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can expropriate land, and that i:ncludes any level of government.

is not what I said or inferred as the pollution, but rather was replying to contamination of our water ways and drinking water. Read my two posts. Thankyou. Easy to find figures on the net to quantify almost anything you like. A little harder to do it in the real world.

amount of people will get a large sum of money from Trudeau, Tax payers, as usual and nothing will change and we will do it all again in the near future over something . Until the country is bankrupt, just my prediction  
 
Edited by my22cents, 2020-02-19 10:07:18

Since you have detailed how the law allows oil and gas companies to extract resources, you cannot call it theft. One action is law abiding, the other is law breaking. I can understand your confusion as law breaking seems to be the new normal in this country.  
 
In addition, I wholeheartedly agree that farming and agriculture are exceptionally important. I grew up with it and respect it greatly. I am, however, realistic and not self aggrandizing in my views. If I shall state a figure, I will back it up. Just because you repeat over and over again that agriculture tops everything GDP wise does not make it so.  
 
https://www.investorsfriend.com/canadian-gdp-canadian-imports-and-exports/

a bit about mineral rights, in Manitoba around 80-85% is I believe the number of mineral rights are owned by the land owner , so not that unusual here, Sask is 50/50 , Alberta is 80-85% province owned. All has to do when the mineral rights laws were passed and provinces formed...  
And on your one comment on clearing bush , no worse than some farmers I've seen clear a pasture or potholes to farm , then find there was a reason it was left to bush....  
 
Edited by PG13, 2020-02-19 12:13:47

With regard to your comment on clearing brush...

How long the agricultural industry can be Canada's number one industry without an oil industry. Let's see you run all of those tractors, combines, sprayers, bale wagons and farm trucks without oil, gas or diesel. Let's see you get your crops off and to market. Let's you get the bio fuels up and running without using any fossil fuels first. It's so easy to just say that we don't need any oil and gas when you don't actually have to get along without it. So, let's see you run your farm without using even one drop of oil or gas in 2020. Do it.

Okay, I get it. People are overkill on enviromental concerns without being fully educated on the realities of our modern world. The reality is that the petrol industry is under no threat of ending. The only thing that Canadian Petrol industry is under threat of is becoming a minor player in the world suppliers. No, it doesn't save the environment by not using the petrol here. It just means we will be importing products made of foreign petrol instead.  
Sure, petrol may become less and less of an energy source over the next century. But petrol is more than your fuel for your car. It is the base for your electric car components. Base for your electrical insulators for your home too.  
Your clothes (spandex, lycra, polyester, acrylic, nylon, kevlar) are all petrol based. Your house insulation, vinyl siding (vinyl anything), sewer pipes are petrol based. (Sewer pipes and electrical insulators are great arguements that not ALL plastic should be biodegradable.)  
Whatever you are using to post to ebrandon are petrol based products. Acrylic window frames, the soles of your shoes, your couch fabric...all petrol based products.  
Stop bitching about petrol based products. Start bitching and rallying and protesting the fact there is technology that allows ALL petrol based products to be recycled back to base origin and is not being used in Canada. (Pretty much only used in Japan.)  
Let's be realistic. Harvesting of fossil fuels is not in any way in danger of ending. What it is used for ultimately may change, but not the actual need for fossil fuels.  
Sorry, but a lot if these protestors are not giving up indoor plumbing, warm draft free homes, warm winter coats that are lightweight, electricity, home insulation, electronic devices, or even their spanx or lululemon whatevers. Just saying.

it's in everything these days as well. When those for the oil industry rag on lithium production are they going to stop using everything that uses lithium, doubt it.  
 
One day fossil fuels will fall from favor for a new and better source.

for me is when people buy land with existing wells and pipelines and then squawk continuously, about them , if these people dislike it so much why are they interested in the land?

to those who buy or purchase homes near an airport or railway tracks.

hoping to see hundreds of millions in lawsuits against this protester group, for Canadas lost revinue and the people laid off because of this bogus ordeal, someone reports the truth, and someone is there to cover it up. Time to turn the tables on the US paid protesters.

Agree. Bush is left alone on my farm. It’s the best place for the cattle, and it cuts down the wind reducing soil erosion. Most mineral rights in Manitoba are not owned by the current surface land owner. I used to be involved in Manitoba surface rights.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-02-21 23:11:59

Have any wells or flow lines on our property and trying to keep it that way.

Do all that we can to reduce fuel use. I did not actually say that we can easily exist without fossil fuels but rather that land and property owners should be respected and not ran over as if we don’t exist.

Only that the government in Manitoba allows private companies (often foreign owned) to force entry and leasing on landowners. The well site caveat stands for 21 years at which time the company may opt to renew for a further 21 years.

If you take the primary producer and then factor in the rest of the agriculture industry around him or her. All of the equipment, chemical and fertilizer manufacturing, the processing plants , the grain handling companies, the service industries that support agriculture, the research sites and centres, agricultural colleges, the retailers and equipment dealerships. The list is endless. You will then find that you start to paint a very different picture of the size and importance of Canadian agriculture. Agriculture being the largest industry in Canada was reported in the western producer recently. In Manitoba’s case I believe for 2014 ( the year may be wrong ) the oil and gas industry contributed 1.8 billion Canadian dollars to the economy while agriculture contributed in excess of 10 billion Canadian dollars.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-02-21 23:16:19

Oil and gas is major part of our resource based economy in this country and and we do need the industry. I was referring to the last half of your second sentence. Tell that to the people who work in the industry. Tell it to the truckers who move the goods you produce and the goods we consume. Tell it to the people of Alberta and Saskatchewan who no longer live in "have not provinces" thanks to the development of Canada's oil and gas resources.

I agree that currently we are dependent upon fossil fuel use . However I think that due to public pressure and through legislation we will quickly develop alternative power sources. There are alternatives being developed by vehicle/truck and equipment manufacturers in addition to the much touted electric vehicles which may have a place but alone are probably not the whole answer. Some of the technologies are really not new , there has been no will to develop these into a viable practical state but that will now change quickly. We will likely see more hybrid drives in the interim reducing fuel usage and emissions. Agriculture has adapted to change many times before and the industry will adapt again embracing alternatives for the benefit of everyone. Oil and gas extraction have brought wealth across Canada although every time I hear of another salt water (which is highly pollutive to the soil) leak from a pipe line and every time I read about lease rentals not being paid on time or at all I wonder if it has been worth it. As a previous poster pointed out the real problem is excessive consumerism to which we all contribute to some degree.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-02-22 17:18:21

Well the resource sector has spin off/secondary benefit as well. I'll stick with my linked statistics thank you very much.

The Wet'suwet'en people didn’t ask for outsiders to put up blockades.  
 
The five heredity chiefs want action but disappear when it matters most.  
 
I feel sorry for the people. Does this self sabotage between elected and unelected chiefs go on everywhere?

You can use statistics. They can be manipulated to achieve whatever result is desired. I will stick with dollar numbers and the confidence that I find operating efficiencies on our small family farm wherever possible that reduce our carbon footprint whilst allowing us to produce high quality safe food, enhancing biodiversity and the environment on our property and contributing to our local small community.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-02-22 18:22:14

like the kettle calling the pot black.

there are a lot of these FN peoples who support the oil and gas industry, that's how they put food on their table and a roof over their head but the media doesn't want to spread the word about them. Media only glorifies the rabble rousers!

People make the "Petroleum demand is never going to end" argument to justify current actions, but they REALLY need to look at the numbers.  
 
50% of current use is transportation-oriented, with that number jumping to 65% or so when considering lubricants. Which is what makes the heavy crudes of the prairies justifiable. The demand is good enough to overcome the other shortcomings. That is if we had the infrastructure to get it to market. Hence the Western hissy fit of the past 3 odd years.  
 
I don't doubt that petroleum usage ain't going away, What concerns me is that as the demand goes down, so to will the overall price. Though it IS going to happen across the board, the sweetest sources are going to be the biggest winners in an increasingly picky market. For example, WTI. Less distillation is required, the better the position in the new market environment.  
 
Plastics and consumer products are indeed sourced from petroleum. But these numbers are tiny. Really, EVERYTHING is tiny when compared to transportation.  
 
People don't want to hear this stuff. Jason Kenny dumped millions of dollars into a facility designed to rebuke information like this. But it is reality.  
 
No, the 65% transportation chunk of oil consumption isn't going away anytime soon. It's going to fade over time when the alternatives become more trusted.  
 
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Will be broke by the end of February 2020!

The mainstream media always takes the side of the anti-oil environmental protesters. Just take the DAPL protest, for example, we never got to hear from the local ranchers and farmers, people trying to get their kids to and from school, landowners being intimidated by protesters, etc. The mainstream media also never reported on the huge mess left behind by all of those environmental protesters either. The people of Bismarck were still trying to clean up the mess left behind several months after the protesters were gone. The MSM always only report from the viewpoint of the environmental lobby groups, the big "non-profit" groups that I prefer to call "Big Green". Yes, as I mentioned earlier too, the media wants it to look as if all FNs are against building the pipelines.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2020-02-23 15:02:08

said, exactly true.

I’ve gotten to the point where I just don’t care to listen to these activists anymore.  
 
And they’re the ones that get all the attention.  
 
Yes, we need to figure out more sustainable ways to get our energy but we have to get there somehow.  
 
Has anyone actually listened to Greta ? Besides the fact that she has nothing to contribute but “raising awareness” as if anyone on the planet doesn’t already know about the issue, she wants to not only reduce emissions, she wants to stop them altogether, like, tomorrow.  
 
Which would actually mean much of the earths population would have to die, literally. No oil means no agriculture on the scale we have now. No transportation on any large scale of anything. Economy grinds to a halt.  
 
The naivety and arrogance could only come from a child. She has no idea how the world works and neither do many of these protesters.  
 
We need to start by reducing Chinas emissions ASAP. They are the biggest producer and if time is any factor it has to start there. If this pipeline begins this process then we need to build it fast.

Greta doesn't visit the world's largest offenders to speak -China and India.  
 
I am finding these protesters (especially the students that flock to Greta's side) seem to be the biggest hypocrites. Pockets full of the newest cell phones, expensive designer clothes (made from petroleum products), many of them driving luxury SUVs to get to these protests.  
 
Funny how Greta's minions, who were brought up in the most consumer glut generation in human history, don't understand the basics of what it has taken to supply them with their luxuries.