Discussions

So for fun, let’s game this out.  
 
Currently Canada’s various provinces and territories have different levels of measures or restrictions in place, determined by decision-makers in coordination with public health, medical, epedemiological experts in order to limit the effects of the virus, in particular the potentially catastrophic effects on medical systems. Each province by authority of its own health system and on the advice of its own medical experts has measures in place specific to its own unique needs to keep its people safe. 
 
Right now Canada is in the middle of the Omicron wave. Different levels of seriousness by region. It’s fairly accepted I think that this is something that should look a lot better in somewhete from a few to a handful of weeks.  
 
Protest group, with no real medical basis that I’m aware of, is saying it’s staying until restrictions are lifted (not just the trucker vaccine mandate that started this). It’s saying it wants to discuss with the PM.  
 
Some have conspiracy theories that it’s part of some wider government dream to establish long-term control (you've seen the posts on Facebook). Most that have come across these types on social media would I suspect tell you that rationing on these topics doesn't come without serious obstacles.   I’m sure it’s not everybody within the protest group, but you don't have to look far to see those elements in a meaningful amount of supporters.  Whatever percentage of protesters fit that description are so out in left field and disconnected from reality that I just can't see how they can be part of a constructive conversation on COVID measures… unless they would be open to a conversation that would help them understand why there is no such conspiracy ... and failing that be receptive to mental health resources.  

Some within the group (Western emphasis I believe) just straight up partisan hate the PM (you've seen the bumper stickers) and perhaps still wishing the election we just had went another way. Whatever percentage fit that description and have gone to the lengths to go to Ottawa, what ways are they going to be rationed with. 
 
With that as the lay of the land, what are directions that that conversation with the PM can go on an exchange that has to be centred around facts surrounding the medical realities of state of COVID in Canada right now? Is the ask that he encourage provinces to overrule whatever medical advice they’re getting and open up sooner than their respective medical experts have assessed is safe for their particular regions? Is there representation for a subset of the protest group that aren’t lost in conspiracy theory land that could be rationed with? Would that representation have any credibility with the conspiracy theory crowd to talk them down?  
 
Not that I think PM will or should do this, but hypothetically let’s say he looks at Omicron, sees that most regions are showing some hopeful signs and agrees to take the risk to lives of encouraging provinces to a premature reopen so that trucks essentially holding the city hostage leave. What then is the pushback that PM and provinces have to deal with from everyone that understands why these measures are necessary… and would we at that point have any more doctors that would want to stay in Canada to serve future medical needs?  
 
Then fast forward x months down the road and a future variant. New threat, new type of seriousness, medical and epedemiological experts in provinces advise a new level of measures in order to protect the public and medical systems. Are provinces, through PM, supposed to first check with this minority group and whatever non-medical voices are guiding it and see if if they should be allowed to implement necessary measures deemed vital to protect the vast majority that respect the need for them?  

 
My head hurts a little trying to see what the path is through this. If not prepared to move by force, this might just have to be a slow “wait them out” until Omicron improves over the next few weeks and provinces deem it medically appropriate to make changes. At that point, wider Canada gets what it needs and I suppose this minority group comes away with what it went to Ottawa wanting… even if on the same schedule it would’ve been without them. Awful for the folks and businesses in Ottawa but unless someone with an understanding and respect for the public health side of this that has credibility with this group effectively communicates to them that they're holding out for something that's going to happen anyway and asks them to leave I’m not sure what path I see that’s responsible to the average Canadian that understands that what’s being asked for just aren’t reasonable demands.

In Manitoba…  
 
-Highest COVID hospitalization rate in Canada and it’s not even close  
 
-Province has said that by later this Spring as long as everything stays on the track with what the data is pointing to we would move towards an environment without nearly all restrictions, in stead moving toward recommendations  
 
Anybody (especially politicians) supporting anything connected to this protest in this province needs to be clear that they understand those points and needs to be clear on what should happen in their sooner-restriction-free-world if/when hospitalizations and ICU bed use spin out of control to the point where there can’t be care for patients (COVID or not) that require it.  
 
What’s being asked for looks like it will happen in a handful of weeks anyway. I don’t see any protest disconnected from the medical realities around this moving that up by a few weeks whether it’s one, a thousand or a hundred thousand people.

It does kind of render the demonstrations pointless. Especially this late in the game, trudaeu should stay in hiding and stop Dividing Canadians.

This post in just a couple sentences really highlights what a big part of the problem seems to be here. How many that are part of this protesting just have a hate-on for the PM and are picking the worst time ever for a partisan push that makes it especially difficult to govern in accordance with mandate that came from an election just a few short months ago?  
 
Some questions to help me understand, starting from the point of view that the protesters' stated demand is that all mandates be lifted (not just the cross-border trucker vaccine requirement)...  
 
-If this is truly an actual protest that hopes to have a realistic chance to inspire change on  public health measures and restrictions, do you understand that within just a handful of weeks if Omicron follows the same pattern its followed elsewhere we're likely naturally heading into an environment where restrictions will be mostly lifted anyway (Manitoba officials have basically said just that this week)?  
 
-how do you weigh any benefit of having those restrictions lifted a few weeks earlier versus that earlier lifting likely leading to excess hospitalizations and ICU care that medical systems (especially Manitoba where we're far and away worst in Canada) can't handle?  (please don't say build new hospitals, that isn't happening in a month nor is staffing them)
 
-do you see how lifting a few weeks earlier could actually undo any progress, prolong this and create a need for stricter restrictions than we've seen so far in this wave to get it back under control again?  
 
-keep seeing references to Trudeau. What have you done to make your factual, medically-based case to Manitoba officials and our premier (politically opposite to Trudeau), who make decisions as it pertains to our restrictions in this province with advice from professional medical public health officials and those with epedemiological expertise?

-what in your background do you feel qualifies you to over-rule decisions based on expertise from those public health officials?

GoFundMe has announced that it has removed the fundraiser from the platform and that no further funds will be released to organizers, citing violation of terms and noting:  
 
“ We now have evidence from law enforcement that the previously peaceful demonstration has become an occupation, with police reports of violence and other unlawful activity.”  
 
https://medium.com/gofundme-stories/update-gofundme-statement-on-the-freedom-convoy-2022-fundraiser-4ca7e9714e82  
 
Ontario Premier Doug Ford is referring to this as an occupation and calling for participants to leave: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/gofundme-stops-payments-1.6340526

A very good read at the link below for an understanding of where the response is at going into the weekend, the evolving Police response and reference to the stand-back approach of the past week from Police being about to change.  
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thehouse/pandemic-covid-vaccine-trucker-convoy-protest-1.6340278

Later in the article, the opinion from a BC Associate Professor comparing to a political rally really gave another way to look at. Their comment:  
“This is a strategy to put together a coordinated political movement and back candidates in the long term."  
If an accurate opinion, in the context of organizer connections to Wexit and Maverick Party (resigned this week to focus on convoy) it gives an idea of where this might try to lead as far as trying to carve out space for far-right influence in Canadian politics. Reading about the background in a Western-focused sort of nationalism makes all of the heavy use of the word "unity" with Canada flags et all seem all the more confusing. 

Being a discussion forum, lots of room for factual and rational discussion here but seems like just about every time there's a rebuttal that asks questions we mostly seem to just see someone drop in with more divisive and misleading words that avoid answering core questions.

Truckers have an industry-specific voice at the table. It's called the Canadian Trucking Alliance. Check out their site below. They don't support the protest, encourage further vaccine uptake in the sector and this week while a very small minority of truckers were part of this protest-turned-occupation the CTA were actually at the table with the federal Transportation Minister exploring constructive solutions to supply chain & labour challenges and the economic recovery:  
https://cantruck.ca

I think you’re confusing what you want this to be with what it is, as much as it's a testament to what a mess this is of different priorities and goals within. Organizers have stated that the occupation is tied to COVID mandates, saying that they’re going nowhere until all mandates are lifted. No demands for a new system of government tied to said occupation that I've seen.  
 
There’s most definitely a political aspect to it, with seemingly an out-sized anti-Trudeau bent. Here’s the thing though for those that identify in this as a vehicle for more general political discontent. We had an election less than five months ago. Those who like Trudeau, those who don’t and those who don’t stake their vote on one figure or on a particular partisan slant all had their chance to play a part in democracy. They did, the Liberals formed government. There’s been no earth-shifting change since then politically to justify a minority of people marching/driving to Ottawa and demanding a change that they werent able to accomplish at the ballot box. A lot of the more political anger and propaganda I’ve read that’s tied to the occupation is the same old recycled PPC-style anger talking points (which in many cases is recycled USA far-right talking points) that got more than fair share of attention during the election and only ended up with 5% of the vote. You might suggest that some of the Conservative vote will have sympathized with some of those viewpoints, but this week we're seeing that the party is anything but unified behind what's taking place in Ottawa right now.   

If there is an earth-shifting change, that exact same democratic system has within it a check and balance that allows parties to force another election on a minority government where folks like you and I would each get our equal single votes once again.  But there's a point where if capital city is getting taken over by the same minority every time they in their minority want to reaffirm their distaste for gov that its really only having the effect of making this an especially hard country to govern... during a public health emergency at that. 
 
All that said, totally agree that politics is too much of a team sport. It can be frustrating to see messaging be what a centralized communications team comes up with. That much more frustrating when our own riding doesn’t have an MP within government, even though I think Larry M does what he can within the system to represent. You’re fooling yourself if you think it’s just a Liberal thing or even just a federal thing though. Harper gov before them were same thing. Current provincial PC gov, same thing. NDP gov before them, every bit the same if not worse. I’m not sure I’ve seen what you’re describing that federal Conservatives (clearly very divided right now and in search of direction) are onto anything different… and when it comes to this occupation they seem very split on whether it’s time for it to end or to fan the flames without offering constructive solutions.  
 
If you can come up with a better system that isn’t led by people with past separatism threats in their history and one that makes it crystal clear that it does not accept hate, intolerance or bigotry then we might have something to talk about. Maybe if presented in the form of a movement without those elements it's even something gov and parties would engage on.... but as long as those types of elements of divisiveness, misinformation and partisan bent are at the core this is an awfully difficult one for anywhere near a majority of Canada to hitch it’s wagon to (32% in most recent poll said they identify with).