Discussions

Cyrus_Virus said "Todays Refugee, tommorows terrorist "

Unfortunately, I fear you are right.

FarmerMike said "An easy solution that would end all fear, fear of terrorists, fear of what they do, or could do. They might squeak in some terrorists posing as refugees and could very well have other methods of communicating that are out of the box, that may lure some people to join their cause.     So, here's the solution. When people realize that there is no God and that religion was made up thousands of years ago, look at how peaceful the world would be. These Islamic extremists are doing these terrible things in the name of their God. Eliminate that, and all the fears from these horrible events will stop.     Then, there will be no need to fear people moving from one country to another and we can welcome new people to our country to grow together as a country. "

Exactly, religion can cause otherwise good people to do terrible and hateful things, much of the bigotry and violence is committed by brainwashed people who believe they are doing a righteous act, and its not just Islam.  
 
 
Edited by Enfyre, 2015-11-15 18:57:39

Nice idea but have some doubts. If we are talking of terrorist ideas one could look at the American revolution, the rules of war were not followed by a certain group of fighters, and their actions could have been viewed as terrorist actions, maybe not so much against civilians as against the British military. In this conflict I don't believe that religion played much of a part. Again if we looked at the US and the race riots back in the sixties and seventies religion did not really play a part and there were actions taken that could be called terrorist actions. Take Canadian history when we had the Quebec crisis, terrorist activities for sure, not caused by religion, and I guess there would be a whole lot of other examples that could be cited.  
 
Just in conversation today, I was asked why I have very little concern about Muslim terrorists getting into our country. I guess it's because I live believing that many of the countries, that have been targeted by Muslim extremists, have sent operatives into countries like Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Syria and others with the intent of destabilizing governments in these countries, or to support governments which may may not always have the best interests of their own citizens foremost. Have we taken actions in some of these counties by supplying arms to certain groups, have we sent people in inser false names with the sole purpose of causing unrest.  
 
There is always talk of history and truth, but both seem to be very subjective in all of our minds given our biases.  
 
For those who want to talk of religion, I believe that we have travelled full circle, we could go back to the Crusades when it was a religious war, then progress through what could be viewed as social injustices, which gives rise to people following whoever is willing to lead against those injustices which brings us back to religious fanatics.  
 
During this topic there have been those that have mentioned that maybe we should look after our problems first, with that I totally agree because maybe if some of these extremists do end up in our country there may be people who are willing to follow them, and they may not be Muslim, but people who believe that they have or are experiencing social injustice.  
 
Final though, religious ideas says you shall reap what you sow, non religious could be, what goes round, comes round.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/lynzybilling/where-syrian-children-sleep

If you live in fear the bastids win, never let the bastids win

love4music said "    standard standard h8r said "love4music.     When you say "I can prove with the Bible that true christians are called to love their enemies and pray for those that percecute them.     I can also prove with the Quran that muslims are called to jihad and terror actions. In their teachings the only way they are guaranteed a place in heaven is to die for the cause of Allah."     There are sections of both books where you can also find the opposite of what you have posted. You can find sections of the Bible that say to smite your enemies in the name of God, and secitons in the Quran that implore adherents to love their enemies.     Anyone can find passages in either text to support their position.     Canada has a history of accepting people in need. It is one of the things that make our country great. We should not allow the current Islamophobia hysteria prevent us from helping genuine Syrian refugees in need.     My partner is from a refugee family. The four children in the family are now all professionals, working hard, paying their taxes and participating in society. Why would we want to keep these people out because of the name of their god ?     Screen them well, and let them in. In the long term this will strengthen our country.   " This is from Islamic Debate.org: "Now when it comes to the teaching of loving your enemy, Islamic texts do not contain such a teaching that explicitly calls for Muslims to love their enemies." So sorry, there is no such text. "

Islamic debate.org  
 
Why don't you just quote ebrandon.ca  
 
I will apologize to Adam first...  
delete me if I have crossed the line.  
 
It's funny to hear what sounds like racism being quote using the bible as justification.  
 
Wake up and smell the hate.  
 
 
 

Christian or Muslim  
 
If you have killed or been part of a Christian or Muslin radical hate group, your not welcome.  
 
This entire debate is about a horribly thought out election promise. Double the number of refugees, just make sure the system is ready. Double or triple the number, just put trusted people in place to avoid the the cluster truck that's about to happen.  
 
 
 
Edited by loeog, 2015-11-15 22:16:26

Agree, religion doesn't cause every problem in the world, there's other factors that come into play like greed, resources, desperation, nationalism.  
 
So although religion might not be the sole cause of every conflict, it does play a part in exasperating them.  
 
American revolution-  
Nationalism mostly, buy there was a religious component.  
http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel03.html  
 
Race riots-  
 
The roots of those riots began with slavery, if there had been no slavery there would have been no riots, and the profound disturbances to African culture that slavery caused is the biggest reason why africas development was so stunted in comparison to the rest of the world.  
 
Just google the religious justifications for black slavery, countless references and articles, no point linking them all.  
 
They believed that God ordained them to have slaves, they were likely taught this as children and so went on into adulthood believing this as fact, believed it with as much conviction as any other component of the religion that they were indoctrinated into.  
 
I think all humans are born to be inherently good with sound reason and logic, but most just go on to become products of their environment, the reason and logic displaced with irrational beliefs to be taken on faith without evidence, these beliefs can be as difficult to shake off in adulthood as it would be to unlearn your language for some people.  
 
Sure western countries, namely the US have done a lot to destabilize the middle East, this is where Isreal comes in, one of the biggest voterbases of the US is christian fundamentalists who feel deep religious connections to isreal as the birthplace of their savior and the holy Land where their savior will return on the second coming. The only way isreal can exist is if the rest of the Muslim middle East is destabilized.  
 
George W Bush himself said after leaving office is that the reason he pushed for the invasion of Iraq is because God told him to. He really kicked the hornets nest. Iraq was a simmering volatile country that needed a leader like Saddam to rule with an iron fist to maintain stability and squash the formation of groups like ISIS. If God didn't tell Bush to invade Iraq over a million people would not have died and we wouldn't even be having this discussion, because ISIS wouldn't exist.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/15/obama-plan-to-bring-in-syrian-refugees-after-paris-attacks-increases-gop/?intcmp=hpbt3  
check it out people.  
The USA say they don't have enough info on these people.  
And Dear Justin thinks he does?  
WTF

https://www.facebook.com/john.pickering.127/videos/10153055728726682/?pnref=story

I find it incredibly shocking how many women are pushing for this type of culture to come to Canada when 99% of them believe that women and their daughters should be basically stripped of their rights and forced into servitude. True women rights advocates would be rolling in their graves if they knew what you were trying to do. This is what social justice has evolved into.  
 
Edited by CRP, 2015-11-16 00:28:23

CRP- Are you saying that 99% of muslims believe that women and girls should be servants with no rights? Please check your facts. You're totally wrong. There are some Islamic states with extremely restricted rights and roles for women, but there are others which are very similar to the West, as well as many female elected heads of state! Fundamentalists of all the major religions have similar restrictions on roles and rights for women and girls. Check out Mennonite Brethren, FLDS, conservative orthodox Judaism, christian fundamentalist Assemblies of God, etc. etc.  
As long as we keep our Canadian laws, our Charter of Rights, there is NO THREAT to rights of women and girls from an influx of refugees. We need to ensure that we let all immigrants understand the primacy of the Charter.

I just can't believe how many Canadians are playing right into ISIS' hands. This discord over refugees and additional anger and hatred towards Muslim people is exactly what helps them.  
 
We keep looking at how Muslim people are different. What sets them apart. What makes them hard to understand...instead of focusing on the fact that these are fellow human beings. They have families and need food, shelter and security. The crucial thing that has defined most of the differences they have from us is the geographical location they were born in.  
 
The people of Syria are literally fleeing everything they have known and worked for their entire lives. Some of them are people who had comfortable lives, careers, homes...they have nothing now. Many of them have lost family and friends. There is nothing left for them but to move forward. We have an overabundance in every area of life...except maybe compassion and understanding.  
 
I guess maybe the fear of a terrorist slipping through is enough to leave them all to die in some refugee camp in Lebanon...with no education or access to health care. That will likely only result in more uneducated youth who know nothing but war and pain who grow up and are easily recruited into whatever extreme group comes next.  
 
25,000 refugees is a drop in the bucket. We can save lives here and be part of changing the narrative that ISIS is doing a fine job of creating. And the truth is we have a larger chance of somebody growing up on video games and shooting up an entire school of kids than we do of a refugee suicide bombing us.

Tater said "CRP- Are you saying that 99% of muslims believe that women and girls should be servants with no rights? Please check your facts. You're totally wrong. There are some Islamic states with extremely restricted rights and roles for women, but there are others which are very similar to the West, as well as many female elected heads of state! Fundamentalists of all the major religions have similar restrictions on roles and rights for women and girls. Check out Mennonite Brethren, FLDS, conservative orthodox Judaism, christian fundamentalist Assemblies of God, etc. etc.   As long as we keep our Canadian laws, our Charter of Rights, there is NO THREAT to rights of women and girls from an influx of refugees. We need to ensure that we let all immigrants understand the primacy of the Charter. "

How can you be so naive? When the muslim population is greater than the rest, they will elect in officials that will strip this country of its charter of rights and there will be nobody to stop them. As for the rest, You can not hold that believe and still call yourself Muslim. It is part of the core Muslim belief and written in their Quran.  
 
I would suggest taking a long look at the following page and read all about how highly they hold women's rights.  
 
You will enjoy such passages as:  
 
Bukhari (6:301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"  
 
and  
 
Muslim (4:1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'" These are the words of Muhammad's favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women under Islam.  
 
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/010-women-worth-less.htm  
 
As I said, if you do not follow the Quran, you are not Muslim but I can guarantee you that all these "refugees" hold this belief as evident by the fact that they follow the traditions of the Quran, especially in regards to women rights in their own country.

https://www.facebook.com/businessinsider/videos/10153122778024071/

Do you really think there aren't any Muslims in westman?

Have all those other fundamentalist religions damaged the Charter? They should all be following the bible or the torah or whatever too right? ALL those religions have fundamentalist sects that take everything literally and use their texts to try to limit the full participation of women in society. ALL OF THEM.  
 
To single out Islam is ridiculous.

dueindecember said "Do you really think there aren't any Muslims in westman? "

there are NO Muslims in Brandon. I know of two great professionals who have treated my family member and therefore he is still alive today. I am grateful to both of them!

The difference is that Christianity isn't trying to change the way that the courts work in Europe. Muslims are already trying to abolish the standard court system in places like the UK and bring in Sharia Law.  
 
The peaceful Muslims aren't the problem. The problem is the estimated 15-25% of Muslims[1] in the world that fully believe in the destruction of western civilization. This puts them at more people than live in the US.  
 
[1]

I, unfortunately would like to err on the side of public safety for the time being. At least until we have a government that doesn't cater to the religions and traditions of immigrants. If you want to move to Canada then you need to adapt to our ways, not push your ways on Canadians. Sorry, but I love Canada and our way of life. I also expect any immigrant to be so darn happy about being here that they would want to assimilate.  
 
I would hate to see another solder gunned down on Canadian soil again. There should be no reason for our military to be fearful in the land they have dedicated to serve and protect.

If we're bringing in refugees can we not cherry pick the doctors and people of skill

Jaxon said "I, unfortunately would like to err on the side of public safety for the time being. At least until we have a government that doesn't cater to the religions and traditions of immigrants. If you want to move to Canada then you need to adapt to our ways, not push your ways on Canadians. Sorry, but I love Canada and our way of life. I also expect any immigrant to be so darn happy about being here that they would want to assimilate.     I would hate to see another solder gunned down on Canadian soil again. There should be no reason for our military to be fearful in the land they have dedicated to serve and protect. "

It's not our government, but our Charter of Rights and Freedoms that caters to the religions and traditions of all people, not just Muslims coming into Canada. I hate the use of the word "assimilate" as if only one kind of people belongs in a nation of immigrants. The more we think like that the more we invite the hateful responses to our ignorance. We can't have a charter that says one thing and treat newcomers in a totally different way.  
 
However, I will say that the safety of Canadians is paramount and I desperately hope that Trudeau is not going to cut corners on screening just to hit a deadline.

I don't know about you but I draw the line on people that would use our rights and freedoms to abuse the system and destroy those very rights and freedoms. You aren't looking at it clearly. This isn't just people from one country or another that are coming to Canada. These are people who's very core beliefs are not compatible with our way of life. They need to assimilate into Canadian culture and abandon their old way of life or they need to stay out. You might want have your neighborhood turning into a street in Syria, but I do not.  
 
Time will only tell if their true intention was to enjoy the Canadian way of life. If not, the blood of the innocent is on the hands of the people that welcomed these people.

I just thought I'd point out that since 2001, of the 250,000 refugees that have been admitted to the United States, not one has committed an act of terrorism.  

Of all those who have posted on this topic, how many of you know a Muslim person, or maybe more importantly taken the time to talk to them, over the last 15 years I have talked to two people of the Muslim faith and from two different countries, and in neither case was it just a one time conversation, sort of sad when people are so afraid of something that they won't even take time to learn.  
 
CRP, hope this doesn't seem off topic but how do you feel about abortion, are you one who feels it is a woman's right or not, because there are Christian people who have no problem with trampling on women's rights when it comes to that, also is banning prayer in school a good thing or bad.  
 
For anyone who is interested and wishes to know the Muslim people that I would consider my friends, send me a private message and I could share their names.

Has asked the Feds to slow down on immigration. http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/saskatoon/sask-premier-brad-wall-asks-feds-to-suspend-syrian-refugee-plan-1.3321159 Also 10 US states have said they will not accept any Syrian refugees

25,0000 is alot of people, half the size of brandon and they could form a small city. Does the 25,000 refugees include women and children? Where are they going to live and work? Are they going to be put in dead end jobs and left to fend for their selves, of course. Not a huge secret. We do not need terrorists in our country, we have Canadians(born and raised in this country), already attacking our democracy and destroying our safety. I hope the government re-thinks and does a intense screening on everyone and allows only a few at a time. Saying that, we need to look at the Canadians that are homeless,have no food and need clean drinking water before we bring in any refugees from other countries. Also, we need to have better social programs for all Canadians. By bringing refugees this is a good opportunity for cowards to destroy lives and Paris attacks are just the beginning, whether refugees come or not.

CRP said "I find it incredibly shocking how many women are pushing for this type of culture to come to Canada when 99% of them believe that women and their daughters should be basically stripped of their rights and forced into servitude. True women rights advocates would be rolling in their graves if they knew what you were trying to do. This is what social justice has evolved into.     Edited by CRP, 2015-11-16 00:28:23"

What in the world are you talking about? I know several Muslim people and none of them feel that way, their wives all have jobs and are free to go out and do what they want. Heck, look at Bangladesh, they are 90% Muslim and their prime minister is female.

with brad wall . lets slow this down and make sure that Canadian safety comes first. there is a petition to slow it down and needs 75000 signatures . check it out on google under " petition to suspend refugees"

The subject of the refugees has dominated social media the past few days. My Facebook timeline has been littered with comments and opinions on the subject and, like on eBrandon, has sparked many debates. Some of the comments and opinions that have graced my timeline have been well educated and thought out....most have been ridiculously stupid and ignorant. It has divided some, caused a lot of anger, finger pointing, name calling, insults, racist comments and in some cases threats. Some are very well educated on the subject, most are not. One thing is obvious, we have become intolerant of others for their opinions on the matter.  
 
If this subject has caused the kind of public debate it has in just a few short days then I certainly think it warrants further debate in the political arena.