Discussions

Spades!! said "If you go to dogstardaily.com and read up on bite inhibition and the bite scale you will see these dogs are beyond rehab.   A dog that bites but does not puncture the skin can be rehabbed. A dog that kills another dog or animal cannot and needs to be put down. It’s all about teaching your dog bite inhibition. Usually they learn this at the puppy stage. But it still needs to be reinforced by the human owners. A dog that has never been taught gentle pressure with the mouth as a puppy often will never learn it as an adult dog. These dogs can be dangerous.     If you all are wondering where are my references for this then go to dogstardaily.com and read the articles "

Not every dog can be saved but some can and should have the chance. Why kill an animal if you don't need to. Dogs have become very trainable in the last two hundred years, and in the past 50 we have learned a lot about dog behavior that we have become successful in rehabilitating them. here is an article about the fighting dogs from Michel Vick about the saving of some of them. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/dog-fighting-rehab-1.3475485

On CTV news this morning they said they have an email from the dog owner so. It says they are covering any vet bills and trying to help any other way he can also stayed at scene until lady was gone. Accidents do happen. It’s not like this person is hiding there dogs and running from the problem. It’s a sad story on all sides.

The source I cited is from a Veterinarian who is a well known Canine Behaviouralist. He has worked with Dogs for 45 plus years. He started the whole puppy class culture. He works with Dogs who have aggression issues. He offers Dogs every chance to be retrained to live a happy life. Even he says that a dog without bite inhibition and who have a history of serious bites that cause injury and death as an adult dog poses a serious risk. You will spend years retraining the aggression issues resulting in a quieter dog but that dog will be unpredictable in its bite reaction.  
While I agree with you every dog has the right to a happy life but at what cost? At what risk are we willing to subject our kids to a dog with a history of killing and maiming. Who is unpredictable? Who in one split second can destroy the life of a child. For me that is not a risk we should take.

Orion's-Belt said "On CTV news this morning they said they have an email from the dog owner so. It says they are covering any vet bills and trying to help any other way he can also stayed at scene until lady was gone. Accidents do happen. It’s not like this person is hiding there dogs and running from the problem. It’s a sad story on all sides. "

Two dogs running lose, should never happen.  
 
The owner should have full care for his/her animals - bigger fence, no holes, on a leash.  
 
This was one "accident" there was no need for.

So sad that you had to die through no fault of your own. I hope your human parent has lots of wonderful memories of you. You will be missed, I am sure.

Spades!! said "The source I cited is from a Veterinarian who is a well known Canine Behaviouralist. He has worked with Dogs for 45 plus years. He started the whole puppy class culture. He works with Dogs who have aggression issues. He offers Dogs every chance to be retrained to live a happy life. Even he says that a dog without bite inhibition and who have a history of serious bites that cause injury and death as an adult dog poses a serious risk. You will spend years retraining the aggression issues resulting in a quieter dog but that dog will be unpredictable in its bite reaction.   While I agree with you every dog has the right to a happy life but at what cost? At what risk are we willing to subject our kids to a dog with a history of killing and maiming. Who is unpredictable? Who in one split second can destroy the life of a child. For me that is not a risk we should take. "

But did you look at mine. 1 out of 49 dogs had to be put down from the fighting ring. I am aloud to disagree with you. no one person has the answer to whether these dogs can be saved or not. I just hope they can. Because nobody should be hoping a life is destroyed because a person failed with them. for every article you can cite I can cite one saying the opposite.

Orion's-Belt said "On CTV news this morning they said they have an email from the dog owner so. It says they are covering any vet bills and trying to help any other way he can also stayed at scene until lady was gone. Accidents do happen. It’s not like this person is hiding there dogs and running from the problem. It’s a sad story on all sides. "

Maybe sad on all sides, but this should have never have occurred. I’ve seen many dog owners with dogs off leash because they totally trust their dogs. I’ve seen posters at Brandon hills about missing dogs. Why are they missing? Well owners likely had them off leash. I’ve experienced in the hills, after “unleashed” dog attacked our small dog owners say, “our dog has never done that before”. See it all the time in the hills and Sprucewood where owners love to see their dogs free and enjoying nature when small dog owners are scared of going to same nature areas with their dogs as they feel for the safety of their pets. Every dog owner claims to be a good, responsible owner which is certainly not the case and the owner of these two dogs showed extreme irresponsibility and now must face the consequences of their bad decision makings, irrespective of them paying vet bills. The law should make an example of them and come down hard in order to make other dog owners with the same mentality think twice before having their dogs off leash in public areas. In addition, I hope the elderly lady sues the pants off of the owners as their decision that day to have their dogs “off leash” led to tragic events that has changed this woman’s life.They need to pay and pay dearly. Vet costs are merely a pittance in this very tragic event. I feel just a “little bit sorry” for the dog owners, but they must own this tragedy and face the law and lawsuits that follow.

Actually yes I did read yours attachment. Funny I thought you would say that.  
 
What I’d like to add is from your article this gentleman who is rehabbing these dogs is looking for some specific attributes to determine if the dog is able to be retrained. He probably first gets the steroids out of their system then sees if they are truly aggressive versus fear based. He is also likely looking at their bite inhibition. I’m assuming!!! Bottom line is he is obviously a very skilled dog person who has experience in determining how safe the dog is to retrain and rehome. I question whether or not we have a person with such skill and who has the time to put into retraining such a dog here in Brandon. We definitely have people who are passionate in helping to save Dogs no question there.  
 
In the end I think for a small city/community such as Brandon these dogs have caused a great deal of pain and suffering. Will be interesting to see what the end result will be.

I certainly would not be willing to risk my child or someone else’s dog just in an effort to possibly rehabilitate these 2 dogs.  
 
In the situation where my family member (child) was bitten unprovoked while on a leash with his owner. The dog was quarantined but then returned to the owner. So next time it’s a child’s face the dog bites?! Same with these 2 dogs. The owner will keep them cooped up in their house? They are large and will need to be walked, they are powerful so there is no way the owner would be able to restrain them.  
 
The owner of these dogs should be doing the right thing and putting these animals down.

RC123 said "I certainly would not be willing to risk my child or someone else’s dog just in an effort to possibly rehabilitate these 2 dogs.     In the situation where my family member (child) was bitten unprovoked while on a leash with his owner. The dog was quarantined but then returned to the owner. So next time it’s a child’s face the dog bites?! Same with these 2 dogs. The owner will keep them cooped up in their house? They are large and will need to be walked, they are powerful so there is no way the owner would be able to restrain them.     The owner of these dogs should be doing the right thing and putting these animals down. "

why did the animals run away? Not enough exercise? There has to be some reason. And… if that pitbull was in on the attack it needs to be euthanized too. By the sound of it the pitbull did attack the little dog, as reported in the Brandon Sun today

I am very close friends with the owner of the dog that attacked the smaller dog. First off I just want to point out that The Brandon Sun and CTV published false information about the incident. The Pitbull did not attack the small dog, it was only the Pyrenees. They somehow had both escaped. My friend had also stayed on scene the entire time with the elderly lady, consoling her until by-law and police came to the scene. Everything about the incident was handled accordingly. She is also paying for any medical and vet costs. If you’ve ever met these dogs, you’d know they are the sweetest and most kind dogs. I’ve spent time with them and never had any issues. The Pyrenees does get aggressive sometimes around other female dogs, but my friend was trying to correct that and was working on it with her. It was a complete accident, and to point fingers and start the blame game without actual facts and just assumptions isn’t right. My friend is torn apart about this situation, and everything on the police/by-law side has been handled. They are now figuring out what exactly to do about the dog. Please refrain from negative comments. It was a freak accident and everything has been taken care of. Thanks

I used to own multiple Pyrenees dogs as well as breed them. These dogs are not city dogs. They can kill a coyote, I personally have watched ours take down a full sized deer because he happened to come to close to the livestock. They are kind and sweet and were great around the kids but extremely territorial. This dog needs to put down. A responsible pet owner WILL do the right thing here and keep this from happening again.

Jessp said "I am very close friends with the owner of the dog that attacked the smaller dog. First off I just want to point out that The Brandon Sun and CTV published false information about the incident. The Pitbull did not attack the small dog, it was only the Pyrenees. They somehow had both escaped. My friend had also stayed on scene the entire time with the elderly lady, consoling her until by-law and police came to the scene. Everything about the incident was handled accordingly. She is also paying for any medical and vet costs. If you’ve ever met these dogs, you’d know they are the sweetest and most kind dogs. I’ve spent time with them and never had any issues. The Pyrenees does get aggressive sometimes around other female dogs, but my friend was trying to correct that and was working on it with her. It was a complete accident, and to point fingers and start the blame game without actual facts and just assumptions isn’t right. My friend is torn apart about this situation, and everything on the police/by-law side has been handled. They are now figuring out what exactly to do about the dog. Please refrain from negative comments. It was a freak accident and everything has been taken care of. Thanks "

that is was the Pyrenees that did attack on CTV - so not sure that information is wrong, according to you,  
 
I also read a comment on facbook, from someone else that also knows these people and their dogs and visit.  
 
The comment said this dog gets quite "excitable". Excitable and dog unleashed should never happen. Excitable - we can figure out what excitable dogs do.  
 
Somehow, they both escaped, as you say. Apparently they have escaped before. Would the owners not fix whatever was "open" that they would escape from? If not why not?  
 
I am sure they are torn apart, but if they had been responsible with their animals, they would not need to be.  
 
Tragic - a poor woman has probably just lost her only companion (which are just like family)due to negligent owners of animals. Negligent - they have been seen many times on the loose.  
 
How is this woman doing? Have we heard? Heartbroken? What about physically - how badly injured?  
 
The "incident" should never have happened period. You spend time with them - 24 hours a day? When they get lose? No one knows how fast any animal can turn - nice or not.  
 
There really is no pointing fingers. Your friends dogs attacked another dog and knocked a lady down. Which, as said, they have been seen roaming before.....so who is pointing fingers?  
 
Of course there is blame and there should be. Responsibility, blame, control of your animals. If I accidentally ran a stop light and hurt someone, I would be blamed, responsible and fingers would be pointed.  
 
These dogs are not controlled and should not be living the "city life". I do hope they are put down and I am an animal lover, if it were mine, it would be. I could not live with myself knowing a dog turned instantly. It could happen again at any time, to even the owners.  
 
Edited by CDD, 2018-07-17 10:41:54

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/greatpyrenees.html  
 
If you even do a quick google search on the temperament of Pyrenees dogs then you should know that these are not city dogs. They are prone to escaping/wandering, being destructive without enough stimulation (or a job to do), and prone to aggression towards other dogs. I don't know if this was a rescue or what but this is why people should always do their research before purchasing a pet. This doesn't sound like a freak accident, the breed is literally known to behave the way it did. They are excellent dogs but they don't do well in the city. Not fair to the dogs.

Said she was a friend of the owners. Said they’re great dogs, would never hurt a fly.  
 
Meanwhile there were multiple accounts of these two dogs getting loose and terrorizing children and dogs in the neighbourhood. A Great Pyrenees and a pitbull mix, with the GP being the instigator.

“Pit Bull  
Posted by myhandleistrain, 7/16/2018 12:21:41 PM  
Should pit bulls be banned? No such thing as a bad dog, only bad owners? I don't have a dog, but I like to use this analogy. The government wants to ban most semi automatic rifles? Why? A single shot rifle will make someone just as dead as a semi. It's because of the potential for more damage and Carnage with a semi rifle. Same as a pit bull, in my humble opinion. Let's face it. They were bred for only one reason. I'm sure there are some very cuddly pitbulls owned by very responsible owners. But we also know the other side of that coin.”  
 
Pit bulls were actually bred to be nanny dogs and take care of small children.

Also as a previous owner of Pyrenees dogs they can easily jump a fence while standing right beside it. They are not city dogs! People need to research the breed before they get one.

My daughter watched the attack and has been traumatized and crying off and on for the last 2 days. She has read this discussion string over and over. She has read what is in the news media. She has repeated to me over and over that both dogs attacked. She cannot get the cries of that dog out of her head. Both animals were aggressors. You can paint things with a lily white brush but both these animals need to be put down so it does not happen again.  
 
Edited by Tiger Barb, 2018-07-17 12:10:53

These are big, working type dogs. Our GP used to walk 20 Miles in a day, every day, checking cows. This breed is meant to roam. $50 says these dogs were hardly ever walked, or played with, or taken care of. As well, multiple reports of these dogs getting away from their owners have come through, with one story I read saying they knocked down the grown man that was walking them in an attempt to attack a puppy. I wouldn’t doubt they’re “too hard to walk” or “don’t like walks so we don’t go on them”  
 
Lazy owners. “My dog doesn’t walk well on a leash so we just don’t walk on a leash he’s fine”  
 
No your dog is bad and you should feel bad for not training him better. Fools.

Inspite of all my comments on this thread regarding the need for more education about Dogs and dog ownership what is done cannot be undone. It is a very sad day and my condolences go out to the owner of the little dog and all those who witnessed it.

Tiger Barb said "My daughter watched the attack and has been traumatized and crying off and on for the last 2 days. She has read this discussion string over and over. She has read what is in the news media. She has repeated to me over and over that both dogs attacked. She cannot get the cries of that dog out of her head. Both animals were aggressors. You can paint things with a lily white brush but both these animals need to be put down so it does not happen again.     Edited by Tiger Barb, 2018-07-17 12:10:53"

hugs to your daughter!

Sadly many incidents like this happen with negligent owners who claim to be dog lovers and treat their dogs like babies. We all love our dogs, yet some people who own big dogs like these ignore their working instincts, coop them up in a neighbourhood yard, and as a result things like this happen. They are not babies, they are dogs, and should be treated and respected as such. As unfortunate as the situation is, I hope it serves as a lesson for the owner on what she can and can not handle. Unfortunately the dogs and the old woman are paying the price for her negligence.

Prizzy said "So sad that you had to die through no fault of your own. I hope your human parent has lots of wonderful memories of you. You will be missed, I am sure. "

I feel the same way

Tiger Barb said "My daughter watched the attack and has been traumatized and crying off and on for the last 2 days. She has read this discussion string over and over. She has read what is in the news media. She has repeated to me over and over that both dogs attacked. She cannot get the cries of that dog out of her head. Both animals were aggressors. You can paint things with a lily white brush but both these animals need to be put down so it does not happen again.     Edited by Tiger Barb, 2018-07-17 12:10:53"

I hope that you take your daughter down to the police station so she can give her first hand account witnessing that indeed both dogs did attack to kill that little pooch. This is important because after one killing the dog wants more.

We are animal lovers and it broke our hearts when we heard this story. I know my family would be absolutely traumatized if we had to experience the attack happen.  
 
I only know what I have read regarding the attack and have no first hand knowledge so can only base my opinion on that.  
 
I believe the owner of these two larger dogs should be charge and prohibited from ever owning another dog.  
 
I actually feel a bit bad for these two dogs that attacked too .it's not really their fault. Pets and their behaviour are a product of their up bringing. Some dogs do have an overprotective predisposition however with proper handling and training they can be brought up to be very obedient, well behaved dogs however.  
I hate the thought of an animal having to be put down but in this situation I can't see any other option for these dogs .  
 
It's a very sad situation all around .The only people I don't feel bad for (based on what I've read) are the owners of the larger dogs that attacked the lady and her small dog.  
 
I feel for everyone that had to witness this attack.

All dog have their working past, do you know what most little dogs were used for? pest control they would kill rats etc and are actually very high strung dogs with vicious bites as well I've seen the damage they can cause. What people are seeming to forget here is all dogs have to be treated with respect of the damage they can do. As the owners of any dog you have to be aware of where your dog is just like you have to be aware of where your child is. Too many times I see dog owners just ignoring what there dog is doing. I'm sorry but the blame here is on the owners. I have no doubt that these pups are very friendly almost all the time and some do say and believe that they wouldn't hurt a fly. But something set those pups off that day and we most likely will never know what, and it may never happen again. i firmly believe that you don't have to put a dog down after an incident like this if the dog is not showing any further aggression. But you do have to maybe change it's environment. The great Pyrenees pup should maybe be re-homed to a farm where it can do what it needs to do, protect a herd. The pit cross you may be surprised may not have to go anywhere, just separating the two may be enough to curb his behavior. Dogs will follow the lead of another dog. The owners have probably learned more than we could even know. they from all accounts are handling this the right way as will the authority's I'm sure. Before you start criticizing my comments I have over thirty years having all types of large dogs from German Shepherds to akbash/maremma's golden retrievers to husky/Samoyed's all of which need different training and care and all have different characteristics

There is victim services through BPS.  
 
Perhaps your daughter would get help talking through it with someone else.  
 
It is not only tough on her, but I am sure the whole family, in which they will help.  
 
Good Luck!

I disagree. A dog involved in a vicious attack should be put down. End of story. Rehiring it to the country is not a good idea. So that Pyrenees gets its herd to guard. And when he is guarding and the neighbors dog comes for a visit? Or what about the people who take their dogs for a run down country roads that could potentially be met by this dog in the future? Would you 100% guarantee this dog will not attack again? So when this happens again then what? Why chance it. Would you live next door to these dogs knowing what they have done?

veloster said "All dog have their working past, do you know what most little dogs were used for? pest control they would kill rats etc and are actually very high strung dogs with vicious bites as well I've seen the damage they can cause. What people are seeming to forget here is all dogs have to be treated with respect of the damage they can do. As the owners of any dog you have to be aware of where your dog is just like you have to be aware of where your child is. Too many times I see dog owners just ignoring what there dog is doing. I'm sorry but the blame here is on the owners. I have no doubt that these pups are very friendly almost all the time and some do say and believe that they wouldn't hurt a fly. But something set those pups off that day and we most likely will never know what, and it may never happen again. i firmly believe that you don't have to put a dog down after an incident like this if the dog is not showing any further aggression. But you do have to maybe change it's environment. The great Pyrenees pup should maybe be re-homed to a farm where it can do what it needs to do, protect a herd. The pit cross you may be surprised may not have to go anywhere, just separating the two may be enough to curb his behavior. Dogs will follow the lead of another dog. The owners have probably learned more than we could even know. they from all accounts are handling this the right way as will the authority's I'm sure. Before you start criticizing my comments I have over thirty years having all types of large dogs from German Shepherds to akbash/maremma's golden retrievers to husky/Samoyed's all of which need different training and care and all have different characteristics "

Good points and re-homing idea would be better than euthanasia imo.  
 
To put down animals because humans have failed them seems logical. (sarcasm). We don''t even put down humans who kill humans on purpose and we supposedly have brains and are the intelligent species.  
 
Animals are unpredictable. I think it''s irresponsible to trust any pet 100%, regardless of training or breed. I think it''s unrealistic for the majority of pet owners to believe they can anticipate what their pet will do in any & every circumstance. Animals are unpredictable and can be dangerous. Do we put down all animals because they have the potential to be dangerous or just the ones that humans have failed?  
 
Edited by Hackeda, 2018-07-17 16:39:32

RC123 said "I disagree. A dog involved in a vicious attack should be put down. End of story. Rehiring it to the country is not a good idea. So that Pyrenees gets its herd to guard. And when he is guarding and the neighbors dog comes for a visit? Or what about the people who take their dogs for a run down country roads that could potentially be met by this dog in the future? Would you 100% guarantee this dog will not attack again? So when this happens again then what? Why chance it. Would you live next door to these dogs knowing what they have done? "

next to these two dogs because I have an understanding on dog behavior and I respect what the dogs can do and I also know how to handle dogs. I have many times been in front of a dog poised in an aggressive manner and know what to do in those situations. Can you guarantee any dog will never bite you. No you can't but you can't live your life afraid about what could happen. I question why it's death for these dog or nothing with you. I think you need some retrospection for you.