Discussions

There was a thread a while back that quoted from somewhere that cars should yield to pedestrians at any street corner. I was surprised as I felt this was dangerous. I have been looking at a traffic bylaw and now see this...  
7.4 WHERE PEDESTRIANS YIELD RIGHT-OF-WAY  
When a pedestrian is crossing a street at a point other than within a crosswalk, the pedestrian shall  
yield the right-of-way to the motorist.  
[EN. B/L 6836]  
Here is what I believed was true and now it is clear for me and anyone else who was wondering. If there is something I am missing or misunderstanding feel free to let me know.

That every street corner was a safe crosswalk for pedestrians and is considered a crosswalk whether physically marked or not unless it is a very busy stretch like Victoria or 18th. I mean, we are walking (not to mention children and elderly) so it doesn't seem right we may have to walk blocks out of our way just to find an actual marked crosswalk because motorists are in that much of a hurry and feel they have right of way. I blame speed limits...ever increasing them to appease the yahoos in that much if a hurry is ridiculous  
 
My two cents :D

Donna666 said "There was a thread a while back that quoted from somewhere that cars should yield to pedestrians at any street corner. I was surprised as I felt this was dangerous. I have been looking at a traffic bylaw and now see this...   7.4 WHERE PEDESTRIANS YIELD RIGHT-OF-WAY   When a pedestrian is crossing a street at a point other than within a crosswalk, the pedestrian shall   yield the right-of-way to the motorist.   [EN. B/L 6836]   Here is what I believed was true and now it is clear for me and anyone else who was wondering. If there is something I am missing or misunderstanding feel free to let me know. "

The same discussion went on for some time and the various sections of the Traffic Act were posted. Your post is timely because with summer now here there are many drivers stopping to let pedestrians cross on two lane streets where there is not a marked cross walk that are putting the pedestrians in grave danger. The rule is that any provincial highway that is more than one lane with a meridian in between drivers are only required to yield to pedestrians at marked cross walks and should NOT stop to let pedestrians cross where there are no marked pedestrian corridors. Since all of Victoria Ave, 1st Street and 18th Street are Provincial roads and are multi lane with a meridian vehicles should only stop to allow pedestrians to cross at marked crosswalks. I see many drivers ignoring this rule thinking they are being kind when they are actually breaking the driving laws and more importantly putting the pedestrians in danger!

I thought that an intersection was considered a 'crosswalk' if the sidewalk continued from one side to the other, whether it is marked or not.

could get a lot of people injured or killed

Here we go again. I'd like to see a link or copy and paste of the alleged rule that says if its multi-lane you don't have to stop. I've never heard of this.

multimedia with a median means -does it not-that vehicles must stop only to allow pedestrians to cross just the 2 lanes? Westbound traffic stops for pedestrian to cross westbound lane-when pedestrian is crossing eastbound lanes westbound traffic can keep going? Stopping in both directions really snarls up traffic .

curlysister said "I thought that an intersection was considered a 'crosswalk' if the sidewalk continued from one side to the other, whether it is marked or not. "

you are also correct curlysister and that applies to most roads in Brandon but not to the Provincial Highways with multiple lanes (Victoria, 18th and 1st Street). 26th Street also has 2 lanes on both sides and a meridian in the middle but because it is not considered a provincial highway I don't think it applies on 26th.

multi lane street not multimedia..

The reason I wanted to post this is that it is unclear, why is that? Traffic accidents are serious this information should be more clear to everyone. It is dangerous if I stop and everyone else doesn't so I wish someone who can reference the proper bylaw information would then share the legislation.

Crosswalks  
Pedestrians have the right-of-way at both marked and unmarked crosswalks.  
Unmarked crosswalks — These are extensions of sidewalks across a road at an intersection. No markings or signs are required. However, precaution should be taken at all times.  
Marked crosswalks — These i:nclude crosswalks at intersections controlled by traffic lights, school crosswalks and pedestrian crosswalks.  
As a driver  
You must stop and yield the right-of-way to pedestrians who are about to cross, unless they are on the opposite side of a divided highway separated by a median. A double solid line is not a physical separation.  
• It is illegal to pass traffic ahead of you that is slowing down or stopped for pedestrians.  
• Proceed only when the pedestrians have safely crossed the street or have safely reached the median of a divided roadway.  
• No parking or stopping is allowed within three metres of a crosswalk.  
• All pedestrians have the right to use school crosswalks.  
 
Edited by loeog, 2016-06-24 16:37:30

pedestrians can't just cross at any corner streets. I anyway myself never saw a police car stopping for pedestrians at a corner street that wasn't a crosswalk corridor line.  
If there is a stop sign for the car at a corner then the pedestrian has the right of way first otherwise YOU pedestrians can't just cross as you wish especially interrupt traffic flow and may cause an accident.  
All the way of victoria ave and 10th st for example pedestrians have no right to make vehicles stop for you unless crosswalk lines which are very few but if pedestrians are walking along victoria or 10th st then pedestrians have the right to cross because adjacent streets have a stop sign for vehicle coming that way.  
when I walk and a car stop to let me cross I wave at the driver to keep driving because I don't have the right plus it p*** me off to see a driver stop traffic and make a car behind for a pedestrian that has no right.  
Maybe Brandon has to many people coming from small town that has 10 or 15 streets only.  
Manitoba actually has winnipeg and brandon as big city.  
I come from a big city also with few cities in the province.

1 chance said "pedestrians can't just cross at any corner streets. I anyway myself never saw a police car stopping for pedestrians at a corner street that wasn't a crosswalk corridor line.   If there is a stop sign for the car at a corner then the pedestrian has the right of way first otherwise YOU pedestrians can't just cross as you wish especially interrupt traffic flow and may cause an accident.   All the way of victoria ave and 10th st for example pedestrians have no right to make vehicles stop for you unless crosswalk lines which are very few but if pedestrians are walking along victoria or 10th st then pedestrians have the right to cross because adjacent streets have a stop sign for vehicle coming that way.   when I walk and a car stop to let me cross I wave at the driver to keep driving because I don't have the right plus it p*** me off to see a driver stop traffic and make a car behind for a pedestrian that has no right.   Maybe Brandon has to many people coming from small town that has 10 or 15 streets only.   Manitoba actually has winnipeg and brandon as big city.   I come from a big city also with few cities in the province. "

Sorry, but your wrong.

I think if anything that these discussions prove is that when it comes to laws related to pedestrians under the Highway Traffic Act, its confusing.  
 
I've been told by someone who teaches driver ED that as a driver you only have to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks and when you take your drivers test, you can fail for stopping for pedestrians anywhere other than a crosswalk, yet the Highway Traffic Act states differently. Or at least that's how I interpret it.  
 
Maybe its time for MPI or Police to clarify.

The_Young_Man said "I think if anything that these discussions prove is that when it comes to laws related to pedestrians under the Highway Traffic Act, its confusing.     I've been told by someone who teaches driver ED that as a driver you only have to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks and when you take your drivers test, you can fail for stopping for pedestrians anywhere other than a crosswalk, yet the Highway Traffic Act states differently. Or at least that's how I interpret it.     Maybe its time for MPI or Police to clarify. "

http://www.mpi.mb.ca/en/pdfs/completehandbook.pdf  
Page 67

The_Young_Man said "I think if anything that these discussions prove is that when it comes to laws related to pedestrians under the Highway Traffic Act, its confusing.     I've been told by someone who teaches driver ED that as a driver you only have to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks and when you take your drivers test, you can fail for stopping for pedestrians anywhere other than a crosswalk, yet the Highway Traffic Act states differently. Or at least that's how I interpret it.     Maybe its time for MPI or Police to clarify. "

The key to that is, there are crosswalks at every intersection. You must yield to pedestrians at intersections. You do not have to yield to jaywalkers. (Before someone jumps on my, I'm not suggesting that you run anybody over. You just won't be charged with not yielding)  
 
If there are traffic lights, obviously pedestrians and drivers both must obey them. Its really not that hard.

I stop for pedestrians if I see them in time. If the pedestrian waves me ahead, I don't go. You might think you are being nice or trying not to impede traffic, but I am legally obligated to stop.

I don't care what the laws say about pedestrians crossing steets at intersections, or even if they are J walking, if your driving a motorized vehicle and hit a pedestrian just because the law says that you are in the right, I don't think that you should be driving. Safe driving has to do with laws and a whole bunch of common sense, too bad we can't test for common sense, because I think that if we could there would be a lot of drivers that might not have the right to drive.  
I'm going to stop, or slow down for pedestrians regardless of what people say, and if your behind me and it bothers you, just honk your horn, that way I'll know what sort of person I'm dealing with.

Assume a cross walk at every corner, then why write the legislation like this?  
7.4 WHERE PEDESTRIANS YIELD RIGHT-OF-WAY  
When a pedestrian is crossing a street at a point other than within a crosswalk, the pedestrian shall  
yield the right-of-way to the motorist.  
[EN. B/L 6836]  
I did not see it say every corner is a crodfsswalk. Sorry if you think it is easy and some of us daft, but again my point is it is more than I who des not think it is clear!

Here is another section.  
Where a vehicle is stopped at a crosswalk or at an intersection to permit a pedestrian to cross the street,  
no driver approaching from the rear shall overtake and pass the stopped vehicle.  
[EN. B/L 6836]  
Crosswalk or intersection they say, not they are the same!

The_Young_Man said "I think if anything that these discussions prove is that when it comes to laws related to pedestrians under the Highway Traffic Act, its confusing.     I've been told by someone who teaches driver ED that as a driver you only have to stop for pedestrians at crosswalks and when you take your drivers test, you can fail for stopping for pedestrians anywhere other than a crosswalk, yet the Highway Traffic Act states differently. Or at least that's how I interpret it.     Maybe its time for MPI or Police to clarify. "

My girlfriend took her drivers test last year and I had her specifically ask about this scenario after the amount of times it has come up in this thread. She was told the same as above. Mpi conducts road exams yet the hand book states otherwise. Clarification is needed so we can put this to bed once and for all.

It seems you people can make anything confusing. it is really quite simple  
 
Every sidewalk that extends into the street and continues on the other side is a unmarked crosswalk. Those ARE NOT at every corner. if the sidewalk does not slope down to street level and slope up on the other side it is no crosswalk at all as the sidewalk does not extend into the street. On residential streets and even streets like rossers most corners are probably unmarked crosswalks.  
 
If you focus on 18st, 26th, Victoria or other busier streets the sidewalk will not extend into the road at every corner and when they do it will either be a marked crosswalk, a stop sign, or at a light with hand signals.  
 
So really what is so hard to understand here.

The reason for the but is that both motorists as well as pedestrians would have to understand the sidewalk thing. When it comes to motorists they have to be 16 to get a drivers license, reason for that has to to with understanding situations as well as responsibility. Pedestrians on the other hand cans be any age, could be someone in their early teens or even younger, and if they are not educated about crosswalks then, in my opinion, the responsibility should fall on the driver.

The part that I don't get is the fact that when you take drivers Ed, they tell you not to stop for pedestrians unless they are at a fully marked crosswalk and if you stop for a pedestrians anywhere other than a marked crosswalk you will fail the drivers test. I'm not making this up, I have relatives who just took drivers Ed this past year and a friend who teaches it and has for years and that is what they are told. Yet the laws states different. I don't get it.

So I found this link.  
http://mytoba.ca/news/pedestrian-struck-by-vehicle-in-brandon/

loeog said "So I found this link.   http://mytoba.ca/news/pedestrian-struck-by-vehicle-in-brandon/ "

Not trying to start an argument. But it should be noted that there''s a crosswalk at that intersection crossing 13th street, look on street view on Google maps. But not on Princess and it happened on 13th street according to below. She was crossing 13th street headed east and the car was headed north on 13th.  
 
Here's the full report:  
 
Vehicle/Pedestrian Accident  
 
At 0742 hours, Police received a 911 call reporting a single vehicle vs pedestrian accident in the 1300 block of Princess Ave. Investigation revealed that a vehicle northbound on 13th Street failed for a pedestrian crossing 13th Street, eastbound on Princess Avenue. A 69 year old female was transported to BRHC and was treated and released for a laceration to her head. The driver of the vehicle was charged for Fail to Yield to Pedestrian.  
http://police.brandon.ca/all-reports/3490-13-november-2015  
 
Edited by The_Young_Man, 2016-06-24 21:38:08

SparkyJones said "All intersections are crosswalks plain and simple. It's not hard to grasp this concept. Be kind and stop...If you're in that much of a hurry leave earlier. "

not all intersections are crosswalks...it depends which way direction and rules or laws are not about kind.  
In an accident I doubt the investigation will be about who was kind it will be about who had the right of way.

Yes you're right, you can fail your driving test if you stop for a pedestrian say they're jaywalking. But I don't think this applies for people crossing if there's a sidewalk on both sides of the streets (and the sidewalk slopes down to the road) as this is an unmarked crosswalk, and as stated above, pedestrians do have the right-a-way.

You're traveling down a city street at 50 km/h, watching for traffic, pedestrians, signs, and whatever that needs your attention while driving. You see a pedestrian at a corner. Now you have to look down at the corner to see if the sidewalk is sloping down to the street or if the sidewalk is extended to the street, if you can see that far ahead because of other vehicles in front of you.  
 
"Nope, it isn't, I'm not stopping."  
 
"Yes it is. If I brake hard, I can just stop in time, and I hope that the person behind me doesn't rear end me."  
 
Yup, this works well with not all intersections being crosswalks. There definitely needs to be clarification and unity on this.

If I was failed in my first drivers test for attempting to stop for a family of pedestrians at an unmarked crosswalk, then it is absolutely not okay and they do not always have the right of way.