Discussions

When we talk about affordable housing I think our definitions differ from person to person. When we have new housing in Brandon, the infill home debate always points to the term affordable housing vs low income housing.  
 
CMHC defines affordable housing as housing costing less than 30% of your pre-tax income.  
 
Some Affordable Housing Numbers:  
Down payment: $10,000  
Household income:  
$40,000=$0-$113,000 mortgage @ $700/month =10 listings  
$50,000=$0-$153,000 mortgage @ $971/month =53 listings  
$60,000=$0-$194,000 mortgage @ $1250/month =75 listings  
$70,000=$0-$200,000 mortgage @ $1288/month =124 listings  
Down payment: $15,000  
$80,000=$0-$280,000 mortgage @ $1800/month =288 listings  
$90,000=$0-$300,000 mortgage @ $1932/month = 325 listings  
Down payment: $20,000  
$100,000=$367,000 mortgage @ $2357/month =364 listings  
 
I think society is expecting new house pricing for old house prices. The reality is building materials are rising at an all-time high. Lumber is climbing huge. Land pricing has risen tons over the past few years. Lots that used to sell for the 20/30/40 thousand mark are almost 100 grand now. That adds a lot to housing prices. What worries me is that those that want to have a few kids single income wanting to own a brand new house for next to nothing. When the house starts to need repairs and updates are lower income families able to afford the random hot water tank cutting out. The standards for low income housing needs to be lowered a lot to rental units or older homes in trailer parks. Affordable housing would be your older homes with lots or small infill housing and condos.  
 
What are your expectations when hearing terms of Low income housing and affordable housing?

Fishin Guy said "When we talk about affordable housing I think our definitions differ from person to person. When we have new housing in Brandon, the infill home debate always points to the term affordable housing vs low income housing.     CMHC defines affordable housing as housing costing less than 30% of your pre-tax income.     Some Affordable Housing Numbers:   Down payment: $10,000   Household income:   $40,000=$0-$113,000 mortgage @ $700/month =10 listings   $50,000=$0-$153,000 mortgage @ $971/month =53 listings   $60,000=$0-$194,000 mortgage @ $1250/month =75 listings   $70,000=$0-$200,000 mortgage @ $1288/month =124 listings   Down payment: $15,000   $80,000=$0-$280,000 mortgage @ $1800/month =288 listings   $90,000=$0-$300,000 mortgage @ $1932/month = 325 listings   Down payment: $20,000   $100,000=$367,000 mortgage @ $2357/month =364 listings     I think society is expecting new house pricing for old house prices. The reality is building materials are rising at an all-time high. Lumber is climbing huge. Land pricing has risen tons over the past few years. Lots that used to sell for the 20/30/40 thousand mark are almost 100 grand now. That adds a lot to housing prices. What worries me is that those that want to have a few kids single income wanting to own a brand new house for next to nothing. When the house starts to need repairs and updates are lower income families able to afford the random hot water tank cutting out. The standards for low income housing needs to be lowered a lot to rental units or older homes in trailer parks. Affordable housing would be your older homes with lots or small infill housing and condos.     What are your expectations when hearing terms of Low income housing and affordable housing? "

What amortization did you use for your mortgage examples above? The monthly mortgage payments are off by quite a bit if you intended to use the standard 25 years.  
 
Agree that its expensive to build a new. And peoples expectations are unrealistic.

I'm in the market to purchase a house. Being a parent and having only one income makes it difficult. I can afford much over 150,000. Anything in that price range is either a apartment condo, mobile home or house that I can't afford to repair everything or in a bad area.  
 
I'd never expect a brand new place in my price range no matter how small it is. But the pricing on some of these old homes in Brandon that haven't been updated are awful. But I'll keep saving up each month and hoping something decent pops up eventually.

in this market have deemed affordable housing to be condominium strata, 4plexes or multi-family apartments. There is very little in terms of single family housing for parents to raise a family and have children play in the yard. I do not have a problem with multi-family building but I think our politicians locally should be doing something to spur urban renewal more than allowing rezoning to multi-family and knocking down every derelict corner home and placing a 4plex on the corner. I like the fact that some lots are being divided to create shotgun style homes but I still think that there needs to be some assistance to the builder to bring the price of these modest homes in line. That also means that the realtors selling these homes need to be realistic also and overpricing in the market will just lead to inflationary pricing.  
 
Edited by Tiger Barb, 2018-06-18 18:35:18

https://www.cibc.com/ca/mortgages/calculator/mortgage-affordability.html  
 
I kept it at a 7 year fixed giving a higher interest rate over 25 years. I like to have a little movement in rates cause someone has to realize that you may not have a 2 or 3 percent rate for the whole 25 year term. I had a higher rate to start and kept getting less and less causing my payments to drop. Kept the payments the same and increased them slightly making my mortgage paid off 8 years sooner.

If I were single, I would go for a condo.  
 
No upkeep, no grass to cut, snow to shovel, all extra things you have to buy.  
 
A house is nice, but there is always something to do. There are some very nice condo's with a yard - but I know, I have looked and they are all fairly new and pricey.

Yes the land and building materials generally go up in price, just like everything else. From a contractor’s view, I would say that the thing that has forced new housing prices to rise faster than a person’s income is red tape... including permits, inspections, Builder’s Risk insurance and all the safety regulations that are mandatory now. This adds huge price increases as well as eats up a lot of “administrative” time and that is obviously a cost to contractors that gets passed on to the consumer.

Fishin Guy said "When we talk about affordable housing I think our definitions differ from person to person. When we have new housing in Brandon, the infill home debate always points to the term affordable housing vs low income housing.     CMHC defines affordable housing as housing costing less than 30% of your pre-tax income.     Some Affordable Housing Numbers:   Down payment: $10,000   Household income:   $40,000=$0-$113,000 mortgage @ $700/month =10 listings   $50,000=$0-$153,000 mortgage @ $971/month =53 listings   $60,000=$0-$194,000 mortgage @ $1250/month =75 listings   $70,000=$0-$200,000 mortgage @ $1288/month =124 listings   Down payment: $15,000   $80,000=$0-$280,000 mortgage @ $1800/month =288 listings   $90,000=$0-$300,000 mortgage @ $1932/month = 325 listings   Down payment: $20,000   $100,000=$367,000 mortgage @ $2357/month =364 listings     I think society is expecting new house pricing for old house prices. The reality is building materials are rising at an all-time high. Lumber is climbing huge. Land pricing has risen tons over the past few years. Lots that used to sell for the 20/30/40 thousand mark are almost 100 grand now. That adds a lot to housing prices. What worries me is that those that want to have a few kids single income wanting to own a brand new house for next to nothing. When the house starts to need repairs and updates are lower income families able to afford the random hot water tank cutting out. The standards for low income housing needs to be lowered a lot to rental units or older homes in trailer parks. Affordable housing would be your older homes with lots or small infill housing and condos.     What are your expectations when hearing terms of Low income housing and affordable housing? "

I had a $450,000 house with a 5% down payment and my mortgage was $2035/month...not sure how your $367,000 house is $2400/month

Current rates you can get at around the 3% mark. I know my mortgage started in the 5%. People remember when it skyrocketed back in the 80's I believe. Now I just used an online calculator that had the rate around the 6%. This gives a little cushion of room for rates to go up yet not make someone homeless. When banks pre-approve you they account for rate flexibility, not just the lowest rate.  
 
Condos having family that worked in real estate won't even touch a condo. Biggest money waster I have been told. I have priced out lawn and snow clearing and I could be saving money. I have yet to hear of a condo association not needing a larger sum of money latter down the line for things such as new shingles, etc.

Mine was 470 with 100k down so 370 mortgage and it’s 1,600/month

I owned an 1910 vintage house near 13th and Vic. I would have been lucky at anytime in the past decade to get $240,000 for it and more likely something closer to $200,000. I don't recall the tax assessment ever topping $180,000. However the replacement cost for insurance was around $400,000 because of all the hardwood floors and door frames etc. Sometimes it's the quality of the building, the location and other factors that determine price. Take a look at a program like STEPP  
http://bnrc.ca/images/housing/stepp/stepp-brochure.pdf  
 
Also housing choices can determine other expenses: buying an inexpensive house 50km from Brandon isn't 'affordable' if you can't keep a car on the road to get to work or if there's no daycare available.

Anyone given thought to moving outside of Brandon to a smaller community not far from Brandon? You can get just as nice if not nicer homes, bigger yards, lower taxes, escape the rat race that Brandon is becoming and pay a lot less to live. Communities like wawanesa, Carberry, rivers, etc. are all not that far from Brandon and offer good community living.

pilot said "Anyone given thought to moving outside of Brandon to a smaller community not far from Brandon? You can get just as nice if not nicer homes, bigger yards, lower taxes, escape the rat race that Brandon is becoming and pay a lot less to live. Communities like wawanesa, Carberry, rivers, etc. are all not that far from Brandon and offer good community living. "

That is alright to live outside the city, but if you job is in Brandon it makes it tougher to save money. Back when fuel was around the 80 cent mark we drove from Minnedosa and our fuel bill was $500 a month. Moved to Brandon and it dropped about $300. Hwy 10 north or south can be brutal at times in the winter.

I don’t know why they base it off income you don’t have. If you want to help low income households that pay a percentage of thier income, especially if is old crappy Manitoba Housing Units, base it off of take home income. Income that they actually have in their pockets

I agree that affordable doesn’t mean low-income.  
 
There are several million dollar (or close) houses currently for sale in Brandon. To some that is affordable.  
 
Is low-income housing not subsidized? Therefore it is cheaper for people because your & my tax money goes to help pay for it. (I may be wrong)  
 
If the people who say we need more low-income housing want more then volunteer to pay more taxes. Let’s see how many people jump at that. I bet none.  
 
I, for one, don’t think everything needs to be affordable to everyone.  
Low income families can be very hard working, but they also need to be responsible for their decisions.  
 
I have worked very hard for what I have. I have never been given anything by anyone.  
I have made life choices that have allowed me to retire here in Brandon at 44 years old.  
(If anyone says I am “lucky” just needs to hear my story to realize I have never been lucky in my life)  
I have worked horrid dead end jobs. My first job when I was 8 years old.  
I have been so broke I often paid rent over food & frequently went to bed hungry.  
I have nearly lost my residence on 2 occasions, saved only by my own sheer will.  
I cannot afford children... so I did not have any.  
I don’t need a car so I have had the same one for 20 years.  
I save everywhere I can and now can reap the rewards.  
 
Why should I now pay more taxes to have everything low cost for everyone?  
 
Stop whining. If you can’t afford to live here... live somewhere else.

...is a basic requirement and a right, not sure when it suddenly became a privilege.  
 
There will always be working masses (low income families)...always....not everyone is capable of being doctors, lawyers, etc...and imagine a world where we are, lol. It's the inflation of the cost of living, red tape for building homes, laws, poor government policies, etc., that makes affording a home increasingly out of reach. Even rent is getting rediculous in most cases. The individual flipping your burger for minimum wage cannot be blamed for "poor life choices." There are just as many (and most likely more) industrious people out there trapped in the low income jobs through no fault of their own as there are lazy useless twats keeping themselves there.  
 
In this particular case, it's no one's fault, and equally everyone's fault. And nothing will ever be done about it, not even the day when a loaf of bread costs $100 at the till due to inflation...the economy and society has to collapse and rise in cycles...our artificially created one has to burst at some point.......

With OutinBrandon. Maybe people need to better learn how to budget. Live in a tiny crappy apartment with roommates, work numerous jobs, create a side hustle for more income, use coupons, cook at home instead of eating out. There are so many ways to make additional money and save more money. Not everybody deserves a single detached home with a backyard, this is why there are green spaces/parks around the city - and they are free!  
Start on the bottom and work to the top, create a budget - a realistic budget. People don’t owe you anything in life, certainly not other tax payers who have had to do exactly what you need to do now in order to live where you want to.  
I have a huge problem with low income housing personally. The waiting list is ridiculously long, people are there for years and years - I think there should be a cap on how long the govt can subsidize you. People should use it as a temporary situation to get back on their feet and most don’t. Grow up and get to work! Better your situation! (Now here come the folks on disability to blast me and say they can’t work... lol).

Does any one know what the average cost per sq ft would be for a new build and does it matter the size. Meaning is it cheaper per sq ft if you build bigger than smaller?

Residentof7thst. said "Does any one know what the average cost per sq ft would be for a new build and does it matter the size. Meaning is it cheaper per sq ft if you build bigger than smaller? "

Developer was quoted as saying the following in the Sun on the general topic of development cost relative to square footage:  
 
"all the mechanical and electrical and everything you put into a house, that cost is always going to be there....So just because you make the house smaller doesn’t mean that the cost goes down by the same percentage as the square feet."  
 
What are your thoughts on the question posed by the OP?  
 
"What are your expectations when hearing terms of Low income housing and affordable housing?"  
 
Edited by Adam, 2018-06-20 14:07:28

My thoughts are most would think smaller means cheaper but this does not seem the case. From what I can tell it my be cheaper or at least you may get more value for your dollar if you build bigger. Am I right thinking this way? Also has anyone built a new home in brandon lately using materials sourced from brandon and about how much did it cost per sq ft?

You phrased things better than I did in my earlier post.  
You do have to start at the bottom & work your way up. I alluded to budgeting but didn’t come across well.  
 
I also said “responsible for their decisions “ which does NOT mean, nor did I say, “poor life choices”.  
It means, if you are scraping by don’t get a new flatscreen tv, computer, gaming system, or other thing you want just because you “want it”.  
If you have to live pay cheque to pay cheque don’t get a new vehicle, snowmobile, or exotic vacation.  
If you can’t afford to feed, house, or clothe yourself then don’t have a kid...two...or three.  
Why should you get cheaper housing because you chose to have a child you cannot afford? Why can’t I get cheaper housing because I chose NOT to have a child I cannot afford?  
 
If I was a developer I would build what makes ME or my company the most money. I assume they have the same wants & desires as everyone. They have mouths to feed, rents & mortgages to pay, bills, taxes, et cetera, just like everyone else. It is not up to developers to save those less fortunate. That is not their job. It is not up to tax payer to carry others either.  
 
Rightly put “better your situation”. Don’t rely on or expect others to take care of you.  
 
And for god sake stop bitching about it! I would be thrilled if I was ever given anything and I would be appalled if I assumed I was owed it.

with Viv. Too many people nowadays want everything but don't want to work for it. Or constantly getting help from parents. No need to start at the top with jobs, new SUV, new house. Work for it an!!d you will get there