Discussions

There can be no doubt that Hollywood has produced some pretty questionable material in our day, but I think that a mainstream movie made just recently pretty much takes the cake for a morally reprehensible ending.  
 
The movie is the latest horror genre adaptation of the Stephen King novel, 'IT Chapter Two'. In the movie a group of young friends from the first movie have become adults and go back to their hometown to once more do battle with the evil clown that ravaged their lives.  
 
The problem I have with the film has nothing to do with the horror genre or any scare tactics on it's part, but rather comes at the end of the film, where one of the characters, a man named Stanley writes his friends a suicide note explaining why he took his own life. The note explains how Stanley believes he would hold the group back in their fight with the clown because of his fears and he would rather commit suicide then face the clown again. He then tells his friends in the note to follow their dreams.  
 
The stirring exhortation from a guy who committed suicide is the moral conclusion of the movie. How could that possibly ever help anyone to overcome their fears? The ending was seriously disturbing.  
 
I recently read some research by a study done at the US Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbia which stated that suicides amongst young people ages 10 to 17 in America spiked by a third in the month following the release of the Netflix TV Show 13 Reasons Why and remained higher thereafter. The TV show centers around a girls suicide and the reasons why she did it.  
 
Seriously, what is wrong with society that we would allow our mainstream media to somehow put a positive spin on suicide? Is there much worse in this world then one taking their own life? Is Hollywood not aware of the influence their films have on our impressionable youth and the most vulnerable in our society?  
 
Seriously, I doubt that the devil himself could have come up with a more morally reprehensible ending to the movie.  
 
What does Brandon think?

Thanks for the spoiler but, beyond that, I think you have a very myopic view of suicide and should maybe consider that not all life lessons are the warm and fuzzy kind. It has obviously moved you to the point of feeling the need to discuss suicide which, in itself, is a very positive thing.

you people need to read the Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell.  
 
https://www.litcharts.com/lit/the-tipping-point/chapter-seven-case-study-suicide-smoking-and-the-search-for-the-unsticky-cigarette

First this is a horror movie, not based on real life. It’s also by Stephen King, who’s stories are quite out there. In the book there is suicide, it was written many years ago when nobody was scared to talk about things. I understand the film has taken it to a different level by explaining his suicide. Sometimes people need answers and even in real life people want to feel justified for how they respond to situations. This movie was not aimed for 10-17yr olds, which is why it carries an R rating.  
So if parents are letting their kids watch this without explaining why it’s wrong, that’s on parents. To compare it to 13 reasons why, is ridiculous, they are not even in the same boat. But even then, it falls to parents to explain 13 reasons why in context to their children. Stop letting the film/tv industry inform your children.  
As for It, it is a movie, that’s all. If you can’t enjoy if for it’s entertainment value and understand the workings of Stephen King or adaptations of his work, please stay home, I’m tired of people trying to wreck everything for others simply because they don’t like it.  
 
I personally like that they added the letters and explain actions of his suicide!  
 
-long time Stephen King fan

Many studies show that suicide rates will continue to rise with or without shows like “13 reasons why”. They suggest we should use shows like 13 reasons why has a chance to open the discussion, and talk about suicide with our young population. Here is one such article:  
 
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/suicide-rates-are-rising-with-or-without-13-reasons-why-lets-use-it-as-a-chance-to-talk-116434

It’s a movie. I personally think you are reading way too much into it. For anyone who is a fan of “IT” will know that this is also a remake of an old IT2 movie. The storyline is identical. That movie was many many years ago. Personally I take it as this - some people can face their Demons and some can’t and choose suicide. It’s a movie and shouldn’t really need to be analyzed- just enjoy.

Agree!!!

Forgot a couple things to add.  
As for them “putting a positive spin on suicide”, that is not what’s being done. If you’ve never had mental illness, suicidal thoughts, or had a loved one commit suicide, you won’t understand any of it. They are explaining in this and 13 reasons, why they are doing it and what caused them to get to the breaking point. No one is saying suicide is the answer. No one is making it glorious. It’s still heartbreaking to all those involved. But to loved ones it explains that there are other things going on in that persons mind and this is how they justify their actions.  
But I’d rather these be put out there, showing what may be going on in someone’s life to cause them to break, than burying our heads and pretending it doesn’t happen. Because it does, numerous times every single day. These shows open up discussion and help people to start dialogues, potentially before the break. By just leaving it with suicide and no explanation it left to many questions. This supplied answers. Answers are important to loved ones.  
Especially in 13 reasons why. It gets people to pay more attention to how they treat people every day. Because they don’t know what battle the other person is fighting. As for IT.... it’s a HORROR MOVIE! Nothing about a psycho clown killing people is “morally” correct, why should the suicide be?  
And the devil is as real as Pennywise himself.  
 
Edited by Cheezies, 2019-09-19 10:58:56

In many cult classic film & shows of the past there's often the scene where a co-character or even the main character will "sacrifice" their life in order to save those that remain. "Leave me, I'll hold them off" and they fight to the end against the enemy or monster(s). "You go first , I'll hold it open and close it behind you" then they get crushed, eaten or die in some horrible way and the others carry on realizing the selfless act that was done. We think of nothing anymore when someone on screen heroically gives up their life to let others live on. I have not seen this instalment of Stephen Kings IT, so I'm just going on from what I see here and found in comments elsewhere. Just because this scene doesn't show this character directly fighting against Pennywise and loosing his life to "save the others", doesn't mean he didn't do what he thought was right. Stephen King wrote this as a different kind of selfless sacrifice. Stanley realizes the group can't defeat IT, because he can't defeat IT. He was the weak link. And as insulting and insensitive towards an certain number within the audience who might have experienced tragedy involving suicide, I think this particular suicide shouldn't be perceived as someone giving up, but rather Stanley understanding he's going to be the cause in a no-win situation and by taking himself out of the equation will result in a possible different outcome for the others. Isn't that the same as the fatally wounded member of the group asking to be left behind to meet his ultimate death under his terms to give the remaining the chance to live? I'm sorry, some of you find suicide uncomfortable or even painful, but this film is fiction and glorifies death in a shocking manner for entertainment. I just don't buy it that this film "promotes suicide" ...It does promote death with violence for amusement. And if you feel that intense horror scenes with blood, gory effects set in a suspenseful setting is acceptable for children to watch, but are bothered by a selfless and/or senseless suicide of one character as too much for them to view? ...Your set of moral values towards young developing minds are different than mine.  
 
Just my opinion, I could be wrong.  
 
Edited by snowman5, 2019-09-19 13:52:24

I haven't seen the second but I think the shows now a days are having an impact in today's youth as thier brains are not fully developed. Where parents now a days are allowing younger and younger children to watch horror that is way beyond thier comprehension to understand.I have seen the negative effects they can do when a parent doesn't moniterwhat thier children are watching and paying on video games. They are rated for a reason.  
 
I know that a 16 year old whole love to see a M or R rated movie but sorry, they are there for a reason. You are just going to wait a couple of years until you actually mature.

Hollywood is the devils playground. It truly only cares about the dollar. It allows others to be creative, and to explore.. but it's evil. Those bright lights only mask the true horror that is behind it.  
 
People only care about things that somehow or in someway impact their life directly. It's unfortunate, and you have those random special people who just care about everything. I watched the first IT movie, and it's honestly been one of those movies that have stuck with me, especially when the lights go out. Some part of me wants to watch the second movie, but I just know I shouldn't and I won't. I love Stephen King. I've read so many of his books, but the movie terrify me.  
 
I've also been a fan of "13 Reasons Why." I don't feel like this show has a negative twist on anything but a variety of hot topics that make us all uncomfortable talking about them. It's not saying that suicide by any means is an option... and I surely wouldn't expect people to take "IT" the second chapter too literally, either. Not quite an educational film by the sounds of it, so I wouldn't let it be the narrative of your life.