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Did Harper know ?

Did Harper know ?

standard standard h8r
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 413

standard standard h8r
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 413

Did Harper know ?
8/15/2015 at 2:14 PM

Stephen Harper's story about who knew about Nigel Wright's payment to Mike Duffy has changed several times over the last while.

Originally he said that Wright acted alone and nobody inside the PMO knew anything about it. Now the email trail is saying something different.

Harper said that Wright tendered his resignation and it was accepted. Later, Harper said that Wright was fired.

Now PMSH is saying that some senior staffers may have known, but denies that he had any knowledge.

What do you think ? Did Stephen Harper know that Nigel Wright wrote a cheque to pay for the expenses that Duffy repaid ?

Edited by standard standard h8r, 2015-08-15 14:14:27
Michelle Budiwski

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8121

Michelle Budiwski
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8121

of course
8/15/2015 at 3:16 PM

Of course he knew, maybe not all of the details but I'd bet my next paycheck that he knew and authorized whatever it took to make it go away and that Wright is doing well having taken one for the team.

That being said, do I think less of the Conservatives? Not at all, any other party would have tried damage control techniques too.

Unfortunately the only way to know who to trust is to never trust anyone.
JR
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1886

JR
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1886

...
8/15/2015 at 3:45 PM

The problem with this whole scenario is that no matter who knew, the conservative party used government resources and staff, gave directions to a supposedly independent Senate and auditing firm and lied about it all to the public. This was all done to protect the party - not to do damage control for the government or betterment of the country.

Had they just taken the immediate political fallout and cut Duffy loose, admitted to the issue and told the truth, they would be in much better shape politically today then they are.

Then again, since when does a politician tell the truth? Of course Harper knew.
Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Yeah, he knew
8/15/2015 at 5:09 PM

but he needed to cover his rear. I wonder if the whole truth will ever come out? Duffy is a tricky dicky himself.
braid
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5434

braid
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 5434

well
8/15/2015 at 5:17 PM

Of course he knew. It's a case of CYA...
Michelle Budiwski

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8121

Michelle Budiwski
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8121

My favorite
8/15/2015 at 5:55 PM

Is Duffy's whole tactic that he was 'strong armed' into letting the conservatives pay back what he stole.

I can just picture him...

"No, No please don't make me take your money to avoid continued scandal, I will pay it back myself... please don't make me...."

These lawyers must laugh themselves all the way to the bank.
Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Can someone explain
8/15/2015 at 7:23 PM

*Edit (this was supposed to go under the topic "did Harper know" but for some reason ended up as a new thread, and my device doesn't copy and paste, so I'll just leave it.)

Not sure what the issue is.

Mike Duffy made inappropriate claims on his own..

Conservative staffers and Nigel wright demanded he pay the $90,000.

Mike Duffy says up yours, the rules on residency weren't very clear (which they weren't as I understand) I don't have that kind money he says.

Nigel wright, (who by the way had never, not once, ever made an expense claim for anything, being that before his appointment as chief of staff made a 7 figure income working for a big corporation, and felt that a person shouldn't make taxpayers foot a bill of they have the means to pay for something themselves.

So he steps forwards and writes a $90,000 cheque, OF HIS OWN MONEY, to Mike Duffy, as a gift, so that Mike Duffy can pay back tax payers, and therefore settle the issue.

Let's get this clear, Nigel Wright paid back the money to taxpayers, because he had the means to do so, and because he's a man of principle. And didn't want the entire conservative party dragged into something and tarnished over one bad senator who acted on his own.

And the actual job description of chief of staff is to be the gate keeper, he decides what the PM needs to know and what he doesn't, its his job to protect the PM, even if it means withholding information if it means buffering him from a potential scandal. If he didn't tell the PM about the payment, it means he did his job.

Even if, hypothetically, Stephen Harper knew what was going on, what's the big deal, it was a internal issue, got solved internally, no taxpayer money was used to pay back the $90,000, so explain to me..

What's the issue?

Edited by Enfyre, 2015-08-15 19:26:58
micro
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 89

micro
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 89

the issue
8/15/2015 at 10:06 PM

is that when folks take positions of trust ...they must always be SEEN to do the right thing. Just doing it alone is not sufficient. ..it must always be transparent for trust in the office to be maintained. Yes, it was never public dough,,but the slippery slope is clearly evident.. cover this up now, something else later. And yes, not a doubt that Mr. Harper was amply aware. They are of course trying for plausible deniability.
Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Ya
8/15/2015 at 10:46 PM

I understand the need for transparency, but all parties have "behind closed doors" meetings, as they call them. A lot of issues are resolved discretely all the time, its not uncommon to hear about a sudden resignation of someone in politics with no explanation, or an MP going as an independent or crossing the floor without much elaboration, and nobody makes much fuss about the lack of transparency about it all.

Do we really need to know about every little minor issue? Is it expected that politicians organize a press release about every little up and down that occurs? Cause that would be a waste of tax dollars IMO.

But the bigger question now is how exactly is this Bribery? What a complete Farce this has become.
Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5039

Abbysmum
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 5039

Well
8/15/2015 at 11:19 PM

If you think Mr, Wright gave a $90,000 cheque to Mr. Duffy out of the goodness of his heart, I have a bridge to sell you...

The larger issue here is complex, and it involves more than "back room deals". You could fundamentally argue that any governmental misdeed was simply a "back room deal" , but we know that's not true.
Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Well
8/15/2015 at 11:50 PM

Nigel Wrights net worth is estimated to be at least 25 million dollars.

He has been heavily involved and passionate with the conservative party, in its past names and forms since his days in college.

Somebody that devoted to a political party and with that much money, how is it hard to believe that he gave the money as an honest good deed?

To put it in perspective, somebody with $25,000,000 giving $90,000 away is the same as somebody with $25,000 giving away $90. Or somebody with $2500 in the bank giving away $9.

To Nigel Wright, $90,000 is chump change.

Johnbisonbear
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 4183

Johnbisonbear

Joined: Mar 2010

Posts: 4183

So basically

8/16/2015 at 7:58 AM

Enfyre said "Nigel Wrights net worth is estimated to be at least 25 million dollars.

He has been heavily involved and passionate with the conservative party, in its past names and forms since his days in college.

Somebody that devoted to a political party and with that much money, how is it hard to believe that he gave the money as an honest good deed?

To put it in perspective, somebody with $25,000,000 giving $90,000 away is the same as somebody with $25,000 giving away $90. Or somebody with $2500 in the bank giving away $9.

To Nigel Wright, $90,000 is chump change.

"

you are saying Nigel gave the money to try and smooth things over for the Conservative party and Harper?

Didn't work out too good did it?

Should have been Duffy paying it back, pretty sure that some payment plan could be drawn up for him. After all the Feds can set up a payment plan for ordinary citizens that owe back taxes don't they

micro
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 89

micro
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 89

the same principle
8/16/2015 at 9:27 AM

can be seen in our court system. We do not allow people to pay others to 'do the time' for them. They must pay the piper themselves. It is part of the acknowledgement of the misdeed and therefore is part of the promise to not repeat the deed. If we allow others to pay the price , there is no expectation that the deed will not go unrepeated. Restitution is a huge part of justice. And in reply to Enfyre ..for sure I get your cynicism towards the other parties and the whole political system (and share such with you) I wonder if governments are like underwear. Sometimes need to be changed.(for the same reason)

Edited by micro, 2015-08-16 09:33:34
Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

Enfyre
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 383

.
8/16/2015 at 10:10 AM

Well since the money was a gift, it was now Duffy's money. Technically, he could have said up yours again, and left to Vegas, and nobody would be able to do anything about it. But he used his newfound money to pay back taxpayer's. So in that sort of sence, Duffy did pay back the money out of his own pocket.

Of course it didn't all work out, people got word of the transaction, over reacted, Nigel lost his position and says he regrets giving the money, hard lesson that no good deed goes unpunished.

I know the ideal scenario would have been Duffy paying the money with his own paycheck, but money is money, and as long as it was obtained legally, then it doesn't really matter where it originates.

And to the conservative staffers who where privy to the Duffy situation, in their minds, he was just a guy who made a mistake in his residency expence claims, it wasn't like he was kicking puppies or something.
ZEEKE
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35

ZEEKE
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 35

politics and common sense ???
8/16/2015 at 11:10 AM

Agree Enfyre , unfortunately common sense and politics don't seem to mix .
Like the 21 million dollar audit that found the top five alleged false claims were by Liberal senators but we hardly heard a peep from the mainstream media . Only the Conservative bashing by CBC .
I guess since there are no more Liberal senators only Senators who are Liberal they're exempt from scrutiny.
WestWind
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 76

WestWind
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 76

mmmm
8/16/2015 at 1:00 PM

Not sure what is more unsettling - the attitude that this is just business as usual on the part of the government or the acceptance by some voters that it's OK. What happened to personal integrity, character and just plain transparency? To blame the liberal media aka the CBC for the bad publicity is rather stretching it. I've been following this in a lot of the print and TV media and most of the stories are the same. In other words, they are reporting on Duffy's trial and Mr. Wright's emails. Even the national newspapers who supported the Harper government are questioning these actions. The money may be chump change to Mr. Wright but the whole situation was handled in a manner that does make you question "why did he really do it"? Guess we can draw our own conclusions when the trial is over.
Opinionated
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2854

Opinionated
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2854

agree Westwind
8/16/2015 at 2:16 PM

Also, it's not just about the money Nigel have Duffy, it's about the fact that their appears to have been an attempted coverup through the PMO, including misleading the public and interfering with the audit. Those things are big deals and the voting public should care that these things were done by Harper's closest advisors.

I also agree that this isn't something only being covered by the CBC. ALL of the news agencies are reporting this, and have been all along.

Honestly, I think some people are trying to make it seem like it's not a big deal, and that CBC is making too much of it, simply because it IS a big deal and voters know it.
Doug
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6888

Doug
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 6888

probably
8/16/2015 at 4:12 PM

I think so. The Senate though is the Libs issue. Harper from day one wanted it gone or reformed.

The empty seats sitting there now Harper could have but did not fill before this election easy called.

The three parties position on the senate are clear.

I can not to this day understand why mulcair seriously thinks he can get rid of the senate.

The sooner he drops that pipe dream the better his election chances will be. I say that because when a main election plank is not realistic in the near and distant future it bleeds over to your other promises.
SJK
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4301

SJK
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4301

wouldn't it be nice
8/17/2015 at 1:08 PM

if the press would also follow the money on all these other senators?
http://www.thecanadianpress.com/english/online/OnlineFullStory.aspx?filename=DOR-MNN-CP.59a185f3a42e413fa4eb67c8676d0a1c.CPKEY2008111303&newsitemid=33540081&languageid=1

Wouldn't it be nice if the NDP would pay pack for the roughly 2.7 million they cheated the taxpayers out of for their "satellite offices".

Why is the press so quiet on these other issues, yet Duffy's $90,000 is such a big big deal???????

We haven't received one red cent back from the Liberals for adscam but lordy the sky is falling over Consevatives paying $$ back and to which Duffy under the current lack of rules in the senate would probably never have to pay back!

What a screwed up world we live in!