Discussions

If Winnipeg's Mayor wants to jump on the bandwagon, as Trevor has said "So What".  
Woinnipeg apparently has the resources, the support agency and the housing. That is where they should be settled, not somewhere that is not able to adequately meet the needs. It would not be fair to them or the citizens of Brandon. And it is NOT the Mayor's job to push this, so cut the guy some slack.  
And nowhere have I ever read about anyone getting free dental.

As much as it may surprise us government does at time try to do things in an efficient and cost effective way. These people are coming to this country and because of differences in culture and language will need help. Language and communication skills are usually the biggest problem, and larger centres not only have more resources to draw on as far as those programs but may also have communities of similar ethnic background which they can turn to as well. If the city of Brandon were to try and cover these needs I don't believe that it would be cost effective, a classroom with an instructor for language, assisted by a group of volunteers with the same ethnic background, would likely be able to work with a larger group of people. If the city were to bring in ten or twenty families or say about 80-100 people, would resource be available to help these people become active and productive members of the community, or would we have what you want, low paid labor with communication skills that would likely keep them searching for jobs because of those language problems.

lovetooshop said "are these refugees coming going to be provided free dental services?? Free eye care?? Free prescription??   These are just some of the services that us working Canadians do not have.   I presume so, and if they are, it's just not right imo "

about free dental and vision care.  
 
Read this link from an interview with John McCallum.  
 
http://www.cbc.ca./radio/thehouse/meet-your-new-governmrnt-1.3305229/liberals-to-fully-restore-refugee-health-care-cuts-says-john-mccallum-1.3305978  
 
McCallum actually calls the decision to restore dental and vision care for refugees a "no-brainer"  
 
I wish I got free dental, wouldn't mind a free exam every couple of years too.

Johnbisonbear said "    lovetooshop said "are these refugees coming going to be provided free dental services?? Free eye care?? Free prescription??   These are just some of the services that us working Canadians do not have.   I presume so, and if they are, it's just not right imo " about free dental and vision care.     Read this link from an interview with John McCallum.     http://www.cbc.ca./radio/thehouse/meet-your-new-governmrnt-1.3305229/liberals-to-fully-restore-refugee-health-care-cuts-says-john-mccallum-1.3305978     McCallum actually calls the decision to restore dental and vision care for refugees a "no-brainer"     I wish I got free dental, wouldn't mind a free exam every couple of years too. "

I'm sure if you asked a refugee, they'd prefer one of their slaughtered relatives back over dental care. We can't give back the lives of those they've lost, or their homes or their livelihoods. All we can offer them is a chance to start fresh and give them a year of assistance to get them started. I wouldn't trade places with them for anything, especially not a free dental exam. CRASS.

Mela said "    Johnbisonbear said "    lovetooshop said "are these refugees coming going to be provided free dental services?? Free eye care?? Free prescription??   These are just some of the services that us working Canadians do not have.   I presume so, and if they are, it's just not right imo " about free dental and vision care.     Read this link from an interview with John McCallum.     http://www.cbc.ca./radio/thehouse/meet-your-new-governmrnt-1.3305229/liberals-to-fully-restore-refugee-health-care-cuts-says-john-mccallum-1.3305978     McCallum actually calls the decision to restore dental and vision care for refugees a "no-brainer"     I wish I got free dental, wouldn't mind a free exam every couple of years too. " I'm sure if you asked a refugee, they'd prefer one of their slaughtered relatives back over dental care. We can't give back the lives of those they've lost, or their homes or their livelihoods. All we can offer them is a chance to start fresh and give them a year of assistance to get them started. I wouldn't trade places with them for anything, especially not a free dental exam. CRASS. "

Honestly I'd like my Mum back too over a free dental exam, no need to get hysterical, I'm only providing the correct information as requested by a previous poster.

Johnbisonbear said "    lovetooshop said "are these refugees coming going to be provided free dental services?? Free eye care?? Free prescription??   These are just some of the services that us working Canadians do not have.   I presume so, and if they are, it's just not right imo " about free dental and vision care.     Read this link from an interview with John McCallum.     http://www.cbc.ca./radio/thehouse/meet-your-new-governmrnt-1.3305229/liberals-to-fully-restore-refugee-health-care-cuts-says-john-mccallum-1.3305978     McCallum actually calls the decision to restore dental and vision care for refugees a "no-brainer"     I wish I got free dental, wouldn't mind a free exam every couple of years too. "

for the correct info.

Mela said "    Johnbisonbear said "    lovetooshop said "are these refugees coming going to be provided free dental services?? Free eye care?? Free prescription??   These are just some of the services that us working Canadians do not have.   I presume so, and if they are, it's just not right imo " about free dental and vision care.     Read this link from an interview with John McCallum.     http://www.cbc.ca./radio/thehouse/meet-your-new-governmrnt-1.3305229/liberals-to-fully-restore-refugee-health-care-cuts-says-john-mccallum-1.3305978     McCallum actually calls the decision to restore dental and vision care for refugees a "no-brainer"     I wish I got free dental, wouldn't mind a free exam every couple of years too. " I'm sure if you asked a refugee, they'd prefer one of their slaughtered relatives back over dental care. We can't give back the lives of those they've lost, or their homes or their livelihoods. All we can offer them is a chance to start fresh and give them a year of assistance to get them started. I wouldn't trade places with them for anything, especially not a free dental exam. CRASS. "

is a little over the top imo.  
What I'm trying to say, we have veterans and older people who have lived in this country their whole life, paid taxes their whole life, and have even fought for the freedom on this country (for this I am very grateful), but they aren't entitled for the benefits that refugees will be given. (and yes, I do know a couple elderly who just can't afford to go to a dentist)  
I am NOT saying that we should not let refugees into this country, but for them to have better entitlement is not fair.  
I also understand many have been through a lot but do you not think our veterans have been through at lot?

So now free dental and healthcare. Most people don't get one, the other or both. So bleeding hearts win over common sense and those who lived here all our lives get the royal #^$&@. I have read all the arguments and I still say we need to take care of the people here before spending millions or billions so they can look good on the world stage. So whats next kick people out of their house so refugees can have it or take the food out of your fridge. If you want them here so bad give up a room(s) and food in your house so my taxes can go to someone hungry or sick living on the street or a vet who put his life on hold in the service of his country and the people forgot or now is shifted lower on peoples importance as it doesn't get them recognized. People are such Hippocrates.

If your born in Canada and speak English or French, and not disabled in a anyway, then if you can't afford dental or vision, then the root cause of that is your own bad decision making or incompetence in some way shape or form, and that's your own fault.  
 
Refugees are at no fault of their own, and if we're taking them in, they should be checked and treated for rotten teeth and vision problems, and provided with English or French language training, so they can adjust in canada and get jobs and become taxpayers too, the faster this happens the less the overall program costs to current taxpayers.  
 
How the heck would you expect someone to adjust if they have a throbbing toothache and can't see clearly?

Enfyre said "If your born in Canada and speak English or French, and not disabled in a anyway, then if you can't afford dental or vision, then the root cause of that is your own bad decision making or incompetence in some way shape or form, and that's your own fault.     Refugees are at no fault of their own, and if we're taking them in, they should be checked and treated for rotten teeth and vision problems, and provided with English or French language training, so they can adjust in canada and get jobs and become taxpayers too, the faster this happens the less the overall program costs to current taxpayers.     How the heck would you expect someone to adjust if they have a throbbing toothache and can't see clearly? "

expect the poor veteran who lives in my community that fought for your freedom (among other things) and now is mentally ill because of what he seen and did in those trenches, live with his throbbing toothache???? He has been living with it for years I might add!  
Oh ya, you say that was HIS bad decision making?  
Remember Enfyre, it may have been his "incompetence" (your words) that gave you the freedom you have today!  
To heck with him, we have refugees to support!!  

Maybe my response was "over the top"...but I don't understand this urge to turn all of the problems Canada faces around on the Syrian refugees. If the concern is that our Veterans need more support, we have a ministry devoted entirely to them. That ministry has its own budget and objectives and absolutely NOTHING to do with the refugee stream of immigration. You can hardly expect the government to bring a refugee of war to our nation and not provide them adequate health care for a term of 1 year while they settle. And while I am 100% with you that there are other areas of this nation in DIRE need of additional resources, we have to realize that the ministries responsible have been creating these issues for years. This current influx of refugees didn't create the issues.  
 
Edited by Mela, 2015-12-01 13:51:21

Now if they need more money for the refugees which department would get hit. Most if not all so the vets dept could see less along with others. Its going to come down to what is more important and where is the resources needed. Well the vets been on the street for a while whats a bit more. WRONG. People are looking at the refugees as the most important and if they must rob another dept (as they most likely will have to as this will go way over budget) so be it. The millions plus they are spending or going to spend could be used in places to alleviate so of what is wrong here now but public opinion says we need to help around the world without regard for what is happening in Canada.

Mela said "Maybe my response was "over the top"...but I don't understand this urge to turn all of the problems Canada faces around on the Syrian refugees. If the concern is that our Veterans need more support, we have a ministry devoted entirely to them. That ministry has its own budget and objectives and absolutely NOTHING to do with the refugee stream of immigration. You can hardly expect the government to bring a refugee of war to our nation and not provide them adequate health care for a term of 1 year while they settle. And while I am 100% with you that there are other areas of this nation in DIRE need of additional resources, we have to realize that the ministries responsible have been creating these issues for years. This current influx of refugees didn't create the issues.     Edited by Mela, 2015-12-01 13:51:21"

I don't totally disagree with you. Like I said I am not saying not to bring in refugees. Where I am in disagreement, is the money being spend with "providing them with adequate health care for a term of 1 year", while we are not providing our own people first.  
Yes we have ministries devoted entirely to them, but they are not still not getting the free services they so deserve.  
And no, this is not the refugees fault but imo our own "house" should be clean before we open the doors.

lovetooshop said "    Enfyre said "If your born in Canada and speak English or French, and not disabled in a anyway, then if you can't afford dental or vision, then the root cause of that is your own bad decision making or incompetence in some way shape or form, and that's your own fault.     Refugees are at no fault of their own, and if we're taking them in, they should be checked and treated for rotten teeth and vision problems, and provided with English or French language training, so they can adjust in canada and get jobs and become taxpayers too, the faster this happens the less the overall program costs to current taxpayers.     How the heck would you expect someone to adjust if they have a throbbing toothache and can't see clearly? " expect the poor veteran who lives in my community that fought for your freedom (among other things) and now is mentally ill because of what he seen and did in those trenches, live with his throbbing toothache???? He has been living with it for years I might add!   Oh ya, you say that was HIS bad decision making?   Remember Enfyre, it may have been his "incompetence" (your words) that gave you the freedom you have today!   To heck with him, we have refugees to support!!   "

The last time Canada's freedom was at risk was the war of 1812, but I won't get into that.  
 
I'll assume since he's still alive that he must have been a very young man when the war ended(you say trenches, so I'm assuming WW2) at that point he had an entire lifetime ahead of him to make responsible financial decisions, which obviously he didn't make.  
Plently of other WW2 veterans went on to choose careers and/or frugal lifestyles that allowed them to have ample retirement savings, what's the difference between them and him? Bad decision making or financial incompetence.  
 
If his mental illness was so severe that it impacted his decision-making abilities, then that would qualify as a form of disability, and therefore what I said is not applicable to him. He should apply to veterans affairs for disability benefits and get that tooth pulled, as it usually only costs about 125$.

Papax2 said "Now if they need more money for the refugees which department would get hit. Most if not all so the vets dept could see less along with others. Its going to come down to what is more important and where is the resources needed. Well the vets been on the street for a while whats a bit more. WRONG. People are looking at the refugees as the most important and if they must rob another dept (as they most likely will have to as this will go way over budget) so be it. The millions plus they are spending or going to spend could be used in places to alleviate so of what is wrong here now but public opinion says we need to help around the world without regard for what is happening in Canada. "

I must have missed the data to support the claim that Veterans Affairs or any other department will forfeit any of their budget for Immigration and Citizenship's budget. The government hardly processed any refugees this year compared to other years. In that regard, this commitment will really only add about 10,000 or so to the number we usually process. It's only that the media has been completely saturated with the story that it seems like such a massive burden on our society.  
 
Just 2 years ago when Haiyan hit the Philippians, Canada pledged 40 million in support, sent hundreds of soldiers to clear debris, made increases to the live-in-caregiver program and fast-tracked Filipino refugee claims...and it didn't receive a tangible percentage of the negative backlash that this has brought about. I just think that our elected government wouldn't intentionally lead Canadians down the path to hell. I'm pretty sure they've got a plan here. Let's see what it is.

A couple of points -  
 
1. Trench warfare was WWI, not WWII or anytime after that. (1914-1918). Anyone still alive would be at least 98+18=116 years old. Highly unlikely. There are services for veterans (which Harper's regime saw fit to reduce) who suffer from PTSD and other health issues. I am sure most homeless people are mentally ill and should be in care BUT in Manitoba the NDP eliminated most large Mental Health Facilities... I am not sure about the rest of Canada.  
 
I have a son who has been homeless and has mental health issues and trust me: he has the ability and resources to get an apartment, he has access to medical and dental (Total coverage).... I am SURE if my handicapped son can get those things, veterans can.  
 
2. The free dental and health care the Liberals are so "generously" giving are for (medical) sicknesses that endanger the public and/or the person's life and dental emergency only - not cleaning, scaling, etc. It is BASIC medical and dental, not full. (A quick search will show that the Cons had this as well but it was eliminated because they "felt refugees were applying to get better health and dental" - right... lol. Logic would debunk this idea.  
 
Educate  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2015-12-01 15:03:53

Trenches were used in WW2 and later. Just until recently PTSD is now an illness but a lot of vets lived with it which ruined their and others lives and which was not considered a disability. So what your saying is the doctors and dentists are giving free medical ..............  
You need to educate .......  
This money the government is spending has to come from somewhere as it was most likely earmarked to something important in Canada but is now transferred to refugees.

all boils down to the fact that people are suffering... we are being taxed so high here in Brandon Manitoba and the cost of living is too high. We have to make hard choices when it comes to spending our dollars lest we can't afford to pay the taxman.  
 
And no... this all doesn't come down to people making poor choices with their finances.  
 
CTV Winnipeg news had a story about the food banks in their city and how they are worried because the need for free food is going to increase because of the refugees that will be coming to their city. How many times have we heard that the food banks are empty and to please donate? It is going to get a lot worse people!

"As It Happens" (Tuesday December 01, 2015)  
Via CBC:  
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/aih-dec-1-15-refugees-small-centres-mexico-surfers-urine-anti-splash-part-1-1.3346258?autoplay=true  
Refugees small centres (starts at 1 min 50 sec).  
To critics who say Syrian refugees can't get the support they need if they're settled outside big cities, our guest presents Exhibit A: a family of fourteen, making a home in Bloomfield, Ontario.  
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by NotEdelman, 2015-12-01 18:47:22

who cares!!! Are you sponsoring a family? From what I read of yours is that you only want them here to work at Maple Leaf!!  
 
The city SHOULD NOT be a direct sponsor of any refugees. If the Province sends some our way, OK. And as for Mr. Chrest not whinning to the Province to get some refugees, I'm fine with it.

ME has plenty of labour on offer. Germany is buying, US .is buying, Canada is buying... except for Brandon. They are relatively inexpensive. The TFW is winding down...when the manpower is not here, then neither will industry.

NotEdelman said "ME has plenty of labour on offer. Germany is buying, US .is buying, Canada is buying... except for Brandon. They are relatively inexpensive. The TFW is winding down...when the manpower is not here, then neither will industry. "

What the heck are you talking about?? What industries are you talking about? And what manpower are you talking about?  
 
Edited by Trevor B, 2015-12-01 21:26:16

Took a few minutes to check out your link, first off I would say that it is not the town that is buying into the refugees but sponsoring groups and individuals. They did have good turnouts at meetings held to find peole that would volunteer to help. A few question that do come up is population of the area as well as number of people of similar ethnic back ground. We could look at what is happening here in Manitoba with the sponsoring of families in the Altona area, but once again it is not the city that is doing the sponsoring but religious groups or interested individuals. Making comparisons of farming and even business, that this family is used to, is sort of a mistake, getting into farming is getting to be a difficult job for the kids of established farmers so the idea that this family will get back into farming is more of a dream than a reality, and the lady even admitted that the family might not even still be in the community a year from now.  
 
As for needing these people to keep industry going, is sort of like saying that Mapleleaf has done restructuring,in the last week or two, because of a shortage of workers from other countries. Industry will adapt if there is a shortage of these workers you are so worried about, Manitoba's number is around 2000 refugees, and that number may seem like a lot but is sort of insignificant when looking at the whole province.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2015-12-01 21:51:35

Here's a map of the places the have applied to sponsor refugees.  
 
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/refugees/welcome/map.asp?_ga=1.70392281.859762380.1449014309

As posted before from CKLQ. The City of Brandon's response to the refugees.  
 
http://www.cklq.com/index.php?id=62&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=9714&cHash=72924ea23c9daea8391cac6dbc96860f  
 
From Larry Maguire  
http://www.portageonline.com/local/46592-larry-refugees  
 
And the Hotline setup by the MEMO and the Canadian Red Cross.  
http://www.brandonsun.com/breaking-news/Hotline-created-to-aid-Syrian-refugees--358904331.html  
 
There's nowhere that I see where the City of Brandon has refused to take in refugees.

Papax2 said "Trenches were used in WW2 and later. Just until recently PTSD is now an illness but a lot of vets lived with it which ruined their and others lives and which was not considered a disability. So what your saying is the doctors and dentists are giving free medical ..............   You need to educate .......   This money the government is spending has to come from somewhere as it was most likely earmarked to something important in Canada but is now transferred to refugees. "

Trenches, foxholes, tunnels - all used after WWI BUT they were not the norm (Except tunnels in Vietnam) like they were in WWI. My grandfather on my mother's side fought in the trenches, losing the bottom half of one of his legs. When someone mentions "fighting in the trenches" or "trench warfare" they would normally be indicating WWI as the trenches were where the lines were drawn between the opposing forces. After WWI there was very little use for them - due to tanks, better equipped and constructed planes, etc..... So yes, I was incorrect by inferring it was only in WWI, it was not.... but that has no bearing on the point I was making.  
 
Drs and dentists do not give "free care" - where did I state that they did??? I meant refugees will get limited free dental and medical via the government in far less amounts than a person on welfare or disability would get. I know what a person on income assistance gets/is allowed: I dealt with it for years because of my son - he was incapable of even filling out the required forms.  
 
If you want to be outraged by people "using the system" then be outraged by young parents who have babies to get the benefits but are entirely capable of working (YES, they do exist!!) - and yes, I am aware of a shortfall of day care.... but it is not always for that reason they don't work.  
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by Cee Jay 55, 2015-12-02 00:26:01

They could set up tents.  
 
It would be good for the Polar Bears.

That idea was tried with some of our First Nations people in the fifties, and the results were terrible to say the least, ignoring history usually isn't a wise thing to do.

NotEdelman said ""As It Happens" (Tuesday December 01, 2015)   Via CBC:   http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/aih-dec-1-15-refugees-small-centres-mexico-surfers-urine-anti-splash-part-1-1.3346258?autoplay=true   Refugees small centres (starts at 1 min 50 sec).   To critics who say Syrian refugees can't get the support they need if they're settled outside big cities, our guest presents Exhibit A: a family of fourteen, making a home in Bloomfield, Ontario.             Edited by NotEdelman, 2015-12-01 18:47:22"

privately sponsored? No doubt. if so the group that sponsored them will take good care of them.  
 
Remember there is a shortage of housing in Brandon right now. Where could we fit a large family like the one listed above?

I don't watch much TV news...  
 
Are people hearing the reports that few refugees even want to come to Canada?  
 
And that since there is low interest from families we will definitely be bringing in single males to meet the quota?