Discussions

Butterflymbca said "It is not about victim blaming - it is about being a responsible parent. Girls of any age going topless are not teh norm in our society. So any girl doing so will stand out and become a spectacle. Why would you do that to your child just to validate a political view?     Are women's breasts be sexualized? A billion dollars a year at Victoria's Secret says yes, regardless of what any court says. You can argue that they shouldn't be, that society should be better, that men shouldn't see women that way all you want but I will keep my should arguments for an online debate and not put my child in the center of it. "

As a parent I would constantly encourage my daughter to have some modesty and not encourage someone's attention. I also think the father is grandstanding for his moment of fame. I wonder if he would post a picture on facebook of his shirtless daughter seeing how he feels so secure in allowing her to run around in a public place half naked.I wonder also what he is teaching her for the future. I guess one of the lessons is that they are above the rules, no wonder kids have trouble following them when their parents can't. Notice I said rules, not laws.  
 
Edited by Daphne, 2015-06-24 16:28:11

Butterflymbca said "It is not about victim blaming - it is about being a responsible parent. Girls of any age going topless are not teh norm in our society. So any girl doing so will stand out and become a spectacle. Why would you do that to your child just to validate a political view?     Are women's breasts be sexualized? A billion dollars a year at Victoria's Secret says yes, regardless of what any court says. You can argue that they shouldn't be, that society should be better, that men shouldn't see women that way all you want but I will keep my should arguments for an online debate and not put my child in the center of it. "

you are right

Nordberg said "    GreenDragon said "Leave the equality argument for another instance, this is about safety! Think about it, if girls are allowed to go topless at a public swimming pool, the wrong sort of people are going to become attracted to that location. Do you really want to encourage predators to hang around the public pool endangering all the children there?? If you want your little girl to expose a part of her body that is known to be sexualized, go for it, but do it in the private, not a public location where you can endanger not only your own child but other children there as well. " I do not understand how you folks cannot get it through your head that a pedophile is a deviant creature, and it is most likely not going to change their actions if a young girl is wearing a top or not.     It has been shown that these particular criminals go after those who they perceive as vulnerable. I worry that in this case, the marginalization of this girl, she thought that she did something wrong, that she was in trouble, could cause the sort of emotional disturbance that would make her more of a target of that which you are trying to avoid.     Ironically, you are all concerned about these pedophiles sexualizing 8 year olds, when you are all sexualizing 8 year olds.     And what about the pedophile that's already there looking at them with their tops on? Using your logic, we should dress all 8 year old girls in burkas. The pedophile is the problem, why punish the child? Some pedophiles like boys, so let's make them cover up too.     And all of this because of a scourge of pedophiles that doesn't actually exist. These wastes of human skin are no more prevalent now than they were in years past. I'd argue that they are less prevalent now because we are actually looking for them.     Not to mention that if your hypothetical pool existed where 8 year olds regularly went dressed how they wanted, it would be normalized and no-one would think any different of it.     When its all said and done, the chance of their even being a pedophile is extremely low, yet the chance of the solution causing actual mental damage is significant.     =====================     As for the person calling this rule a law. It is not a law, it is an illegal rule. The rule is against the law.     =====================     This entire debate is because for some reason a bunch of adults feel uncomfortable seeing an eight year old without a top. STOP SEXUALIZING 8 YEAR OLDS! It's a little creepy, ironically creepy.     This whole thing about safety is a red herring, it isn't relevant. "

Hmm if you were a pedo which pool would you hang around, the pool where children are clothed, or the pool where children are unclothed? One reason people wear clothes is to minimize rape and abduction by not tempting a predator. Enough bad things happen to children as it is, it would be ten times worse if we tempted fate by letting them run around unclothed. Children are innocent, they don't know the dangers in our society that they could fall victim to. The parents are the ones that assume responsibility. Bad people exist in our world and we need to safeguard the innocent children from harm, in every way that we can. If you want to take a chance with your children, you go ahead, but remove your children's clothing away from a public place where other children frequent so that you're not attracting the wrong sorts to the area where other innocent children could become endangered.

<:A target="_blank" HREF="<:A target="_blank" HREF="http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/5692029-guelph-councillors-open-to-revisiting-topless-swimming-pool-policy-in-wake-of-controversy/">:http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/5692029-guelph-councillors-open-to-revisiting-topless-swimming-pool-policy-in-wake-of-controversy/<:/A>:">:http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/5692029-guelph-councillors-open-to-revisiting-topless-swimming-pool-policy-in-wake-of-controversy/">:http://www.guelphmercury.com/news-story/5692029-guelph-councillors-open-to-revisiting-topless-swimming-pool-policy-in-wake-of-controversy/<:/A>:<:/A>:  
 
Looks like the city may revisit the policy that requires swim tops. Legit, enforceable or not, the city has a policy in place regarding swim attire. Therefore, the "proper channels" would be to contact the city and advise them that their posted policy was not legally enforceable instead of resorting to public spectacle and grandstanding.  
 
 
 
Edited by CommonTater, 2015-06-24 18:16:12

In a perfect world we could all run around unclothed and nothing bad would ever happen. But you're being naïve to think that you have some sort of right to dress or undress at will and nothing bad would ever happen. I agree that kids should not be victimized for what they wear or do not wear, but they are regardless. Why do you think there are so many articles out there informing parents not to post pictures of their children on social media, and to be careful who babysits them, and not to let your small children get out of site in stores. Out of all the child abductions that have occurred, how many of those children were sexually molested as a result? I don't have a specific number to give you, but you know as well as I that the number is large. I should be able to walk through downtown Brandon at 11pm wearing a mini skirt if I so wish and have nothing bad happen to me, but you know what? Chances are something bad would happen to me. I'd have a better chance staying safe if I put on less revealing clothes. Same goes for children, sure we'd like to think that nobody would hurt our children, but there's a lot of strange people out there that would. Why tempt them?

Breasts are sexual. They're not only sexual but they are sometimes. Just the way it is IMO. I cover my sexual parts when in public. I don't understand why it's such a big deal? Is it just because boys can? Because other countries do? (Which is funny to me because how often do we hear "well if you don't like the way Canada does it, go back home"...if you want a nude beach go to Europe then ;) lol )  
 
I think there's a time and place for everything. I also think if there was a topless girl or girls at the local pools and beaches, there would be a lot of people who thought it was inappropriate and you can bet there would be an ebrandon thread about it! Lol  
 
As far as pedophiles, I agree they will be that regardless but why dangle the bait? As an adult you are fully capable of making your own choices ...children are not. Why would you not do your best to protect them from the evils of the world when you could?  
 
What is the reason for wanting your daughter to go topless?  
 

Male children are just as likely to be victimized by pedophiles as female children, yet there seems to be no outcry about them covering up/wearing shirts while swimming.

For all those suggesting girls should cover up because of lurking pedophiles....what about pedophiles who are after young boys? Is it a matter of people don't care as much if boys are at risk, or do people somehow think only girls are at risk? If the issue is pedophiles, should ALL children not be covered at all times?

I don't think it's appropriate for people in general, of any age, to expose the parts of them that are affected by puberty. That's asking for trouble.

Tamara79 said "Male children are just as likely to be victimized by pedophiles as female children, yet there seems to be no outcry about them covering up/wearing shirts while swimming. "

It's about sexual parts. Females have sexual top and bottom areas whereas males have sexual bottom areas.  
 
Like I've said before, male and female bodies are different. Just the way it is  
 

most child are sexually assaulted by someone they know so i dont think an 8 year old wearing a top is going to stop pedophiles  
 
if covering up is supposed to stop rape why do we allow bikinis? why dont we all wear clothes up to our neck? skirts down past our knees? because then its the eyes hair and ankles that become sexual, my point is there is always a line somewhere and i think the line is changing

I don't think it will stop pedophiles. I don't think anyone said that actually. However, I'm not going to make it easier for them either.  
 
Another concern of mine would be people taking pictures. Nowadays, people post pics of other peoples children and I wouldn't want pictures of my topless child floating around social media. It's just not something I'd feel comfortable with and I don't think that's a bad thing.  
 
I'm a victim myself of child molestation and I would do what I could to prevent my child from becoming a victim as well. This means covering up sexual areas that others don't need to see.  
 
I still have not read a reason for why parents would want their daughters going topless. What is the benefit?  
 
 
 
 

If you wish to undress your children and expose them to people that are viewing those children with very bad intentions, go ahead, though I think it's asking for trouble. My daughter sure won't be exposing her breasts in public. I couldn't imagine all the eyes that may fall on her, take photo's and video's of her, and have inappropriate thoughts about her that they may not have had, had she wore a top. I don't think any boy should expose the parts of their body that are affected by puberty either. There's just too many sicko's out there that would take advantage of children with their sexual parts exposed.

why would girls want to go topless? same reason guys do, convenience, heat ect  
 
 
btw a guys pecks are sexual too...if they are nice looking that is lol so same could be said for boys yet we don not put the same pressure on them to be modest or to protect boys from predators, why not?

traveller said "why would girls want to go topless? same reason guys do, convenience, heat ect       btw a guys pecks are sexual too...if they are nice looking that is lol so same could be said for boys yet we don not put the same pressure on them to be modest or to protect boys from predators, why not? "

Depends on your family I guess. Many of the boys and men in my family wear shirts.  
 

Nordberg said "    sammy said "Breasts are sexual. They're not only sexual but they are sometimes. Just the way it is IMO. I cover my sexual parts when in public. I don't understand why it's such a big deal? Is it just because boys can? Because other countries do? (Which is funny to me because how often do we hear "well if you don't like the way Canada does it, go back home"...if you want a nude beach go to Europe then ;) lol )     I think there's a time and place for everything. I also think if there was a topless girl or girls at the local pools and beaches, there would be a lot of people who thought it was inappropriate and you can bet there would be an ebrandon thread about it! Lol     As far as pedophiles, I agree they will be that regardless but why dangle the bait? As an adult you are fully capable of making your own choices ...children are not. Why would you not do your best to protect them from the evils of the world when you could?     What is the reason for wanting your daughter to go topless?     " I don't WANT anyone's daughter to go topless. Are you trying to imply something? Shame if you are.     What I want is for people , of any age, not to be harassed when they are acting within the law. Pretty simple concept.     I don't have a daughter, I have sons. After this thread I'm considering making them wear full body suits... you know, just in case. I do have a wife however, and if anyone told her not to do something completely lawful that she wanted to do... I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of her tirade.     I'm done commenting on this, I've said my piece, and I know from a legal standpoint I'm right... at least according to the judges who actually get to decide this sort of thing.   "

Am I implying something...heck no! I just want a reason from someone who thinks topless young girls is okay to give me a reason as to why?? I don't agree/like the reason "because boys can"... Boys and girls are different IMO. As a parent, can you say you'd be comfortable at the beach with your topless 14 year old daughter? What if your son or daughter wants to go pants less ...that's allowed on some beaches.  
 
I don't care if it's allowed or not...I will be teaching my daughter modesty and to keep certain areas covered when in mixed company and/or in public. The world is a different place now and pictures of your nude child (boy or girl) can make it's way online. If you're okay with that, that's your choice and all the power to ya! I however will not allow that until they are of age and can make that choice themselves and understand the consequences that may come with that choice

the only reason men and women's bodys are different really is because we see them that way and that argument is no different then just saying boys get too, if you think about it it is the adults teaching the sexulization of females more then males by these very attitudes  
 
if we let children be natural more of us would find it completely acceptable to go around topless or naked as many children want too, being modest and what that means is a taught behavior not something found in young children, so why do we do that to girls and not boys? pedophiles pray on both  
 
and yes i have and do let my child go topless and naked in places where its allowed and i have gone topless too at beaches ect.

This is ridiculous.  
 
A developed 14 year old and an 8 year old child are completely different. So stop that argument.  
 
I don't quite understand the concern about a photo of the topless child appearing online? If you're referring to it being used for child pornography do you somehow think a pedophile taking a photo of a topless boy or a girl in a bikini to be used for child porn is less disturbing? Child porn is child porn, and as stated many times in this thread a shirt doesn't stop a pedophile.  
 
It's just a child at a splash park cooling off. She's not inviting anything. If you have a problem with it, then it's your problem. Not the child's.  
 

GreenDragon said "I don't think it's appropriate for people in general, of any age, to expose the parts of them that are affected by puberty. That's asking for trouble. "

Don't want the pedophiles to see that he doesn't have a beard yet.

dueindecember said "This is ridiculous.     A developed 14 year old and an 8 year old child are completely different. So stop that argument.     I don't quite understand the concern about a photo of the topless child appearing online? If you're referring to it being used for child pornography do you somehow think a pedophile taking a photo of a topless boy or a girl in a bikini to be used for child porn is less disturbing? Child porn is child porn, and as stated many times in this thread a shirt doesn't stop a pedophile.     It's just a child at a splash park cooling off. She's not inviting anything. If you have a problem with it, then it's your problem. Not the child's.     "

So at what age does your daughter stop going topless? If it's okay at 8 years old why not 14?  
 

So what if even after she starts to develop she doesn't feel the need to cover up because she has been allowed to go topless up until that point?  
 
As a parent I feel it is very important to teach my daughter to respect her body and to keep private areas private -starting at a young age. At 4 yrs old an older boy laughed at her once because he saw her panties while she was wearing a dress. It was a long time until I could get her to wear a dress without shorts underneath. These parents should be happy it was just the lifeguards asking to cover up that caused her to feel self conscious. How would she have felt if it was other kids teasing her? Kids can be cruel - why put your child in this situation to start with.  
 
Just my 2 cents.

The way that so many in this thread are playing into the stereotypical norms of rape culture is absolutely staggering.  
 
Never EVER should anyone hear of a child (or adult or ANYONE) being sexually assaulted and immediately ask, "but what was he/she wearing?" ... "was he/she asking for it?" ...  
 
If anyone is sexually assaulted the blame is solely on the one who was unable to control their impulses due to the fact that they obviously have a mental illness.  
 
With points of view like this it is unfortunately obvious why so many suffer in silence rather than face their attacker and take the risk of being blamed and ridiculed for being a victim of someone else's sick and twisted urges. Thus allowing the attacker to continue their predatory ways.  
 
A pre-pubescent child, that above the waist looks like every other pre-pubescent child, was JUST being a kid and should inspire no thought other than that.  
 
And remember to always follow your instincts. Should you see something out of place or see anyone suspicious around children, CALL THE POLICE.

You never disappoint. I first read about this story on a news website and all the comments were highly intelligent, no matter what side of the matter people were on. Then I come on here... Here's a simple answer: There are rules at public swimming pools/spray parks. Don't want to follow them? Then don't use the public swimming pools and spray parks! I don't see the intent of the pool to shame this close-to-development girl: it is more of a protective action because they realize there are sick perverts out there and they don't want to put the child at risk. They are handling the one part of the equation they have some control over. Perverts don't walk around in a crowd with a sign strapped to them letting us know what they are. They can look just like everyone else and go unnoticed. Topless eight year old girl? Much easier to spot.

Nikkol said "The way that so many in this thread are playing into the stereotypical norms of rape culture is absolutely staggering.     Never EVER should anyone hear of a child (or adult or ANYONE) being sexually assaulted and immediately ask, "but what was he/she wearing?" ... "was he/she asking for it?" ...     If anyone is sexually assaulted the blame is solely on the one who was unable to control their impulses due to the fact that they obviously have a mental illness.     With points of view like this it is unfortunately obvious why so many suffer in silence rather than face their attacker and take the risk of being blamed and ridiculed for being a victim of someone else's sick and twisted urges. Thus allowing the attacker to continue their predatory ways.     A pre-pubescent child, that above the waist looks like every other pre-pubescent child, was JUST being a kid and should inspire no thought other than that.     And remember to always follow your instincts. Should you see something out of place or see anyone suspicious around children, CALL THE POLICE. "

We wouldn't have to worry about predators, because they wouldn't exist. But reality is they are out there and chances are they're going to prey on those that attract their attention, such as a girl at a pool not wearing a top versus a girl at the pool wearing a top. Sure a predator could very well prey on the girl wearing the top, however, I think the chances are higher that the girl not wearing the top would be singled out first. These are children that can't make informed decisions on their own, we the adults need to decide what's best for them and in today's world, though it sucks that we have to, I do feel it's best for their safety to be covered up so as to not attract attention from the wrong sort. If an adult wants to walk around nude that is their choice and I have no issue with that as they are fully aware of anything that could happen, children are innocent and don't understand these things.

Obviously in Canada the law is that you cannot discriminate against ethnicity, gender, age etc. Yet that's exactly what most of you are doing.  
If you don't want you're child topless male or female then govern accordingly but to say that other children or even adult's can't do something that is lawful is a far cry. Old fashioned or not humans are humans and a fat mans breasts look very similar to a woman's, should he cover up and basically be harassed because he has extra weight?  
A predator is a predator and doesn't matter if its a girl or boy because there are predators for both sex's, so that argument is null.

Nordberg said "    GreenDragon said "    Nikkol said "The way that so many in this thread are playing into the stereotypical norms of rape culture is absolutely staggering.     Never EVER should anyone hear of a child (or adult or ANYONE) being sexually assaulted and immediately ask, "but what was he/she wearing?" ... "was he/she asking for it?" ...     If anyone is sexually assaulted the blame is solely on the one who was unable to control their impulses due to the fact that they obviously have a mental illness.     With points of view like this it is unfortunately obvious why so many suffer in silence rather than face their attacker and take the risk of being blamed and ridiculed for being a victim of someone else's sick and twisted urges. Thus allowing the attacker to continue their predatory ways.     A pre-pubescent child, that above the waist looks like every other pre-pubescent child, was JUST being a kid and should inspire no thought other than that.     And remember to always follow your instincts. Should you see something out of place or see anyone suspicious around children, CALL THE POLICE. " We wouldn't have to worry about predators, because they wouldn't exist. But reality is they are out there and chances are they're going to prey on those that attract their attention, such as a girl at a pool not wearing a top versus a girl at the pool wearing a top. Sure a predator could very well prey on the girl wearing the top, however, I think the chances are higher that the girl not wearing the top would be singled out first. These are children that can't make informed decisions on their own, we the adults need to decide what's best for them and in today's world, though it sucks that we have to, I do feel it's best for their safety to be covered up so as to not attract attention from the wrong sort. If an adult wants to walk around nude that is their choice and I have no issue with that as they are fully aware of anything that could happen, children are innocent and don't understand these things. " The chance of your kid getting abducted by a stranger:     1 in 14 million     The chance of your kid getting hurt playing sports:     1 in 5     Lifetime chance of drowning:     1 in 1,113       Your situation from a statistical point barely exists. "

I'm not necessarily discussing abduction or getting hurt playing sports or drowning.  
 
Go look up the statistics on molestation of adolescents, it's high, so high in fact that parents do need to be proactive in preventative measures for their children, whether they are boys or girls.  
 
If you want to see girls topless at the pool then that's your prerogative, but personally, I do not. Enough children are sexually abused as it is without attracting attention to the parts of their body that will one day be sexualized. If and adult wants to take a stand for the sake of equality, that's fine, but let's not start that ball rolling by putting an innocent child at risk.

Nordberg no need to defend you're self, obviously Greendragon has some issue's depicting what you're trying to say.  
 
Greendragon you really have to think before you respond, most people wouldn't even realize that such nudity was occuring or care. Just because there are a few predators out there, everyone better cover every piece of skin. Boys and men, cover up, as I said there are predators for both genders and you don't seem to care about the boy children?  
 
If you are that concerned about you're child make sure you supervise them every moment that they are out of the house, and make sure no skin is showing.  
 
PS. stop making accusations that are just crazy.

.  
 
Edited by 4thepeople, 2015-06-25 12:36:52

 
 
 
 
Edited by 4thepeople, 2015-06-25 12:36:10

In the end, it will always come down to what the parent feels comfortable allowing their child to wear. Some allow super short skirts and shorts and others feel the longer lengths are more appropriate. Some allow the tiny tank tops and some prefer tshirts or thicker strap tanks. Some allow their boys to go shirtless and feel their daughters should too while others feel that shirtless girls are unnecessary.  
 
Whatever you choose is fine by me but it doesn't mean that just because it's allowed, I have to agree with it.