Discussions

The city of Brandon wants to offer residents a $100 rebate on water filters.  
 
The area affected by this issue is indicated on the map posted by the Brandon Sun in 2013.  
 
http://www.brandonsun.com/breaking-news/Lead-found-in-Brandon-water-190260161.html?thx=y  
 
The amount of taxes associated with every single house in Brandon can be found on the Brandon gis website, and you can search every house individually.  
 
http://gis.brandon.ca/flex/PropertySearch.html?ver=3290482#  
 
The homeowners in the affected areas all pay over $2500 in taxes per year. There are a lot of houses affected.  
 
A rough idea of what one water filter will cost is found on Amazon.ca  
 
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=node%3D680337011&field-keywords=lead+water+filter  
 
No one should be impressed with the City of Brandon's Band-Aid solution. We need new water lines, not more chemicals added to the water.

Brewboy ?  
 
You mentioned the taxes that residents already pay. You also say that we need new water lines.  
 
Are you advocating for higher taxes to pay for a massive project to replace the water lines ? If so, should it be done as a local improvement so that the affected homeowners pay for the job, or should all city taxpayers pay for it ?

I think what he's getting at is that we pay enough taxes that this issue should be resolved. I feel somewhat the same.  
 
The fact that they're offering these rebates is actually quite laughable. First off, no filter will remove 100% of lead - you can only achieve that with other water processing techniques such as distilling. So while it might reduce the amount of lead in the water, it won't eliminate it.  
 
Secondly, unless you're installing a whole-house system you're only addressing the drinking water. You're not addressing the water used for washing dishes, bathing, etc. While it's supposed to be safe to use the water for these uses because lead is not easily absorbed via the skin, you have to wonder... does it leave a residue? What about the water that gets inhaled via your shower (that gets nebulized by your showerhead)? What about young children accidently ingesting it during a bath?  
 
I, personally, would be okay with paying a bit extra on my taxes or even a one-time surtax to pay for fixing this problem with replacing the needed waterlines. Every resident should have confidence in the water coming out of their tap, for us to to NOT have that makes it a failure on the part of this community.

Years ago when the lead lines were put in it was the builder who hired a plumber not the city who put in those lead lines.  
 
Back in the 70''''s there was a local plumber who trying to make a few extra dollars put in plastic PVC lines rather than copper lines in certain areas of the city. These lines have been breaking every year in the spring and sometimes in the winter. Costs to replace/repair have been in the $3000 to $5000 range. The homeowner is the one who has had to pay for the repair not the city. So now a precedent has been set, I think it should be the homeowner who pays for replacing the lead pipes, not the taxpayers of the rest of the city.  
 
Perhaps the city could put a surcharge on the affected taxpayers tax bill to pay for the replacement over a number of years. In any event the rest of the city not affected should not be picking up the costs on replacing the lines from the property line to the house.  
 
Edited by Blade, 2016-06-22 09:58:20

I don't think we are talking about paying "a bit extra" for the cost of this solution. My guess is that it would cost more than $1000 per residence, just to replace the water main. Then there is the cost of the line from the main to the interior of each property. I would guess that this would be at least another $1000 per residence.  
 
I am not a contractor and these are only low-ball guesses on my part.  
 
While we may believe that the city should cover these costs, who is "the city" ? It is us. We will have to pay for this.  
 
If the city does go ahead with this, should it be the individual residents who pay for repairs as a local improvement, or should it be all city taxpayers ?

Everyone seems to be combating utilizing taxes to fix this at every turn, but in some ways, this could be seen as a public health emergency. Who knows how this has affected children, growing up drinking this water, and how many it will affect. I supose a good way to check that would be to measure how Brandon''s rates of common mental issues (often) attributeable t to lead compare to other communities.  
 
But yes, this is a big job for just the city. Which is why the province should just write a cheque and solve the ENTIRE provincial lead problem in one false swoop, and be done with it.  
 
Edited by Simonwalcal, 2016-06-22 10:44:14

standard standard h8r said "I don't think we are talking about paying "a bit extra" for the cost of this solution. My guess is that it would cost more than $1000 per residence, just to replace the water main. Then there is the cost of the line from the main to the interior of each property. I would guess that this would be at least another $1000 per residence.     I am not a contractor and these are only low-ball guesses on my part.     While we may believe that the city should cover these costs, who is "the city" ? It is us. We will have to pay for this.     If the city does go ahead with this, should it be the individual residents who pay for repairs as a local improvement, or should it be all city taxpayers ? "

Than $1000 per residence.  
 
We are one of the houses affected. Our lines are so old and calcified we have extremely poor water flow on top of the outrageously higher than allowed lead content. There is no inspector around that would have done an inspection to see if the house had lead lines or even checked the flow so that we could make an informed decision before we bought the house. (The lack of credentials for inspectors is mind boggling - but that is another thread entirely.)  
 
We have been debating this for years. I have no issue replacing the portion of the lines that are on my property. We will have to budget or take a loan for it.  
 
What I have issue with is the city not paying for ALL of the portion that is on city property. We have been getting quotes of around $13,000 to 15,000 now. Over half of that is on city land, not my property - and they will only cover HALF of the portion that is on their property. So in a round term - if their portion is $7000, they will only cover $3500, leaving me with the bulk of the cost.  
 
What I have also now been told is the city expects the homeowner to upgrade the finishes on CITY property as well - so what they are doing is taking advantage of the homeowner to upgrade THEIR property. (Details of that I am not clear on, that is how the contractor explained it to me in laymans terms) And what will we get for that? Safer drinking water yes - but will the city then turn around and re assess my home as a thank you for helping them fix their water mains??  
 
As for this ridiculous water filter "rebate". Give me a break. A DECENT water filter for the home costs over $300. Yes, you can get cheapo systems for ONE TAP like the OP posted a link to. What about the other rooms that my kids use to brush their teeth with? Not all potable water is used in one faucet in a house.  
 
And someone needs to explain to me the math that council came up with in this article -  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/brandon-water-filter-rebate-1.3646458  
 
They have budgeted $600,000 to do this program.  
 
3600 homes at $100 each is only $360,000. If they upgrade to the higher end of that count and allow 5000 homes that still is only $500,000. Can someone explain to me why they would need to budget $100,000+ for administration of this program?  
 
Maybe we need to cut some very top heavy administration costs in this city to ensure safe drinking water for all residents??

I don't know anything about class action lawsuits. Is there anyone who could weigh in on this? There are thousands of people affected by the lead water, including elder people and children.  
 
Edited by Brewboy, 2016-06-22 11:53:50

Brewboy said "I don't know anything about class action lawsuits. Is there anyone who could weigh in on this? There are thousands of people affected by the lead water, including elder people and children.     Edited by Brewboy, 2016-06-22 11:53:50"

Any recourse at all for effected homeowners.  
 
As a friend in Ontario just pointed out to me (after she read about this on CBC) - this is the same city council that is considering spending $11 million (probably lowball) on a FOOT BRIDGE, but refuse to ensure safe drinking water to all residents? Maybe someone should ask Flint, Michigan what happens when you start undercutting on peoples' safety.  
 
Maybe Michael Moore would like to stop by good old Brandon for a visit....

@ Standard Standard h8r  
 
The city has an engineering section that oversees all projects. Regardless of the timeline, the City is responsible for allowing a contractor to install the fittings. The City can not absolve itself from the responsibility of Stewardship.  
 
Just because the houses are not valued at $300,000+ does not give the residence living in the non affected areas an excuse to balk at the other half''s situation.  
 
When you live in a city you become a taxpayer, you become responsible for your entire community (not just your little plot of land). How much money was diverted into saving the people living in the flood plains in 2011?  
 
The way you worded your comment you are suggesting that a family like mine, who house was built on high ground, should not have had its taxed allocated to saving the homes of other Brandonites!  
 
You are wrong to suggest that every other Brandonite is absolved from this situation. This is a community concern.  
 
Edited by Brewboy, 2016-06-22 12:06:50

The lead content in the water has had a negative effect on the people living in the affected area.  
 
Cheers!

Honestly, our city of Brandon has known for years that certain parts needed intense updating when it comes to our pipes. However, for years for some reasons instead of fixing what needed to be fixed our city keeps wasting it's money on things it doesn't need. Even as far as ripping up and redoing roads that were perfectly fine.  
 
The pipes is an issue that the city knew about and it has been mentioned only a few times but never directly addressed. Why are they only addressing/admitting that there is a problem now?  
 
On top of that... Why are they only offering 100$? If this really is true and there is lead in our water then they might need to offer compensation to the people who already have the long term effects of drinking lead infested water.  
 
There is very serious long term effects when one is injecting lead especially for long periods of time. This is a very serious issue and needs to be treated as such.  
 
I for one am right in the middle of that effected zone. I am worried about my family, knowing full and well that if this is true this is very serious.

Replacement of home water mains are the responsibility of the home owner, no different than ruptured plastic mains or damaged copper. It is on your property and is the responsibility of the homeowner. Costs generally go from $2000-$6000, depending on if sidewalks and sections of streets need to be opened up. Also if you change out the cast drain line in the same trench at the same time, recommended.  
 
A whole home filtration system will run you $800-$1200. Call Brandon Heating and Plumbing for a free quote.

I live in the affected area as well. I also don't think it's fair that I am paying the same property taxes as someone who has standard and updated city water lines. I would rather have a rebate on my property taxes, and something more than the price of a water filter. I don't care who installed the water lines 100 years ago, they are still on city owned land and should be corrected by the City. I am so tired of the City taking more money for property taxes but completely putting their hands up in the air when something like this happens.

whoaskedyou said "Replacement of home water mains are the responsibility of the home owner, no different than ruptured plastic mains or damaged copper. It is on your property and is the responsibility of the homeowner. Costs generally go from $2000-$6000, depending on if sidewalks and sections of streets need to be opened up. Also if you change out the cast drain line in the same trench at the same time, recommended.     A whole home filtration system will run you $800-$1200. Call Brandon Heating and Plumbing for a free quote. "

We are all aware that Brandon Home Heating can help us with a Band-Aid solution. We homeowners want a lifetime solution to a problem that should never have been allowed to happen.

at my comments, Brewboy.  
 
I asked the question: "If the city does go ahead with this, should it be the individual residents who pay for repairs as a local improvement, or should it be all city taxpayers ?"  
 
The question had two alternatives, but no suggestion. There are several who have offered their opinion on the matter.

I live in the affected area. I haven't been advised by anyone about this, or offered the filter rebate. How is everyone hearing about this? Shouldn't the City be contacting/proving info directly to the homes affected?

We purchased our house on Louise off of our uncle after he succumb to a mystery illness that doctors have not yet diagnosed. He became sluggish, and fatigued. He could no longer get up and down the stairs. His speech became stuttered and he complained of tingling and numbness. Oh and look, here is an abbreviated list of symptoms of lead poisoning:  
 
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lead-poisoning/basics/symptoms/con-20035487  
 
He was in his early 50s.  
 
Edited by Brewboy, 2016-06-22 13:24:12

standard standard h8r said "at my comments, Brewboy.     I asked the question: "If the city does go ahead with this, should it be the individual residents who pay for repairs as a local improvement, or should it be all city taxpayers ?"     The question had two alternatives, but no suggestion. There are several who have offered their opinion on the matter. "

It should be the city who pays because it was the City who would have signed off on the work permits to have the lead water works installed in the first place. Building plans might not have been scrutinized in the past to the same standard that they are today: however, the City's oversight allowed the lead materials to be installed and the City can not absolve itself from its responsibility.  
 
A garage that encroaches onto public land is a engineering oversight that we can all live with, and it make since to allow these sort of things to be grandfathered in. Lead waterworks should not be grandfathered.

jess13 said "I live in the affected area. I haven't been advised by anyone about this, or offered the filter rebate. How is everyone hearing about this? Shouldn't the City be contacting/proving info directly to the homes affected? "

To the article by CBC and other media outlets, homes in the effected area will be notified by letter mail. I believe it said later NEXT month.  
 
you can also look on line at the City of Brandon website. Last I looked the info is very minimal, but you should be able to get someone to speak to at least.  
 
 
I know information has been very poorly handled in the past . It was a different city council in charge when the first round of testing began a few years back, and we were disappointed by the apathy and lack of information from the city.  
 
It truly is one of those situations that various city councils over the years have known SOMETHING has to be done, but they always put it on the back burner for the next council to have to address. Make it someone else's problem....  
 
Look at how long the various councils have known work was needed on the 8th st bridge until it could no longer be ignored, and now it is an even pricier set of options.

Although this is a serious problem, it's not just the City of Brandon with this issue. Cities all over North America used lead piping for water supply lines.The city of Toronto is perhaps 5 years ahead of us in terms of getting a handle on things, but they aren't done yet and have much the same plan in terms of dealing with cost sharing and use of water filters as short term solutions.  
 
It's going to take quite a while to get all the lead pipes changed, and it's going to be costly for all concerned. Short term, any affected homes would be far better off with a good filtration system than just waiting for the lead pipes to be changed. The city is offering to help with the cost of that now, it's a step in the right direction.