i love Brandon. The people i love live here and are effected by these wild speculative comparisons as well. It also troubles me to see the people i grew up with here practicing cognitive dissidence. Not even wanting to look at the possibility that Trump isn't some sort of maniacal war monger or "Hitler". The Hitler comparison is particularly troubling, because to refer to Trump as Hitler, severely diminishes the actually tyranny that took place under the 3rd Reich. Its an insult to those who perished under Hitler's regime.  
 
Anyway. These are just my opinions. No one needs to agree with them. but the exec. orders, reform, the public statements. Those are real, not insubstantial or inference.

Adam said " In I’m sure an unintentional way some parts of this discussion might be seen as giving pause for thought about the "post-truth" or "alternative facts" era that changes in the US have in a way ushered in more prominently. Going forward an average reader of political discussion is best served being more versed in recognizing “disinfo artists” at work in posting, tag-teaming and the like. Not just in taking part in politically charged discussions on here but elsewhere online it’s going to be ever more important to be informed on info like whats at the link below, which presents “25 rules of disinformation” and eight traits you can spot in a disinformationalist:   http://www.whale.to/m/disin.html     When reading politically charged discussions going forward see if you can spot these tactics at work. There’s some good advice on dealing with people like this, but don’t be shy to report. We’re here on eBrandon for in-good-faith rational debate. If you spot someone or some group that appears to have the primary purpose of disinfo, let me know! "

have you ever read the following quotes?  
 
“All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected but in every place in this country, are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country,”  
 
“The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants. The public services they use impose burdens on our taxpayers. That’s why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.  
 
“In the budget I will present to you, we will try to do more to speed the deportation of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes, to better identify illegal aliens in the workplace as recommended by the commission headed by former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan.  
 
“We are a nation of immigrants. “But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it.”  
 
One would think these quotes are from President Trump, but in reality they are from President Clinton in his 1995 state of the union address.  
 
The speech is easily accessible. It's not "alt or fake" news.  
 
So Adam, what is what Trump is saying any different than what Clinton said? Clinton rightfully realized it was a problem back then. It's become much worse which is why Trump realizes something needs to be done. Notice you don't see any clips of Clinton's speech on CBC or CTV. Why is that? The problem is much worse now than then.  
 
Adam, how much heroin and methamphetamine is/has being smuggled across the US border? How much destruction to Americans of all races and wealth have illegal drugs had? There is a serious heroin epidemic in many parts of the USA. What did Obama do to try and curb the flow of these deadly drugs into the USA?  
 
 
People need to realize that the media is no longer here to inform. They have chosen sides and are in the business the manipulate. Trump, like him or hate him, has exposed the MSM.  
 
It's no different in Canada. How can we trust our media when the host of the CBC's Power and Politics gleefully tweets a selfie with Justin Trudeau.

Simply saying that it's clear there's going to be more of a trend here and anywhere in political exchanges in particular amongst a small segment of the population to wilfully spread disinformation or misdirect. It's important for the sake of on-topic constructive discussion that the audience has the tools to recognize it and hold accountable in those cases. Haven't singled anyone out but it's interesting who might read that last post and link that describe systematic methods of manipulating and feel a need to defend.  
 
We aren't talking black or white here and it's certainly possible (and most would i'm sure say necessary) for there to be folks on all sides on political debates that back one's side with verifiable fact, that are clear when what they're stating is opinion, answer followup questions on holes/portions of a position that are glazed over, be respectful in disagreement, etc. Beyond that, not going to the point of turning this into a discussion it isn't but am happy to chat further in private.