Discussions

Be lucky if there is any tourism industry left after this and even if there is very few people will have any disposable income to spend on travelling much.

I agree with him. A lot of people I know are broke. They are also nervous about taking the cerb payment and having to pay it back. I’m just happy they are opening up seasonal camp sites again  
 
That being said. I don’t think the world will hift back to normal right away. Give it 6 months to a year. I think initially you’ll see people keeping up social distancing and hand washing and maybe even masks. But it will all fade as we let our guard down and become comfortable again.

Too many people aren't financially stable right now. Too many people dont qualify for cerb. There's way too much economic uncertainty. Travel will be the last thing on people's minds when they're trying to catch up on bills or find new jobs.

is hurting right now but my feeling is that there are plenty of people with deep pockets who can hardly wait to travel somewhere.  
Was talking to a relative and while they are not rich he said if he could travel to Cuba tomorrow he would go back.

where you going?  
 
When this is all done with, if ever, our first trip is to visit family in Monterey CA. Next is a revisit to Hawaii. Three weeks at least. And then Whitehorse.

Really open up seasonal camp sites? Last I read a few days back a it was on for RV'ers who that is their home more or less, not for casual/seasonal campers.

I spoke with our travel agent and she thinks it will be cheaper this fall to travel if this ends. But more expensive for winter getaways. She also thinks people will be anxious to travel and have a vacations, especially the front line workers.  
I also believe lots of people will have plenty of money for travel.

In these times if a few people have money like that to burn then they should consider donating some of it towards homeless shelters, food banks or healthcare etc, there are many deserving causes to help those less fortunate than the rest of us.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-04-22 03:39:26

Sadly, extensive travelling by humans is the reason Covid spread so fast.  
 
If we enjoyed everything there is to offer in our own areas of the world, the planet would be much healthier.

Lol that’s ridiculous. If people choose to donate that’s wonderful and thoughtful of them.. but just because some people are good with their money, or continued to work doesn’t mean they should donate all their money because they’re suddenly better off. Once things have entirely settled down and it’s safe, my husband and I will travel for a few weeks as we had to cancel our honey moon. No we won’t be donating our honey moon money.

Read the post . I suggested that people “should consider donating some of their money” to help others in need. That is a whole lot different to what you accused me of writing. And it isn’t ridiculous we all need to help one another in difficult times. I hope that you guys have a nice honeymoon and congratulations.  
 
Edited by Farmergeorge, 2020-04-22 09:29:08

I think when things open up again and people are allowed to travel that people should plan to travel in Canada. Canada has some amazing places to see and that way we keep our money in Canada and help our economy.  
 
We like to go away on a hot vacation every year or so but my husband and I have already talked about staying in Canada for the next year or two so we can keep our money in our country. With an emphasis of trying to support local businesses as much as possible.

People with extra money should donate it instead of traveling? How do you know they don’t donate already? That is a pretty big assumption.

Can people not read “people should consider donating some of their money”. IE SOME of their disposable income .  
Health experts on BBC news this morning are predicting the possibility of a second wave of covid 19 alongside influenza next winter. I don’t think we are going anywhere soon.

You are required to wear a mask if you are attending the airport

If there can be one element of good that comes out of this pandemic, would be the absolute abolishment and end to the cruise line industry altogether. I know it will never happen, but people who continue to consider this form of travel as a desirable way to see the world really need a reality check.  
 
It has long been a disgusting part of tourism for a number of reasons (see links) but considering these floating petri dishes have proven to be one of the worst incubators of the current virus should really start to knock some sense into the heads of people who think a cruise on a glorified floating shanty town of thousands of people is a nice way to see the world.  
 
Here are plenty of links of articles and investigations that the industry is guilty of long before the virus it. I only hope that after this, it is completely gone. But sadly, even if it is done away with (which I know it won’t be), we always find creative ways to be destructive in other manners.  
 
These links are only a drop in the bucket of articles and investigations available out there.  
 
https://usa.oceana.org/sites/default/files/reports/polling_report1.pdf  
 
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/04/26/cruise-ship-pollution-is-causing-serious-health-and-environmental-problems/#7107b2b737db  
 
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/jun/12/cruise-ships-environment-ocean-liners-emissions-waste  
 
https://www.livekindly.co/cruises-killing-marine-life/  
 
https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2019/08/articles/disease/carnival-fantasy-flunks-sanitation-inspection/  
 
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/mar/06/inside-the-cruise-ship-that-became-a-coronavirus-breeding-ground-diamond-princess  
 
https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/luxury-cruise-giant-emits-10-times-more-air-pollution-sox-all-europe%E2%80%99s-cars-%E2%80%93-study  
 
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/01/boom-in-cruise-holidays-intensifies-concern-over-emissions-dodging  
 
https://www.ft.com/content/8bceef94-86cd-11e9-a028-86cea8523dc2  
 
https://www.dw.com/en/cruise-ships-a-dirty-kind-of-luxury/g-45190968  
 
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2020/2/25/21152903/coronavirus-cruise-ship-outbreak-cruises-sexual-assault-environment  
 
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/padj8g/sex-sea-and-slavery-what-its-like-to-work-on-a-cruise-ship

Better to say nothing.

Except for the part where it is equally as expensive to travel within Canada, whether you drive and pay for gas or choose to fly. When you are going to be paying $1500 for a trip to Vancouver or $1500 for a trip overseas, I don't blame the people who are choosing to go overseas.

Aside from my last reply, I don't really think things are going to be as black and white as some of these replies have made it out to be. Traveling is a fulfilling experience and when you look back on your life, nobody will ever regret going and seeing the world. We can't let this scare us all forever.  
 
Both my mom and I have had trips impacted by Covid. About a year ago she began planning a trip to go to Spain this May. Of course the kibosh was put on that around the beginning of March when things got really bad. I was supposed to be going to Minnesota at the beginning of September this year to see a concert, and I don't imagine that will be happening either.  
 
Regardless, people will always be wanting to travel and will be saving money to do so. However I don't think people should be traveling until there is a vaccine, or perhaps if they have recovered from Covid. We won't be going back to "normal" until there is herd immunity.

Will travel after this is said and done and it’s safe to do so. Thankfully our old house just sold so we can safely breath and tuck some away. It’s been tough paying 2 mortgages since the fall.  
I think it’s a little inappropriate to tell people how or where they should spend their money and where their travel destinations should be. You do you, I will do me.

I get what you are saying, and I do agree with it, to some extent. But if anything this current global event should be teaching us is that we simply can't continue to treat this planet and the animals on it like it is our toilet.  
 
There simply are no more excuses and ignorance is becoming an overused scapegoat considering the amount of knowledge that is available to tap into out there. There is no problem with "you doing you" but it isn't that simple unfortunately anymore.  
 
If you are replying to FarmerGeorge's comment, I understand where you are coming from, it's not welcome to hear from other people how one should spend their money but I don't think he meant it from a judging point of view.  
 
Rather, we have heard endlessly in the last month how "we are all in this together", and I have to roll my eyes and cringe because deep down I know it is a big load of psycho-babble we tell ourselves to get us through this and to maintain social order. But deep down I know the second the confines are removed, it is going a big free-for-all and everyone is going back to status quo. The majority of people will not change their habits (including travel) that directly can improve our earth.  
 
Look at all the information that is coming in around the world on how much less we have been polluting and how wild animals are getting their due space once again. And all that will disappear again in a matter of months, going back to the same selfish habits. Everyone will be sick of being what to be told to do and will just want to do "you do you, I will do me".  
 
Our actions are linked, we don't live in a vacuum. We aren't isolated from one another, and I am certainly not trying to tell people what to do, I don't like it when it done to myself either. But I just hope people are taking some time to do some serious research on issues that have contributed to the current state we're in and make changes so hopefully we improve future quality of lives. Doesn't mean people live in fear and live in a box, it means making smart and realistic changes for the betterment and taking the lip service of "we're all in it together" and adopting it on a more long-term basis.  
 
I don't doubt I'll have some challenges to my comments but I'm just tired in living in a world that is going to s*&% and knowing my daughter is going to inherent that from us all.

The biggest issue I take with your reply is that it doesn't seem to be taking into account the fact that our individual impacts are [i]nothing[/i] compared to the impact that corporations and industry have on the planet. Unless you're ready to go full on "eat the rich" and challenge the capitalist society we are a part of, we will never win.  
 
The reality is that the 99% are not taking trip after trip after trip. I don't know about you but I'm doing my best to not treat the earth like it's a giant landfill. I do my best, I avoid using plastic, I use reusable straws, I shop local when I can, I don't buy plastic bottled water, I compost and recycle. What more is there for me to do as an individual and as a consumer? I'm checking all these boxes and yet it's not really up to me whether or not a company packages their product in plastic or not.  
 
As for your comment about the world going to "s*&%", that is generally a reason that most people cite for not having children at all. Regardless, I'm pretty sure children throughout time have had to "inherit" a crappy society. If people teach their children to do their best and how to take care of the earth and others that's the best one can do.

“I don't know about you but I'm doing my best to not treat the earth like it's a giant landfill. I do my best, I avoid using plastic, I use reusable straws, I shop local when I can, I don't buy plastic bottled water, I compost and recycle. What more is there for me to do as an individual and as a consumer? I'm checking all these boxes and yet it's not really up to me whether or not a company packages their product in plastic or not.”  
 
I’m not going to judge you on what you do about the things you named but everything you described is exactly what I’m talking about. All those things do not inconvenience your life in any shape or form by adopting them. There is no research in that. Meaning, it is what elementary kids are told to do because at their cognitive level they can understand it and are measures used as a way to get them to think environmentally at a young age with the goal that they progress as they grow into adulthood moving onto bigger issues. The thing is for most of us, we haven’t progressed beyond that level and fail to properly research how we actually can contribute to better living for planet and animals and still lead happy lives.  
 
The whole old argument of “the fact that our individual impacts are [i]nothing[/i] compared to the impact that corporations and industry have on the planet”. It’s what people tell themselves when they don’t want to make any significant changes to their lives. You’re not wrong on one level, but it’s a philosophical argument on how one chooses to live their life with the understanding that the “capitalist society we are a part of” is indeed all connected.  
 
So if everybody thinks that they can’t make any impact because big corporations do more damage, well then I guess that absolves all of us little minions of having to make any real obligations toward some serious changes.  
 
We’ll just keep those zoonotic diseases going since it’s believed that each generation “throughout time have had to "inherit" a crappy society”. I guess it’s just an exaggeration. What part of zoonotic diseases do you think we should teach our children about?  
 
https://www.livescience.com/21426-global-zoonoses-diseases-hotspots.html  
https://www.livescience.com/12951-10-infectious-diseases-ebola-plague-influenza.html  
 
It’s an unpleasant topic that is very polarizing, I get it, but it’s high time we start have some serious conversations about it and stop ignoring it and burying our head in the sand by switching to using paper straws to give us a false sense that we actually are doing something, rather than having the real conversations in our households.

Where can you go overseas for 1500?

That's an average round trip airfare ticket price .

On so many levels. Unfortunately many people don’t want to see it that way.

This will not effect the tourism industry a great amount, as the majority of families will limit their travels to tourism attractions in Manitoba and surrounding Provinces. There are a lot of very beautiful and scenic spots in Manitoba and surrounding Provinces which any family would find enjoyable. As far as winter travel goes, the seniors will continue to head south to their winter homes in Florida, Arizona etc. , and those t hat take winter vacations overseas will probabily continue to do so with some safety measures being taken. As far as donating money that is an individual choice. There is an abundance of money amongst the seniors - but this is money which they worked very hard for over the years - and going without during their younger years in order to have a nice retirement. Even those living from paycheck to paycheck should be putting a few bucks aside each month into a rainy day fund for situations such as the pandemic of today.

What you've been saying is great and all, but I have yet to read a single one of your replies where you offer alternative actions to take besides abolishing the cruise industry. You are lecturing me for not doing research and thinking at a cognitively elementary-aged level but not giving me anything else to go off of. What do you actually propose I do instead?  
 
I am doing those things because they are meaningful to me and I know that they help. In a perfect world in which I was also perfect I would probably also be baking bread all the time instead of buying it in plastic bags, I wouldn't be buying medication that is safety wrapped in plastic bottles (or perhaps I wouldn't need medication at all!), and instead of buying produce I would have a huge garden in the summer with which the food that comes from it would last me all winter.  
 
I am unsure why you have brought up "zoonotic diseases" when we are discussing things we could be doing to improve the environment.  
 
 
"It’s an unpleasant topic that is very polarizing, I get it, but it’s high time we start have some serious conversations about it and stop ignoring it and burying our head in the sand by switching to using paper straws to give us a false sense that we actually are doing something, rather than having the real conversations in our households." -machineman150, 2020  
 
^^^^ I continue to wait with bated breath for you to offer some suggestions for what we should be doing besides abolishing the cruise industry and eating Beyond Meat. Not trying to be sarcastic, just genuinely curious.  
 
Edited by Millenial, 2020-04-23 18:32:09