Discussions

We are in trouble and don't see it. The government is paying all kinds of able bodied people to sit on their a$$es and do nothing. More and more people being supported by less and less. There is a limit to what the system can support. Social programs keep getting better and better. More people on assistance etc. with more benefits than the working poor are entitled to. Infrastructure is not being repaired and rebuilt as it should. Bridges and roads etc. are needed by the people that work and pay taxes that supports health care etc.  
We collectively need to quit bitching about cuts to services and get to work and make the system better. Stop asking the government to feed and house us. That is our responsibility not the government's. If everybody that was able did that the government could focus on the things that they should be doing.

Tax the root causes of increasing healthcare costs - unhealthy behaviours  
 
More taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.  
Add healthcare-destined taxes to all food and drinks that don't meet a nutritional threshold.  
Tax sugary/fatty junk food to the same level as cigarettes.  
Put graphic images on junk food like they do to cigarette packs. Put images of obese backsides. Afterall, according to the latest report, obesity related health issues is now costing 23.3 billion/year in Canada, which is a huge increase. Healthy eaters shouldn't have to pay for other peoples dietary indulgences.

skeptical of whats going on at federal level. We might not have to worry about Pallister the way Justin openly states he admires basic dictatorships, and seems to wants to bankrupt the whole country with taxes and letting his friends drive jobs out of Canada.  
 
He Likes the Chinese and seems to want to sell them everything here to. What would be the chances the federal government ends up owning us all/ our property and telling us what to do and "looks after us" like some communist country's.

Johnbisonbear said "    blewbyyou said "    Johnbisonbear said "I was just reading CKLQ and the Manitoba government wants to impose a health care tax. It will be based on income and collected when filing taxes.     Are they kidding me? I tell you this Conservative government best enjoy their time in office because this and other initiatives will pound the last nail in their coffin and it will many, many years before the voting public will even consider having their party in power again! " This is one new tax Ispecifically asked Len Isleifson if the conservatives would bring in if elected. Well I guess I was right. Lens response was to block me so I couldn't question him on it. " that I don't remember you asking Len that particular question. What I do remember is that you repeatedly asked Len if Pallister was going to commit to build a new school in the south end and if his government was going to support senior's affordable housing project that was trying to get off the ground at that time. "

You follow all my posts? Kinda creepy but whatever. If you check my posts from April 16 of last year you will see that I was posting about this very issue. Why wound I lie about that.

I know I'm a silly old mind that sometimes rants on things, and I've mentioned this before and that is the idea of critical mass. Why do I have the feeling that we are approaching that level when it comes to our society.  
When we look at the ability to provide proper medical care, we must realize that we are now seeing the beginning of baby boomer leaving the work force and also likely face increasing medical problems, this combined with new medicine and procedures, will inflated medical costs.  
The idea of collecting the difference through PST isn't really a great idea. The idea of MPC (marginal propensity to consume) has to be looked at when talking of increasing the PST, for the simple fact that the those in the lower income levels can least afford increases, and the majority of their income is spent on surviving.  
When you hear reports of the number of people who are saving for retirement, you can see that social programs are likely going to continue to increase, the number if those saving is running around 23% of the working population.  
Governments, at every level, are down loading programs on those below them, federal governments on provincial governments, provincial governments on municipal and city governments and finally municipal and city governments on the tax payer. The part that makes this so dangerous is that they do this while continuing to increase revenues at all levels.  
If government wishes to run like a business it has to act like business which means you try to provide more for less, not the other way round.  
 
Sorry for the rant, but that's how I see it.

Instead of raising costs. Let's reduce spending. There are too many dollars spent on admin costs. Let's cut that by 25% across the board. Then allow private clinics to do tests that they can charge for. Then the people with money will spend it on what they need for themselves. This does NOT make a two tier systems peo now the waiting lines are smaller and now people who can't pay move up the list.  
Then reduce stupid spending like paying for nurse run clinics. They are not working especially at the hours they have. They are needed from 6 pm to 6 am. Not during the day. And I know people who have used them and got wrong diagnosis. One will have to suffer the consequences the rest of her life.  
Now after reducing 25% look again at double spending or more than one person doing the same job. Like the same piece of paper has to go through 10 people hands before completed.  
Help more elderly stay at home instead of forcing them into nursing home medical. Way less cost to be st home. I know I had to really fight to get my dad home when he was in hospital and we had all the care in place in home  
 
Like I started to say. Let's cut the excess first before throwing more money at it. And sign the federal agreement. 3% is better than nothing.

Enfyre said "Tax the root causes of increasing healthcare costs - unhealthy behaviours     More taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.   Add healthcare-destined taxes to all food and drinks that don't meet a nutritional threshold.   Tax sugary/fatty junk food to the same level as cigarettes.   Put graphic images on junk food like they do to cigarette packs. Put images of obese backsides. Afterall, according to the latest report, obesity related health issues is now costing 23.3 billion/year in Canada, which is a huge increase. Healthy eaters shouldn't have to pay for other peoples dietary indulgences. "

drug users. And here we are paying for their overdose kits  
 
I feel bad for the people up north, you eat what you can afford, if a four litre jug of milk is what? 12 bucks? then you do drink the pop.

blewbyyou said "    Johnbisonbear said "    blewbyyou said "    Johnbisonbear said "I was just reading CKLQ and the Manitoba government wants to impose a health care tax. It will be based on income and collected when filing taxes.     Are they kidding me? I tell you this Conservative government best enjoy their time in office because this and other initiatives will pound the last nail in their coffin and it will many, many years before the voting public will even consider having their party in power again! " This is one new tax Ispecifically asked Len Isleifson if the conservatives would bring in if elected. Well I guess I was right. Lens response was to block me so I couldn't question him on it. " that I don't remember you asking Len that particular question. What I do remember is that you repeatedly asked Len if Pallister was going to commit to build a new school in the south end and if his government was going to support senior's affordable housing project that was trying to get off the ground at that time. " You follow all my posts? Kinda creepy but whatever. If you check my posts from April 16 of last year you will see that I was posting about this very issue. Why wound I lie about that. "

I follow Len.

Johnbisonbear said "    Enfyre said "Tax the root causes of increasing healthcare costs - unhealthy behaviours     More taxes on cigarettes and alcohol.   Add healthcare-destined taxes to all food and drinks that don't meet a nutritional threshold.   Tax sugary/fatty junk food to the same level as cigarettes.   Put graphic images on junk food like they do to cigarette packs. Put images of obese backsides. Afterall, according to the latest report, obesity related health issues is now costing 23.3 billion/year in Canada, which is a huge increase. Healthy eaters shouldn't have to pay for other peoples dietary indulgences. " drug users. And here we are paying for their overdose kits     I feel bad for the people up north, you eat what you can afford, if a four litre jug of milk is what? 12 bucks? then you do drink the pop. "

Not sure how a tax could be levied on drug users, honestly I would have no sympathy if EMS just stopped responding to opioid overdoses, which has actually been in serious discussion in epidemic areas.  
 
Other than babies, people don't really need milk, and it may not even be healthy for an adult http://www.webmd.com/osteoporosis/news/20141029/is-milk-your-friend-or-foe  
 
Waters a lot cheaper than pop, and won't give you diabetes.

Why should I pay a tax for people that don't take care of themselves?  
 
Most people can't run to the end of the block. Too many smokes, liquor bottles and pounds on the gut.

fee or tax. The BC liberals made you pay out of pocket monthly. The test collected at tax time. Either way I hate them.  
It is a chickens way out of fiscal management. Like others I note year in and out this proficial Government will get a 3 percent raise from the Feds every year. Not the above inflation 6 percent. A referendum is also a chickens way out of tough choices.  
 
Palister may have inherited a mess but he knew that going in and should be accountable . He knows that three percent less was coming before he ran and getting a smaller raise from your boss on anybodies next years paycheck is not a cut.  
 
He has fiscal room elsewhere before he raises medical fees that other provinces like BC and Quebec have dropped.

MDG said "    PoliticallyIncorrect said "Why is the person who has to step in and fix problems created by the previous people in charge always the bad guy? " because (we) want everything we have & then some more but don't want it to cost (us) anything IMHO.   Bottom line is that the Province can't continue to spend money that it doesn't have. "

And yet,Pallister has 15 million to give to upgrade Assiniboine Park in Winnipeg while services have been cut to seniors,healthcare and the lower income population.  
Oh yes and I forgot...also gave himself a raise when he took office.So...this makes him one of the good guys??  
Sounds like he is just like any other politician out there.  
http://news.gov.mb.ca/news/index.html?item=41933

Typical. One party yowls about a tax increase by the other party but then thinks it is okay to slap a bigger tax on us once that party comes to power. Premier gives himself a raise when he gets elected and immediately starts yipping about breaking contracts and cutting wages for others. Pallister and his party better take a long hard look at cutting out wastage in the health system before they decide to impose a health tax.  
 
And what kind of stuoid logic is it to say that if milk is too expensive people will drink pop? WATER would be the healthy choice-and surely cheaper than pop.

Farmboy74 said "skeptical of whats going on at federal level. We might not have to worry about Pallister the way Justin openly states he admires basic dictatorships, and seems to wants to bankrupt the whole country with taxes and letting his friends drive jobs out of Canada.     He Likes the Chinese and seems to want to sell them everything here to. What would be the chances the federal government ends up owning us all/ our property and telling us what to do and "looks after us" like some communist country's. "

Did you vote conservative federally? If so how can you complain that Trudeau is trying to bankrupt the country? The pos he replaced put us another 160 billion in the red don't forget.

swmb said "    Farmboy74 said "skeptical of whats going on at federal level. We might not have to worry about Pallister the way Justin openly states he admires basic dictatorships, and seems to wants to bankrupt the whole country with taxes and letting his friends drive jobs out of Canada.     He Likes the Chinese and seems to want to sell them everything here to. What would be the chances the federal government ends up owning us all/ our property and telling us what to do and "looks after us" like some communist country's. " Did you vote conservative federally? If so how can you complain that Trudeau is trying to bankrupt the country? The pos he replaced put us another 160 billion in the red don't forget. "

Let's not also forget that the majority of that spending was done during the '09-'10 global recession as part of an economic stimulus. Most economists agreed that it was necessary and we'd be worse off without the spending, this type of spending stimulus was done in almost every country impacted by the recession to at least some degree, so it's basically of global unanimous opinion that it is/was of benefit.  
But fact is, Trudeau governments spending is, excluding periods of war or recession, of record levels.

Enfyre said "    swmb said "    Farmboy74 said "skeptical of whats going on at federal level. We might not have to worry about Pallister the way Justin openly states he admires basic dictatorships, and seems to wants to bankrupt the whole country with taxes and letting his friends drive jobs out of Canada.     He Likes the Chinese and seems to want to sell them everything here to. What would be the chances the federal government ends up owning us all/ our property and telling us what to do and "looks after us" like some communist country's. " Did you vote conservative federally? If so how can you complain that Trudeau is trying to bankrupt the country? The pos he replaced put us another 160 billion in the red don't forget. " Let's not also forget that the majority of that spending was done during the '09-'10 global recession as part of an economic stimulus. Most economists agreed that it was necessary and we'd be worse off without the spending, this type of spending stimulus was done in almost every country impacted by the recession to at least some degree, so it's basically of global unanimous opinion that it is/was of benefit.   But fact is, Trudeau governments spending is, excluding periods of war or recession, of record levels. "

Let's not forget Harper promised balanced budgets then proved totally incapable of that and then cut the gst by 2% just to make his mess so much worse. Most incompetent PM ever. Trudeau promised deficits, he is delivering, this is what he ran on and the alternative was so bad people voted for it.  
 
This health care tax is probably necessary, we need to pay for the things we want.

JessieJay said "Typical. One party yowls about a tax increase by the other party but then thinks it is okay to slap a bigger tax on us once that party comes to power. Premier gives himself a raise when he gets elected and immediately starts yipping about breaking contracts and cutting wages for others. Pallister and his party better take a long hard look at cutting out wastage in the health system before they decide to impose a health tax.     And what kind of stuoid logic is it to say that if milk is too expensive people will drink pop? WATER would be the healthy choice-and surely cheaper than pop. "

is the healthier choice but what you don't realize is that many First Nations do NOT have running water so.... they have to pay to buy bottled water! Do you think that it is cheap like what we can purchase at a place like Superstore? wow!

Is running on deficits like he promised but how much and how long was a big lie now we get into it. If he was to stop spending huge sums of money on causes out of Canada. Funding a terrorist or encouraging the financial leeches in from the U.S that aren't refugees.  
 
Then actually spend that money at home on his own people. Maybe we might be better off and he could actually lower our taxes some, instead of thinking of every creative way possible to take them from us.  
 
No politician is perfect, but when some people start saying I wish we could have Harper back it's bad.  
It's kinda funny you have to look at other sources than the government funded CBC to find out what could actually be going on in Canada, and get the truth of what he is doing as some of this is never brought up on the MSM.

Of course i realize perfectly well that some northern communities do not have runnimg water to drink, and that bittled water is much more expensive than it is here. But do you not realize that those same northern communities pay an equally high price for pop? It isnt that pop is 1/4 the price of bottled water.

Economics is complex, like forecasting weather patterns. During the '08 recession is was well predicted that it would only last a couple years, the stimulus was to survive that storm, then pay it off slowly after things got better, it was just a bridge, it was a safe bet.  
 
This downturn is different in that there is no solid forecasted relief on the horizon, the market of Canada's major economic driver (oil/gas) is changing fast, with the exponential development of electric cars oil demand might plummet faster than even the most pessimistic forecasts currently being put forward.  
 
This is the problem with Trudeau stimulus, is that it's an unnecessary gamble and may very well be a bridge of psuedo-growth to nothing more than increased debt in a period of economic gloom. Time will tell.  
 
Edited by Enfyre, 2017-09-16 23:31:13

Water sourced from a well, sandpoint, or even a fast moving stream or river is usually safe to drink. People survived prior to bottled water. If in doubt boiling will make water sterile, and boiling and condensing the steam will purify even sea water. Really there's no excuse.

Enfyre said "Water sourced from a well, sandpoint, or even a fast moving stream or river is usually safe to drink. People survived prior to bottled water. If in doubt boiling will make water sterile, and boiling and condensing the steam will purify even sea water. Really there's no excuse. "

I assume you only drink water? But it's okay to suggest that First Nations should only drink water? How boring!  
 
Back to the point of high priced meat, if people can only afford to buy wieners rather that nice lean pork or beef than that's what they have to eat, unfortunately.  
 
Not having access to lower fat meats can lead to diabetes, it's not all about sugar consumption.

Some individuals here seem to think that immigrants in Manitoba is one of the main reasons why the health care costs more now. That is totally untrue, and I wonder how someone came up with this.  
 
In order to immigrate to Canada one needs these among other things: 1) Money and 2) Good health condition. If a potential immigrant is sick and could be a burden for Canada healthcare system, there is no way these people immigrate.  
 
Immigrants are also supposed to support themselves which means they must work and/or bring money from abroad. Working immigrants pay the same taxes as the Canadian citizens. However, in case if they don't find a job, they have no other choice but leave the country. Very simple and straightforward.  
 
Also, I would like to point out for those that think that when they pay tax, this money go to support someone else with a health problem. You are complaining only because you are in good health. What would you do if tomorrow you are in a car accident and damage your spine? The treatment is for the next 2 years. So you are unable to work and your private insurance expires within the year. What will happen without the public health care is - you go home untreated.  
 
The healthcare tax is not an easy topic but blaming immigrants and sick people is not a fair game.

Johnbisonbear, I hope you don''t think I''m putting words in your mouth, but I do understand the point you are trying to make, and it has more to do with the cost of nutrition,than water, pop, or milk. Basically it comes down to money that is available for purchasing food. If food prices are to high relative to income, then people''s diets do suffer. I think it is a proven fact that if not enough money is available for food, usually the first part of the diet to suffer is the amount of protein in the diet. Protein always seems expensive compared to carbohydrates or sugars, and people seem to consume more carbohydrates and sugars when forced to decide what to spend a limited income on.  
I agree with your statement that if milk is $12 for a 4 litre container the people are more apt to buy pop, it doesn''t contain protein but it does provide some nutrition as far as sugars, buying bottled water would be a complete waste of money, no protein, no carbs, and no sugars.  
This is not just a problem for people in northern areas but even for the families of the working poor.  
 
Johnbisonbear, if I''m way off with my comment let me know.  
 
Edited by don brown, 2017-09-17 15:03:10

latlive said "Some individuals here seem to think that immigrants in Manitoba is one of the main reasons why the health care costs more now. That is totally untrue, and I wonder how someone came up with this.     In order to immigrate to Canada one needs these among other things: 1) Money and 2) Good health condition. If a potential immigrant is sick and could be a burden for Canada healthcare system, there is no way these people immigrate.     Immigrants are also supposed to support themselves which means they must work and/or bring money from abroad. Working immigrants pay the same taxes as the Canadian citizens. However, in case if they don't find a job, they have no other choice but leave the country. Very simple and straightforward.     Also, I would like to point out for those that think that when they pay tax, this money go to support someone else with a health problem. You are complaining only because you are in good health. What would you do if tomorrow you are in a car accident and damage your spine? The treatment is for the next 2 years. So you are unable to work and your private insurance expires within the year. What will happen without the public health care is - you go home untreated.     The healthcare tax is not an easy topic but blaming immigrants and sick people is not a fair game. "

Aware of immigrating to Manitoba and needing money and a job I did it 17 years ago. All I got from the government in Manitoba was a letter stating they needed me here for A job a Canadian wouldn''t do. I got no free stuff brought for me from the governments. I had to have $10.000 proven by bank statements any time they asked, in a bank account to!  
 
The problem now in Manitoba and other provinces is whats going on with the border jumpers coming in They have "Nothing" some are sick and some are criminals. They are only refugees from the U.S. and being welcomed into canada by fearless on the hill.  
 
This whole program is creating a massive drain we are paying for in our taxes, and they have no intention of getting jobs or fitting in like I and many more had to.  
 
It took me nearly 3 years to get in legally these guys jump the system and get everything given.  
 
There are still guys wanting to come here legally to live work and contribute won''t know for 2-3 years that have money and following the rules.  
 
We started off with 25.000 genuine family refugees from Syria. now look what we got more trouble . Now do you see why people have issues with some of whats going on and these people getting special privilege over Canadian citizens(Yes I am now a Canadian citizen that I paid for to) and legal forign workers.  
There is way more to this whole picture than just what Pallisters upto !  
 
Edited by Farmboy74, 2017-09-17 17:06:35

don brown said "Johnbisonbear, I hope you don''t think I''m putting words in your mouth, but I do understand the point you are trying to make, and it has more to do with the cost of nutrition,than water, pop, or milk. Basically it comes down to money that is available for purchasing food. If food prices are to high relative to income, then people''s diets do suffer. I think it is a proven fact that if not enough money is available for food, usually the first part of the diet to suffer is the amount of protein in the diet. Protein always seems expensive compared to carbohydrates or sugars, and people seem to consume more carbohydrates and sugars when forced to decide what to spend a limited income on.   I agree with your statement that if milk is $12 for a 4 litre container the people are more apt to buy pop, it doesn''t contain protein but it does provide some nutrition as far as sugars, buying bottled water would be a complete waste of money, no protein, no carbs, and no sugars.   This is not just a problem for people in northern areas but even for the families of the working poor.     Johnbisonbear, if I''m way off with my comment let me know.     Edited by don brown, 2017-09-17 15:03:10"

You are one of the most intelligent, kind and thoughtful persons that I ever knew!  
 
Yes, that is what I am trying to get across to people! Food and drink are getting more expensive by the day. It's not just FN that can't afford to buy healthy food and drink.  
 
If I go shopping and a roast is thirty dollars I have to leave it. I have to wait for sales and so do lots of other people, especially if they have children to feed.  
 
If this health care tax goes thru people will suffer! With the cost of Hydro rising, municipal and school taxes going up every year when will it end?  
I don't see an end in sight, things are getting scary!

Johnbisonbear said "    Enfyre said "Water sourced from a well, sandpoint, or even a fast moving stream or river is usually safe to drink. People survived prior to bottled water. If in doubt boiling will make water sterile, and boiling and condensing the steam will purify even sea water. Really there's no excuse. " I assume you only drink water? But it's okay to suggest that First Nations should only drink water? How boring!     Back to the point of high priced meat, if people can only afford to buy wieners rather that nice lean pork or beef than that's what they have to eat, unfortunately.     Not having access to lower fat meats can lead to diabetes, it's not all about sugar consumption. "

Off topic  
 
When the price of basic hard stuff Rye or Vodka is close to the same in Brandon as it is in Brandon this and past Governments has its priorities wrong.  
 
Now I did not tell anyone to live in the middle of no where and they can move to a more economically successful area but if booze can be subsidize in a way from north to south. Then simple basics like milk and bottled water should be a consideration.

Thanks, but you forgot two, opinionated and a blowhard.  
 
On the serious side, I sometimes rant about critical mass, which is where any model will collapse, when I read topics like this with increased taxes, or the topic on the healthcare crisis, I can't help but feel we are in more trouble than anyone wishes to admit. When you hear statistics about 17% of seniors living in poverty it you have to stop and wonder, these people have put in their time and the potential to increase earnings are basically nonexistent. There will be those who will say that seniors should have saved more, but with rates on investments being so low, and like you mentioned, the increase in taxes at nearly every level, paint a very bleak picture. The same can be said of the working poor as well as others.  
As for the health care issue, the workload is likely going to continue to grow for those who are the boots on the ground. Budgets have to take into account the cost of running and maintaining facilities, the cost of new equipment, treatments, and new medicines, and then there is the labor costs of all staff.  
The can has been kicked down the road on government spending, and programs, until we have reached a point that things appear to be unsustainable.  
I read comments where people always wish to make it all political, and yet we can look across the country and see the same problems in all provinces regardless of who is in power, as well as who has been in power, I think there is enough dirt to cover them all.  
 
For myself, it is sad to see history repeating itself worldwide in so many ways, we have mass population migration, we have a very unstable economic situation worldwide, leading to talk of trade wars, we have large numbers of people employed but creating nothing, by that I'm talking excessive administration positions as well as supervisory positions, and then there is bureaucracy, which costs society in so many ways.  
 
Where are we going, I really don't know, all I know is I didn't like history in school, and sometimes I don't like it now.

When I lived in alberta I paid $160 quarterly or $640/yr for a family of four. That was 27 yrs ago so I have no idea what it would be today. I would like the govt to show us why this is necessary. I know they will blame the federal govt and say that they have cut funding by 3%. The truth is the feds are increasing funding by 3%. Hydro rates are increasing as well. It's getting harder and harder to make a decent living in this province.