Discussions

Your property is just that: Property.  
 
A human life is not comparable to property.

THEY have a CHOICE to enter your residence and steal from you or not

Tater said "Your property is just that: Property.     A human life is not comparable to property. "

What about the time it takes to acquire said property, does that factor into the equation at all as time is finite and you can't reimburse for it ?

There is no reason a person should be on our property, especially at night.  
 
I fully support the stand your ground law and the use of deadly force to protect yourself and your property. I would only have an issue with these if there was a chance I'd be slaughtered doing illegal activities.  
 
I wasn't always in favour of these but when you call the cops and are told you're on your own and you call 911 and you get voicemail or busy signal, you are a sitting duck and criminals work fast.  
 
I'd rather be a dead fighter than a helpless victim.  
 
Times are changing and things are not improving for good people who live within the law.  
 
I'm not sure what happened with C-71. Anyone fill me in?

zero_one said "There are a lot of thefts in the rural area that I live. And a home invasion is my top fear, living where I do. A matter of when, not if. The police take hours if not days to respond and even then there is little they can do about it. So yes, I will defend my home. My property outside is one thing, but you step into my home...… you may have a problem. "

Unless you have lived on an acerage you really can't comprehend that you are on your own to deal with the escalating situation happening at the moment and recognize that a firearm could be involved.

zero_one said "There are a lot of thefts in the rural area that I live. And a home invasion is my top fear, living where I do. A matter of when, not if. The police take hours if not days to respond and even then there is little they can do about it. So yes, I will defend my home. My property outside is one thing, but you step into my home...… you may have a problem. "

"The police take hours if not days to respond..."  
 
That's obviously not always the case. Look at what happened in Onanole. They caught the guys mid-crime, and got shot at as a result.  
 
But rural theft is not a new problem. My grandparent's farm, which they sold back in 1997, it was an annual thing in the winter when they were away. For goodness sakes, they even stole fixtures that were attached, large appliances, even dishes. They were cleaned right out three years in a row. It broke their hearts. They ended up selling because of it.

Uh, yes it has at times taken the police days to respond in the area that we live. It may not happen all the time. I also know that the detachment that is the closest to us, has a huge area to cover. An area that in all probability they don't have enough members to cover.

myhandleistrain said "Yes. Property can be replaced. How about if you are in fear for your, or your families life during a home invasion? If the home Invaders have a weapon, be it a knife or firearm? "

in danger of losing your life then yes! Defend yourself any means possible.

In this shooting at onanole ???  
The sad truth is the guy that had his guns stolen will be the one that they will make an example of . The male offenders likly will be out in short order after some kind of rehab. In canada it is the GUNS that are bad not the idiot that pulls the trigger . I hope the officer is able to recover !

Abbysmum said "    zero_one said "There are a lot of thefts in the rural area that I live. And a home invasion is my top fear, living where I do. A matter of when, not if. The police take hours if not days to respond and even then there is little they can do about it. So yes, I will defend my home. My property outside is one thing, but you step into my home...… you may have a problem. " "The police take hours if not days to respond..."     That's obviously not always the case. Look at what happened in Onanole. They caught the guys mid-crime, and got shot at as a result.     But rural theft is not a new problem. My grandparent's farm, which they sold back in 1997, it was an annual thing in the winter when they were away. For goodness sakes, they even stole fixtures that were attached, large appliances, even dishes. They were cleaned right out three years in a row. It broke their hearts. They ended up selling because of it. "

Onanole while rural is not really the rural I was thinking. Is there not a bar and gas station there? Pretty common area for Police to be near.  
 
Rural theft to the scale that is now is new. New as organized. New as in weopons are being carried in. Myself I think the trend really kicked kicked in when kids put the booze down and started hard street drugs. Meth just being the latest. Drugs and the need to get them through any means knows no skin colour.

Adam said " I can completely understand this is a delicate topic for so many, but a reminder that this forum takes seriously its responsibility to be within bounds as far as existing law goes. When this topic comes up there are always some that want to encourage an approach that might not be consistent with current laws... perhaps meant to be taken at face value, perhaps said with the hope it might act as some kind of deterrent. But posts on this forum cannot be used to encourage breaking of current laws. By the OP’s post my understanding is they are more looking to explore whether current laws need to be reconsidered, an important distinction. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. Too add, this story by Global seems to explore some aspects of what this thread is getting into:  https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/4051618/what-rights-do-you-have-to-defend-your-property-in-canada/amp/ "

For anyone who has been in a crisis situation, you'll know that adrenalin kicks in and for some of us, look out.  
 
This article is worrisome because in a moment of fear, what is "reasonable use of force" for one person may not be the same level as the next person. I know for me now that I will fight to the death - mine or theirs.  
 
I think it's ridiculous that the person shooting a shotgun OVER the heads of people stealing from his pond spent time in jail. Trespassing is a crime. Our judicial system and the people running it are screwed up.  
 
IMO, our laws need to be updated sooner rather than later giving homeowners/individuals the right to use whatever force necessary to protect them and theirs. In this day and age, I think it's safe to assume that someone on my property at night is not there to serenade me and is likely carrying weapons and B&E tools.  
 
For those living in rurals areas, take care of yourselves. Scary times call for protection measures that might not be considered necessary by some judge all comfy in a government office twirling in a robe.  
 
Reality dictates my behaviour.

myhandleistrain said "I was hoping to get some opinions on if readers thought our current laws support a home owner in defending themselves or not. My own feeling is they arent strong enough or clear cut as to what a normal citizen is entitled to do by law, if they find themselves in these very scary and increasing situations. I do see a trend where the courts are taking a very strong stance on rural crime, especially when the perpetrators are armed. All laws can be changed, but until they are through the proper process, we must abide by them. "

Why has home owners, rural or in the city, be scared?  
 
A human life needs to be protected, but for some belongings is all they have and have spent hard earned money on those belongings.  
 
Guns do not kill people, it is the people that kill people.

stand your ground if they are threatened. A rural property. Nobody around. Trespassers. We have already seen this play out elsewhere. Unfortunately our judicial system provides more rights to the criminal than the person protecting themselves. Their family or their property. Unless policing is immediate then their needs to be a clear cut set of statutes on lawful protection rights.

Property is not worth a life, I wonder how many thieves have taken the lives of people who owned property, there are lots of armed robberies, there are lots of violent home invasions, people don''t even have to resist, and at times they are killed or beat senseless.  
 
I guess if you''ve been lucky enough to have had enough money to get the things in life that you have without sacrifice, then maybe property is not that important, most of are not that lucky. At times parents make financial sacrifices to pay their children to do chores, the purpose of this is to teach them that to get something in life you have to put in some effort. Lessons in life start at an early age, and if a child works, and sacrifices to buy something they want, then someone comes along and steals it, there has been a sacrifice by the parents as well as the child, and we are supposed to accept the idea that it''s ok, and we should stand down.  
I guess standing down would be alright if the laws of the land took into the work and sacrifice that most people put out to get things. This might be putting a stretch on things, but many of those who write the laws haven''t made the sacrifice that most people have.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2018-08-31 19:09:06

myhandleistrain said "Yes. Property can be replaced. How about if you are in fear for your, or your families life during a home invasion? If the home Invaders have a weapon, be it a knife or firearm? "

think the laws should be changed, I hope it never happens but if you come thru my front door uninvited with intent to harm my family there will be some resistance I hope I have the chance to explain to 12 people and not be carried by 6.

Our laws already allow you to kill someone, if you can convince a jury that you acted because you feared for your life. There is one big caveat with that though, your actions need to be reasonable! So if you shoot someone over property chances are it won’t meet the requirements for self defense.

Is you’re all talking about “if happens” as if it “did happen”. As is the problem with our southern neighbor everyone’s scared of the bogey man that doesn’t exist. “Well if someone sneaks into my bedroom window to stab me and my kids their getting shot!!” As if that has happened to anyone here or within 200 miles of here in the last 100 years...like do you listen to yourselves? You’ve lived perfectly boring safe lives for 20/30/50 years without legally being able to murder a person but you talk as if there’s some sudden urgency to arm yourselves with a legal option to kill without fear of repercussions?

I believe laws need to be weighted more on the side of the property owner. Is property worth dying over? No-and so the thief should keep that in mind when he decided to break in and steal! If would be thieves realized they may very well get themselves shot perhaps they would decide it wasnt worthwhike for them to steal. The existi g laws are simply too lenient-steal what you like, no one can legally do anything to you-let the property owner collect insurance and pat higher premiums in future-even if convicted you the thief won't even have to pay the deductible. I call B.S. on That -you want to steal or set a fire, when you get caught you pay the costs even if it takes you years.

There is a huge difference between protecting material items and protecting your family. It seems some people think that by someone using force to protect their yard or home they are concerned about their car, tv, etc. In reality, most are going with their gut and instinct to protect their children, spouse or parents.  
 
Thankfully I have never been in such a situation, but if the time came that some lowlife was creeping around my house then my instinct would be to do whatever I needed to protect my family.

MrDobalina said "Is you’re all talking about “if happens” as if it “did happen”. As is the problem with our southern neighbor everyone’s scared of the bogey man that doesn’t exist. “Well if someone sneaks into my bedroom window to stab me and my kids their getting shot!!” As if that has happened to anyone here or within 200 miles of here in the last 100 years...like do you listen to yourselves? You’ve lived perfectly boring safe lives for 20/30/50 years without legally being able to murder a person but you talk as if there’s some sudden urgency to arm yourselves with a legal option to kill without fear of repercussions? "

You have no idea what any of us have been through in our lives. Some people are grateful they survived a robbery or a home invasion and now take their safety very seriously. Obviously, you don''t watch the news and are oblivious to the real world around you. Some of us live out here...in reality.  
 
I guarantee WHEN something does happen to you or a loved one, you will change your tune.  
 
The OP asked opinions of the law, but thanks for trying to minimize what victims have actually lived through.  
 
Edited by Hackeda, 2018-08-31 22:43:27

It is a sad situation when you live out in the country and don't feel safe. I can't imagine feeling on edge all the time, especially with children.  
 
But instead of having guns, is a better solution to just have some really good guard dogs? "Sorry my dog bit you but don't trespass on my property". Are dogs a good enough deterrent for thieves?

Momtotwo said "It is a sad situation when you live out in the country and don't feel safe. I can't imagine feeling on edge all the time, especially with children.     But instead of having guns, is a better solution to just have some really good guard dogs? "Sorry my dog bit you but don't trespass on my property". Are dogs a good enough deterrent for thieves? "

Not when they poison them 1st then come back and rob you

I'm not really sure about the dog idea, I think that even if you had it posted that gaurd dogs were on duty, and your dog but someone you would be held liable.  
Your dogs, and you are supposed to be in control of them

I don’t believe any of the posters here have been subjected to life threatening home invasions. Having everyone armed waiting for the bogeyman who never comes just leads to more accidental shootings and in necessary violence. Most posters in this thread are advocating for the right to shoot first ask questions later.  
 
But you tell me Hackeda, give me some specific examples, some real scenarios that would justify passing laws that would allow anyone to shoot anyone trespassing or whatever? What victims specifically did I belittle? No need for names but give me 3 examples or are you just being hypothetical

MrDobalina said "Is you’re all talking about “if happens” as if it “did happen”. As is the problem with our southern neighbor everyone’s scared of the bogey man that doesn’t exist. “Well if someone sneaks into my bedroom window to stab me and my kids their getting shot!!” As if that has happened to anyone here or within 200 miles of here in the last 100 years...like do you listen to yourselves? You’ve lived perfectly boring safe lives for 20/30/50 years without legally being able to murder a person but you talk as if there’s some sudden urgency to arm yourselves with a legal option to kill without fear of repercussions? "

Not exactly but wesman has had its share of home invasions. Quite a few shots fired in and around Brandon in the last year or so. Saskatchewan is pretty close to our hundred mile city as far a crimes not that far away. I know rural theft the Carberry area is getting near as bad as out west. The boogey man here is not just murders or sounding but the increasing violent nature of both sides but especially the in your face we do not care attitude of the crooks. That I blame on drugs. If you feel the last 20 odd years and the nature of crimes is the same you are not living in the same country as us.

bring back the concept of weregild, or blood money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild). Seems this would address a lot of the concerns brought up in this thread: addressing invaders on your property, the right of the homeowner to guard their valuable possessions, the ability of property owners to defend themselves against the poor without criminal charges, etc.

example, RCMP shot in Onanole, MB., if they are going to shoot a officer, they would probably shoot a home owner

It’s a complex issue. Yes as had been said property is property and should not be a life. Having said that if I awaken to find someone in my home I have no idea their intentions nor how far they will go in their own interests. The Onanole incident was mentioned above and is an example. If I wake up hearing someone upstairs where my children are, what do I do? Police are too far away ( almost no use in this city ) If I go upstairs to ensure my children are safe then what? “Excuse me, could you please leave my home?” No. At that point I have to assume the worst for me and those in my home. Unfortunately criminals have too many rights and protections. If you choose to put me or my family in a dangerous situation, you have chosen the consequences as well.

MrDobalina said "I don’t believe any of the posters here have been subjected to life threatening home invasions. Having everyone armed waiting for the bogeyman who never comes just leads to more accidental shootings and in necessary violence. Most posters in this thread are advocating for the right to shoot first ask questions later.     But you tell me Hackeda, give me some specific examples, some real scenarios that would justify passing laws that would allow anyone to shoot anyone trespassing or whatever? What victims specifically did I belittle? No need for names but give me 3 examples or are you just being hypothetical "

I don't care what or who you believe. The OP asked for opinions. You chose to give your opinions about posters instead of laws and how we're all dreaming up scenarios. If you don't believe laws need to be changed, have at it. Some of us know and believe otherwise. We don't owe you justifications to how we got to this point.  
 
Live and learn. Keep dreaming, folks.