Discussions

I am far more comfortable with this man living in society than with all of the sex offenders getting out with just a photograph and "Watch out for this person, they are a high risk to reoffend!" warning.  
 
Maybe if we don't believe their opinion that Li is not a threat, we also don't have to believe them when they say these other people likely WILL hurt someone.  
 
I don't want any of them living in my neighborhood. I guess that is the problem. But don't tell me someone will likely commit a violent/sexual crime again and move them next door to me. The criminal justice system needs an overhaul - the balance between punitive justice and protecting the public seems to be way off.

v-ball rocks it looks like he was never stabilized nor treated at that time. He was not returned to a state of sanity through medication and treatment at that time, refusing to take medication when you are still not sane and not fully treated through a long term treatment plan is worlds away from the situation now.

Here is an interview with Vince Li from May 2012 on his thoughts and actions at the time.  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/greyhound-killer-believed-man-he-beheaded-was-an-alien-1.1131575  
 
I still find it curious why he changed his name to Will Baker, then again it's pretty obvious. Tim McLean's Mom, Carol DeDelley speaks out on this issue. She does has some valid points.  
 
http://www.calgarysun.com/2016/02/23/mother-of-bus-beheading-victim-calls-killers-name-change-a-travesty  
 
With such a heinous crime such as this, we can never put ourselves in the place of the victim's family unless one has experienced something like this...Heaven forbid.  
 
People are naturally thinking "What would I do if this were my son, daughter, family member?"  
 
Carol DeDelley is fighting the memory of her beloved and innocent, bystander son in wanting extreme justice for his killer. I would do the same if it were my family member.  
 
On the other hand, there is the Candice Derksen case in Winnipeg (1984) where her parents, over many years of emotional turmoil have come to the point of focusing on honouring her memory in ways that leave a lasting legacy. Almost to the point of forgiveness to whomever their daughter's killer is.  
 
Two very different cases and approaches, but what an everlasting and emotional fight it must be.  
 
One thing for sure is that is has people discussing mental health.  
 
Brenda, you have bravely laid it on the line with your own personal history and I give you credit for this. It's always good to open a discussion about various mental health issues and the fallout in affecting loved ones around them.

Thank you. I am very open about mental illness issues as so many don''t understand. So many don''t think it is real or do not even want to understand. Some people are so rude and ignorant on the subject. Thanks! <:img src=:images/icon_smiley.gif>:  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2017-02-14 20:23:01

Just one more question for the naysayers posting in this thread and who want to see Baker locked up for life:  
 
Once the investigation and trial for the stabbing death of the city bus driver in Winnipeg is over, the guilty party will probably face 10 to 25 years in prison. He will be released after, most likely, 10 years or less. He will have to live somewhere. Are you OK with having him back in society and out on the street? There is no medication to keep this person from killing again. There is no treatment to stop. He killed because that is what he's like as a human being. People like him are released from prison all the time. Where is the outrage there? Where is the panic? Where are the demands to keep them locked up for life because we don't know if they will murder again?  
 
Given a choice, I'm much more comfortable living close to Mr. Baker as opposed to someone who spent time in the prison system for murder and is now out on the streets with no guaranteed rehabilitation and absolutely, positively NO guarantee that he won't re-offend.

JR said "Just one more question for the naysayers posting in this thread and who want to see Baker locked up for life:     Once the investigation and trial for the stabbing death of the city bus driver in Winnipeg is over, the guilty party will probably face 10 to 25 years in prison. He will be released after, most likely, 10 years or less. He will have to live somewhere. Are you OK with having him back in society and out on the street? There is no medication to keep this person from killing again. There is no treatment to stop. He killed because that is what he's like as a human being. People like him are released from prison all the time. Where is the outrage there? Where is the panic? Where are the demands to keep them locked up for life because we don't know if they will murder again?     Given a choice, I'm much more comfortable living close to Mr. Baker as opposed to someone who spent time in the prison system for murder and is now out on the streets with no guaranteed rehabilitation and absolutely, positively NO guarantee that he won't re-offend. "

And how can you say vince li will absolutely positively guarantee never do such a thing again? You can''t , noone can. Its sick and disturbing letting him out.  
 
Edited by Goatmanatv, 2017-02-14 23:36:02

just keep banging your head.

Read just about all the comments, and realize that many people would like a someone to tell them that this man will not offend again, but I believe that is nearly impossible to do. For many people this creates fear for their personal life, or a fear that it could possibly happen again,regardless what the experts say, but it does come down to a choice that he is going to make for himself.  
For those who live in fear I want to put forward a thought. Every year there are many Canadians killed in auto accidents because of an altered state of mind, caused by being impaired, and I'm sure if you talked to first responders you would find out how horrific some of these accidents are, And at times more than one person is killed, sometimes whole families are killed. The court system in a way treats both the same, or maybe they are a little more concerned about the person who suffers from a mental illness.  
I guess the point I'm trying to make is if Vince Lee takes his medication he won't be a danger to society, and if the person who killed someone while impaired stays away from what ever product that caused their impairment, they likely won't be a danger to society either, both come down to choices that will be made by the individual.  
In life there are no garantees.

Brenda said "just keep banging your head. "

one thing that concerns me... do you put yourself in the same boat as Vince Li?

Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "just keep banging your head. " one thing that concerns me... do you put yourself in the same boat as Vince Li? "

there are 100 different types of mental illness. Mine is treatment resistant depression. I do not hear voice, but I used to have bad thoughts about myself.

wonderment said "Absolute discharge = absolute bull crap "

Absolutely agree

Brenda said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "just keep banging your head. " one thing that concerns me... do you put yourself in the same boat as Vince Li? " there are 100 different types of mental illness. Mine is treatment resistant depression. I do not hear voice, but I used to have bad thoughts about myself. "

let's not lump depression and anxiety into the serious disease that Li suffers from. And I'm not saying that anxiety and depression can't be serious for some people.

Johnbisonbear, what if someone on this site DOES have schizophrenia? Why would you be concerned if someone considered their mental illness 'in the same boat' as Will Baker's?

Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "just keep banging your head. " one thing that concerns me... do you put yourself in the same boat as Vince Li? " there are 100 different types of mental illness. Mine is treatment resistant depression. I do not hear voice, but I used to have bad thoughts about myself. " let's not lump depression and anxiety into the serious disease that Li suffers from. And I'm not saying that anxiety and depression can't be serious for some people. "

Now, I wished uou lived it. (read my previous post on my history of this illness) They are all very serious. What thoughts about myself do you think I used to have?  
 
All mental Illness's are very serious. You can lump them all together until one find the right treatment plan and medication.

Brenda said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "just keep banging your head. " one thing that concerns me... do you put yourself in the same boat as Vince Li? " there are 100 different types of mental illness. Mine is treatment resistant depression. I do not hear voice, but I used to have bad thoughts about myself. " let's not lump depression and anxiety into the serious disease that Li suffers from. And I'm not saying that anxiety and depression can't be serious for some people. " Now, I wished uou lived it. (read my previous post on my history of this illness) They are all very serious. What thoughts about myself do you think I used to have?     All mental Illness's are very serious. You can lump them all together until one find the right treatment plan and medication. "

that I don't have anxiety or depression? Or both?

Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "    Johnbisonbear said "    Brenda said "just keep banging your head. " one thing that concerns me... do you put yourself in the same boat as Vince Li? " there are 100 different types of mental illness. Mine is treatment resistant depression. I do not hear voice, but I used to have bad thoughts about myself. " let's not lump depression and anxiety into the serious disease that Li suffers from. And I'm not saying that anxiety and depression can't be serious for some people. " Now, I wished uou lived it. (read my previous post on my history of this illness) They are all very serious. What thoughts about myself do you think I used to have?     All mental Illness's are very serious. You can lump them all together until one find the right treatment plan and medication. " that I don't have anxiety or depression? Or both? "

it is as serious as mental illness is very serious. Depression, anxiety, PTSD, postpartum are all as serious as schizophrenia, until treatment and medication works. So, if you have it, even a mild condition is serious.  
 
The law defines the following conditions as a serious mental illness:  
 
Schizophrenia  
Paranoid and other psychotic disorders  
Bipolar disorders (hypomanic, manic, depressive, and mixed)  
Major depressive disorders (single episode or recurrent)  
Schizoaffective disorders (bipolar or depressive)  
Pervasive developmental disorders  
Obsessive-compulsive disorders  
Depression in childhood and adolescence  
Panic disorder  
Post traumatic stress disorders (acute, chronic, or with delayed onset)  
Bulimia Nervosa 307.51  
Anorexia Nervosa 307.1  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2017-02-15 19:38:59