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Starting to get protest signs in our neighbouhood.

Starting to get protest signs in our neighbouhood.

Kida

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 470

Kida
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 470

Starting to get protest signs in our neighbouhood.
6/4/2020 at 4:50 AM

I don't want to start a political debate but I am concerned about our neighbourhood as we are starting to get #BLM signs around my neighbourhood.

I am just concerned for the residents in my block as we have a lot of children.

Has anyone seen this is their neighbourhoods??
UofAalum
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 64

UofAalum
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 64

????
6/4/2020 at 6:25 AM

Pardon my ignorance but what’s your concern? Just a sign trying to bring awareness to a cause imo. Doesn’t mean a riot will break out. Your kids may have questions, I’d be more concerned about how you’ll decide to answer them. Black Lives Matter.
TheQuietOne
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 588

TheQuietOne
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 588

Uh...
6/4/2020 at 6:28 AM

Can I ask what your reason for concern for the children in the neighborhood is? That they learn that racism is a terrible thing and systemic oppression still exists and needs to be changed?
1wrangler3
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 280

1wrangler3
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 280

.
6/4/2020 at 7:37 AM

Yikes. OP your comment is the exact reason these protests are happening. Immediately assume anything to do with BLM is violent or some type of criminal activity. Give your head a damn shake you’re embarrassing yourself.
JANOLE

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 590

JANOLE
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 590

Protest
6/4/2020 at 7:55 AM

Currenty Confused said "I don't want to start a political debate but I am concerned about our neighbourhood as we are starting to get #BLM signs around my neighbourhood.

I am just concerned for the residents in my block as we have a lot of children.

Has anyone seen this is their neighbourhoods?? "
Protesters are not the same as looters or rioters.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Signs
6/4/2020 at 7:59 AM

If you happen to catch the folks that are putting them up kindly suggest they make a stop in my neighbourhood too while they’re at it. As long as the signs aren’t doing damage to property and as long as they're conveying their message in support of equality in a peaceful way as is largely the case with what’s going on in the world right now, I’d argue that kids are a great place to start the conversation. This one showed up on a bus shelter a couple days ago, our kiddo asked about it and I appreciated the chance to talk about it ...
thelife
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 31

thelife
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 31

Wow!
6/4/2020 at 9:09 AM

Couldn’t have said it better myself, Adam!
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

as long as
6/4/2020 at 9:09 AM

the signs don't become tattered or torn. But I do take issue Adam with the sign printed on paper on the bus shelter, it wont take long for it to be torn from the wind or battered by rain. Or worse yet racist crap scribbled on it and defacing the original intent of the message.

I find it horrible that people cannot leave others alone to live their lives. I don't care what colour or religion someone practices, that's their life and they can do whatever makes their life worthwhile to live.

Edited by Johnbisonbear, 2020-06-04 09:10:11
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

100%
6/4/2020 at 10:10 AM

Johnbisonbear said "the signs don't become tattered or torn. But I do take issue Adam with the sign printed on paper on the bus shelter, it wont take long for it to be torn from the wind or battered by rain. Or worse yet racist crap scribbled on it and defacing the original intent of the message.

I find it horrible that people cannot leave others alone to live their lives. I don't care what colour or religion someone practices, that's their life and they can do whatever makes their life worthwhile to live.

Edited by Johnbisonbear, 2020-06-04 09:10:11"
I agree with you 100%. But I think the difference is that sometimes we do need to make an effort to overcome our prejudices. We all have them to some degree (I think it's something innate in people to be suspicious of people from "the outside"), but it's making that choice to not follow them. In time, you overcome them when you realize they're not, in fact, outsiders. But it's hard, and requires a degree of inner reflection that some people don't seem to possess in sufficient quantities (again, something many people need to consciously work at).

I know I have biases and prejudices deep down. They are often driven by fear. For example, when this whole COVID thing started I went to the grocery store and the cashier, whom I have seen there many times before, was of Asian descent. I had that fleeting moment where I was afraid of getting sick from her. But as quickly as I had the thought, I was able to intellectually smack myself upside the head to realize that her looking Asian didn't mean she had the virus. Only people, regardless of their appearance, who had traveled to Wuhan in the past 2 weeks could have the virus. I smiled at her and asked how her day was going, and life carried on.

My husband was shocked when I told him about this interior conversation I had with myself, but I think it illustrates the effort many people do have to make, whether we want to admit it or not. Some need to do it more than others - I'm pretty easy going and generally find a person's colour or religion irrelevant. But for the briefest moment, I was driven by fear, and that gave me a great insight into discrimination. It's fear, even if it's fear of losing privilege. The OP is afraid of protests, of "the children" - again, fear is a driving factor.

It doesn't justify discrimination, but it does change the conversation a bit at my end - a person of primarily caucasian origin who recognizes the impact of things like privilege and colonization. It's okay to be afraid - but it's acknowledging and choosing to not be afraid that will help move us, collectively, past this to a place where colour or religion truly doesn't matter.
Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

There are a lot of people hurting in the world!
6/4/2020 at 11:01 AM

I welcome signs and open respectful discussions on BLM and all the other lives of people facing daily racism. The sign is not the problem. The problem is too many people are turning a blind eye to effects of racism. Too many people are saying ‘It doesn’t affect me so leave me out of it’

The only way we can stop racism is to have open hard discussions. Every person no matter the gender, race or religious or spiritual beliefs has the right to be treated equally, to be safe and free from oppression. It affects everyone of us.
JustASoul
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 356

JustASoul
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 356

My thought
6/4/2020 at 11:11 AM

My only concern is that there are people on both sides of this discussion who have no interest in collaboration or open discussion.
tlr
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 633

tlr
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 633

Really
6/4/2020 at 11:40 AM

JustASoul said "My only concern is that there are people on both sides of this discussion who have no interest in collaboration or open discussion. "
You are fortunate, if that is your only concern.
artsylikes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 168

artsylikes
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 168

I am in full support of BLM
6/4/2020 at 11:58 AM

It has been far too long for this type of abuse and bullying! Watching the protests and seeing how they have amplified all over the world in solidarity is amazing. The desperation is clear, it is time to clean up the mess that has been ignited by racism. There is no us and them!
1wrangler3
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 280

1wrangler3
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 280

.
6/4/2020 at 12:00 PM

Abbysmum said "I agree with you 100%. But I think the difference is that sometimes we do need to make an effort to overcome our prejudices. We all have them to some degree (I think it's something innate in people to be suspicious of people from "the outside"), but it's making that choice to not follow them. In time, you overcome them when you realize they're not, in fact, outsiders. But it's hard, and requires a degree of inner reflection that some people don't seem to possess in sufficient quantities (again, something many people need to consciously work at).

I know I have biases and prejudices deep down. They are often driven by fear. For example, when this whole COVID thing started I went to the grocery store and the cashier, whom I have seen there many times before, was of Asian descent. I had that fleeting moment where I was afraid of getting sick from her. But as quickly as I had the thought, I was able to intellectually smack myself upside the head to realize that her looking Asian didn't mean she had the virus. Only people, regardless of their appearance, who had traveled to Wuhan in the past 2 weeks could have the virus. I smiled at her and asked how her day was going, and life carried on.

My husband was shocked when I told him about this interior conversation I had with myself, but I think it illustrates the effort many people do have to make, whether we want to admit it or not. Some need to do it more than others - I'm pretty easy going and generally find a person's colour or religion irrelevant. But for the briefest moment, I was driven by fear, and that gave me a great insight into discrimination. It's fear, even if it's fear of losing privilege. The OP is afraid of protests, of "the children" - again, fear is a driving factor.

It doesn't justify discrimination, but it does change the conversation a bit at my end - a person of primarily caucasian origin who recognizes the impact of things like privilege and colonization. It's okay to be afraid - but it's acknowledging and choosing to not be afraid that will help move us, collectively, past this to a place where colour or religion truly doesn't matter. "
Uhm, no. I don’t think most of us have our first thought of an Asian person be “yikes” cause of corona virus. I can’t even believe you are so open to post this on a public forum. You need to work on yourself. A lot
Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

We are human and will make mistakes in this discussion.
6/4/2020 at 12:20 PM

1wrangler3 said "Uhm, no. I don’t think most of us have our first thought of an Asian person be “yikes” cause of corona virus. I can’t even believe you are so open to post this on a public forum. You need to work on yourself. A lot "
1wrangler3 your judgement of Abbysmum is too harsh IMO. In order to have open discussions we have to be self aware, check our own tendency to judge others and be honest and open to an alternative way of thinking. This isn't an easy conversation to have. I applaud Abbysmum for her honesty. By putting herself and her thoughts out there she is taking a risk, showing self awareness and correcting those beliefs on her own. I also agree with Abbysmum that we all have biases in one way or another. We are human and will make mistakes in how we express ourselves based on how we were raised and how we have lived our lives. Open honest discussions are hard to have. Yes there will be people who will not be open but you can leave the door open for them to express their fears, their beliefs no matter how wrong. Then you can pose a question or an alternate way to think of the situation to them that allows them to think on their own beliefs. That is one way to handle this conversation. Some people you will simply have to challenge and refuse to let them hurl their hurtful comments.

I believe our focus is on changing what is socially acceptable in our own hearts and in society, demand change to our country's policies and stand up to (as safely as possible) people who are acting in a racist manner by saying 'Stop, this is wrong and unacceptable'.

That is my view on supporting change.

Edited by Spades!!, 2020-06-04 12:23:44
justme
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 542

justme
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 542

where
6/4/2020 at 12:30 PM

Do I pick up a sign?
Fondue
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1240

Fondue
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1240

..
6/4/2020 at 12:42 PM

Spades!! said "1wrangler3 your judgement of Abbysmum is too harsh IMO. In order to have open discussions we have to be self aware, check our own tendency to judge others and be honest and open to an alternative way of thinking. This isn't an easy conversation to have. I applaud Abbysmum for her honesty. By putting herself and her thoughts out there she is taking a risk, showing self awareness and correcting those beliefs on her own. I also agree with Abbysmum that we all have biases in one way or another. We are human and will make mistakes in how we express ourselves based on how we were raised and how we have lived our lives. Open honest discussions are hard to have. Yes there will be people who will not be open but you can leave the door open for them to express their fears, their beliefs no matter how wrong. Then you can pose a question or an alternate way to think of the situation to them that allows them to think on their own beliefs. That is one way to handle this conversation. Some people you will simply have to challenge and refuse to let them hurl their hurtful comments.

I believe our focus is on changing what is socially acceptable in our own hearts and in society, demand change to our country's policies and stand up to (as safely as possible) people who are acting in a racist manner by saying 'Stop, this is wrong and unacceptable'.

That is my view on supporting change.

Edited by Spades!!, 2020-06-04 12:23:44"
I applaud Abbysmum for her comments and openness. There is nothing wrong for what she said. I am a person of Asian descent. It's people like Abbysmum that I want to be friends with. She admitted her biases and prejudices because of fear. That's how you change or make an effort to understand other cultures or races.
I rather someone ask me if they don't understand certain things other cultures do things, than jump to judgement and conclusions. I asked my "white" friends and co-workers if I don't understand certain Canadian cultures and I learned from them.
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5038

fear &; anger
6/4/2020 at 2:02 PM

1wrangler3 said "Uhm, no. I don’t think most of us have our first thought of an Asian person be “yikes” cause of corona virus. I can’t even believe you are so open to post this on a public forum. You need to work on yourself. A lot "
Thank-you to those who are encouraging open discussion and not being judgemental. Sometimes difficult discussions mean you need to admit difficult things in order to move forward.

wrangler, I'm not proud that I even had that thought bubble to the surface, and considered carefully before sharing. However, I have come to conclusion that it was worth being judged and even insulted if it helps people understand that even if you consider yourself "enlightened" or "indiscriminate", sometimes those thoughts bubble to the surface from a place deep inside us. No one ever wants to admit they have had feelings like that, but I would suspect a person who claims they have *never* had irrational thoughts like that are either not very self-aware, or are lying to themselves or others.

Feelings are not right or wrong in the sense that you can't help those reactions. They come from a place not in our control. It is, however, important that we learn how to deal with those feelings. There are right and wrong ways to react to those feelings. In time, once we realize there is in fact no threat, those feelings fade. I only had that reaction once, and once I realized that they posed no threat it became a non-issue.

I'm glad you have never had those feelings. They are dark and embarrassing and I know they're my problem. But please consider your own words - they seem harsh and judgemental although I'm not sure that's what was intended. We all need work.

Peace be with you.
Teacherman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 116

Teacherman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 116

Outstanding Responses
6/4/2020 at 3:30 PM

My favorite part of this thread is that the OP has disappeared after not getting the racist support they were hoping for. So glad to see the positive comments and BLM support from our community.
Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Hmmmm reading back on posts, including mine,
6/4/2020 at 3:52 PM

Teacherman said "My favorite part of this thread is that the OP has disappeared after not getting the racist support they were hoping for. So glad to see the positive comments and BLM support from our community. "
What if we were to view people as misinformed and scared rather than racists. There are racists views and comments all over the place and the OP's post that started this thread definitely was a good example of lack of knowledge, understanding of the issues. Might say it was typical response related to white privilege. But usually the underlying problem is fear.

If we shame everyone who wrongly expresses a question about something they lack understanding of, then we will scare everyone away or make people strike out in anger. No one wants to be shamed or judged. It doesn't change people. It just makes them shut down.

When I read back on my posts here, I certainly could be more careful in how I word things, try to avoid labeling. The language we use is so important. It is also important to listen to what those who are marginalized are trying to tell us.
tawktru
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8

tawktru
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 8

Wow!
6/4/2020 at 7:16 PM

Are you for real with this comment/ concern??? You obviously need to wake up and also this is the opportunity to give " the children on the neighborhood " an education about humans, people, culture, race... so that they grow up to be good humans. All o can say is wow!!! This should not be a concern!
Summertime
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 931

Summertime
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 931

BLM
6/4/2020 at 7:38 PM

I was taking my usual walk along the bike path on west Victoria, by Riverheights terrace and came across several signs. The signs were a bit different that the one posted by Adam, but had the same message, and really made me think. I definitely grew up with racism all around me, and have taken the opportunity in adulthood to become informed, and to do better. There was a quote that I saw lately that best sums up what I’m feeling: “I understand that I will never understand.” The only fear I have when I get pulled over by police is “ah crap, I’m going to get a ticket!”, never has “will this be the end” crossed my mind. EVER! So, I repeat, “I understand that I will never understand” If the signs get us talking, I’m all for it! Let’s talk!! BLM!!

Edited by New times, 2020-06-04 19:39:36
BuddyCthulhu
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 387

BuddyCthulhu
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 387

It would be nice . . .
6/4/2020 at 8:30 PM

It would be nice if Currently Confused could respond to their post to say what the concerns are, and in which neighbourhood this was occurring. Could we wait to rush to judgement until then?
JustASoul
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 356

JustASoul
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 356

Well
6/4/2020 at 8:38 PM

I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if the OP has decided this may not be the safest place for open dialogue.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

18th and Victoria
6/4/2020 at 9:40 PM

A peaceful demonstration of about two dozen at 18th and Victoria this evening. Reference to at least three different protests/demonstrations being planned in the city in the days ahead, any that I've seen having the word 'peaceful' associated with them as well.
Whogoesthere
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 3

Whogoesthere
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 3

Blows my mind
6/4/2020 at 11:42 PM

how everyone is so outraged right now and in support of blm which I have no problem and people should be mad and appalled at what happened but where are the protest for when first nation people are murdered or first nation women go missing. I'm not saying people of color don't experience racism on a daily basis but I would think in canada at least first nation people have been at the hands and suffering longer than anyone and yet there is no protests there is no outrage like we are seeing now. I am also tired of hearing white privilege throw at any Caucasian person who doesn't necessarily agree with all the points racism happens to everyone telling people to check there privilege because they are white that is also racism. It stops when everybody gets on the same page and i hate to break it to people but that will never change and you can say its because of that kind of attitude it won't but in my opinion trading one form of racism for another wont change anything. Also putting all law enforcement in the category is brutal there are good and bad people in every job no matter what job it is and I know they are sworn to serve and protect us all and put to different standards than any other job but they are for more good officers out there than there are bad. And for most people when s***t hits the fan thats who they call to come and help. Everyone's lives matter not one races more than others but everyone's
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

BLM
6/5/2020 at 8:00 AM

I know you didn’t intend it this way, but that there are some that would like to simply write this off as “racism happens to everyone” is a great example of the kind of mindset that’s held back progress and the kind of mindset that I see some hope for change in in some of the discourse over the last couple weeks. It doesn’t effect everyone equally and I’d suggest that what’s going on right now provides as good of an opportunity as you’ll find to listen and come to understand that.

You seem to be making a common mistake in wrongly assuming that there’s an “only” in front of “Black Lives Matter.” Please read before proceeding:
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/a32745051/what-black-lives-matter-means/

For the average reasonable Caucasian it’s not about something wilfully done to cause harm, so much of it is in the dynamics that have been in place long before you or I were born that afford privilege in the form of more advantage and spare more disadvantage than many in minority situations. By association that means that others in minority situations are in many cases at a disadvantage simply because of their race and/or where they were born. That’s wrong to have to live with that ingrained inequality and at the core of this discussion I have a hard time understanding how there could be some “side” that says it isn’t.

Just in watching this unfold South of the border, I think some of the unease around the topic comes out of fear, misunderstanding or disagreement around the unknown of what the solutions might be. Starting with exploring the idea of that privilege and ingrained prejudices and building an understanding that people are people regardless of our subtle differences and deserve to have the same opportunities with and without the same obstacles, I’d be real interested in hearing more stories that put that privilege into context along with others’ constructive thoughts on solutions.
Winter123
Joined: This month
Posts: 848

Winter123
Joined: This month
Posts: 848

op
6/5/2020 at 8:17 AM

I have reread the original post a few times. I think the OP was posting out of fear. Not because of the actual signs but because of the thought that non-peaceful protests may take place. That is how I read it anyway. I could be wrong.
don brown
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4956

don brown
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4956

Maybe easier said than done
6/5/2020 at 8:27 AM

For some unknown reason we are taught to be afraid, maybe we should be taught to respect not fear.
Going back to the farmer part of me, we have cows that would like to kill me for a few days after they have a calf, I don’t fear them, I respect them. Likely going back to johnbisonbear’s comment, best to worry about what you are doing , and allow others to live their lives.
TripleTrouble
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29

TripleTrouble
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 29

Triple Trouble
6/5/2020 at 8:36 AM

I grew up in Toronto back in the 40's. We shared our lives with many black friends. I played with the children. white and black. My dad would sit me down and would always tell me that we were all the same just a little extra color. I still keep in contact with these friends. I guess what I am trying to say, we should not judge by color, it is the person whom we should respect. We are all the same.