Discussions

Do you like that term Suicide? I had to go on a long drive today and it just came to mind that I hate that term and I am sure we will be hearing it much more. It is not really suicide, it is death by a doctor. so lets call it Dr. Assisted Death.  
 
Suicide has such a stigma to it.  
Yes, I suffer depression & anxiety and perhaps that is why I hate that term.

I prefer to call it death with dignity. That being said I guess we still need to address the ramifications of life insurance payouts and wills. I think it is a wonderful thing that we can have some help in our choices on death rather than suffering forever because that is what has been decreed.  

Whether it is Dr assisted or not, taking your own life is suicide.

Daphne said "Whether it is Dr assisted or not, taking your own life is suicide. "

I think suicide is taking your own life by your own hand.  
 
Of course, with a doctor there are more people involved, so it is not with your own hand, in a controlled environment. Suicide you could fail at your act and be mangled for the rest of your life, that would not happen with Dr. Assisted.  
 
I do believe in it, I just don't like the term. I guess it got me to thinking about it as I was driving to Hamiota today to see my mom who is in the hospital with two brain tumors. She can't walk, she can't hear, she can't eat by herself, they need to use a lifter to get her out of bed, she is about 80lbs, her hands are becoming mangled and she forgets almost everything. Of course we would never let our animals go through life like this, but now, she would not be in the right frame of ind to go through the whole processes. Seeing my vibrant mother like that is torture and I wish a doctor could help her. When she was diagnosed she would never have thought of the term suicide, as her sister did that. But, she would have signed documents for a death that is controlled, nothing will go wrong.....a death by doctor. Love you mom!  
 
Just a term that came to mind due to mom's way of life right now I guess.  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2016-04-02 19:34:44

I just wanted to thank you Brenda for opening this discussion. You have given me alot to think about - and I feel for you and your mom. I think it is absolutely something we should be able to prepare for - once we are aware that we have a terminal illness. I too support Dr. Assisted Death -

where you decide what if any treatment you want if you get sick, does this mean by choosing no treatment what so ever it would be classified as suicide?

I thought doctor assisted death was considered euthanasia?

I made out a Living Will when they were first legalized in Manitoba which was in the early '90 I believe. After watching family members having to make the heartbreaking decision on whether to put their loved one onto a feeding tube or not I decided I never wanted my family to have to go through that. She was critically ill, unable to do anything on her own, couldn't move and was just existing. She was unable to make her wishes known and even though they knew what this persons wishes were it was the most excruciating decision they would ever have to make. I had this document reviewed by a lawyer again a few years ago just to make sure it was properly done. It basically just states that if I were ever to suffer from a terminal or chronic illness that leaves me incapacitated that I want no artificial means of life support applied to keep me living. If I suffered from a terminal illness that I knew I had, I think that I would also want a "do not resuscitate" order on my medical chart and also where ambulance attendants would find it in my home. Is that suicide? I really never thought of it that way. I just want family members to know my wishes so they never need to make that decision on my behalf. If Doctor Assisted Suicide becomes legal in Canada I think I might consider it if the medical profession were unable or unwilling to alleviate any severe pain. Many are unwilling whether its because of fear of addicting the patient (at this point would that matter) or fear that they may be contributing to an earlier death (again, would that matter). Medical Assisted Suicide is an ethical conundrum for the medical profession and I hope they get right.

WestWind said "I made out a Living Will when they were first legalized in Manitoba which was in the early '90 I believe. After watching family members having to make the heartbreaking decision on whether to put their loved one onto a feeding tube or not I decided I never wanted my family to have to go through that. She was critically ill, unable to do anything on her own, couldn't move and was just existing. She was unable to make her wishes known and even though they knew what this persons wishes were it was the most excruciating decision they would ever have to make. I had this document reviewed by a lawyer again a few years ago just to make sure it was properly done. It basically just states that if I were ever to suffer from a terminal or chronic illness that leaves me incapacitated that I want no artificial means of life support applied to keep me living. If I suffered from a terminal illness that I knew I had, I think that I would also want a "do not resuscitate" order on my medical chart and also where ambulance attendants would find it in my home. Is that suicide? I really never thought of it that way. I just want family members to know my wishes so they never need to make that decision on my behalf. If Doctor Assisted Suicide becomes legal in Canada I think I might consider it if the medical profession were unable or unwilling to alleviate any severe pain. Many are unwilling whether its because of fear of addicting the patient (at this point would that matter) or fear that they may be contributing to an earlier death (again, would that matter). Medical Assisted Suicide is an ethical conundrum for the medical profession and I hope they get right. "

What you have done is a Do Not Resucitate order, which in my opinion everyone should have. Meaning if you go into cardiac arrest, get deadly infection, pneumonia on your death bed, they do not try to save you, as that would be natural death.  
 
My mom does have that, thank goodness.  
 
So, we go to the vet to have our beloved animal put down by a team of vets and assistants - that is not suicide of an animal (I know extreme example)  
 
Suicide - is at one's own hand, or involving someone that knows nothing about it. Where is might not work.  
 
Dr. Assisted Death - is an end to someone's life who is terminally ill with no chance to recover, who is just exiting and done with a capable team where nothing will go  
wrong.  
 
Duckie - I do like Death With Dignity  
mom would be more dignified in death now, as she is in life. She as absolutely no dignity left.  
 
 
 
(you e-brandon members should be glad I have a short memory, as I had another controversial question, for another thread and now I have forgot what it was. Maybe I will remember on my next drive )  
 
Edited by Brenda, 2016-04-02 21:21:03

Jellybeanqueen91 said "I thought doctor assisted death was considered euthanasia? "

Seems to be assisted death.  
 
http://eol.law.dal.ca/?page_id=238  
 
 

Is now what used to be a Living Will. You can obtain copies of this document from your local hospital and then leave a copy of it in your chart so it's readily available if needed. My Mom filled one out three years ago and due to failing health has revised it. A copy is on her medical record as well as I keep a copy and her immediate family knows of her wishes.

Valid points, but it is still the term suicide I don't like. There are many people who commit suicide at their own hand an their is too much stigma attached to that word. Everyone will have their own understanding/term, but as a person who suffers with mental health problem, I will just make up my own term.

I checked mine our last night and it in part states "if there is no reasonable expectation of my recovery from extreme physical or mental disability disability that I be allowed to die and not be kept alive by artificial or extraordinary means. I do however ask that medication be administrated to alleviate suffering even though this may hasten the moment of my own death". I wonder what would happen if a person is living at home and has such an extreme condition or is on palliative care if it would not also be advisable to have a "Do not Resuscitate" sign in plain view or if a person could wear a DNR bracelet. Can you even get these? Sometimes in the panic of the moment and someone goes into cardiac arrest or whatever, the ambulance attendants may not have time to check for stuff like that and any family members who are around are usually so distraught they aren't thinking straight. I agree with Brenda and don't like the term "Assisted Suicide or Euthanasia." The Health Care Directive is basically to stop all treatment when a person reaches reaches that point when choices need to be made. However, there are people who have had extreme injury or devastating chronic illness who don't need extreme medical intervention but just cannot and do not want to continue their life and wait for that point to come. If they are of sound mind when they make that decision and because they are aware of the likely progression of their condition I believe they should be given the choice of "Doctor Assisted End of Life." The term suicide is not suitable. There is still such a stigma against suicide and mental health issues and families will go to the extreme to deny a loved one has died from their own hand. That in and of itself is hard for me to understand as I have lost family members to suicide and the more it is talked about the more attitudes and help for individuals might change. But that is for another topic altogether.

WestWind said "I checked mine our last night and it in part states "if there is no reasonable expectation of my recovery from extreme physical or mental disability disability that I be allowed to die and not be kept alive by artificial or extraordinary means. I do however ask that medication be administrated to alleviate suffering even though this may hasten the moment of my own death". I wonder what would happen if a person is living at home and has such an extreme condition or is on palliative care if it would not also be advisable to have a "Do not Resuscitate" sign in plain view or if a person could wear a DNR bracelet. Can you even get these? Sometimes in the panic of the moment and someone goes into cardiac arrest or whatever, the ambulance attendants may not have time to check for stuff like that and any family members who are around are usually so distraught they aren't thinking straight. I agree with Brenda and don't like the term "Assisted Suicide or Euthanasia." The Health Care Directive is basically to stop all treatment when a person reaches reaches that point when choices need to be made. However, there are people who have had extreme injury or devastating chronic illness who don't need extreme medical intervention but just cannot and do not want to continue their life and wait for that point to come. If they are of sound mind when they make that decision and because they are aware of the likely progression of their condition I believe they should be given the choice of "Doctor Assisted End of Life." The term suicide is not suitable. There is still such a stigma against suicide and mental health issues and families will go to the extreme to deny a loved one has died from their own hand. That in and of itself is hard for me to understand as I have lost family members to suicide and the more it is talked about the more attitudes and help for individuals might change. But that is for another topic altogether. "

great post - I believe we are on the same page. Thanks for responding.

Brenda said "    Daphne said "Whether it is Dr assisted or not, taking your own life is suicide. " I think suicide is taking your own life by your own hand.     Of course, with a doctor there are more people involved, so it is not with your own hand, in a controlled environment. Suicide you could fail at your act and be mangled for the rest of your life, that would not happen with Dr. Assisted.     I do believe in it, I just don't like the term. I guess it got me to thinking about it as I was driving to Hamiota today to see my mom who is in the hospital with two brain tumors. She can't walk, she can't hear, she can't eat by herself, they need to use a lifter to get her out of bed, she is about 80lbs, her hands are becoming mangled and she forgets almost everything. Of course we would never let our animals go through life like this, but now, she would not be in the right frame of ind to go through the whole processes. Seeing my vibrant mother like that is torture and I wish a doctor could help her. When she was diagnosed she would never have thought of the term suicide, as her sister did that. But, she would have signed documents for a death that is controlled, nothing will go wrong.....a death by doctor. Love you mom!     Just a term that came to mind due to mom's way of life right now I guess.     Edited by Brenda, 2016-04-02 19:34:44"

The definition is the act of intentionally causing one's own death. It doesn't state it has to be by one's own hand, so that being said the term "assisted suicide" is correct.

Yes, I know the term is correct. My post was asking do you like it? Lets call it something with less stigma attached to it. It is the term I don't like. I love Duckie's "Death with Dignity"

Just so we're all clear what the different terms mean...  
 
Doctor Assisted Suicide is a scheme where doctors are authorized to prescribe a lethal dose of medication, but where the patient must be able to self-administer the drug, generally in pill form. A prescription is written and then filled at the local pharmacy like any other drug, and the patient takes it home and administers it. The prescription is usually only valid for a few days or weeks to prevent abuses. This is like what is available in places like Oregon.  
 
In doctor-assisted suicide, the patient has to physically commit suicide still (as in, their actions are directly responsible for their own death), although the doctor has helped by prescribing the drugs.  
 
Euthanasia is where the doctor prescribes and administers a lethal dose of medication, usually by injection. The doctor actually injects the patient, much as a vet would do when putting down a dog.  
 
The doctor has taken an active role in killing the patient, and is basically a form of consentual homicide.  
 
When we're talking about "doctor assisted suicide" in Canada, we're actually talking about euthanasia. That's what the law in Quebec is providing for, and that's what to my knowledge all court-approved deaths that have occurred to date have been.  
 
I dislike the term "death with dignity" because there is no dignity in death. By definition, one can have dignity when they're alive, but not when they're dead.  
 
Edited by Abbysmum, 2016-04-03 11:31:33

Abbysmum said "Just so we're all clear what the different terms mean...     Doctor Assisted Suicide is a scheme where doctors are authorized to prescribe a lethal dose of medication, but where the patient must be able to self-administer the drug, generally in pill form. A prescription is written and then filled at the local pharmacy like any other drug, and the patient takes it home and administers it. The prescription is usually only valid for a few days or weeks to prevent abuses. This is like what is available in places like Oregon.     In doctor-assisted suicide, the patient has to physically commit suicide still (as in, their actions are directly responsible for their own death), although the doctor has helped by prescribing the drugs.     Euthanasia is where the doctor prescribes and administers a lethal dose of medication, usually by injection. The doctor actually injects the patient, much as a vet would do when putting down a dog.     The doctor has taken an active role in killing the patient, and is basically a form of consentual homicide.     When we're talking about "doctor assisted suicide" in Canada, we're actually talking about euthanasia. That's what the law in Quebec is providing for, and that's what to my knowledge all court-approved deaths that have occurred to date have been.     I dislike the term "death with dignity" because there is no dignity in death. By definition, one can have dignity when they're alive, but not when they're dead.     Edited by Abbysmum, 2016-04-03 11:31:33"

Very informative, sheds some light on the topic and helped me understand the correct terminology that I for one find confusing.

I think we want to change the name of Dr. Assisted Suicide because it eases our conscience... It doesn't sound as bad if we change the name. Whether we like it or not.. We were created by the God of heaven and earth before whom we will all stand one day. The bible tells us "thou shalt not kill." Suicide is clearly wrong! God gave us the breath of life and wants us to live to glorify Him, not end it!

People who have much stronger, or different beliefs than me would likely not agree with me, but my God would understand.

. . . this past week, there was a Dr. Assisted Suicide completed for a woman who was diagnosed with MS. I am hoping Manitoba will follow suite - and bring this Human Rights Issue more to the forefront. It is definately something I am looking forward to researching further.  

whatthewhat said ". . . this past week, there was a Dr. Assisted Suicide completed for a woman who was diagnosed with MS. I am hoping Manitoba will follow suite - and bring this Human Rights Issue more to the forefront. It is definately something I am looking forward to researching further.   "

That's why I started this post, I do believe it will come to the forefront and we will be hearing more and more about it. Myself, I just don't like the term "Suicide", when a Dr. is assisting, and only put it out there for others to have their say.  
 
There was one in Winnipeg also just a few weeks ago. Perhaps/eventually we won't hear the term, as it will just become a doctor and patient consultation.

Mr. Don Brown.. You say 'my God would understand' what if God isn't what you imagined Him to be? Believe the Bible with what it says God to be like and you are sure to not be mistaken!

There seems to be already a push by advocates to replace suicide with death.  
 
The process is through the means of suicide, but the outcome, regardless of the action, is death. So both terms are equally technically accurate in their own right.  
 
It's just a matter of preference whether you wish to emphasize the process or the outcome.

Enfyre said "There seems to be already a push by advocates to replace suicide with death.     The process is through the means of suicide, but the outcome, regardless of the action, is death. So both terms are equally technically accurate in their own right.     It's just a matter of preference whether you wish to emphasize the process or the outcome. "

I did not know there was a push by advocates.

jt said "Mr. Don Brown.. You say 'my God would understand' what if God isn't what you imagined Him to be? Believe the Bible with what it says God to be like and you are sure to not be mistaken! "

"God" is what each person makes it.  
 
Since the Bible was written by men, I suppose believing the Bible forces one to believe what the men writing the Bible believed "God" to be.  
 
I am only questioning your response because you brought it up.  
 
Your beliefs are yours - let's keep it that way.  
 

Why bring religion into the conversation, this has nothing to do with religion.  
 
Why can there not be a discussion such as this without someone switching it to a discussion about their cult?

True, the bible was written by men.. But they were inspired by God! It's the only perfect thing in this world!  
 

leave religion out of this. that wasn't brought up in the initial question.  
any one who has watched some one die will understand what is asked here.  
I support the original posters position on this

wrencher said "leave religion out of this. that wasn't brought up in the initial question.   any one who has watched some one die will understand what is asked here.   I support the original posters position on this "

thanks for your support, just a question I thought about while driving to see my terminally ill mother.  
 
Thanks