Discussions

Given today's news with Justin Trudeau violating conflict of interest laws with visits to Aga Khan's island, what are everybody's thoughts on the rigged Canadian/global economy where politicians are just puppets for the interests of the extremely wealthy and powerful interest groups:  
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-ethics-aga-khan-1.4458220  
 

It might be true that the rich control politics, but you control you. That may sound silly but most of us are our own worst enemies. Just in the last few days we had a story on here about the toy of the year, which shows where we are, seems if your not a somebody then your a nobody. We even peddle that idea to our kids with brand name everything, if your not in then you are out. We've all fallen into the trap of keeping up, and that idea costs us dearly, our egos cost much, and way to many times it's done with borrowed money, which make the wealthy more wealth.  
I believe there is still opportunity out there, but it requires sacrifice, and risk, and it seems not many people want to take the risk, or make the sacrifice, and if people lose when they take a chance they tend to blame others, and say that everything is rigged to take your money. Then there's the fact that most people don't believe they can do things, so we pay for having everything done for us, which is something that amazes me given that very few people work more than 40 hours a week.  
Maybe the system is rigged, but maybe we could survive without using the system so much.

corporatocracy and kleptocracy are definitely must-know words.

It starts before birth with the medical system, manipulating mothers, dictating tests, & bad birth practices; daycare; preschool; public schools (especially when kids graduating are illiterate from not teaching them properly); the popular false promise of riches through education (saddling graduates with debt and then no jobs). Death has its own ways of stealing money (and sometimes opportunity) from the next generation too.  
 
Some may rise above, but it is a harsh cycle from which to break free. It can be done, but I believe it takes independent thought, a keenness, and perseverance. Being a cookie cutter follower influenced by peer pressure (at any age) is just settling for less, and where there is settling, there can never be positive change.

Very well said.  
 
Wealth takes work and discipline. We live in a "buy it now" society and borrow if you have to.  
Most people don't realise that the absolute worst purchase that they can make in their lives is a car that is financed. 18 to 25 year olds with $30k loans on a vehicle they won't like in 2 years. How will you ever get ahead of the system if your always paying interest?  
$12 an hour and you buy a new cellphone every 2 years? Smart choice.  
Eating out 3 times a week, Tim's everyday, and shopping for stuff just to make yourself feel good?  
If the system is rigged then stop playing into it.  
 
Marpet

Marpet said "Very well said.     Wealth takes work and discipline. We live in a "buy it now" society and borrow if you have to.   Most people don't realise that the absolute worst purchase that they can make in their lives is a car that is financed. 18 to 25 year olds with $30k loans on a vehicle they won't like in 2 years. How will you ever get ahead of the system if your always paying interest?   $12 an hour and you buy a new cellphone every 2 years? Smart choice.   Eating out 3 times a week, Tim's everyday, and shopping for stuff just to make yourself feel good?   If the system is rigged then stop playing into it.     Marpet "

While I do not disagree with most of what you are saying, your conclusion to “not play into it” is misguided. You are missing the point, that most people are not out buying new cars holding minimum wage jobs. Most people struggle just to find decent housing, and the phone is the escape tool to get away from the reality of an increasingly unaffordable society. For all those under 35 years of age, it was not always this bad. For most of us older than you life used to be pretty good, and while the generation before you squeaked by with decent paying jobs and bought housing in much more affordable times, the privilege and lack of understanding is actually with the older generation, who are now living on false credit they never earned through unsustainable growth in housing over the last decade, which gives them the illusion they worked hard and “earned it”. They never did, and more importantly, if truth were told, most of them would never make it in today’s society. The under 35 generation got completely screwed. And while I made it through, if I were you I would be mad as hell. The economy is rigged, and the only way you will make it is to push back!!! And that starts with not listening to all of us older folks who pretend we made sacrifices when we have no understanding about what it means to hold down 3 low paying jobs, unaffordable housing, and an economy that is owned and controlled by the few. The older generation had it good, but their pure greed and incompetence ruined it for you.

And while Marpet and others in our generation might want to pretend that they worked hard and made sacrifices, the truth is that we grew up and became working adults in a period where there was not such unsustainable debt. If you look at a graph of the federal debt, it stays flat until the mid 1970s and then skyrockets:  
 
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/blogs/a-really-quick-history-of-canada-s-federal-debt  
 
This debt is now YOURS, and while people might falsely claim that they worked hard and had the discipline to make it through, the truth is that they only made it by spending money they never had and accumulated debt that the future generation will never be able to repay. Even the interest payments on this debt since 1974 amounts to nearly $2,000 for every man, woman and child, PER YEAR, and rising. So while the older generation now lives on false home equity, their privilege will hit your generation once more when we enter old age and burden you with the debt associated with our medical care.  
 
You cannot sustain an economy through a mountain of student debt, unaffordable housing, and no jobs (other than minimum wage service jobs). While many in the older generation started families in their early to mid 20's, most now won't start until well into their 30's (if at all).  
 
Marpet, your criticism of the younger generation buying phones every 2 years and eating out at Tim Hortons 3 times a day ... did you ever think that if you were holding down 2 to 3 minimum wage jobs, and realised that even then you would likely never qualify for a mortgage, that you would come to the conclusion that maybe your best option would be to spend what little you had to bring some joy to your life given your very limited options. I don't blame them in the least. We live in an escape based society, and technology has become that escape. When the real world isn't working out for your in a way that you can see a real future, maybe playing video games and becoming immersed in an alternative world becomes your next best option. Just saying ... cause the privilege of the older generation and misunderstanding on the challenges faced by today's youth, is getting really old.

The economy has been rigged since the beginning of time and it will always be. The best you can do is make smart choices.  
 
100 years ago we were riding horses and using out houses. Overall the net benefit is still positive.

A lot of people are bound to fail as a result of their psychology/outlook to the world. If you believe the world to be rigged against you, it will be. If you believe you will fail, you will. Inaction has a 100% failure rate. It's a personality of laziness, self-doubt, excuses, and blame. They are like 2 dimensional lifeforms unable to see and take advantage of the 3 dimensional world of opportunity that exists all around them, this is Canada, not North Korea.  
 
People who get ahead have confidence and vision, make realistic goals and easy step by step process to get there, and they work at it everyday, whether it be a goal of academics or entrepreneurism. I believe if you stripped a self-made wealthy individual of all their assets, that if they willed it most would be wealthy again, their biggest asset is not their material money, but their personality.

Should also say that there are many forms of success in life, and true wealth is happiness.

Inflation going through the roof, wages going no where (unless you’re at the top). Good bye middle class and our economy.

Enfyre, it strikes me comments that try to suggest that being in a situation of holding down 2-3 jobs and still barely being able to make ends meet is - as you describe - "laziness, self-doubt, excuses, and blame".  
 
The point of my post was not that you could not make it, but was simply that it is becoming much more difficult to get by when governments remain incompetent and corrupt, and look after the interests of themselves and the wealthy instead of everybody else. For instance, look at Manitoba Hydro. A Crown corporation whose mandate was supposed to supply affordable energy to Manitoba citizens and businesses, is now seeking a near 50% increase in rates over the next few years to help pay for their mismanagement, and those increases won't even put a dent in what they are up against. Not even close!!! A single power dam whose project costs have ballooned to nearly $25 billion dollars. This is a Crown asset owned by Manitobans, but the corporation is virtually bankrupt!!! And while you may think this is OK, in a province of 1 million people that is a per capita debt of nearly $25,000 for every man, woman and child. A family of 4 has just been saddled with a $100,000 debt as a part of what they owe on this project, a project that will never - ever - see the recovery of these funds. So while Manitoban's shut their eyes and cover their ears and pretend that everything is OK, it's not. We are entering a world where we are approaching a state of economic collapse, because the greedy politicians represent the wrong people and fail to understand that an economy needs to include EVERYONE. And when people are not working and paying taxes, or contributing in a meaningful way, or deciding to not have children because they cannot afford it, the pyramid scheme eventually reveals itself and comes collapsing down. There are some very fundamental problems with the economic model these days of top down control. Sociopaths like Donald Trump, who keep throwing money to mentally diseased people at the very top who know nothing but "more", and relying on those at the bottom to pay for it, is going to lead to a very painful situation for a lot of people when the Jenga blocks all come crashing down, and the retirement incomes of hard working people who worked entire lifetimes in order to sustain themselves in old age, are no longer there for support. All I am saying is that something has got to give. Politicians being caught in dark hotel rooms with brown bags filled with paper money, or a series of former Prime Ministers with offshore accounts in tax havens (Mulroney, Chretien, Martin) and current politicians who provide repeat massive tax cuts to the very top echelon of society, should really be making people very angry. And if you are not, you really need to get your head out of the sand!!! No amount of "working hard" and having "confidence and vision" and making "realistic goals" will make any person "successful" or provide them with any amount of security because the system is fundamentally rotten at its core.  
 
I think most people - in their gut - feel unease about what I am trying to say. But it's more convenient for most to just let the reality of the situation slide for just one more day. But you need to understand it, and accept ownership of it in order to enact actions to change it.  
 
I have no doubt that people should be thinking about their move during the next federal/provincial elections. And I'm not suggesting that people should be thinking about a repeat of the very limited choices the rigged system provides them (Conservative, Liberal, NDP). I am talking about real change. Canadians need to be thinking about "HOW" to drain the Canadian swamp once and for all (and that is not a statement in support of "Trumpism", but more of rejecting the entire political system all together).

Okay. Thanks for the lecture. I can't really see any points I'm in complete disagreement on, except that long-term forecasting the economic future has historically been a fools errand, a catastrophic collapse or slow deflation as resources run scarce? A 22nd century communist revolution if the middle class completely disappears? Nobody knows, and realistically nobody can stop the global economic machine from barreling forward to whatever fate awaits, or what do you propose? Could you expand a little further on what you mean by "rejecting the entire political system?"  
 
Whatever the case, life goes on, and the same basic timeless psychological principles of achieving life success (in whatever form) remain the same.  
 
Having 3 jobs, if it's a means to an end, they are trying to accomplish something better for themselves, if it's part of their step by step process to bettering their situation then that's part of the admirable psychology I'm talking about, not what you're misconstruing it into. If not then you will hear some form of blame and victimization on how they arrived in that situation.

I don't disagree with anything that you've said (except that I'm criticizing the younger generation) but what can the average person do about the choices that governments make?  
 
Well, I guess be informed and vote.  
 
Reject the entire political system? What kind of Shangri la are you hoping for?  
 
" No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time..." - Langworth  
 
By blaming the older generation for the situation we are in (although correct), it solves nothing. What good is going through life complaining about the cards you've been dealt?  
Their are very few in Canada who aren't capable of rising out of their current situation. I'm not saying it will be easy or that a world of riches awaits but society now seems content with being catered to, regardless of cost. My "criticism" of the youth is that they live beyond their means but in truth, most Canadians live beyond their means. Who doesn't want to have all their hearts desire (I embellish)? For MOST, the simple act of living within their means would ensure better opportunities and less debt later in life. Again, I'm not saying that it would work for all but what do we really have to complain about?  
Thousands, if not millions, would gladly switch places with those of us who feel "ripped off". What do we know of hardship, real hardship, in this country? We fight wars for others in other countries that probably have little to do with their democracy and more to do with our own National security (of Energy). But were safe in our beds.  
 
Some of the numbers are horrible. 4.8 million people in Canada live below the poverty line which is staggering. What are our options?  
 
Get rid of all the politicians? We would be far better off getting politicians out of Industries pocket but hows that going to happen?  
 
The only choice we can make is to vote with our wallets.  
 
Live within your means. Makes choices that lead to long term wealth. Stop buying into the consumer economy and above all quit feeling that your entitled to anything. Your only entitled to what you have the money to buy.  
 
I'm sure that their are many who disagree...  
 
Marpet

If people stop wasting their cash the whole economy, which is based on people spending beyond their means, will collapse. Most jobs out there are in the retail sector, if people stop spending.....

How about the Weston family price fixing bread for over a decade and then when they get caught they "apologize" by offering you not compensation, but a gift card that you can only use in their stores for more price rigged items.  
 
And people will be blindly taking that "gift" without even thinking about it.....talk about sick.  
 
Cue the "but they are giving me something for free I am going to take it" whiners now. THIS is what is wrong with today's economy.

I am a little confused. I am well over 35 so according to your first post I am part of the the "older generation, who are now living on false credit they never earned through unsustainable growth in housing over the last decade, which gives *me* the illusion *I* worked hard and “earned it”.  
 
But in a later post you wrote: "the retirement incomes of hard working people who worked entire lifetimes in order to sustain themselves in old age, are no longer there for support." So in that post are you referring the retirement incomes of today's working generation because the older generation that is nearing retirement or already retired didn't work hard for their retirement income? They were disillusioned and only gained wealth from an unsustainable real estate market remember?  
 
I have lived and worked in other countries where there is rampant poverty and whose governments are/were truly corrupt. People in those countries can only imagine what it would be like to live in a country like Canada and have the opportunities we have.  
 
Our governments are far from perfect and there are examples of corporate misdoings on a far more regular basis than there should be. Fortunately we live in a country where we can enact change with our voices and our votes. We also live in a country where you have the freedom to choose to live elsewhere if you feel this country is doomed for economic failure.  
 
After being away for a few years and returning to Canada the first words out of my mouth were "Wow, we have it good in this country". But I may be wrong, after all at my age I have apparently grown up privileged and lack understanding.  
 
Happy Holidays everyone

Midge,  
 
As stated, I consider myself to be in the same generation of people who grew up in an era where we had it really good. I have had the same experiences overseas as you, and have seen the extreme poverty first hand in most parts of the world. But it strikes me that through those experiences you don't seem to connect the fact that the reason we have it so good here, and they have it so bad there (from a poverty perspective) is that our nation's history is that WE control the financial markets that filter the real profits back to our society, leaving the environmental destruction and slave wages for them to mop up. Yes, that's our history, and it continues. And so while you come back home and think you have it so good here, that may be true but the only reason you have it so good here is because of how we treat people there.  
 
But there has been a shift, most notably here, over the last maybe 30 years (as far as I can tell). We are having a corporate takeover here, and wealth and income is beginning to severely erode our institutions and our quality of life here. And while you may not recognise it, this society is on a fast track to becoming what "offended" (and I use that word loosely) you there. In this context, "offend" refers to your description of "rampant poverty and whose governments are/were truly corrupt". Yes it exists there, and through my life experiences I can tell you that it is taking strong hold here. Our governments have never been so corrupt (and I'm not saying that it never existed before) and the rules of engagement, and the line between government officials and private business interests are becoming ever increasingly blurred. The end result, I'm afraid, is that you may yet return back to this country, and ask yourself "whatever happened to the country I once knew".  
 
The youth today are the ones facing that struggle, in a very serious way. Yes, many will make it but those individuals will more than likely not make it on their own. Their success will likely be largely attributed to the wealth of their parents, who in some cases may come from privileged backgrounds who can afford to help them through, or who will leave large inheritances to their children to ease the burden. But there is increasingly becoming another segment of society (the division between the rich, and the poor) who have much larger struggles and who will likely never make it.  
 
In my view, life should not be such a struggle. There should be enough to go around. I will be clear that it offends me that we have a capitalist model that allows certain individuals with money, to game the system and keep the rest down through ownership of politicians. This is very real. Politics should be about people, and about keeping a fair system so that everybody can have an opportunity for success.  
 
In my life, if you owned millions you were very rich. Now, it's billions and soon becoming trillions. I think it's fair to say that most people, when it really comes down to it, have never really considered how much money a billion dollars really is. To be clear, 1 billion dollars is equal to one thousand million dollars. Many people have much more. Take for instance, the Koch brothers in the US. They have an estimated net worth of 90 billion dollars. That is equal to ninety-thousand-million dollars. And I know for certain that many people around the world have more. At what point is the capitalist model something becomes inherently dangerous in the perversity in what it actually allows? In most of those cases, the wealth is earned because of a taxation system in which the secretary who goes to work 40 hours per week and pays FULL, WAGE INCOME taxes on a salary, while the guy who already is worth ninety-thousand-million dollars pays much less in taxes because they own the politicians who give them that advantage? In many cases, the working stiff pays up to half of their meagre salary in taxes, while the billionaire pays nothing? How messed up is that? Whether you will acknowledge it or not, we live in a failed state, because people bury their heads in the sand because they don't want to deal with this. They want to let it slide, because they feel so dis-empowered to do anything about it. I think it's time that this society start to talk about how to deal with this, or the country you return back to will soon become the one you just came from. Understand your privilege, and consider giving a helping hand to those in need. It pains me to hear older people talk about a "lazy" younger generation, when it is the older generation that were born in an era that made their life possible, but are the ones who are ultimately responsible for the destruction of this middle class.

This is going a little off topic, but there is a recent interview I watched by a US war reporter Sebastian Junger who talked about tribalism and the shortcomings of modern society. I would encourage people with a little time and interest in the philosophy of "community", to watch it and to then question what kind of a society Canadians are really living in, and the direction we are ultimately headed.  
 
https://www.ted.com/talks/sebastian_junger_our_lonely_society_makes_it_hard_to_come_home_from_war  
 
And if you get something from that video, well then there is also a longer version in an interview with Joe Rogan that is also interesting: