| | Nordberg said "| | GreenDragon said "| | Nordberg said "| | GreenDragon said "Public opinion[edit]
A 1992 poll showed that 62% of Canadians were opposed to women having topfreedom, with women being more likely to be opposed.[20] A more detailed survey was undertaken in 1998,[21] and a detailed analysis was published by Fischtein and colleagues in 2005 (Fischtein et al. 2005). This showed context to be important, for instance 72% were opposed to being topless on a city street, 62% in parks, but only 48% on beaches. In all cases women were more opposed to toplessness.
Organizations[edit]
Topfree Equal Rights Association[edit]
The Canadian Topfree Equal Rights Association (TERA) assists women in both Canada and the United States who are prosecuted for being topless in situations whereas men are not.[22] It does not advocate toplessness, but promotes the concept of freedom of choice of the individual woman, and the de-sexualisation of breasts.[23]
The above was pasted from Wikipedia on Top Freedom.
So now here's my stance on the subject. Females of any age and ethnic background should have the right to be topless in those areas where it is deemed acceptable.
First of all, why the distinction between men and women? There are a lot of trans gender people out there, a couple of them I dearly call my friends. The wording should state that the law accepts topless adults (of any gender) in appropriate places.
Now with the understanding that I fully support the right for ALL adults to bare their chest as they see fit within the constraints of the law, that still doesn't mean I agree with it, and it also doesn't mean I think the law should include children at this point in time.
In time, if this forward thinking movement of topless nudity is practiced and becomes commonplace then I will be all for all children also bearing the right under the law to topless nudity. But not now. Yes this would be excluding girls for the time being, but I think it's important to do so right now. This is, however, discrimination against girls and I realize it won't hold in a court of law and that for all intents and purposes if the law agrees that all adults should have the right to toplessness in certain situations and places then the children should also have that right. But just as I don't agree that women should exercise their right to toplessness, I also hope that parents would use extreme caution if allowing their children to be topless in a public place. There are very real concerns of possible bullying, teasing, taunting, and abuse. Right now cyber bullying is so problematic for adolescents and there are so many kids committing suicide over the littlest things that truly shouldn't matter. Bullying is very real, and can have very devastating effects. Do we really want to add fuel to the fire? It's not common for girls to be topless in today's society so my guess is that any girls practicing this would be open to all kinds of ridicule, teasing and bullying. What parent would ever take a chance of bringing such things on their little girl?
The 8 year old in question, unless she does not have the mental capacity to understand, should realize that other girls around her age do wear tops in the swimming pool, and I would wager that most 8 year old girls would not want to be the only girl in a pool without a top for fear of being teased about it. Teasing and bullying shouldn't happen, but it does happen.
The parents of this 8 year old girl I assume live in our society. I don't think they were from another country and just on vacation here. So they are fully aware that being topless is not common practice. I condemn them, as the adults in this situation that fully know and comprehend what the consequences could be, to still allow their little girl to be topless in the pool. And to further put their little girl in jeopardy by making such a big deal about the situation as to even take it to the media. I really feel for this child. She's going to be the brunt of countless jokes and ridicule for years because her parents made such a stink about it. They were in the wrong to do this. And I believe these parents took their girl to the pool that day without a swimsuit top, because they had an agenda. I believe they did it not simply to just let their child cool off in the pool, but to instigate an equality argument and gain their moment in the limelight. If that's the case they were so very wrong, and their child is the one that will suffer the consequences of their thoughtlessness.
In time every human should bear the legal right to be topless in those situations and places deemed appropriate. But I don't think that time is now, not for children. And I don't even think women or girls should exercise that right.
And really, why stop at the top? What's wrong with full body public nudity? The body in and of itself should not be deemed sexual unless in an actual sexual act or displaying oneself in a sexual manner. But again, all in due time in the future. Not. Right. Now. This society is so far away from being ready for such a thing. " |
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You condemn them?
That's really what this comes down to, you have made a moral judgement on these parents for advocating for their daughter.
She didn't have an issue going in without her top. They didn't have an issue with her going in without her top. Her top looks exactly the same as her brothers. Had the city worker not intervened, nobody would have noticed. The city worker had no legal right, in fact was barred legally from intervening.
Let me break this down for you.
Had the City of Guelph obeyed the law, this little girl would have been left alone. You go on about her parents, yet they did nothing wrong. You go on about how she was uncovered, yet she did nothing wrong. The City of Guelph broke the law, the City of Guelph did something wrong.
If the City of Brandon broke the law and made my kid cry, I'd make an issue of it too. Governments are supposed to uphold the law, not break it.
As for those studies, real studies this time, I'm sure that all of the participants when asked the question about women's breasts were thinking of adult women with adult women's breasts. While indeed pertinent to part of this conversation, not really applicable to a child that doesn't yet have breasts.
And that's the crux. I just don't understand why you have gotten so upset about a child baring a part of her body that looks the same as 99.9% of children her age, 50% of who traditionally go without tops. You insist on sexualizing something that not even nature has gotten around to affecting yet. You see breasts, I see a non-descript chest: not that I'd give her more than a passing glance. I don't understand why, if you had been at that park, why you would be so fixated on an 8 year old stranger's chest. So much so, that you would probably approach her parents.
I don't understand why it is your business.
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..And I have given mine, Dear Liza.
It's not about sexualizing that 8 year old girl. It's about the consequences she faces, especially since her parents took it to the media. You haven't even begun to think about the after effects of all this on that poor girl. You're for some reason fixated on this idea that everyone is sexualizing a child when that doesn't even begin to encompass what this is truly all about. I suggest you read my post again, rather than gloss over it. " |
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After effects that would never happened had the City of Guelph stayed out of a parenting decision.
This is on the City, not her parents. " |
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