Discussions

Hello. What does every body think of a home daycare taking holidays but still charging fill price even when their closed? It doesn't seem fair to me that I cannt take my kids their but they still want me to pay. Its not stat holidays ether, its regular days. I have to ether take time off from my job to take care of my kids or pay another babysitter. chistmas is expensive enuf and now I have to pay for extra days for nothing. Usually I get my daycare a nice present, but not this year. end rant.

Maybe giving them a day off is a gift enough. Maybe I'm a bit too simple minded, but if you deserve to get paid days off in your work, then why don't they?....just a thought.

if you are working for yourself and self employed, you don't usually get paid vacation. plus, now I have to pay daycare, plus ether pay a babysitter or take time off from my job that I don't get paid for. I do no that daycare works hard and that's why I always get a nice gift. if they want to take a day off, that's okay by me, but hard to jusify having to still pay full price.

As a provider, I agree with you. Any of my holidays are unpaid.  
 
When I decided to become self employed, I knew I would be giving up some things that I was used to having when I had an employer but I’d also be gaining different benefits that I didn’t have when I worked out of the home. We can’t have it all after all! Haha

yes, Thank you. Doing daycare has lots of benefits and lots of down sides. Its a tuff job, but most jobs are tuff. One of the perks is that you get to close every year for the holidays if you want to. One of the down sides is that you don't get paid for it.

Well I suppose we all have different opinions, which is fine.  
 
Edited by PowerOfaMom, 2019-11-13 08:48:26

I still pay for daycare even when my kids aren't there, as long as their open. If I keep my kids home for a holiday or if their sick or if we go on a vacation, I still pay daycare full price. that happens lots propably at least 15 or 20 days every year, plus the days that my daycare is closed. usually they diddnt charge me when they were closed, so I could afford to take extra days off work without getting payed or pay for a babysitter. they are changing soon thow. that's why I am upset.  
 
Edited by XOXOXO, 2019-11-13 08:51:03

How long is your daycare closed? Is it something that just got changed? Maybe you can take your holidays at the same time so that you don’t have to pay someone else?  
 
As for the gift don’t worry about it. Give a nice card instead.

Their closed on dec 27. 30 and 31 which they still want payed full price for, which I no is kind of like holidays but not stats. I cannt always take my holidays at the same time becuz I only get days off around xmas every other year and my partner does shift work. but even if we diddnt have to work that's not the point. its the principal of wanting to get paid but not providing the service. I understand that they want to take the days off and that is okay. I am just upset that I still have to pay daycare. plus this year I also have to pay another babysitter for the times that both my partner and I have to work. if daycare wanted payed holidays they should save up throw the year off of what they already charge me, like lots of jobs do.

I know lots of daycares that take paid days off/paid sick days/personal days. There are lots that do not. It is all up to the individual provider.  
 
If the provider had it in her contract then it is what it is. If it’s something she just decided was going to happen then she should have given more notice.

I agree with you that it should be the providers responsibility to pay for their time off and not their clients responsibility. If the service isn’t being provided, it’s unfair to charge for it imo. I completely understand why you’re annoyed and frustrated. It would be hard for many families, financially.  
 
Did your provider follow her contract and give the proper notice of change? If she didn’t, she is in breach of her contract. If she did, all I can suggest is to look for another daycare that has policies that you agree with and give your proper notice of withdrawal. Good luck

So you don’t charge daycare family’s for your sick days, any days you are off/closed or any stat holidays? I’m not trying to be rude just getting a feel how some daycares operate.

Correct, I don’t charge for my sick days or holidays. If they’re sick or on holidays and I’m open, they still pay however. I think this is pretty standard for most home daycares but there’s some who do it differently.  
 
If you’re a provider, PM me  
 
Edited by sammy, 2019-11-13 13:12:41

I am self employed, and I do not get paid holidays. I don’t work, I don’t get paid. It’s not the same as working for someone else where the company is responsible for paid vacation and other benefits. I am responsible to set my own hours and take my time off as I see fit. The government still regulates my wage, but that is all.  
We chose to be self employed, whether that is daycare or something else. I cannot expect my clients to give me money for nothing in return. One of the benefits of being self employed is being able to have the flexibility to choose our hours and have much more flexibility for holidays, etc. There is not that kind of flexibility when you work for someone else, so a perk is getting paid time off and sick days, etc. The only time a self employed person should get paid for no service in return is if the client forgoes the use of the service. Ie. a child is away from daycare ill for the day or chooses to go on holidays.  
As a self employed person or a home daycare provider, if we are not available to provide our service, then our clients have to go elsewhere and pay money for that same service. So why would we expect them to pay for our time off as well as another provider on top of that. So a person owns a small restaurant, decides to shut down to go on summer vacation for a couple weeks, but they still expect their regular customers to pay for some food they didn’t eat? Sounds kind of silly.

I don't mind paying for stat days. I just donnt think its fair to pay for daycares sick days and the regular holidays days that arenot stat days. thks to Sammy and jellybean. you said it better then I did ! the problem is what I can do about it. I am stuck at ether paying all this xtra money or trying to find a new daycare that is more fair.

Well I am the odd one out here and do get some paid time off every year. I personally think that if a provider uses the excuse of I am closed so I won't charge should apply to stats as well. I do not understand how one is ok but the other is not. For me it is my contract and I can make my own rules. When I decided to add in paid days off it was in lieu of increasing my rate. In the end it works out in my parent's favor to go that way. If I would have had my families complain about it then I could always change it by taking out the paid days but increasing the daily fee.  
 
It makes me sad that you are upset over 3 paid days. Is this something that was in your providers contract? Did you not read it and agree to her terms? If she gave you plenty of notice then there is really no reason for you to be upset. You would have had plenty of time to prepare for the time off she had. If she just told you about it then I would definitely talk to her about it. Does her contract give a timeline of how much notice she will give you for contract changes?  
 
Like others have said, there are many providers out there that do not charge. If it is something you are upset enough about then definitely find a provider that is more on track with what you are looking for.  
 
Personally I don't think she isn't being fair.

Their isnnt really a contract. Daycare sends emails to the familys so that all of the terms are in writing and gets confirmasion that the emails have been read. once their is confirmasion that the email is read its like the same as doing a contract. daycare sent email about the xtra payed days off in the summer but at the time I diddnt no if I was going to be working or not for the holidays. now, that I no that I am going to be paying my cousin for a babysitter some days too I am not sure what to do. I talked to daycare about it when I found out about my work schedule but daycare says that those are the new terms from her on out becuz they want to be closed for the holidays but cannt afford to not be payed for a hole week. I think if you cannt afford to not be payed for a hole week than you shouldn't take a hole week off or try to get a different job that pays for holidays.  
I donnt mind paying for stat days because I get those days off to and I get payed for them and I think that its fair that if daycare is usually open regular business hours usually then they should get stat days payed to and the same as the days that my kids are sick or on vacation if daycare is open. I already pay for lots of days that my kids arennt at daycare and it just doesnnt seem fair to pay to for days that daycare is closed that isnnt stats when I ether donnt get payed or have to pay some other babysitter.

I understand your frustration over the situation but it was something she told you about in summer. You agreed to it then. Now that the situation has changed for you that is not her responsibility to accommodate you. Whether it is right or wrong to you or others it is what she is doing. She gave you plenty of notice. It doesn't matter if she can afford to take time off or not, this is something she has decided to do as part of her business and you had agreed.  
 
You can get a pile of people who agree with you on this thread but that won't change what is going to happen.

I no that what you say is true. I just wanted to post to see if I was being ridiculous for thinking that it wasnnt fair or if its normel. I do think that I will start looking for a knew daycare and hopefully I will find one before xmas so I can give enuf notice and not pay for the days off. I donnt want to screw daycare over becuz my kids really like it their but my familys finances have to come first before daycares finances becuz I just cannt afford to pay for daycare to take time off when I am not getting payed or using my holidays on days I didnnt want to take off or have to pay somebody else. it just isnnt fair or morel to me.

Paid stats are a tricky one, I’ll admit. However, statutory holidays are days that the whole country/province celebrates and different than personal holidays. Many of these days, most things are closed. It’s days where people are celebrating holidays and taking time to rest. Most parents are okay paying for these days because they are getting paid and not working so they’re not inconvenienced. (Or at least one parent is home and being paid in some cases) They want to spend time with their children and want their providers to spend time with their families as well and take that time to rest and relax. In some cases, a provider might not even be able to open on a stat holiday because with their family home, they would be over their ratio. These days should all be outlined in their contract so parents know of these days far in advance. If they don’t agree with it, they don’t sign on with that provider  
 
When a provider takes paid holidays, this is a larger inconvenience to their clients because the parent is working, paying their provider and paying a babysitter. It’s also usually unknown days and harder to plan for in advance until the provider picks her days off. This can for sure be a financial hit to the parent and some feel it’s unfair for the parents to pay for a providers time off and not the provider herself, with the money she is paid already. Most people don’t take holidays if they can’t afford it, not pass that expense on to someone else. Especially for self employed people.  
 
If it’s in the contract before signing on, then obviously it shouldn’t be a problem. It’s when we change our contract that it becomes a concern for some parents and rightfully so as It’s not what they initially agreed too. This is why when I make a change to my own contract, I am always prepared for families to leave if they don’t agree to the changes. Thankfully I’ve never run into this issue but I always keep it in the back of my mind! It’s a risk we take when we alter the agreement between ourselves and our clients.  
 
Every provider will operate a bit differently and do what works best for them...this is why it’s so important for parents to sign on with a provider that has policies that they agree too.  
 
Going forward, if the OP decides to stay where she is at, I would be asking the provider if these are the only days she’ll be adding. Or will spring break roll around and she decides she wants a holiday but can’t afford it so will be closing with pay again? The provider isn’t likely to change her rule so it’s up to the OP to decide if they want to stay or go.  
 
For providers, I would encourage considering increasing your program fee rather than adding paid days off as this seems to be more accepted amongst parents. (I mean, no one WANTS to pay for things we aren’t receiving right?) Then set that extra money aside for your holidays Even a $1 increase per day per child will give you enough to cover a week off...$2 a day would allow 2 weeks off etc.

Should be simple.  
-If they close due to a stat holiday it is reasonable to ask for payment from parents.  
-If it is booked vacation time off for the provider no fees should be collected if daycare is closed during that time.  
-If provider takes time off and wants parents to pay for day provider should make alternate arrangements with a fill in person for time away.  
 
And likewise for parents. Even if they pull child from daycare for a vacation or day away, they should still be charged the regular daycare rate.

Because it is difficult enough to find daycare placements and you are always scared that you might lose the place but it is pretty obvious that this operator is acting in poor faith and preying on parents that have little choice but to go along with whatever she says.  
Would you be able to discretely talk to other parents that use that daycare and get their opinion?  
It should be cut and dry though, if you don’t receive the service then you shouldn’t be paying for it. That would be the same as me getting paid for grain that I never deliver. The economy does not work that way!  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2019-11-13 18:58:51

It’s hard to argue with what fishing guy said.  
Long hours, near minimum wage, and dealing with the occasional entitled parent. Show me a daycare provider you trust your kids with and I will show you an angel.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2019-11-13 20:27:49

A contract is not binding unless signed by both parties , a signature means everything. Even then if part of that contract was deemed unlawful it would not stand up. I don’t think that legally it is reasonable or ethical to charge for services not rendered. It would be in your and the daycares interest to enter into a legal written term contract on paper. I would not do this without consulting a lawyer. I have been in similar circumstances when the other party refused to enter into a written contract with me. I walked away. Not so easy for you to do though!  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2019-11-13 23:28:57

Choosing to walk away from potentially a great daycare over 3 days when daycare in Brandon is very hard to come by and finding a good one that you trust is even harder. If your kids love it there I would suggest just sticking it out. It is their daycare and their rules whether or not you agree with them. They didn’t do anything wrong and yes if you don’t agree then you are free to leave and find other care but take a step back and breathe/calm down and think about whether or not your over reacting. They aren’t taking advantage of you or a situation at all. In the outline of the new rules they gave you, how many paid vacation days will they be using a year? How much notice will you have before finding out what the days are? If you find a daycare that is as great as the one you have in the next few weeks your lucky. However the situation goes if you do change providers please make sure you give 2-4 weeks notice.

I think maybe you are missing something...  
 
Daycares can charge you to HOLD YOUR SPOT so maybe you aren’t “paying for their holidays” but rather paying full price as a guaranteed full time spot so that you aren’t on the “bump” list when they are full. I gladly pay for thst.  
 
Also, my daycare is closed for the entire week if Christmas so there are a lot of parents who have to work around it. Always have a backup.

There any code of conduct that a daycare is supposed to adhere to ? It might be worth checking that out with professional advice. It is unfair to charge for a service not provided.

Your provider more than likely loves your kids and works hard, long days looking after them. Your kids likely love her too and enjoy going there. She opens her home to you and your family everyday.  
 
She gave you plenty of notice of her time off and told you she expected it as paid days. It’s 3 days! You were fine with it up until now. Not sure why.  
 
She has done nothing wrong and I sure hope she doesn’t read this thread. She will likely be upset and heartbroken that you have come on here to bash her.  
 
Don’t you want the person looking after the most precious people in your life to feel happy, rested, rejuvenated and appreciated?

In Manitoba, Licensed daycares are paid stat holidays for all the subsidized children.  
 
Fun fact:  
Daycare providers are paid so poorly in Manitoba that they could qualify for subsidize daycare spots for their own children!

Yes, providers charge for the space and if a client wants to leave for any amount of days, tuition is still owed because yes the space is being held for them...this doesn’t apply to when the provider closes though. There is no space to be held because the space won’t be getting filled because the provider is off and closed.  
 
There are actually plenty of great providers in Brandon. If you’re not happy where you are, don’t feel like you need to be stuck. I wouldn’t want any of my clients to ever feel like they’re stuck with me. This turns into a bitter, resentful relationship over time.  
 
I definitely agree that providers need and deserve time off...but the issue for this parent isn’t that she doesn’t think her provider should take the time off, she just feels that the provider should pay for it herself.  
 
I remember a more experienced provider once telling me that if clients paid us for holidays, it turns it into a more employee/employer relationship and I don’t know about other daycares, but I don’t want that. I am my own employer/employee (the money I contribute to my CPP proves this hehe) so I pay for my own time off and then I don’t feel like I work for them. This is my business and I’m the boss lol.