Discussions

so the debate on the correct place to merge has finally been solved lol

That makes way too much sense. Let someone in? What an absurd thought? If I have been in line since Victoria Ave waiting in the long line everyone forms in the left lane.....Why would someone let in a person who drives right up on the right?  
 
Seriously though I am one that merges from the right. You can move so much more people taking turns than forming one giant line. Too bad nobody would realize this and get off the screw the other driver mentality.

One lane bridge can only move so many cars. Throughput is speed and distance between cars. Taking turns slows everything down. Tough to comprehend for some but a steady flow at 50 moves more cars than brake to let people in at 40. Two lanes twenty cars long taking turns is slower than one lane forty cars long. Want more cars to get over the bridge? Go faster and get closer together. Any kind of merge takes away from this. All that being said I use the right lane here and there. It is faster as I am butting in line essentially. My vehicle is big and ugly so people tend to let me in. Sorry.

Being an old-timer, I get into the left lane going northbound at about Victoria Avenue or earlier from the south. I don't mind letting the odd car in.  
 
I've been lucky enough fo most always get a wave or smile. The older I get, the more patient I become. If I get a zig-zagger that drives like an arse, I more apt to get my back up, but I'll always smile when we eventually meet again at 18th and Kirkcaldy at the lights.  
 
Good for the sign to finally go up. It's about time the Province noted this awkward stretch that causes bottlenecks. Too bad it wasn't put in place years ago.  
 
 
 
Edited by michelle, 2015-12-09 22:38:44

Clearly the city has decided to end the dispute over which way is the right way.  
I grew up driving in Winnipeg and zipper merging into a single lane from two lanes was always faster. I never understood why people didn't zipper merge here when I moved to Brandon.  
 
People also need to remember that lining up bumper to bumper in the left lane 6 blocks away from the bridge makes it really hard for the people turning off princess to get into the left lane. A lot of the time the people merging into the left lane at the bridge are the ones who turned off princess and couldn't get in because people wouldn't make room in the left lane.

as long as the centre line is not solid, you are free to change lanes when safe to do so. The solid line on 18th isn't till just before Pacific Ave. And that's where the must turn begins.

is what they call it. They have tried it in Winnipeg with success. That way both lanes can line up to go.

Pinkbutterflies said "Clearly the city has decided to end the dispute over which way is the right way.   I grew up driving in Winnipeg and zipper merging into a single lane from two lanes was always faster. I never understood why people didn't zipper merge here when I moved to Brandon.     People also need to remember that lining up bumper to bumper in the left lane 6 blocks away from the bridge makes it really hard for the people turning off princess to get into the left lane. A lot of the time the people merging into the left lane at the bridge are the ones who turned off princess and couldn't get in because people wouldn't make room in the left lane. "

18th Street is not the responsibility of the City of Brandon. It falls under the Provincial NDP Government as it is Highway #10. They maintain and are responsible for 18th Street with bridges, signage, light syncing, etc. Basically the Provincial Givernment looks after all and anything on this stretch of Highway #10 through the City.  
 
Victoria Avenue, Richmond Avenue, 1st Street, etc. also fall under the Provincial umbrella and the maintenance, syncing lights don't lie with the City of Brandon.  
 
Just clarifying that for newcomers that may not be aware.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by michelle, 2015-12-09 23:08:12

Maybe with a little more co-operation from drivers, with a sign reminding them of the need to merge and allowing merging, those that need to merge left will have less trouble doing so.

I'm not holding my breath.

He/she has it right. Zipper merge is a temporary solution for construction and other temporary lane closures. For the reasons Woody states - and has been debated here already - it doesn't actually work.  
 
The REAL solution (if the traffic gurus had a clue what they are doing here) would be to make northbound 2 lanes and southbound one lane. Lots of time to merge properly when going southbound, rather than within half a block of a traffic light. It's the distance from Rosser lights to the 'merge' that ultimately causes the problem, and is why zipper merging doesn't work here.

While sitting at the lights going north on 18th,take note of how long the light is green for east bound rosser traffic, with no traffic going thru.  
Shorten up the time cycle for rosser traffic and a lot more cars would move north on 18th !

Interesting that there's a sign there.  
 
A sign over rules whatever lines are painted on the road. Part of what comes with driving is scanning ahead for ongoing problems eg. police or tow trucks on the road etc. Just plan accordingly. So I fail to see why nobody knows at some point while driving on 18th st. north of Vic. , you have you to either get on the left lane before you over the bridge or you will have to go right on Pacific Ave.  
 
So it gets down to only in Brandon, MB where what is painted on the road trumps a stupid overhead sign. Ofcourse there it only took over 30 years for the government to figure out the Daily Bridge is classic screw up.  
 
Sorry, I essentially call 'zipping' as another forum of budging in most cases if one decides to race down on the right lane on 18th st.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by unbreakable1, 2015-12-10 06:49:12

I'm just wondering if you can legally make people take turns without have a source of signalling who's turn it is. If a person assumes they have a legal right to just pull into the line of traffic because the sign says "merge", at what point does the line of traffic have to respect the idea of merge, do you slow if the vehicle is ahead of you with it's blinker on, or is the slowing left to the discretion of the driver in the line of traffic.

If it's done properly, both sides are going at roughly the same speed so suddenly slowing down shouldn't be required.  
 
I've been saying for a while that zipper merge is the way to go. Glad the province agrees. It works well in so many other cities, no reason why Brandon can't learn it too.

is responsible for lights on Vic. why don't one of them drive east on Vic. and see that there is major problems with the lights between 10TH and 6th St. and why is there such a long delay at 9Th with the turning lane going south into Super store...THIS HAS TO BE THE LONGEST TURNING LIGHT IN THE CITY...yet while I sit there going east may see one car use it. There is no flow at all in that area!!!

In other cities and I have lived in many, the zipper merge is used when both lanes have no other choice than to continue in the direction they are going. Two lanes turning into one. That is not the case on 18th.  
 
Consider this one line 20 cars long or two lines 10 cars long taking equal turns. If you are in position 20 of the single line or position 10 of the twin line how exactly is that faster? Both situations you cross the bridge in position 20. Merging traffic never travels as quickly as single lane traffic. Perhaps close with good drivers but we are in Brandon so lets be realistic.  
 
The current situation is one lane 19 cars long and an empty right lane so of course you can go from position 20 to position 1, definitely faster. Two lanes equal length merging will take that option away.  
 
As dark man noted the light for rosser heading east is way longer than it needs to be. That would be the cheap and dirty solution is a longer light for 18th.  
 

Pretty simple!!!!Many cities: many bridges have two lanes one way in AM and two lanes the other way after the morning rush hour.A divider of red or green flashing lights [LEDS] and overhead traffic signals sequenced with the lights at Rosser and Princess. Is there ever a line up on the north side: lots of room to line up if it did occur. OK START THE RIP!!!!

This should have been happening ages ago. I've seen the line up start as far back as Canadian Tire. Crazy!  
 
People just need to realize there is a problem spot here and if we all share the road we will all get to where we are going. Zipper merge is the way to go!  
 
to me it is the same thing as leaving an event at the Keystone or Riverbank - don't people take turns and let others into the line to get out. Well, I know some people don't but most drivers are considerate so now we treat 18thNB the same. Looking forward to my next drive north.

The zipper merge is not meant to be faster. It is meant to be safer, and to reduce backups upstream from the merge point.  
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merge_(traffic)  
 
The late merge method has not been found to increase throughput (throughput is the number of vehicles that pass through a point in a given period of time). However, it considerably reduces queue ("backup") length (because drivers use the ending lane until its end) and reduces speed differences between the two lanes, increasing safety.[1]  
 

aBUFAmember said "He/she has it right. Zipper merge is a temporary solution for construction and other temporary lane closures. For the reasons Woody states - and has been debated here already - it doesn't actually work.     The REAL solution (if the traffic gurus had a clue what they are doing here) would be to make northbound 2 lanes and southbound one lane. Lots of time to merge properly when going southbound, rather than within half a block of a traffic light. It's the distance from Rosser lights to the 'merge' that ultimately causes the problem, and is why zipper merging doesn't work here. "

Actually, zipper merging is a common and USEFUL way to flow traffic. If everyone is travelling the same speed and taking turns one at a time, like a zipper, there won't be the constant start/stop and disruption of traffic flow. It DOES actually work.  
 
As for the traffic gurus not having a clue... did you go to school for 5+ years to become a civil engineer specializing in transportation?  
 
The whole reason they put the sign up is because 1st St is about to close and traffic is going to get nuts on 18th St. So they decided it's time to force people to do what they should have been doing all along, ZIPPER MERGING! In some big cities they even have specific road signs with a picture of a zipper and everyone knows they need to be taking turns, not speeding up and inching along denying people in the right hand lane from getting into the left lane. It's like people in Brandon think they are better than others because they got into the left lane early, so they shouldn't have to let others in. Never seen anything like it.

Some things mentions have been traffic flowing at a similar speed but given the fact that there are lights at Rosser and the merge lane could be considered sort of short merging will not happen with the efficiency of on a highway or where the merge lane has adequate lenght, there is also the idea that some of the traffic in the right lane may not be merging but making a right turn which throws an unknown into traffic flow.  
 
As mentioned before I usually take the right lane to go north, and never with the intention of actually merging.

Love the video  
I would like to see the camera footage as well and  
see how well people are cooperating.

most other larger cities have this types of merges all over the place, it is not rocket science. I merge from the right all the time, but I ask permission from the driver on the right with a left turn signal, and I don't barge in, but allow the other person to give way. then a thank you wave to acknowlegde them.  
 
and thanks to most drivers in brandon, I seldom have a problem, so cudos to those of you that are curteous.  
 
There are a few that will speed up to not allow you in but you get that in any city i guess.  
 
when it is backed up to Victoria and past if you are turning from vic from either direction onto north bound 18th you have to take the right lane. Now you have got what... 4 blocks.... to try and get into the left lane by merging left, so by extension your still hooped by those that refuse to let you in. whether at the merge area or by jamming your self in, in the previous 4 blocks.  
 
It is actually harder to try and get a spot in the left lane in the previous 4 blocks as all traffic is going at a crawl, there is never any space to squeeze in. Once you get the traffic flowing from the last lights at rosser, the traffic spaces out so now you can get in.  
 
doubling up to even out the 2 lanes and then intelligently merging will clear more traffic ....always.  
 
would love to see a city cop up there directing traffic a few times. I think everyone would catch on pretty quick.  
 

to clarify.I dont believe 1st street is going to close,but will be reduced to single lane traffic sharing one side of the bridge until construction is finished..cheers!

Zipper merging may work in other centres, but this is Brandon. How long did it take people to get used to the traffic circles? How many know the proper procedures for a lighted intersection with one set flashing red and the other flashing yellow? Yet MIT thinks that a lot of people will be able to figure out zipper merging in a tight space.  
 
The zipper merging could POSSIBLY work if people would accelerate as they go over the bridge instead of slowing down.  
 
The simple solution for traffic, as has been mentioned above, and I have mentioned in the past, is to increase the time of the lights on 18th and shorten the lights on Rosser. Why is the traffic on Rosser more important to get it all through on one light, yet 18th isn't important and traffic can be backed up for blocks?

aBUFAmember said "He/she has it right. Zipper merge is a temporary solution for construction and other temporary lane closures. For the reasons Woody states - and has been debated here already - it doesn't actually work.     The REAL solution (if the traffic gurus had a clue what they are doing here) would be to make northbound 2 lanes and southbound one lane. Lots of time to merge properly when going southbound, rather than within half a block of a traffic light. It's the distance from Rosser lights to the 'merge' that ultimately causes the problem, and is why zipper merging doesn't work here. "

I have suggested this before, it would make better sense if they switched directions as the south bound has more room to merge or what Pembina already said, which i had said in previous discussions on this topic, the daly bridge middle lane could be turned into an alternating lane depending on volume times but most of brandon drivers feel that it would be too dangerous because they arent used to reading signs and dont really want to get used to it, nor do they want to get used to merging so 18th st will remain backed up south of victoria until they fix the bridge ^ shrug^ what can you do

Driving in Brandon is getting harder as time passes. More people on the road, impatient drivers, rude drivers, bicycles going where they shouldn't, etc.  
If I am heading north on 18th. and intend to go over the bridge I get in the left lane. You don't move as fast there but you don't have to worry or wonder if someone will let you merge at the foot of the bridge. Simple. If the drivers in the right lane aren't being a$$holes I will let them merge.