Discussions

I just got home from the pool. After starting a conversation about this very topic with the mothers and fathers that had children in the pool guess what came of it? The very attentive mothers all pretty much said 'Oh hell no, not my daughter' And the fathers who really were not acting very paternal, all said it didn't matter so much to them.  
 
It seemed to me that those that had a vested interest in their daughters wouldn't even consider the idea, whereas those that were more concerned about texting on their phone thought that topless girls in the pool may not be such a bad idea.  
 
Now I'm not going to draw any conclusions to this, I'll leave you to do that on your own.

Nordberg said "    GreenDragon said "I just got home from the pool. After starting a conversation about this very topic with the mothers and fathers that had children in the pool guess what came of it? The very attentive mothers all pretty much said 'Oh hell no, not my daughter' And the fathers who really were not acting very paternal, all said it didn't matter so much to them.     It seemed to me that those that had a vested interest in their daughters wouldn't even consider the idea, whereas those that were more concerned about texting on their phone thought that topless girls in the pool may not be such a bad idea.     Now I'm not going to draw any conclusions to this, I'll leave you to do that on your own. " Yes, your very unscientific, self-selected unbiased study totally convinced me.     That's sarcasm in case you're wondering.     You truly can't accept any opinion or even fact that exists outside your narrow point of view, can you? "

I'm completely satisfied with my point of view. Actually it's your point of view that's in the minority. Poll after poll on this subject states so.  
 
You'll never convince me, or the majority of parents of young girls, that the benefits of being topless outweighs the risks. That's all there is to it.

GreenDragon said "The distinction is that boys breasts will never develop into sexual objects. They have never been seen as such.     Girls breasts will develop into sexual objects along with providing sustenance to a growing child.     So any girl, or parent of a girl, not wanting to attract sexual attention to the girl, should cover that girl up from the get go otherwise it turns into a messy 'well I didn't have to wear a top when I was little, why do I have to now?' argument and can cause psychological confusion which is very detrimental to the emotional development of the girl. But ultimately I'm sure nobody wants to draw sexual attention to themselves or their children.     Even if it is your legal right to do so, would you even consider allowing something that would draw sexual attention to your child? "

Actually, mens breasts used to be sexualized as well, in New York City, a man could be fined for removing his shirt in Central Park as late as 1960.  
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barechestedness  
 
As others pointed out societal norms change, and usually its the younger generation that does the changing. Look at the more recent trend in smart phones. Alot of the older generation is not as good with newer technology, as it requires a learning curve. The younger you start learning something (technology, or a new societal behaviour) the more acceptable it will be to society.  
 
Yes currently our society sexualizes breasts, but only because the only time that a lot of people see breasts is when they are either watching porn or about to have sex with a partner. If breasts were taken out of the bedroom and porn screens, and put out there everyday, people would be DE-sensitized and would no longer see breasts as sexual, just another part of your body.  
 
And to those who think that anything that is effected by puberty needs to be covered up, just think:  
1) guys facial hair  
2) underarm hair  
3) body shape changes (hips, shoulders, etc)  
4) skin (acne breakouts on face or body)  
 
This leaves only the eyes, so everybody burka (sp?) and hijab (sp?) up, it will keep away all sexual predators according to your theories.  
 
Yes I am a guy, yes breasts look great, yes i have a daughter, yes i have grown up seeing breasts mostly only in pornos or in the bedroom.  
 
I believe in the equality of choice for females to choose to go as clothed or unclothed as males. Not saying society will change overnight and everyone will accept the topless female form as 'normal', but when women first got the vote, i bet some women said "i was raised that good girls don't vote", same attitude, new issue.  
 
And you are encouraging rape culture.  
[i]So any girl, or parent of a girl, not wanting to attract sexual attention to the girl, should cover that girl up from the get go... [/i]  
so it is the girl (or her parents) that is asking to be sexualized by not wearing a top.  
 
Well lets just hope you never go out dressed in anything orange. It would be your fault if you are thrown in jail just because some one thinks that by dressing in orange you just escaped and are asking to be put in back jail.  

anonymous11111 said "    GreenDragon said "The distinction is that boys breasts will never develop into sexual objects. They have never been seen as such.     Girls breasts will develop into sexual objects along with providing sustenance to a growing child.     So any girl, or parent of a girl, not wanting to attract sexual attention to the girl, should cover that girl up from the get go otherwise it turns into a messy 'well I didn't have to wear a top when I was little, why do I have to now?' argument and can cause psychological confusion which is very detrimental to the emotional development of the girl. But ultimately I'm sure nobody wants to draw sexual attention to themselves or their children.     Even if it is your legal right to do so, would you even consider allowing something that would draw sexual attention to your child? " Actually, mens breasts used to be sexualized as well, in New York City, a man could be fined for removing his shirt in Central Park as late as 1960.   source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barechestedness     As others pointed out societal norms change, and usually its the younger generation that does the changing. Look at the more recent trend in smart phones. Alot of the older generation is not as good with newer technology, as it requires a learning curve. The younger you start learning something (technology, or a new societal behaviour) the more acceptable it will be to society.     Yes currently our society sexualizes breasts, but only because the only time that a lot of people see breasts is when they are either watching porn or about to have sex with a partner. If breasts were taken out of the bedroom and porn screens, and put out there everyday, people would be DE-sensitized and would no longer see breasts as sexual, just another part of your body.     And to those who think that anything that is effected by puberty needs to be covered up, just think:   1) guys facial hair   2) underarm hair   3) body shape changes (hips, shoulders, etc)   4) skin (acne breakouts on face or body)     This leaves only the eyes, so everybody burka (sp?) and hijab (sp?) up, it will keep away all sexual predators according to your theories.     Yes I am a guy, yes breasts look great, yes i have a daughter, yes i have grown up seeing breasts mostly only in pornos or in the bedroom.     I believe in the equality of choice for females to choose to go as clothed or unclothed as males. Not saying society will change overnight and everyone will accept the topless female form as 'normal', but when women first got the vote, i bet some women said "i was raised that good girls don't vote", same attitude, new issue.     And you are encouraging rape culture.   [i]So any girl, or parent of a girl, not wanting to attract sexual attention to the girl, should cover that girl up from the get go... [/i]   so it is the girl (or her parents) that is asking to be sexualized by not wearing a top.     Well lets just hope you never go out dressed in anything orange. It would be your fault if you are thrown in jail just because some one thinks that by dressing in orange you just escaped and are asking to be put in back jail.   "

"Yes currently our society sexualizes breasts, but only because the only time that a lot of people see breasts is when they are either watching porn or about to have sex with a partner. If breasts were taken out of the bedroom and porn screens, and put out there everyday, people would be DE-sensitized and would no longer see breasts as sexual, just another part of your body."  
 
"I believe in the equality of choice for females to choose to go as clothed or unclothed as males. Not saying society will change overnight and everyone will accept the topless female form as 'normal', but when women first got the vote, i bet some women said "i was raised that good girls don't vote", same attitude, new issue."  
 
YES!! Totally agree. In time there should be complete and total equality of the sexes. Do I think that time is now and do I think we should start with nudity in children? Noooooooo  
 
Okay, I will never strut my stuff down main street top-free. However, if others ADULTS want to do it, I will be the first in line to back them up. Personally I think it's wrong for a ton of reasons, but I Love the idea of empowering women in every way that I can. I just would never choose to exercise that right, and probably would do a lot of cringing if I actually see it in practice but that's neither here nor there.  
 
I just don't think we should start this equality thing with topless little girls! Let the adult women swim around top free for a few years and desensitize society to it and then the kids can go ahead without consequence! ..right now it's just too new. Too many eyes would be on them, and undoubtedly kids would be shamed, bullied, teased and even possibly abused as a consequence. I just will never be okay with that until this society is ready for such a thing.  
 
 
 
 
 

Ok, let's stop fighting. Here is the solution that makes both sides happy. Change the law so that both men and women have to cover their chests in public.  
 
Win-win.  
 
After all, it is all about equality.  
 
Fight over.

Butterflymbca said "Ok, let's stop fighting. Here is the solution that makes both sides happy. Change the law so that both men and women have to cover their chests in public.     Win-win.     After all, it is all about equality.     Fight over. "

Haha Perfect!

I agree . Men should cover up their chest in public.  
Why any women wants to de-sexualize their part of body that it is sexual. It is who we are and we proud of it and we proud of our body the way it is. Even most of women who wants to show their breast they know that it is sexual. Why men want us to de-sexual it by the name of equality. We need equality in way more important stuff.When women are busy thinking, busy arguing and busy doing these stuff, In the name of equity, there will be no more time or energy to argue for important stuff that they really bring equity. So men will win again, watching and enjoying breasts everywhere and no real equity what so ever. Ha ha  

Deb1 said "I agree . Men should cover up their chest in public.   Why any women wants to de-sexualize their part of body that it is sexual. It is who we are and we proud of it and we proud of our body the way it is. Even most of women who wants to show their breast they know that it is sexual. Why men want us to de-sexual it by the name of equality. We need equality in way more important stuff.When women are busy thinking, busy arguing and busy doing these stuff, In the name of equity, there will be no more time or energy to argue for important stuff that they really bring equity. So men will win again, watching and enjoying breasts everywhere and no real equity what so ever. Ha ha   "

Yes to everything you just said. If we're going to fight the equality fight surely there are more important matters than this!  
 
Sing it sister!

Nordberg, I read your last post and thought that nothing has been gained. We leave things to the courts to decide and I'm wondering if the courts ruled correctly, by stating that breasts are not sexual it means that they can be exposed in public, but that is not acceptable unless you are in certain places, like a beach, maybe the courts where wrong on breasts not being sexual, and sometimes in the name of equality they get things wrong.  
 
I am also puzzled by something you said in the comment, you said that the next time you see a prepubescent girt going topless one should mind their own business. Now I may be reading the intent of that wrong, but why the distinction between between prepubescent and a woman who is developed. To be completely fair would it not of been better to just say a female, sometimes a single word can give a statement a completely different meaning.

If all women started walking around bare chested, it would NOT be a win win for men. In fact, it would likely go a long way to desexualizing breasts because the large majority of women do not have the perky round breasts that men tend to fantasize about as sexy. Many women, especially older women, have breasts that wouldn't be considered sexy, because as a society we've created a false idea of what all breasts look like. Once a woman has breastfed a few kids, gained a bit of weight, lost a bit of weight, etc., the breast shape changes. Most women I know in their 40's and 50's wouldn't dare bare tier breasts simply because their breasts don't look at all like society pretends they should. If women bared their chests men would finally see they don't really look like all the boobs in their magazines and porn movies, and that they look a lot more like the breasts you see in National Geographic. As a woman, I don't have a false sense of what boobs should look like, and I don't consider them sexual. I know that they are meant for feeding babies, nothing more. I'm appalled at the women in this thread who want to fight to keep breasts covered, and think you ladies are most definitely part of the problem with our over sexualization of women and children. I have no desire to bare my breasts, but if I wanted to I certainly wouldn't let some woman with a false sense of modesty tell me I can't. I imagine the group of women on this thread who think it's so awful are also the stuffy kind who would tell a nursing mother to cover up. God forbid you see her sexy breasts, after all!

Please stop speaking for "most" women, because as a woman, I disagree with your opinion completely. You may sexualize breasts...I don't. Breasts are no more sexual to me than a carton of milk. Many women I know hate their breasts because they don't look anything like what society thinks they should look like. I know one person who's had an augmentation for the purpose of enlarging them to look sexy, and at least 6 who have breast reductions to remove the excess due to back pain and being uncomfortable. People like you just contribute to an unnatural and unrealistic idea of what society expects breasts to look like.

First, I suggest you to read my comment again and get the whole point of that.  
Second, there is always agreement and disagreement with an opinion. It does not bother me. You can fight for nudity in society as the name of equality, which I do not agree, or you can use your time and energy to fight for real equality issues.  
Third, I wrote most women who wants to show her breast, know that it us sexy. I did not talk about all women. I do not see our breast as a carton of milk, and I am sure most men do not think it as a carton of milk either, even if they are in perfect shape.  
 
Edited by Deb1, 2015-06-27 08:53:43

Reading all of the comments I am beginning to think that one of the major problems is that everyone is fighting to desexualize women and breasts - why? Women and men are sexual beings, it is part of our nature so why should we deny it?  
 
Perhaps instead of trying to desexualize ourselves we should be teaching women to embrace their sexuality and not see it as a weakness or something that makes us inferior to men. We can be equal and still sexual.  
 
I stand second to none to any man but you know what - my breasts are sexual and I love that. I love pretty bras, I love showing cleavage out on a date, and if I went topless and my husband didn't look at my breasts, I would be horrified.  
 
Everyone wants to pretend that men and women's chests are the same - they are not but if we keep fighting for it and eventually get to be looked at the same - where is the fun in that?  
 
People need to stop equating equality with sameness and start embracing what makes them special.  
 

Wth are you talking about? Nobody is trying to desexualizing women, and for you to suggest that is just ridiculous. We are talking about breasts here, not women as a whole. While yes, our society as a whole does sexualize a women's breasts, a women's breasts do not define her sexuality! You would be "horrified" if your husband didn't find your breasts sexy? What about women who've had mastectomies and no longer have breasts? They must not be the least bit sexy anymore, since breasts define a woman's sexuality, according to you? Just because you put so much stock in a certain image to define sexiness doesn't mean everyone else is as vain or shallow.  
 
This is also not about trying to prove men and women aren't different. Nobody has said that anywhere, so why argue a point nobody has made? Women have boobs and men don't. That's very different, nobody has argued otherwise. Women have boobs for the sole purpose of feeding babies. Some people find boobs sexy, some people don't. Some women love them, some women don't. Some women have them, some women don't. Quit trying to force people to see them the way you do. If a woman wants to take her top off in a hot summer's day at the beach, whether they are perky or hanging to her waist, what business is it of yours? You want them to hide so that your children don't get a true view of what breasts actually look like as nature takes it's course?  
 
This is not about desexualizing women. This is about empowering them to do what THEY are comfortable with, not what YOU are comfortable with.

Opinionated said "Wth are you talking about? Nobody is trying to desexualizing women, and for you to suggest that is just ridiculous. We are talking about breasts here, not women as a whole. While yes, our society as a whole does sexualize a women's breasts, a women's breasts do not define her sexuality! You would be "horrified" if your husband didn't find your breasts sexy? What about women who've had mastectomies and no longer have breasts? They must not be the least bit sexy anymore, since breasts define a woman's sexuality, according to you? Just because you put so much stock in a certain image to define sexiness doesn't mean everyone else is as vain or shallow.     This is also not about trying to prove men and women aren't different. Nobody has said that anywhere, so why argue a point nobody has made? Women have boobs and men don't. That's very different, nobody has argued otherwise. Women have boobs for the sole purpose of feeding babies. Some people find boobs sexy, some people don't. Some women love them, some women don't. Some women have them, some women don't. Quit trying to force people to see them the way you do. If a woman wants to take her top off in a hot summer's day at the beach, whether they are perky or hanging to her waist, what business is it of yours? You want them to hide so that your children don't get a true view of what breasts actually look like as nature takes it's course?     This is not about desexualizing women. This is about empowering them to do what THEY are comfortable with, not what YOU are comfortable with. "

Yes people are arguing for the desexualization of women and their breasts. Yes some women don't have any, that doesn't mean we change everything we do - there are always exceptions. And yes, if my husband looked at my chest the same way he does some guys on the beach, seeing no difference, I would not be happy because my breasts are a part of me and my sexuality and I am not afraid to admit it, nor will I be made to feel inferior or that I am setting women back centuries by not demanding to be treated like a man.  
 
I am not uncomfortable with women baring their breasts - when did I ever say that? Show your boobs, I don't care, just don't think that by doing so you are doing anything to create equality among men and women, we are already equal regardless of whether you have a top on or not.  
 
And the comment that breasts are for the sole purpose of nursing is ridiculous, they are part and parcel of our sexuality, by denying it, you aren't creating equality, you are minimizing your position. We have sexual breasts - big deal, only people demanding that they are not sexual create an issue.

Opinions by some posters on here are being defended as if they were personally affected and it was their daughter that took off her shirt and told to put it back on.

Butterflymbca said "Reading all of the comments I am beginning to think that one of the major problems is that everyone is fighting to desexualize women and breasts - why? Women and men are sexual beings, it is part of our nature so why should we deny it?     Perhaps instead of trying to desexualize ourselves we should be teaching women to embrace their sexuality and not see it as a weakness or something that makes us inferior to men. We can be equal and still sexual.     I stand second to none to any man but you know what - my breasts are sexual and I love that. I love pretty bras, I love showing cleavage out on a date, and if I went topless and my husband didn't look at my breasts, I would be horrified.     Everyone wants to pretend that men and women's chests are the same - they are not but if we keep fighting for it and eventually get to be looked at the same - where is the fun in that?     People need to stop equating equality with sameness and start embracing what makes them special.     "

right now perky beasts are sexual but just because i think it is fine to be equal doesnt mean that some people wont still find perky breasts sexual, just like a built guy who takes his shirt off will get looks and girls going googoo over his pecks, the nice looking girls would still get attention and the ones who rather not show what they have will wear tops are bras to hold them in place, whatever they are comfortable with BUUUT girls of all ages wouldnt become as big of a deal and in the situation in the article the girl would not be the one pressured to be any different then she is, obviously she was raised not to care and while i agree there are bigger issues about equality then toplessness i do think that these types of differences need to disappear in order to fix many of the other issues  
 
different can be equal but i dont have to be different to be a woman because EVERYONE is different

How many of you strong independent women ready to demand your equal rights and prove that you can and will bare your non-sexualized breasts anywhere a man can will be going topless this summer?  
 
According to so many supporters all of the Brandon pools and surrounding beaches should be full of liberated topless women this summer.

Butterflymbca said "How many of you strong independent women ready to demand your equal rights and prove that you can and will bare your non-sexualized breasts anywhere a man can will be going topless this summer?     According to so many supporters all of the Brandon pools and surrounding beaches should be full of liberated topless women this summer. "

The only reason I don't is because of the hassle I would get from uptight people. I have bared my breasts at many beaches, including in Canada - and Manitoba. I still do, and I'm in my 50s. I have also brought my children to clothing optional beaches. They are given the freedom to do as they choose. My daughter was about 9 when she became body conscious, which is normal. She chose to put on a bathing suit.  
 
You need to get out of Rivers more.

on-second-thought said "    Butterflymbca said "How many of you strong independent women ready to demand your equal rights and prove that you can and will bare your non-sexualized breasts anywhere a man can will be going topless this summer?     According to so many supporters all of the Brandon pools and surrounding beaches should be full of liberated topless women this summer. " The only reason I don't is because of the hassle I would get from uptight people. I have bared my breasts at many beaches, including in Canada - and Manitoba. I still do, and I'm in my 50s. I have also brought my children to clothing optional beaches. They are given the freedom to do as they choose. My daughter was about 9 when she became body conscious, which is normal. She chose to put on a bathing suit.     You need to get out of Rivers more. "

that is also the reason i dont but where i find it appropriate (other countries, clothing optional beaches) i have  
 
our house is fairly nudist too so i know my family would be comfortable going into a wading pool without tops, especially the children who dont even know the public pressure to cover up because of sexuality

 
Anyone who sexualizes an 8 year old without a top needs to look inward.  
 
I grew up in a large, religious, and rather conservative family. We are all comfortable in our skin, both genders. My brother was out visiting last year and hopped into the hot tun with me, sans clothing. My husband and I talked about it afterwards, he was trying to wrap his head around how comfortable me and my sibling were with nudity. He has seen us disrobe on more occasions than he would like I think part of it comes from being raised in a large (10 kids) family. While there was an expectation of privacy, that didn't always work out. It was difficult to avoid seeing a sibling naked, especially since we had our own beach. Heck, I remember dad yelling "streak" as he exited the bathroom and did the naked run to the bedroom. That upbringing has definitely coloured my opinion of nudity, and I am glad for it.  
 
Edited by on-second-thought, 2015-06-27 13:04:52

Enjoyed your comment, chuckled all the way through. Our upbringing does play a part, but so does our understanding of individual rights, I'm not comfortable being nude but if others wish to do their own thing, well I can live with it.

I agree, and if you come to my house for a hot tub, I will not expect you to go au natural  
 
Seriously though, we all have our own level of comfort when it comes to nudity, and I respect others choices. I wouldn't go topless at a family beach where there was an expectation that people would be clothed.  
 
This was an eight year old girl that was told to cover up. She wasn't being sexual, others put that on her. Thats really sad.  
 
I am sure this discussion has been had many times, with many generations. Imagine if our grandmothers would have stepped out on the beach in a sting bikini, or a G string.

I actually travel extensively and my manner if dress always changes to reflect the social norms of where I am although I don't go topless because it isn't my thing, U could care less if others do in places that are conditioned to it.  
 
My issue with this story is exactly for the reasons you said, you don't go topless here because it is not a cultural norm so as an adult you don't just to avoid the hassle of standing out.  
 
I would have no issue with an 8 year old topless girl at a clothing optional pool where there were others and it was socially acceptable to do so.  
 
But to put a child in a position that adults would avoid such as thus, is not the way to move ahead or change society. Let adults be put in that position.

 
Who put the child in the position??? The child was playing and took her top off to swim. No biggie.  
 
I find it very very sad that a woman, who by all accounts is intelligent, cant connect the dots when it comes to the sexualization of childrens bodies. It's not cool to shame an 8 year old girl into covering herself, and its not cool to glorify the breast to the point of harm. Every day we have women and girls that are made to feel lesser because they cant live up to the unrealistic expectation of what our bodies should look like. You cant turn on a TV or open a magazine without seeing breast glorification.  
 
What harm does this do? Not only does it shame people who have had mastectomies, or are born with breast defects but beyond that it can cause debilitating body image problems for girls that don't measure up. This bizarre message were sending results in young girls hating the breasts on their own, unique bodies. Lots undergo hazardous cosmetic surgery to conform to some unrealistic and superficial standard.  
 
We are also cramming out tatas into tight fitting contraptions that confine and hurt and may be harmful as well. Am I willing to restrict my lymphatic systems for a little cleavage to impress my hubby? Nope, and he would never expect it.  
 
If you dont want to go topless, thats your choice and it should be respected, but this child did nothing wrong. It was legal, and if she stood on the other side of the fence there would have been no recourse.  
 
I for one am glad that the City of Guelph has decided not to enforce this rule.  
 
 
 
 
 
 
Edited by on-second-thought, 2015-06-27 15:42:20

Nrdberg - I have asked this before but at what point to we start saying that girls and boys chests are different? My 9 year old is starting to develop, there was a girl in her grade 2 class that was needing a training bra at 7. Age alone cannot determine development so if we say 8 is ok, but some 8 year olds are developed - is that ok too? Where is the line drawn?  
 
And if telling a girl to put on a shirt when all the other girls have shirts on is demoralizing and shaming her than we as a society have because so easily traumatized and soft I fear for our future.  

Considering your view on breasts, I assume you believe all breast feeding women should be covered at all times if breast feeding in public?

In the past 21 years O have breastfed 4 children, for a year each.  
 
I have nursed everywhere and anywhere and yet never had the need to bare my breasts in public. Discretion is not difficult and I practiced it not because I am ashamed of my body or for whatever I will be accused of but because I believe that women's breasts are sexual and even when nourishing my children I had no need to share my body with others.  
 
Nordberg, if I saw an eight year old girl topless at a public pool, I would have a problem with it.

Public opinion[edit]  
 
A 1992 poll showed that 62% of Canadians were opposed to women having topfreedom, with women being more likely to be opposed.[20] A more detailed survey was undertaken in 1998,[21] and a detailed analysis was published by Fischtein and colleagues in 2005 (Fischtein et al. 2005). This showed context to be important, for instance 72% were opposed to being topless on a city street, 62% in parks, but only 48% on beaches. In all cases women were more opposed to toplessness.  
 
Organizations[edit]  
 
Topfree Equal Rights Association[edit]  
 
The Canadian Topfree Equal Rights Association (TERA) assists women in both Canada and the United States who are prosecuted for being topless in situations whereas men are not.[22] It does not advocate toplessness, but promotes the concept of freedom of choice of the individual woman, and the de-sexualisation of breasts.[23]  
 
The above was pasted from Wikipedia on Top Freedom.  
 
So now here's my stance on the subject. Females of any age and ethnic background should have the right to be topless in those areas where it is deemed acceptable.  
 
First of all, why the distinction between men and women? There are a lot of trans gender people out there, a couple of them I dearly call my friends. The wording should state that the law accepts topless adults (of any gender) in appropriate places.  
 
Now with the understanding that I fully support the right for ALL adults to bare their chest as they see fit within the constraints of the law, that still doesn't mean I agree with it, and it also doesn't mean I think the law should include children at this point in time.  
 
In time, if this forward thinking movement of topless nudity is practiced and becomes commonplace then I will be all for all children also bearing the right under the law to topless nudity. But not now. Yes this would be excluding girls for the time being, but I think it's important to do so right now. This is, however, discrimination against girls and I realize it won't hold in a court of law and that for all intents and purposes if the law agrees that all adults should have the right to toplessness in certain situations and places then the children should also have that right. But just as I don't agree that women should exercise their right to toplessness, I also hope that parents would use extreme caution if allowing their children to be topless in a public place. There are very real concerns of possible bullying, teasing, taunting, and abuse. Right now cyber bullying is so problematic for adolescents and there are so many kids committing suicide over the littlest things that truly shouldn't matter. Bullying is very real, and can have very devastating effects. Do we really want to add fuel to the fire? It's not common for girls to be topless in today's society so my guess is that any girls practicing this would be open to all kinds of ridicule, teasing and bullying. What parent would ever take a chance of bringing such things on their little girl?  
 
The 8 year old in question, unless she does not have the mental capacity to understand, should realize that other girls around her age do wear tops in the swimming pool, and I would wager that most 8 year old girls would not want to be the only girl in a pool without a top for fear of being teased about it. Teasing and bullying shouldn't happen, but it does happen.  
 
The parents of this 8 year old girl I assume live in our society. I don't think they were from another country and just on vacation here. So they are fully aware that being topless is not common practice. I condemn them, as the adults in this situation that fully know and comprehend what the consequences could be, to still allow their little girl to be topless in the pool. And to further put their little girl in jeopardy by making such a big deal about the situation as to even take it to the media. I really feel for this child. She's going to be the brunt of countless jokes and ridicule for years because her parents made such a stink about it. They were in the wrong to do this. And I believe these parents took their girl to the pool that day without a swimsuit top, because they had an agenda. I believe they did it not simply to just let their child cool off in the pool, but to instigate an equality argument and gain their moment in the limelight. If that's the case they were so very wrong, and their child is the one that will suffer the consequences of their thoughtlessness.  
 
In time every human should bear the legal right to be topless in those situations and places deemed appropriate. But I don't think that time is now, not for children. And I don't even think women or girls should exercise that right.  
 
And really, why stop at the top? What's wrong with full body public nudity? The body in and of itself should not be deemed sexual unless in an actual sexual act or displaying oneself in a sexual manner. But again, all in due time in the future. Not. Right. Now. This society is so far away from being ready for such a thing.

Nordberg said "    GreenDragon said "Public opinion[edit]     A 1992 poll showed that 62% of Canadians were opposed to women having topfreedom, with women being more likely to be opposed.[20] A more detailed survey was undertaken in 1998,[21] and a detailed analysis was published by Fischtein and colleagues in 2005 (Fischtein et al. 2005). This showed context to be important, for instance 72% were opposed to being topless on a city street, 62% in parks, but only 48% on beaches. In all cases women were more opposed to toplessness.     Organizations[edit]     Topfree Equal Rights Association[edit]     The Canadian Topfree Equal Rights Association (TERA) assists women in both Canada and the United States who are prosecuted for being topless in situations whereas men are not.[22] It does not advocate toplessness, but promotes the concept of freedom of choice of the individual woman, and the de-sexualisation of breasts.[23]     The above was pasted from Wikipedia on Top Freedom.     So now here's my stance on the subject. Females of any age and ethnic background should have the right to be topless in those areas where it is deemed acceptable.     First of all, why the distinction between men and women? There are a lot of trans gender people out there, a couple of them I dearly call my friends. The wording should state that the law accepts topless adults (of any gender) in appropriate places.     Now with the understanding that I fully support the right for ALL adults to bare their chest as they see fit within the constraints of the law, that still doesn't mean I agree with it, and it also doesn't mean I think the law should include children at this point in time.     In time, if this forward thinking movement of topless nudity is practiced and becomes commonplace then I will be all for all children also bearing the right under the law to topless nudity. But not now. Yes this would be excluding girls for the time being, but I think it's important to do so right now. This is, however, discrimination against girls and I realize it won't hold in a court of law and that for all intents and purposes if the law agrees that all adults should have the right to toplessness in certain situations and places then the children should also have that right. But just as I don't agree that women should exercise their right to toplessness, I also hope that parents would use extreme caution if allowing their children to be topless in a public place. There are very real concerns of possible bullying, teasing, taunting, and abuse. Right now cyber bullying is so problematic for adolescents and there are so many kids committing suicide over the littlest things that truly shouldn't matter. Bullying is very real, and can have very devastating effects. Do we really want to add fuel to the fire? It's not common for girls to be topless in today's society so my guess is that any girls practicing this would be open to all kinds of ridicule, teasing and bullying. What parent would ever take a chance of bringing such things on their little girl?     The 8 year old in question, unless she does not have the mental capacity to understand, should realize that other girls around her age do wear tops in the swimming pool, and I would wager that most 8 year old girls would not want to be the only girl in a pool without a top for fear of being teased about it. Teasing and bullying shouldn't happen, but it does happen.     The parents of this 8 year old girl I assume live in our society. I don't think they were from another country and just on vacation here. So they are fully aware that being topless is not common practice. I condemn them, as the adults in this situation that fully know and comprehend what the consequences could be, to still allow their little girl to be topless in the pool. And to further put their little girl in jeopardy by making such a big deal about the situation as to even take it to the media. I really feel for this child. She's going to be the brunt of countless jokes and ridicule for years because her parents made such a stink about it. They were in the wrong to do this. And I believe these parents took their girl to the pool that day without a swimsuit top, because they had an agenda. I believe they did it not simply to just let their child cool off in the pool, but to instigate an equality argument and gain their moment in the limelight. If that's the case they were so very wrong, and their child is the one that will suffer the consequences of their thoughtlessness.     In time every human should bear the legal right to be topless in those situations and places deemed appropriate. But I don't think that time is now, not for children. And I don't even think women or girls should exercise that right.     And really, why stop at the top? What's wrong with full body public nudity? The body in and of itself should not be deemed sexual unless in an actual sexual act or displaying oneself in a sexual manner. But again, all in due time in the future. Not. Right. Now. This society is so far away from being ready for such a thing. " You condemn them?     That's really what this comes down to, you have made a moral judgement on these parents for advocating for their daughter.     She didn't have an issue going in without her top. They didn't have an issue with her going in without her top. Her top looks exactly the same as her brothers. Had the city worker not intervened, nobody would have noticed. The city worker had no legal right, in fact was barred legally from intervening.     Let me break this down for you.     Had the City of Guelph obeyed the law, this little girl would have been left alone. You go on about her parents, yet they did nothing wrong. You go on about how she was uncovered, yet she did nothing wrong. The City of Guelph broke the law, the City of Guelph did something wrong.     If the City of Brandon broke the law and made my kid cry, I'd make an issue of it too. Governments are supposed to uphold the law, not break it.     As for those studies, real studies this time, I'm sure that all of the participants when asked the question about women's breasts were thinking of adult women with adult women's breasts. While indeed pertinent to part of this conversation, not really applicable to a child that doesn't yet have breasts.     And that's the crux. I just don't understand why you have gotten so upset about a child baring a part of her body that looks the same as 99.9% of children her age, 50% of who traditionally go without tops. You insist on sexualizing something that not even nature has gotten around to affecting yet. You see breasts, I see a non-descript chest: not that I'd give her more than a passing glance. I don't understand why, if you had been at that park, why you would be so fixated on an 8 year old stranger's chest. So much so, that you would probably approach her parents.     I don't understand why it is your business.   "

..And I have given mine, Dear Liza.  
 
It's not about sexualizing that 8 year old girl. It's about the consequences she faces, especially since her parents took it to the media. You haven't even begun to think about the after effects of all this on that poor girl. You're for some reason fixated on this idea that everyone is sexualizing a child when that doesn't even begin to encompass what this is truly all about. I suggest you read my post again, rather than gloss over it.