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Biden versus Trump

Biden versus Trump

hyde
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159

hyde
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159

Biden versus Trump
8/26/2021 at 10:38 PM

It’s quite interesting how no one cares to comment on the way things are going with the current administration in the USA yet Trump was criticized endlessly, and how much worse can things get before it even gets a mention…
Teacherman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 116

Teacherman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 116

Pretty Simple
8/26/2021 at 11:30 PM

Trump was actively making things worse, and was also a trash bag of a human being. Biden is making an effort to help where he can. It's not that hard to see.
jjames
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 100

jjames
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 100

Trump the media pig
8/26/2021 at 11:54 PM

Difference is Trump needed to create media chaos every time he whipped his nose. He craved the chaos in creating controversy and division, whereas Biden is trying to quietly go about doing his job. If Trump spent less time on social media, press conferences, and golf he might have been able to succeed. Unfortunately when you publicly create enemies they will strike back. Lesson here: not all press is good press!
jjames
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 100

jjames
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 100

Biden
8/26/2021 at 11:56 PM

I can’t say Biden isn’t doing some questionable stuff either but at the very least he’s not actively seeking to tear the country apart.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

False equivalencies
8/27/2021 at 4:12 AM

Seems like there’s an active effort from some in the former president-style R camp to play the false equivalency game on this topic. One either respects the difference between wilful intent and not or they don’t. If they don’t there just isn’t much point in getting bogged down in a fight over another country’s especially polarized politics or the critical role of media within the frame of reference of that particular country.

A discussion on decisions made in Afghanistan over the past half century that have led to this point, what could’ve/should’ve been done differently and more importantly what can or should be done from this point forward I could see being a lot more constructive.
JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 796

JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 796

Really?
8/27/2021 at 9:43 AM

Momof-one said "Have a dementia patient in the oval office and a vice president that laughs at everything but hey no mean tweets!! "
A dementia patient? Biden overcomes a stutter when he talks, so yeah, his speech is not perfect, that does not make him a dementia patient.

In truth, your mean tweeter could not string together a coherent sentence, and yet his worshippers ignored that fact.

Now the trump faction is running down Biden for pulling out of Afghanistan-while totally ignoring the fact that trump did the same thing in Syria. Does no one want to remember how the Kurds were simply left behind to their fate in Syria ?
Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Biden does not have dementia
8/27/2021 at 10:30 AM

I have worked with people with dementia for over 20 yrs. Dementia ruins a person ability to remember simple things, there is lack of coherence. If Biden had dementia he would not be able to give speeches. Nor would he be able to follow a tele-prompter.
A person with dementia would ramble off on irrelevant topics, not be able to hold a train of thought and forget the task they are doing in the moment.

And previous post is correct. Biden has had to overcome a speech impediment ie stutter. This may come out more when he is exhausted or in a high stress situation.
hyde
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159

hyde
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159

Adam
8/27/2021 at 11:01 AM

You’ve never hid it that you’re a far left guy If a person says the wrong thing you get deleted just like on Twitter
Hashidoi
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78

Hashidoi
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78

The Reasons
8/27/2021 at 1:53 PM

hyde said "It’s quite interesting how no one cares to comment on the way things are going with the current administration in the USA yet Trump was criticized endlessly, and how much worse can things get before it even gets a mention… "
The 'way things are going' was set in motion decades ago.

Every president starting with at least Reagan is complicit in some way in allowing things to get as they are.

Future presidents are going to keep doing this same thing for as long as they can. No matter who it is. No matter what 'side' they might represent. It's going to get worse.

That said, there are exactly two reasons why it appears like Trump was being criticized more than other contemporary presidents:

1) He was incredibly bad at politics by political standards.
2) He developed this weird cult-like following that just won't let it go.
Adam

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Adam
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 15663

Left/right/middle/all of the above and none of the above
8/27/2021 at 2:51 PM

hyde said "You’ve never hid it that you’re a far left guy If a person says the wrong thing you get deleted just like on Twitter "
Heheh that “with us or against us” mindset seems to be another trademark of folks on the USA hard-right train and is exactly how that particular country has gotten so excessively polarized. I’ll put you down in the column of looking for a fight but having no interest in discussing based on the facts and history of Afghanistan or on suggestions of how the international community might help be part of the solution.
hyde
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159

hyde
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 159

What’s funny
8/27/2021 at 2:57 PM

One thing you can be sure Trump would’ve never left Americans or ammunition or any of that stuff behind
Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

That is a naive statement Hyde
8/27/2021 at 4:12 PM

Given Trump’s inadequacy as both the president and a human being. Trump would have caved to the pressure.
Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

Spades!!
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1224

besides my obvious dislike for Trump
8/27/2021 at 4:35 PM

Afghan army simply laid down their arms and did not fight the Taliban who are much better fighters. Inadequately paid and poorly supported by the Afghan government, they simply let the Taliban take over. It all happened so fast no one was prepared for it.
Teacherman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 116

Teacherman
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 116

Yikes
8/27/2021 at 4:35 PM

You're probably right, but he likely would have just ordered troops to open fire on everyone and started another war. If you truly believe he was a capable leader in any sense then we have no opportunity for a real debate here.
JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 796

JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 796

A couple things
8/27/2021 at 6:17 PM

Since some of those Americans still there trying to get out are Afghan Americans...I am not so sure that trump would have worried about getting them out.

Secondly-when it comes to the idea that the Afghan army just put down their arms and quit, the sad fact is they had little hope of holding off the Taliban. They had ground forces only. Their fighter pilots all ended up cornered at the airport and flew out in one of the planes. The fighter pilots say they could do nothing. They had planes. That is it. They had no missiles. What good is a fighter plane without missiles? What hope did the army have without any air support? So yeah, they did not fight as fighting would have been nothing more than suicide.
Bass-ic
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 217

Bass-ic
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 217

The title
8/27/2021 at 11:20 PM

suggests this is a heavy weight boxing match.
Hashidoi
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78

Hashidoi
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 78

What's Really Funny
8/28/2021 at 3:22 AM

hyde said "One thing you can be sure Trump would’ve never left Americans or ammunition or any of that stuff behind "
Of all of the things I am sure of, I don't think this is one of them. How are you so sure?

Please, please enlighten me. I am positively -dying- to know.

Edited by Hashidoi, 2021-08-28 03:42:16
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

.
8/28/2021 at 7:39 AM

hyde said "It’s quite interesting how no one cares to comment on the way things are going with the current administration in the USA yet Trump was criticized endlessly, and how much worse can things get before it even gets a mention… "
Do you not watch the news? Biden is criticized constantly especially on entertainment networks like FOX.
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Hmm....
8/28/2021 at 7:53 AM

Momof-one said "Have a dementia patient in the oval office and a vice president that laughs at everything but hey no mean tweets!! "
Are you really going to drop the "dementia" bomb without acknowledging that Trump was accused of having dementia for over a year until psychologists informed the public that he suffers multiple mental illnesses?
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Are you kidding?
8/28/2021 at 8:00 AM

hyde said "One thing you can be sure Trump would’ve never left Americans or ammunition or any of that stuff behind "
Are you honestly saying that he is more organized than the current administration? He claims to be friends with the leader of the Taliban since they held their "negotiation" conversations via telephone. He would not have honored any of the agreements with the interpreters or other workers who assisted the soldiers. You are heralding the most dishonest, corrupt, cruel president in that country's history. Who cares if he would have brought the ammo back?
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

.
8/28/2021 at 8:10 AM

hyde said "One thing you can be sure Trump would’ve never left Americans or ammunition or any of that stuff behind "
The equipment, vehicles and guns for the most part was no longer the property of the U.S. soldiers. The U.S. government had either sold or given it to the Afghan government who in turn gave it to their soldiers. The Taliban took it from the Afghan military when they took over the cities.

The Americans did not leave any high tech or high quality equipment behind. What they did leave was not worth them bringing back. I will also add that the U.S. has left behind equipment in every major war they have been involved in as do all other countries. I highly doubt Trump would have an itemized recovery list.
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

The man
8/28/2021 at 8:20 AM

Momof-one said "Look at videos of Biden 20 years ago vs today the difference is huge. He can't read a teleprompter he mixes up words constantly. He has strange outburst "I wipe my but" or other nonsense gibrish.

It's sad that America the country that put a man on the moon and the best people the choose for their country is the people in the last 2 elections. "
is 78 years old. I guess there are differences from now to twenty years ago...as there are in everyone. Do you have any concept how much information is stored in that man's mind? How many names, dates, places, etc. He is allowed to stumble on his words. His predecessor, who referred to himself as the stable genius, couldn't recall the names of people he knew for years who were sitting beside him or the names of towns he was visiting. There are countless videos of him slurring and blundering his way through conversations unable to pronounce simple words. Your argument is ridiculous.
PoodleLuvr
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 66

PoodleLuvr
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 66

USA
8/28/2021 at 9:46 AM

For the record the Americans left a lot of vehicles, weapons and equipment. It's easily looked up with a Google search by the way. The US can't account for it all but it's estimated around 85 billion though. The equipment includes 200 aircraft many Black Hawk helicopters, 75000 vehicles, and 600,000 weapons. Let's just say the Taliban is now well equipped with "high tech" modern weaponry and vehicles. So ya it wasn't junk they left behind.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Well I don't know if Biden
8/28/2021 at 9:47 AM

has dementia or not but I do fear his health is declining. The one press conference he could barely speak loud enough to hear. One of the signs of declining health is the inability to speak loud enough to be heard. hope the president is getting good care and having medical checks, both physical and mental.
JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 796

JessieJay
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 796

Hmmm
8/28/2021 at 10:24 AM

It's hard to fight when you have no weapons... helicopters and planes may have been left behind but there were no weapons for those aircraft, according to the pilots.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6151739

So, without weapons the pilots were useless. Without air support the ground forces were in a hopeless position. No wonder the Afghans did not fight. As for things left behind-the Taliban have a bunch of useless aircraft. Whatever weapons they acquired in the take over are probably nothing they did not already have.
Marpet
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 666

Marpet
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 666

Interesting take.
8/28/2021 at 3:35 PM

hyde said "One thing you can be sure Trump would’ve never left Americans or ammunition or any of that stuff behind "
Just wondering how Trump expected the Afghan forces to fight agaisnt the Taliban if the U.S. wasn't going to leave any equipment or ammunition behind? Pointy sticks?
The U.S. has been training Afghan forces for 20 years to fight terrorism. They folded in four days.
The President fled the country with $170 million in cash. Even Afghans won't fight for Afghanistan.
Bring the boys home. That area of the world will be mired in unrest for eternity. Thats what religion does for you.
big_g
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 102

big_g
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 102

Trump
8/28/2021 at 11:52 PM

is only concerned about things that will benefit him. Announce months ago he’s bringing home the troops to benefit his chances in the election. Pocket money on behind the scenes military contracts or give then to his supporters. Essentially trying to make him look like a hero to his inbred, mullet wearing, gun toting, Chevy driving, bible hugging, flag waving, rednecks who believe every word he says as much as a televangelist.
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

I call b.s.
8/29/2021 at 4:03 AM

PoodleLuvr said "For the record the Americans left a lot of vehicles, weapons and equipment. It's easily looked up with a Google search by the way. The US can't account for it all but it's estimated around 85 billion though. The equipment includes 200 aircraft many Black Hawk helicopters, 75000 vehicles, and 600,000 weapons. Let's just say the Taliban is now well equipped with "high tech" modern weaponry and vehicles. So ya it wasn't junk they left behind. "
to your estimates. The U.S. government did not abandon 75,000 vehicles. Even if you i:ncluded the vehicles left behind by civilian personnel the number isn't even close. As you've chosen to disregard the fact that vehicles had been seized from the Afghans by the Taliban I think you need to either back down from those ridiculous numbers or provide a link where you read that. (And I don't need to do a Google search by the way to verify your assertions). I have been following this situation for a long time, not simply the last couple of weeks.

Edited by Gussins, 2021-08-29 04:03:31
Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

Farmergeorge
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 1837

BBC
8/29/2021 at 7:27 AM

Gussins said "to your estimates. The U.S. government did not abandon 75,000 vehicles. Even if you i:ncluded the vehicles left behind by civilian personnel the number isn't even close. As you've chosen to disregard the fact that vehicles had been seized from the Afghans by the Taliban I think you need to either back down from those ridiculous numbers or provide a link where you read that. (And I don't need to do a Google search by the way to verify your assertions). I have been following this situation for a long time, not simply the last couple of weeks.

Edited by Gussins, 2021-08-29 04:03:31"
There is a story referencing the hardware left in Afghanistan on BBC News site at the moment which draws information from social media, satellite images and known inventory supplied to Afghan forces. The numbers reported however are vastly lower than those claimed here on ebrandon.
All of this is really the fault of those leaders who took us into Afghanistan 20 years ago. My late grandfather said at the time that it was a mistake , none of the afghans could be trusted and that little would be achieved there. He knew what he was talking about because he had served in Afghanistan inThe British army prior to World War Two.
We have got to accept that this is an area where tribes have been fighting each other for centuries and will continue to do so. Each time we intervene we make matters worse and one way or another we weaponize them. America isn’t innocent. They equipped the Taliban to fight against the Russians in the 1980s.
We have to learn from history and stay out of these places.
Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

Gussins
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 380

I agree with
8/29/2021 at 9:21 AM

Your post 100% but will state that although we shouldn't have involved ourselves in the first place, Canada should have honoured their promises to our interpreters and those who helped our soldiers. This will not be forgotten.