Discussions

RC123 said "I have emailed the school division and also told transportation my thoughts on this as well. I agree! We as parents must speak up if this doesn’t work. The next one is even more inconvenient.     There is no way this saves money. Buses run more than they usually do. I was told the issue was with the teachers not attending the PD days. This will likely fix that problem but at whose expense? The parents and the kids.     Please let the school division know what your thoughts on this ridiculous schedule are. They won’t change it back if they think everyone is on board "

That is probably what the division wants. They want parents to complain. Then they can say that parents want the full days off. This will cost the school division way more than the so called savings of $80,000 per year and will say they need a budget increase and put that on our taxes. What I don't understand is why can't they take spring break and Christmas break to have these development days over a week? That way no students schedules would be missed, no substitutes need to be hired, nor buses need to be running.

The reason for these half days has nothing to do with teachers not attending PD days! That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!  
 
It is extremely rare for any teacher (in my school) to ever miss, even a portion of a PD day.

Teachers need breaks too!! They shouldn't have to do these PD days over their breaks and all at once instead of spread out. Good job to all the teachers out there working hard at this time of year. Reports are coming up and it's a stressful time. The division sent out surveys last year regarding the half days. Maybe if more parents would have taken it and spoken up then things wouldn't have changed.

Never have I ever disputed the fact that the teachers deserve time off. I have no issues with there being full day’s off throughout the year but they should be a full day!!!  
 
Yes there was a survey sent out. I filled it out! I remember quite well when the survey was sent out. It was in the middle of a snow storm when most bus kids were home for almost a week. Then we got it and had very minimal time to fill it out. It was rushed on purpose so that parents didn’t have time to really realize what was going on.  
 
I would love to see how this saves $80,000 because I certainly can’t see it. Now you have kids missing school and buses running more than before, plus extra substitutes being brought in. Classes are being shortened to accommodate this schedule so really what did the kids get out of this morning? Should just call it a day off and give the teachers a half day PD day. That would likely save this supposed money they are saving

London234 said "Teachers need breaks too!! They shouldn't have to do these PD days over their breaks and all at once instead of spread out. Good job to all the teachers out there working hard at this time of year. Reports are coming up and it's a stressful time. The division sent out surveys last year regarding the half days. Maybe if more parents would have taken it and spoken up then things wouldn't have changed. "

That survey was a joke. Not everyone got one, it was super rushed and not explained very well. It was done in an extremely poor manner because the superintendent was already making it happen. It didn''t matter what the results were of the rushed survey, that most didn''t get, because they were doing it no matter what.  
 
And yes teachers need a break, but not 11 weeks of it. These 6 half days, which equal 3 full days, could be done during the 11 weeks no problem. In fact all these pd days could be done during summer, spring break and Christmas break. Maybe do one week atbeginning of summer, one week at end of summer, and two days over Christmas holidays and two days over Spring break, and still have 8 weeks of holidays over the year.  
 
I''m thankful that I am almost done with BSD... finally! I didn''t and won''t send my kid to school on half days, it''s not worth it. And only 1 out of 4 of the kids I look after went to school today, the rest came to my house.  
Half days are a waste of time. Just my opinion!  
 
Edited by Cheezies, 2017-11-02 17:47:18

These half days really are a joke. The BSD has been horrible about this whole thing. I have looked everywhere on there website about any info about busing for these days but it seems like they are not at all on top of ant of it as far as getting info out to parents about the actual schedule and times for busing. Wondering if anyone has been sent out or emailed any info about this without having to call the school for the information? I sure hope for many people that they realize this has been one of their worst ideas yet and don't do this next year.

Actually I believe teachers have 13 weeks of holidays each year. I agree with you that the PD days should be during these holidays. I have friends that are teachers and they find it terrible to go back to school in the fall after having nine weeks off in the summer. Maybe it would be easier on them if they worked during summer like the rest of society so they didn't have such a long break. Could they not be helping weaker students during this time or doing something else productive?

I'm shocked at how little respect there is for teachers in this thread!  
 
our principal was at the parent council meeting to discuss the half days. the half days provide more opportunities to meet as a group and stay on track as a team.  
 
if your kid is in the lunch program you had til 1245 to pick them up and the y provided childcare at the school for the afternoon for those who signed up. you only had to arrange care for less than 3 hours instead of a whole day.  
 
it's a change but don't complain just because it's new.

dueindecember said "I'm shocked at how little respect there is for teachers in this thread!     our principal was at the parent council meeting to discuss the half days. the half days provide more opportunities to meet as a group and stay on track as a team.     if your kid is in the lunch program you had til 1245 to pick them up and the y provided childcare at the school for the afternoon for those who signed up. you only had to arrange care for less than 3 hours instead of a whole day.     it's a change but don't complain just because it's new. "

I personally have a lot of respect for teacher and am not knocking them at at all. But with that said I don't think they need 11-13 weeks of holidays a year. So an extra week at the beginning of July and an extra week at the end of August, and a couple days at Christmas and spring break doesn't seem far out of reach to do pd days then. Still would leave a lot of holidays available.  
 
And im not complaining "just because it's new", but because it's a pain in the a**!  
I believe the Y program only accommodates for 30 kids per location ( if I'm wrong please let me know). That's only a tiny fraction of each school. Not all kids are lunch program kids as there are limited spots for that too. So kids were to be picked up by 12 is my understanding, as there was no supervision for them. Not all parents have a 12pm lunch time to go pick up kids, or even at 12:45pm for lunch kids.  
 
Now when they go to school for afternoon... my kid would be on the bus or waiting for bus, longer than actual length of both classes. Not even worth it. It's a waste of everyone's time.  
 
A lot of daycares don't have half day rates, so you have to pay a full day for a few hours of care! And if you do have one with half day rates, they are only up to 4hrs, after that it's a full days rate! So if you have to pick your kid up at noon to take to daycare, and work till 5... full day rate. If you have to pick your kid up at 12:45 after lunch program to take to take care and work till 5... full day rate! So might as well just have the whole day, as your paying for a whole day, and save yourself the gas money and headache of rescheduling your lunch breaks!  
 
Once again just my opinion!

missdee83 said "These half days really are a joke. The BSD has been horrible about this whole thing. I have looked everywhere on there website about any info about busing for these days but it seems like they are not at all on top of ant of it as far as getting info out to parents about the actual schedule and times for busing. Wondering if anyone has been sent out or emailed any info about this without having to call the school for the information? I sure hope for many people that they realize this has been one of their worst ideas yet and don't do this next year. "

We never received any info from transportation or school about how the bussing would work for these half days. I personally contacted them and they sounded confused as well trying to explain it to me. I'm extremely disappointed in how they did the initial survey and the lack of information since!

Before you get excited about teachers having 11 or 13 weeks "off" in the summer, please remember that they are technically not paid for this time. Their contract clearly indicates that they are considered to be employed from September to June. So officially they are unemployed for the summer. They get paid in July and August, but are deemed to have earned this income in the "school year". So their 10 months of salary is spread over 12 months. I know, you're thinking this is just a technicality, but ask any female teacher who didn't have a baby at just the right time how it affects their mat leave benefits. And how this is OK when provincial labour law specifies how long an employer has to pay an employee from when the work was done. You think they should work in the summer too, or even part of it? Then we'll need to pay them for that work as well. On second thought, let's not go there.

aBUFAmember said "Before you get excited about teachers having 11 or 13 weeks "off" in the summer, please remember that they are technically not paid for this time. Their contract clearly indicates that they are considered to be employed from September to June. So officially they are unemployed for the summer. They get paid in July and August, but are deemed to have earned this income in the "school year". So their 10 months of salary is spread over 12 months. I know, you're thinking this is just a technicality, but ask any female teacher who didn't have a baby at just the right time how it affects their mat leave benefits. And how this is OK when provincial labour law specifies how long an employer has to pay an employee from when the work was done. You think they should work in the summer too, or even part of it? Then we'll need to pay them for that work as well. On second thought, let's not go there. "

I agree that if they were to use days in the summer and during other breaks for these pd days, that their pay would need to be adjusted to accommodate that. I never said they shouldn't be paid for it. If they work extra time, then definitely extra pay. But if there were no pd days off throughout school year other than holidays, the school year could end earlier in June, and pd days could be done in June, and be done by July, so pay would be no different. Or do this with half of the pd days, and still spread out the other half throughout the school year. The pay would be no different, as the same amount of days worked, and still with all the scheduled holiday breaks off.

Let's be clear that these half day PDs were structured so that teachers have time to meet as a team and plan for students' individual needs. If PDs were held at the beginning of July or end of August, teachers would not know the needs of their students and would be unable to effectively plan for these needs. The half day PDs give teachers more frequent times during the school year to meet and plan effectively.  
 
And before people jump on the "teachers only work 8:45-3:30" so they can meet after school, please go into your child's school and see how many teachers are there before and after hours on a daily basis. There are not many teachers who work what the public think are "teacher hours." Many teachers put in additional time before and after school hours EVERY day as well as on their breaks like Christmas, spring break and gasp! their 8 weeks during the summer. (I dare you to drive by your child's school during the month of August and see how many of the teachers' cars are in the parking lot.)  
 
For many jobs, the boss can call a staff meeting at 10:00 or 2:00 during the work day and employees can drop their current task and meet as a team to plan for next steps...teachers don't have this luxury to meet when everyone has a room full of students to deal with. The half day PD's give teachers that opportunity so that they can work together to benefit the students of their building.  
 
Shame on them and the school division for trying to put students' needs first!

For me personally I have no issues with how many PD days are taken during the year. I do very much prefer that these PD days are on a Friday or a Monday as it potentially gives the child more family time. I do not dispute teachers hours/pay/holidays etc. They earn their money and deserve the time off! The main issue I have is these half days! They cause a real pain in the rear for most parents. Now kids are missing class because of it , like I said my daughter’s class was missing 6 kids out of the 20. My daughter rode the bus yesterday for 2 hours then spent 2.5 hours in class! Does that make any sense. Throw in recess and really how much learning happened in that short time. Do that 6 times this year and what a waste.  
 
We need to not get lost in the main issue here. The school division will not get rid of PD days during the year but we certainly can go back to full day Pd days.

London234 said "Teachers need breaks too!! They shouldn't have to do these PD days over their breaks and all at once instead of spread out. Good job to all the teachers out there working hard at this time of year. Reports are coming up and it's a stressful time. The division sent out surveys last year regarding the half days. Maybe if more parents would have taken it and spoken up then things wouldn't have changed. "

While I do respect teachers for what they do. "They need breaks too" 2 months in the summer +, 2 weeks at Christmas, over a week for spring break, all of the stat holidays. working days from 9 - 3:30... give me a break they can take a few of these "vacation" days and do there pd day stuff then. No one else in the work force gets this much holiday time. If you don't like the work don't do it, do it because you love it.  
 
There were very few people who actually received theses surveys at all. I had no idea. This was handled poorly at best.

dueindecember said "I'm shocked at how little respect there is for teachers in this thread!     our principal was at the parent council meeting to discuss the half days. the half days provide more opportunities to meet as a group and stay on track as a team.     if your kid is in the lunch program you had til 1245 to pick them up and the y provided childcare at the school for the afternoon for those who signed up. you only had to arrange care for less than 3 hours instead of a whole day.     it's a change but don't complain just because it's new. "

Its not as if they are watching the kids for free, I myself already pay over 200 a month for the before and after program, 20 a month for lunch program. Now I have to get a spot and pay more money on top of the money I am already shelling out for afterschool care that he wont be utilizing that day (still paying it). Not everyone has money trees in there back yard

TFCfan said "Let's be clear that these half day PDs were structured so that teachers have time to meet as a team and plan for students' individual needs. If PDs were held at the beginning of July or end of August, teachers would not know the needs of their students and would be unable to effectively plan for these needs. The half day PDs give teachers more frequent times during the school year to meet and plan effectively.     And before people jump on the "teachers only work 8:45-3:30" so they can meet after school, please go into your child's school and see how many teachers are there before and after hours on a daily basis. There are not many teachers who work what the public think are "teacher hours." Many teachers put in additional time before and after school hours EVERY day as well as on their breaks like Christmas, spring break and gasp! their 8 weeks during the summer. (I dare you to drive by your child's school during the month of August and see how many of the teachers' cars are in the parking lot.)     For many jobs, the boss can call a staff meeting at 10:00 or 2:00 during the work day and employees can drop their current task and meet as a team to plan for next steps...teachers don't have this luxury to meet when everyone has a room full of students to deal with. The half day PD's give teachers that opportunity so that they can work together to benefit the students of their building.     Shame on them and the school division for trying to put students' needs first! "

Thank-you for this explanation and I do understand a bit more on why the pd days throughout the year. We are told they are in "workshops" and didn't realize they were actually meeting to plan effectively.  
 
But I will argue that half days are an effective use of time for students. The school division needs to go back to the old schedule of full days then. Doing a quick search I couldn't find many other school divisions that use half days for this purpose. Maybe I'm wrong and there are more. But if other divisions can make it on the full days throughout the year, then so can we. Take the 3 full days (like they did last year) instead of 6 half useless days.  
I think we need to go back to the previous schedule as this just adds more time off for students. I'd rather them miss 3 days instead of 6 (as I won't send them for a half day).  
 
And I've never said that teachers don't work their butts off. I have family that are teachers and their day is never 8:30-3:30. And the amount of teachers that give up their time to coach sports and other events is remarkable. I've never negated that.

Bashing teachers is not going to get them on board with encouraging the school division to change this back. We need everyone to be on the same page here- teachers, bus drivers and parents! This new half day PD days do not work well, they create a lot more hassle than is necessary. This decision was not done by the teachers but by the division office. These people sit in an office making decisions that affect all of us. It’s not the teachers deciding

I ask why are workshops not done in the summer. Teachers contracts are for 12 months but paid over ten so they are getting paid for 2 months of holidays. Then they take nearly one day a month during the school year.. don’t get me wrong I get that teachers need to learn too however why is it that they aren’t expected to go for PD during the summer when it doesn’t inconvenience their students or their families... and I get the blah blah they went to school and earn it.... but about the other professions. ECEs go to school but have to take many workshops on the weekend.. I just don’t get it.. nearly three months of holidays a year PLUS PD days!!

Man here we go again!  
People need to check their facts before spouting off on EBRANDON  
Thanks to our teachers for all the hard work you do, I don't know how you guys go about doing your job when a lot of these complainers on EBRANDON are parents of kids you teach. I can only imagine how they are too deal with

Can you please elaborate on what facts to check? Can you provide some clarity to the conversation?  
 
I have read the collective agreement and cannot for the life of me find where the mandatory start and end dates of each teaching year is. Nor where it is a mandatory vacation time for spring break and Christmas time.  
 
Yes we all know that these teachers work themselves to the bone daily. We all know that every teacher starts their day around 8am and doesn't leave till 4-5 pm. Plus they all volunteer for sporting events, etc. I know I have never had to wait for a teacher to come to a class they always beat the students there, waiting with smiles on their faces ready to greet ready to learn students. I know I have never had teachers pass me at the pm bell when I was picking up my child. We all know that teachers are one of the hardest working professions known. We are so lucky to have such a tight school year. Imagine we had it easy like the Chinese?  
The School Day  
On a typical school day, school starts at 07:30 with a reading session followed by the morning exercise and then four 45-minute class periods ending at noon. Afternoon classes start at 14:00 with three periods that end at 17:20. Many students stay at school longer to do extra-curricular activities and additional tutoring. Chinese students work hard and the school regime is strict.  
 
PD days. I have no idea how they came up with the half days as that makes no sense what so ever for the student to come in for a morning or afternoon. The only savings I can see from the school division is not having to hire subs for a half day. I think everyone can agree this was an idea that leaves everyone with a bad taste in their mouths.  
 
Are their options? I would agree their is. One person commented that these days are tailored to the specifics of individual student needs. I have yet to find any information on that nor hear of that by anyone that I know working within the division. I have been told these are workshops that you sign up for and attend.  
http://www.mbteach.org/mtscms/2017/09/01/mts-pd-day-2017-program/  
If everyone wants to argue that they cannot have these workshops over spring break or Christmas I would like to hear why not. Can anyone speak on the last PD day as a teacher and explain how the day was customized to specific child learning? I am told they are speakers that have attended say an Anti Bully seminar and they spread the information to other teachers to better handle these experiences, or workshops for teachers to better lean on how to engage the eager minds wanting to learn, etc. They sign up for the workshops they want to attend. I have never heard one person tell me that the day was focused on how Little Suzie and Sarah needs specialized learning and how teachers will focus on certain areas of focus for these kids. So I ask the question can a transgender workshop be done over a spring break or Christmas break?  
 
If I am wrong I am wrong. I would like someone to clarify if they can on what was taught on a PD day and how it has proven results of increased student learning. Is anyone within the system able to comment on what they have learned during these times?

teachers have to pay to be a part of the teachers association as well as pay for the workshop they are attending. Usually around $50. As most are parents they are paying for childcare for their child who is missing school that day too.  
 
to the person who told me half day childcare ($20) was too expensive, what do you do on full day pd days?

dueindecember said "teachers have to pay to be a part of the teachers association as well as pay for the workshop they are attending. Usually around $50. As most are parents they are paying for childcare for their child who is missing school that day too.     to the person who told me half day childcare ($20) was too expensive, what do you do on full day pd days? "

Did you know those fees also cover their benefits too? I pay more than then teachers fee every year for my short/long term disability and extended health benefits such as dental. So really it is a moot point they have to pay fees for the society. You can call it teachers fees, I can call it health care benefits. Did you also know in their contracts teachers get an allowance too. I do believe it is just under $800 per year I thought I saw in the collective agreement.

 
 
Edited by TFCfan, 2017-11-03 15:57:27

Fishin Guy said "    dueindecember said "teachers have to pay to be a part of the teachers association as well as pay for the workshop they are attending. Usually around $50. As most are parents they are paying for childcare for their child who is missing school that day too.     to the person who told me half day childcare ($20) was too expensive, what do you do on full day pd days? " Did you know those fees also cover their benefits too? I pay more than then teachers fee every year for my short/long term disability and extended health benefits such as dental. So really it is a moot point they have to pay fees for the society. You can call it teachers fees, I can call it health care benefits. Did you also know in their contracts teachers get an allowance too. I do believe it is just under $800 per year I thought I saw in the collective agreement. "

Where did you get your facts from? To my knowledge, teachers pay their association fees and then benefits (health, dental, disability, etc.) on top of that. And what allowance are you referring to? $800/year that comes to teachers from where exactly? And for what?

So you have to deal with the expenses that come along with it. Why not look for other parents and trade child care? Take turns on the 1/2 day in-services?  
I work in the school division and I'm happy for these in-services. I am offered in-services on these days to do my job better. How fantastic is that? Plus I can opt out and spend the half days with my children. I think instead of looking at All the negatives....look at how you can positively handle these situations....i chose to attend a few pd days and stay home with my kids...how lucky are we to get these extra days with our kids?

TFCfan said "    Fishin Guy said "    dueindecember said "teachers have to pay to be a part of the teachers association as well as pay for the workshop they are attending. Usually around $50. As most are parents they are paying for childcare for their child who is missing school that day too.     to the person who told me half day childcare ($20) was too expensive, what do you do on full day pd days? " Did you know those fees also cover their benefits too? I pay more than then teachers fee every year for my short/long term disability and extended health benefits such as dental. So really it is a moot point they have to pay fees for the society. You can call it teachers fees, I can call it health care benefits. Did you also know in their contracts teachers get an allowance too. I do believe it is just under $800 per year I thought I saw in the collective agreement. " Where did you get your facts from? To my knowledge, teachers pay their association fees and then benefits (health, dental, disability, etc.) on top of that. And what allowance are you referring to? $800/year that comes to teachers from where exactly? And for what? "

I look online. If I am wrong by all means correct me as I would like to hear input from the teachers.  
For allowances item 9.01  
www.mbteach.org/pdfs/cb/ca-Brandon.pdf  
Fees:  
http://www.mbteach.org/mtscms/2017/05/25/98th-agm-underway/  
And from what I gather in this other link I just found. Is this not what the fees are for?  
www.mbteach.org/pdfs/hb/HB-StructureServices.pdf

Ladybug said "So you have to deal with the expenses that come along with it. Why not look for other parents and trade child care? Take turns on the 1/2 day in-services?   I work in the school division and I'm happy for these in-services. I am offered in-services on these days to do my job better. How fantastic is that? Plus I can opt out and spend the half days with my children. I think instead of looking at All the negatives....look at how you can positively handle these situations....i chose to attend a few pd days and stay home with my kids...how lucky are we to get these extra days with our kids? "

During those days that you opt out of PD days to spend this lucky time with your kids are you paid for it? I think the struggle here is parents and non parents are taxed to death here in Manitoba and read about someone in the division opting out of PD days so they can stay home with their little kiddies. But we have to look at it as how lucky we are that when you feel like attending a PD day it should give everyone a warm fuzzy feeling that what you learn will totally benefit the teaching of the students? OMG we are so lucky as a society for that. Common people what are we complaining about here then? So we can't have these workshops on a spring break or christmas shut down why?

How many teachers do you know that only work 9-3:30? Probably close to zero.  
 
Also having pds in the summer about how you're going to help the students in your class isn't going to be very productive if you haven't met the students in your class yet. By meeting once a month or every couple months during the year it allows for teachers to work together and learn new ideas that they can try in their classes throughout the year.

They pay $988 a year in association fees to MTS. They pay extra for benefits each month. They pay extra for disability insurance. They are only paid for 10 months, but most choose to be paid over 12 months because it is easier to budget.