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today I find myself asking myself what appears the same old question......Why? Why so much anger, so much hatred to our fellow man. When a tragedy happens like the one that recently occurred in South Carolina where 9 innocent lives were taken from us at a place of worship, the first thing you hear of besides it being a tragedy is Racism.  
To have that much hate for another human being. I hear to many times about People having deep hate for different races, nationalities, etc. I am a loss for words on why such a deep hate. What are your thoughts on all the hate, racism, etc. is it phychological, for attention, or for other reasons we can't wrap our heads around and understand?

DDOG said "today I find myself asking myself what appears the same old question......Why? Why so much anger, so much hatred to our fellow man. When a tragedy happens like the one that recently occurred in South Carolina where 9 innocent lives were taken from us at a place of worship, the first thing you hear of besides it being a tragedy is Racism.   To have that much hate for another human being. I hear to many times about People having deep hate for different races, nationalities, etc. I am a loss for words on why such a deep hate. What are your thoughts on all the hate, racism, etc. is it phychological, for attention, or for other reasons we can't wrap our heads around and understand? "

I myself have followed the news locally, nationally and internationally more now since I hung up my Uniform due to medical reasons, my heart grows heavy everytime I hear of a fellow Law Enforcement Brother or Sister has passed away while serving the people, when I hear of an innocent soul taken away to soon by violence. I was raised not to judge people by their religion, color of their skin or where they come from.  
I wonder how a person can have so much hatred to take a persons life whether they know the person or if the person is a complete stranger.  
I have many friends of all nationalities, many religions, many beliefs yet I see who they are inside where it matters the most.  
The wounds are deep, people of all faiths, beliefs, nationalities will come together to overcome another senseless tragedy.

Ive been watching the news and see all of these shootings going on and what the world needs is for everyone to WAKE UP. Laws need to be changed more resources need to be out there for poeple. Im not condoning what poeple do but i was watching CNN today and all they could talk about was how the judge talked about the suspects family and they shot that down saying how could he. Most of the time the family has nothing to do with it. We always hear we never saw any signs and didnt see this coming from family and friends. Poeple who do this type of stuff should be punished but we also have to look at it from another point of view as well. Maybe they have a mental illness. The way society seems to be going is that poeple that commit unspeakable crimes who have a mental illness are evil and should be locked away or put to death. But yet if someone hurts themselves or even commits suicide then all of a sudden everyone starts talking and saying things like poor person they need help but had no where to turn we need more resources for poeple who have a mental illness. We cannt help one person and punishor forget about others we need to all WAKE UP.

Like we "helped" Vince Li? There are some that are beyond help, and the only way their 'meds' will help them from commiting another crime is if they take them! Unfortunately, there is NO system, or help, that is capable of forcing someone with a mental illness to do so. And until there is accountability for their actions, they should be treated like any other criminal. Period!

Sfox said "Ive been watching the news and see all of these shootings going on and what the world needs is for everyone to WAKE UP. Laws need to be changed more resources need to be out there for poeple. Im not condoning what poeple do but i was watching CNN today and all they could talk about was how the judge talked about the suspects family and they shot that down saying how could he. Most of the time the family has nothing to do with it. We always hear we never saw any signs and didnt see this coming from family and friends. Poeple who do this type of stuff should be punished but we also have to look at it from another point of view as well. Maybe they have a mental illness. The way society seems to be going is that poeple that commit unspeakable crimes who have a mental illness are evil and should be locked away or put to death. But yet if someone hurts themselves or even commits suicide then all of a sudden everyone starts talking and saying things like poor person they need help but had no where to turn we need more resources for poeple who have a mental illness. We cannt help one person and punishor forget about others we need to all WAKE UP. "

It really amazes me when the finger is pointed at the upbringing of a person, where the person that should be held accountable for their actions is the person who did the crime. Don't get me wrong but as a person grows they witness many things in their lives, some experience daily shootings in their neighborhood, drug deals, violence etc. It is easy to blame Mental Health, T.V, Games, Etc.  
We as parents raise our children the best way possible, teaching manners etc. I still can't believe all the things my children tell me in regards to the bullying, drugs in the schools as well as underage drinking etc.  
Is it a lack of education? Cracks in the system? It is hard to put a finger on just one reason why. I wish I had an answer to all the questions, as a parent I will continue to speak to our children and Pray for a Wake Up Call for the ones who need it.

So in other words since no one will do anything about it if someone sees monsters or whatever they see and they commit a crime we all just say ahh that person is crazy throw them in jail. Thats the problem with the world everyone tosses problems aside and expects someone else to do something about it. Yes we cannt force poeple to take there meds if they need them and like i said in my original post they should be punished. But they also need to be helped thereare tons of poeple out there thatlive with mental illness and some had to hit rock bottom before they picked themselves up and got help. Our society needs to be more open and accepting of poeple like that instead of scred or think they have something we can catch. Until all of us as poeple stand up and say enough is enough there will be more and more stuff like this in news.

SnowBirds said "Like we "helped" Vince Li? There are some that are beyond help, and the only way their 'meds' will help them from commiting another crime is if they take them! Unfortunately, there is NO system, or help, that is capable of forcing someone with a mental illness to do so. And until there is accountability for their actions, they should be treated like any other criminal. Period! "

The Vincent Li incident was indeed a tragedy, an innocent life taken away to soon by a person who "Heard Voices", After being found Not Criminally Responsible for his actions Vincent Li will be walking a free man because he has been responding well to Meds. Now if he was held responsible for his actions it would ruffle the feathers of groups who feel it is inhuman to punish a person who has a Mental Health Issue.  
To me there are way to many wholes in our Health Care System as well as our Justice System. Until all the issues are addressed many more innocent lives will be lost.  
In my years of experience as a Police Officer I have had to deal with numerous issues, I have seen the best as well as the worse of people.  
People experiencing a mental illness is very hard to explain, it takes years of learning to understand the actions of someone suffering a Mental Illness.  
 

So you are saying people like Vince Li and the like should just be medicated and set free?  
 
What we need is a system that keeps them locked up if they commit crimes against others, and those we can help before that time, absolutely, help them. But until we have some type of system that makes these people accountable or can regulate their medications (force them to adhere if need be) then we will continue to see the atrocities we see every day!

This guy didn't have any sort of a mental illness. He's a racist, plain and simple. Despite how some of the right wing media in the states is trying to spin this, saying it's an attack on religion, this was a racial attack. Listen to the actual sound bites coming from the area.  
 
And racial hatred isn't an illness, or a disease, or whatever else you wanna call it. It's not a default setting, it's learned.

I worked in Corrections for almost twenty years befor hanging up my uniform, and am well acquainted with the issues regarding the holes in the system...  
As I just said though, until there is some type of system that is accountable to all, and holds others accountable as well, the system we have is the one we have to deal with!  
Setting Vince Li free because he is responding well to his medications does NOT guarantee he will continue taking them! He was on medications prior to the atrocity he commited, and after quitting taking them, he took an innocent life, and affected the lives of many others... He should NEVER be set free!  
 
Edited by SnowBirds, 2015-06-19 15:39:44

Couldn't agree more!  
 
Well said!

Sfox said "So in other words since no one will do anything about it if someone sees monsters or whatever they see and they commit a crime we all just say ahh that person is crazy throw them in jail. Thats the problem with the world everyone tosses problems aside and expects someone else to do something about it. Yes we cannt force poeple to take there meds if they need them and like i said in my original post they should be punished. But they also need to be helped thereare tons of poeple out there thatlive with mental illness and some had to hit rock bottom before they picked themselves up and got help. Our society needs to be more open and accepting of poeple like that instead of scred or think they have something we can catch. Until all of us as poeple stand up and say enough is enough there will be more and more stuff like this in news. "

Our Society does need to be open and accepting people with a Mental Health Issue instead of turning a blind eye. I have seen many people experiencing a Mental Health Issue that have been turned away at hospitals, or given prescriptions. Many people suffering one form of Mental Health or another seem to be falling through the cracks way to many times.  
Sometimes medications do not fix the problem these people our suffering.

I'm not saying medicate them and set them free they still need to pay for there actions. But if medication is working we can still monitor them in a setting where they are being watched. And yes we may not be able to force them to take there pills but if they have commited a crime and the meds are working and they are stable they can be put in places like group homes where trained professionals can monitor and report any changes.

Sfox said "I'm not saying medicate them and set them free they still need to pay for there actions. But if medication is working we can still monitor them in a setting where they are being watched. And yes we may not be able to force them to take there pills but if they have commited a crime and the meds are working and they are stable they can be put in places like group homes where trained professionals can monitor and report any changes. "

I can understand what you are saying, what doesn't make sense to me is why close places like the Brandon Mental Health facility, alot of the people who resided there as patients are either in group homes or wandering the streets.  
It is like taking one step forward and two or three steps back.

This thread is about hate and racism. Stop highjacking the thread by interjecting Vince Li into the argument. It has NOTHING to do with him or mental illness.  
 
Dylann Roof hates blacks - period. He even said it in when he started shooting. "He reloaded five different times and told a survivor, "I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country - and you have to go."  
 
He had no delusions, and was on on bond in connection with recent arrests on drug and trespassing charges. He was also KNOWN as a racist. There are pictures being circulated of him wearing a jacket with the apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia flags on them.  
 
Racism is a learned behaviour, and racism is still rampant, especially in the southern states. Hatred + easy access to guns is not a good combo (daddy bought him a gun for his 21st birthday).  
 
With the increasing racial tension we see in the states, this should come as no surprise. Brace yourself for more to come.  
 
 
 

Is he a cowardly racist? absolutely  
Is he a cowardly racists with mental health issues? most likely  
Should this matter much? No. This was deliberate and planned. Capital punishment has a place in my opinion.

While he is definitely a hateful racist, it's pretty clear by looking at him that he's also some kind of sociopath psycho. Te look in his eyes reminds me of Charles Manson!

If this guy is mentally ill, I haven't heard anyone present evidence of it. I suppose you could say that anyone who allows so much hatred to build inside of themself, that they deliberately go out and kill nine people who have never harmed them in anyway and basically throw their own life away in the process, must be mentally ill. I'm not sure that the court will see it that way though.  
 
In the case of Vince Li, he was declared mentally ill after a psychiatric examination. We pretty much have to accept that determination.  
 
I wouldn't go so far as to call Roof a terrorist, unless it can be proven that he was carrying out the orders of some domestic terrorist group. It seems ironic to me that the same people who want to call him a terrorist are the same people who are very reluctant to call anyone who joins or commits a violent attack in the name of ISIS a terrorist. They always try to claim that that person is just a "lone wolf", some kind of disenfranchised loser, even after the attacker announces their affiliation/allegiance to ISIS.  
 
This guy is a white supremacist and obviously identifies with that ideology. He even had the old flag of apartheid South Africa and the old flag of white run Rhodesia sewn on his jacket. It's kind of surprising that he didn't have the KKK flag on his jacket too. I haven't heard any evidence that he was acting on behalf of, or in co-ordination with, any of the white supremacist groups. One thing is for sure though, the guy is pure evil. I mean, to be welcomed in and to sit with the congregation for forty five minutes and then pull a gun and start killing them. Hopefully, he'll get what he deserves.  
 
Edited by Triplethreat, 2015-06-19 19:44:49

on-second-thought said "This thread is about hate and racism. Stop highjacking the thread by interjecting Vince Li into the argument. It has NOTHING to do with him or mental illness.     Dylann Roof hates blacks - period. He even said it in when he started shooting. "He reloaded five different times and told a survivor, "I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country - and you have to go."     He had no delusions, and was on on bond in connection with recent arrests on drug and trespassing charges. He was also KNOWN as a racist. There are pictures being circulated of him wearing a jacket with the apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia flags on them.     Racism is a learned behaviour, and racism is still rampant, especially in the southern states. Hatred + easy access to guns is not a good combo (daddy bought him a gun for his 21st birthday).     With the increasing racial tension we see in the states, this should come as no surprise. Brace yourself for more to come.         "

Under his own admission the accused Dylann ROOF confessed to the Killings. It was pre-meditated,  
He chose this specific Church for a reason, It was one of the oldest African American Church in the South, It had ties to the "Underground Railroad", He sat with people as they prayed, He took the lives of 6 woman and 3 Men, all had deep ties to the church, four were Rev.'s.  
He has been planning this for 6 months, it wasn't just done on a spur of the moment, it was pre-meditated plain and simple.  
He made a brief appearance on video today in court, his next court date is October. He may decide to end his life, or his life may be taken inside the jail, especial knowing he is racist.  
My thoughts and prayers go out to all affected by this senseless act of violence.

CommonTater said "Is he a cowardly racist? absolutely   Is he a cowardly racists with mental health issues? most likely   Should this matter much? No. This was deliberate and planned. Capital punishment has a place in my opinion. "

Unfortunately if there is a chance of a Mental Illness then an assessment will be conducted, if he is found to be fine he will stand trial for his crimes, but just remember if he fails his evaluation he maybe found not criminally responsible then sent to a Mental Institution where in a few years he will be walking free.  
The overall pictures is, that the family and friends of the ones lost will be mourning the longest, they will also come together for each other.