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Marijuana: Liberal vs NDP and Conservative


  •  chewk
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 42
     chewk
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 42
    Marijuana: Liberal vs NDP and Conservative 
    8/20/2015 at 11:21 PM

    Ive kinda talked about this with a few friends and we are all on the same page with this. So i thought E brandon would be a perfect spot for this. People love to debate on this here.  
     
    Ok so my 1st question is. If Justin Trudeau were to win the election what i want to know is what are his plans for marijuana to be sold and smoked legally. Where does this money go to? Use it towards upgrading our hospitals, Highways or whatever else is on the list of things to be done.  
     
    Just doing quick math and what i have looked up when it comes to what Canada could make from legally selling marijuana would be around 20-30 million per year at least. Plus it would generate jobs and a lot of jobs at that. It would then take the illegal stuff off of the streets which would lessen the crime rate and the chances of a kid or adult buying a laced substance would be minimal no none.  
     
    I cant find any reason why this is a bad idea. I have tried to come up with reasons why selling or legalizing it is a bad idea. If anyone has something to say throw it out here and lets discuss it.  
     
    One of the things i could think of is. One of your kids can legally go buy it now. First of all i would make it that you have to be 18 to buy it legally. You could only buy so much of it at a time. There would be a system in place where once you have bought a certain amount you couldnt buy anymore.  
     
    Another problem that might come up is. Now my son or daughter can go buy it whenever they want?  
     
    Well ya sure but they could also go buy it down a back alley from some random and who knows whats in it. Or whatever else may happen here. Wouldnt you rather them buy it from a store where its grown properly and regulated to be a certain potency? I know i would.  
     
    I dont smoke dope my self so before anyone jumps on my back i dont sell it either. I just find so many reasons why Canada as a whole should benefit from this. Never mind the people that smoke it know that it helps out. With cancer and arthritis. Which i have seen and heard it does wonders for.

    Edited by admin, 2015-08-21 06:46:50. Reason: Change of title to be more specific of topic

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  •  Orion's-Belt
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 579
     Orion's-Belt
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 579
    Testing  
    8/21/2015 at 5:27 AM
    Everything you said is fine and dandy.  
     
    -But what about driving under the influence.  
    -testing for that( costly equipment )  
    -What about costs to our healthcare for people Smoking it getting sick from the tars and resins.  
    -who's gunna pay for treatments.  
    -more readily available to children. ( you can say it is now. But you sure see a lot of REALLY young kids smoking cigarettes these days. Because it's so easy to get them )  
    - putting the message out there to the youth that drugs we outlawed for years are acceptable. (Could lead to thinking other drugs are acceptable)  
     
    We have sat at the lunch table and discussed this lots as well  
    At my job  
     
    Voting liberal is a joke. There platform sucks and there leader is a young pup fed soley from a silver spoon and doesn't know the first thing about what hard working lower income Canadians need  
     
    My two cents  
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  •  Black Star
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 377
     Black Star
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 377
    Gateway drug 
    8/21/2015 at 7:28 AM
    Pot is a gateway drug that commonly leads to use of harder drugs. Dependany and addiction are as high as alcohol. But alcohol is only a gateway to dependant and addiction not into harder alcohol.  
    With harder drugs crime and violent crime rise. Violent crime does rise with alcohol but not at same rate. I see no advantage in legalization of Marijuana other than gets it out of the band k alley into a store and increasing tax collection.
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  •  Johnbisonbear
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 4183
     Johnbisonbear
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 4183
    This is where I have 
    8/21/2015 at 7:36 AM
    a problem with Trudeau. To make M legal to smoke anywhere? Is that his plan?  
     
    I can barely stand seeing and listening to drunks on the street, will I have to put up with stoners?
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  •  GuyRichards
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 176
     GuyRichards
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 176
    MJ 
    8/21/2015 at 7:44 AM
      
    Black Star said "Pot is a gateway drug that commonly leads to use of harder drugs. Dependany and addiction are as high as alcohol. But alcohol is only a gateway to dependant and addiction not into harder alcohol.  
    With harder drugs crime and violent crime rise. Violent crime does rise with alcohol but not at same rate. I see no advantage in legalization of Marijuana other than gets it out of the band k alley into a store and increasing tax collection. "

    Ah the old marijuana is a gateway drug theroy... The hypothesis is that the use of soft drugs like cannabis leads to the use of harder drugs via a sequence of stages. This is based on the observation that many people who use cocaine or heroin have previously used cannabis, and most have used alcohol or tobacco. Then the progression continues from there to other drugs like cocaine or heroin. Some research supports that cannabis use predicts a significantly higher risk for subsequent use of "harder" illicit drugs, while other research does not. Some research even has found alcohol represented the "gateway" drug, leading to the use of tobacco, marijuana, and other illicit substances. MJ is no more a gateway drug then other legal stuff already present.  
     
    As for saying marijuana is addicting and people become as dependent to it as alcohol or tobacco. Now that one is just too funny. No where close to being true.
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  •  GuyRichards
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 176
     GuyRichards
    Joined: Jun 2015
    Posts: 176
    Marijuana 
    8/21/2015 at 7:48 AM
      
    Johnbisonbear said "a problem with Trudeau. To make M legal to smoke anywhere? Is that his plan?  
     
    I can barely stand seeing and listening to drunks on the street, will I have to put up with stoners? "

    Ever been to places like Amsterdam where MJ is legal?? People aren't out getting blazed and passing out in the street. In fact the people using cannabis are a lot better behaved in general then the people who use alcohol legally. Go figure.
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  •  Wam22
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 253
     Wam22
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 253
    Marijuana 
    8/21/2015 at 8:12 AM
    I can see why people are against it, but i personally am all for it. Research other countries and states with legalized marijuana, research both sides of the marijuana debate before having an opinion. Alcohol is a dangerous substance that increases hospitals costs, has taken more lives than marijuana and can be said to be a "gateway" to other substances. Unfortunately it's still taboo in Canada to smoke marijuana(a plant that's been proven to medically help many with diseases) but it is not taboo to get wasted on alcohol that has no properties to help  
    With any disease besides causing them. I personally do not smoke, but have seen it help people with cancer, ms and herniated discs in backs. Just learn all the pros and cons before shutting it down.
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  •  Johnbisonbear
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 4183
     Johnbisonbear
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 4183
    No I haven't 
    8/21/2015 at 8:16 AM
      
    GuyR said "
      
    Johnbisonbear said "a problem with Trudeau. To make M legal to smoke anywhere? Is that his plan?  
     
    I can barely stand seeing and listening to drunks on the street, will I have to put up with stoners? "

    Ever been to places like Amsterdam where MJ is legal?? People aren't out getting blazed and passing out in the street. In fact the people using cannabis are a lot better behaved in general then the people who use alcohol legally. Go figure. "

    but I see lots of people who drink to excess even though they don't work to pay for their habits and I don't need to see people who are stoned out of their gourds in Brandon.  
     
    It makes me laugh when I see "spokes people" for the legalize M squad on TV, the slurred speech, the vacant looks...
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  •  bubbles89
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 215
     bubbles89
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 215
    Go for it... 
    8/21/2015 at 8:50 AM
    I have no problem with the legalization of marijuana as long as it is regulated, used for it's intended purpose ( medical) and people are respectful about it. Personally, I can't stand the smell of that stuff!!!
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  •  Enfyre
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 383
     Enfyre
    Joined: May 2012
    Posts: 383
    Med mj 
    8/21/2015 at 8:57 AM
    There is already medical marijuana available to patients, so that's not really an issue.  
     
    Personally, why not just legalize it for out of public use, so people who want to waste away their lives stoned on some dumb plant can do that, and stay out of normal peoples way.
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  •  ash5555
    Joined: Jul 2009
    Posts: 232
     ash5555
    Joined: Jul 2009
    Posts: 232
    MJ 
    8/21/2015 at 9:06 AM
    I personally think marijuana should be legalized, at a minimum decriminalized.  
    However, at the same time I don't think it's a huge priority - Liberals running a good portion of their platform on this is ridiculous - there are more important matters at hand. I also think that if it were to be legalized, it would be taxed to death as well.  
     
    also - marijuana is not a gateway drug. that is a joke.  
    alcohol is a gateway substance - and a killer.
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  •  WestWind
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 76
     WestWind
    Joined: Aug 2012
    Posts: 76
    make it legal 
    8/21/2015 at 9:12 AM
    Legalize marijuana. It is already easier for our young people to buy it on the street then it is for them to purchase cigarettes or alcohol. A "gateway drug?" Only because the same scum that sell our kids marijuana also have "bigger and better" things to sell them down the road when they gain their trust. The war on drugs has been a real costly battle to governments and has made very little gains in the last 50 years. Legalizing marijuana could take away a large part of the revenue that is now going to gangs and allow law enforcement resources to be used elsewhere. More research is needed on the medical aspects of this plant but very few governments are willing to even allow it. It is time to change our attitude. As for dealing with the "stoners", a lot people I know who work in a bar would much rather deal with a stoner then an angry drunk. An annoying stoner just wants another bag of munchies while some drunks just want to fight.
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  •  KenJ
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 132
     KenJ
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 132
    I love this 
    8/21/2015 at 10:05 AM
    To anyone who's ever smoked pot - were you at a party when you tried it the first time? Had you already imbibed a couple of beers or shots?  
     
    I bet many if not most of you will answer yes. In fact I believe there was a study done showing that a VERY high percentage of pot users took their first toke when they were drunk on alcohol.  
     
    So what is the real gateway drug? Yep - the one that kills thousands of people a year and causes nice people to fly into rages and families to disintegrate. The one that causes higher rates of spousal and child abuse. The one that can turn a normal, hard-working person into a drooling, pissing-in-their-pants mess. The one that's not only readily available, but here in Manitoba is sold to us by our own government. Chew on that.  
     
    Alcohol is the gateway drug, if there is such a thing. And most of us start sneaking our kids a sip of beer before they can even drive. How ANYONE can defend alcohol and still say pot should be illegal is a mystery to me.  
     
    Legal pot means less jail time served by otherwise law-abiding citizens. All you conservatives should appreciate not having to pay for someone's meals for 5 years just cause they sold a little weed. Conservatives should also appreciate that legal pot generates MILLIONS in revenue - look at Colorado's financial statements - it has been a great success financially and socially.  
     
    Pot has been shown to greatly help people with depression, anxiety, glaucoma, cancer, and a host of other diseases and ailments - our government can grow it and give it to sick people at almost no cost compared to buying pills from giant pharmaceutical companies.  
     
    And to anyone who argues that legal pot will cause higher medical costs due to complications from smoking, you obviously have never heard of things like vaporizers or even brownies. Yes, you can ingest or inhale pot safely. People have been doing it for hundreds of years.
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  •  Golf'n'fish
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 12
     Golf'n'fish
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 12
    Marijuana  
    8/21/2015 at 10:52 AM
    I am in support of legalizing Marijuana, I am not a smoker but have no problem with those that do. I agree that ETOH use is much worse. The legal age needs to be at least 21 and should be higher. Marijuana has horrible effects on young growing brains and is directly linked with mental health. Not only can it cause depression, anxiety and psychosis (in few people, obviously not everyone), if you have any kind of mental health problem (especially schizophrenia, Bi-polar Disorder, or Anxiety Disorders) it can intensify the effects of that disorder and could spiral even those medicated into an acute mental breakdown. I know the marijuana supporters will dispute this, and thats fine. I work in this field and have seen first hand the effects marijuana can have on young susceptible brains. Please watch this documentary by David Suzuki on the nature of things.  
     
    http://www.cbc.ca/natureofthings/episodes/the-downside-of-high  
     
    Marijuana can be used for good, but like any drug there is significant risks that come from taking it, especially with youth.
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  •  B.K.
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 40
     B.K.
    Joined: Aug 2009
    Posts: 40
    KenJ 
    8/21/2015 at 10:54 AM
    Well said!!  
    It always makes me laugh when I hear someone say it's a gateway drug....  
    Alcohol is far worse and yet it's legal.
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  •  Jaxon
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 409
     Jaxon
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 409
    by no means am i an expert 
    8/21/2015 at 11:05 AM
    on marijuana or its pros and cons but I have seen reports that the effects on the body are similar to smoking cigarettes. I have seen mouths that have no gums because of it. So I guess where im going with this is....will we have increased health care costs with the legalization of it? And I think we all know that our health care system is pushed beyond its limits at this point.  
     
    Regardless, Im not a fan of the legalization of this drug for everyday use.
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  •  CommonTater
    Joined: This month
    Posts: 784
     CommonTater
    Joined: This month
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    Please link 
    8/21/2015 at 11:09 AM
      
    Jaxon said "on marijuana or its pros and cons but I have seen reports that the effects on the body are similar to smoking cigarettes. I have seen mouths that have no gums because of it. So I guess where im going with this is....will we have increased health care costs with the legalization of it? And I think we all know that our health care system is pushed beyond its limits at this point.  
     
    Regardless, Im not a fan of the legalization of this drug for everyday use. "

    I am not saying you are right or wrong but can you share where you have seen mouths with no gums where the cause of that has been solely linked to smoking marijuana?
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  •  KJ2013
    Joined: Mar 2011
    Posts: 269
     KJ2013
    Joined: Mar 2011
    Posts: 269
    . 
    8/21/2015 at 11:15 AM
    I can see how it can be considered a gateway drug but it can be argued that you have to have an addictive personality in the first place so I don't know if the gateway drug point is 100% valid.  
    I have the same stance for the casino. People argue that it will cause some to become addicted to gambling but those are people who will go to a VLT and become addicted that. People will find a way.  
    If it's done right I think legalization could be a good thing. If the government taxes it too much though you'll still be encouraging cheaper "back alley" versions from dealers.  
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  •  KenJ
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 132
     KenJ
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 132
    Jaxon 
    8/21/2015 at 11:15 AM
    Did you read my post? Marijuana doesn't have to be smoked. It can be ingested or inhaled as a vapour. Even then, if your concern is the effect of smoking on our health care system, why aren't more people pushing for the prohibition of tobacco cigarettes? People are dying every day and costing the system billions of dollars due to tobacco and alcohol - yet no one's pushing for their prohibition.  
     
    Some experts argue that legal pot would actually wind up costing taxpayers LESS in health care because it actually reduces prescription drug and alcohol use and abuse.  
     
    This is simple. Alcohol and tobacco are both deadly substances with no redeeming qualities. Pot is a proven-effective medicinal substance. Yet the first two are legal, and people go to jail for pot. How does that make ANY sense?  
     
    Prohibition does not work. All it does is drive normal people to criminal activity, and criminals to violent activity - once again, this has all been studied and proven.  
     
    If you want pot to stay illegal, you'd better put your money where your mouth is and give up your beer and smokes too.
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  •  BrandonBoy8880
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 25
     BrandonBoy8880
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 25
     
    8/21/2015 at 11:41 AM
     
     
    Edited by BrandonBoy8880, 2015-08-21 11:42:48
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  •  BrandonBoy8880
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 25
     BrandonBoy8880
    Joined: Nov 2012
    Posts: 25
    You think you're normal? 
    8/21/2015 at 11:44 AM
      
    Enfyre said "There is already medical marijuana available to patients, so that's not really an issue.  
     
    Personally, why not just legalize it for out of public use, so people who want to waste away their lives stoned on some dumb plant can do that, and stay out of normal peoples way. "

    Why would you consider non-users to be "normal people"? To me it sounds like you think that marijuana users are abnormal, dumb, and can't function in our society: personally it sounds like an uneducated comment. Many professionals use marijuana and easily function in the day to day. Realistically the amount of marijuana users has increased steadily in Canada over the past few years. Who knows, one day in the near future all of us "stoners" might be considered the norm and we will be wanting the non-users, like Enfyre, to stay out of our way! Great topic for discussion, don't let the so called "normal people" influence your decision!
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  •  pudds
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 247
     pudds
    Joined: Jun 2010
    Posts: 247
    . 
    8/21/2015 at 11:48 AM
    These are all issues that exist now, without legalization. In theory, the money made from taxation could be put towards improving these problem.  
     
    As for the "more readily available to children" claim, I take quite a bit of issue with that statement. IF marijuana were to be legalized, it would be in a similar manner to cigarettes and alcohol, ie: tightly controlled. Could young kids get someone to buy for them while underage? Of course. But at least that's a barrier - drug dealers don't ask for ID at all as far as I know.
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  •  CRP
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 140
     CRP
    Joined: Oct 2014
    Posts: 140
     
    8/21/2015 at 11:59 AM
    Everyone has their own addictions but I've never seen people get more butt-hurt over it than stoners. If pot is what is driving your election decisions, you aren't old enough to be voting, regardless of what your drivers license says.  
     
    We don't need legalization, we need decriminalization.
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  •  KenJ
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 132
     KenJ
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 132
    one last point 
    8/21/2015 at 12:06 PM
    Someone brought up driving earlier.  
     
    Of course we don't want people driving stoned. But you know what? There are a couple hundred LEGAL drugs that people can take and drive without the police being able to measure their intoxication level.  
     
    If I drink half a bottle of Nyquil cough medicine or take 5 Benadryl tablets and go out for a drive, I am just as dangerous as someone who ate a pot brownie in terms of intoxication. If the police pull me over and give me a Breathalyzer, I will blow clean. How is it any different?  
     
    Why are people using that as an argument against legal pot, but not worried about all the drivers out there abusing legal over the counter medications?  
     
    If anything, legalization will make detection systems more widely used and available to the police, so people will probably be LESS likely to drive stoned for fear of getting an impaired charge.  
     
    And CRP, people vote based on the party/leader that best represents their beliefs/interests. To say that anyone who votes based on something like marijuana is too stupid to vote is pretty short-sighted. I wonder how many people vote conservative simply because they like guns. It's no different.  
     
    I am a legalization advocate but I don't vote Liberal. Go figure.
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  •  gopherit
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 488
     gopherit
    Joined: Jun 2009
    Posts: 488
    kenJ 
    8/21/2015 at 12:26 PM
    I don't vote liberal either and I agree with all your posts. I don't smoke anything but have seriously considered eating brownies for health purposes. Drunks are a lot worse and WAY more annoying.
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  •  Jaxon
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 409
     Jaxon
    Joined: Mar 2014
    Posts: 409
    This one of the articles on the topic of gums 
    8/21/2015 at 12:37 PM
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7226969.stm  
     
    This scares me enough to not to use it, not to mention the articles on brain and lung impairments.  
     
    And as far as smoking goes. I think it should not be done either. But its seems a lot harder to take away a right. Jus think of how much healthier we would be plus the household would have a lot more money in their pockets.  
     
    Again, im no expert!
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  •  Spaghetti Monster
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 1909
     Spaghetti Monster
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 1909
    I would like to..... 
    8/21/2015 at 12:43 PM
    ......point out that I think the OP has vastly underestimated the tax revenue. With a population of 5.3 million Colorado has generated 53 million in tax dollars in the first year. Simple math allows for a conservative estimate of 300 million if Canada were to legalize. Then there is the cost savings. In 2002 a Senate report pegged the annual costs at 300 to 500 million. Even if we take the low end of that report we are , conservatively, at 600 million in recovered and generated revenue a year. This represents .033 of total GDP, not insignificant.
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  •  CommonTater
    Joined: This month
    Posts: 784
     CommonTater
    Joined: This month
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    Jaxon 
    8/21/2015 at 12:44 PM
    Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that research before and will now take it into consideration to some degree. Cheers
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  •  belzebob
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 86
     belzebob
    Joined: Mar 2009
    Posts: 86
    pot discussion 
    8/21/2015 at 12:45 PM
    (puff....puff) pass.  
     
    chill out guys.....lol
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  •  Fishin Guy
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 6897
     Fishin Guy
    Joined: Dec 2005
    Posts: 6897
    ..... 
    8/21/2015 at 12:51 PM
      
    Jaxon said "http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7226969.stm  
     
    This scares me enough to not to use it, not to mention the articles on brain and lung impairments.  
     
    And as far as smoking goes. I think it should not be done either. But its seems a lot harder to take away a right. Jus think of how much healthier we would be plus the household would have a lot more money in their pockets.  
     
    Again, im no expert! "

    https://dental-oral-conditions.knoji.com/marijuana-myths-does-smoking-cause-periodontal-disease-or-tooth-decay/  
     
    This also has a good explanation regarding it. Also understand when people throw out the "OH MY GOD IT IS BAD FOR YOU" kool-aid that they always use the worst cases. I have a buddy with MS and according to that link from Jaxon a heavy user is anyone using more than 41 times a year. He smokes that much a month. Not one single cavity to date. He maintains brushing min twice a day along with flossing. What I didn't catch in that article was how often these people kept up on their oral hygiene.
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